Feedback: Change Atronach to permanent pet

Valrien · September 2018

Pet that takes up your Ult slot just like Warden pet.

Summon Storm Atronach:
-Cast Time 2.5 Seconds
"Summon a storm atronach to fight by your side. The atronach zaps the closest enemy, dealing 397 Shock Damage every 1 second.

Once summoned, you can activate Storm's Fury for 100 Ultimate, causing the Atronach to explode dealing 1717 Shock Damage to all nearby enemies.

Every time Storm's Fury is activated, an ally can activate the Charged Lightning Synergy to gain Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25%"

Summon Greater Storm Atronach:
-Storm's Fury deals (85%/90%/95%/100%) more damage to targets under 20% health

Summon Air Atronach
-Storm's Fury changed to Raging Winds, and now deals Physical damage.

This is just a very rough draft regarding what could be done with it. The main part of the idea is to remove the duration of the Atronach and make it a permanent companion like Warden's bear. More ideas would always be welcome. The biggest part of this I think would be that the atronach would need to have its size reduced so Sorcs don't become invulnerable in PvP due to LOS.

EDIT: Changed the idea for the morphs and added the Charged Lightning Synergy. Another way to go about it would be to add Charged Lightning to the Greater Storm Atronach and take away the execute damage.

crazy_catman21 · September 2018

No

Valrien · September 2018

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

DeadlyRecluse · September 2018

Not a fan. No need for both pet ults to behave the same way, one's a nice fire-and-forget ult, the other is a constant pet...that's fine.

Valrien · September 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Not a fan. No need for both pet ults to behave the same way, one's a nice fire-and-forget ult, the other is a constant pet...that's fine.

Well, Sorc has always had the option of being "the pet class." It's just...the pets haven't been that great.

Since Warden doesn't have any other permanent pets I honestly think that the functionality of the two ults should be swapped. That way they have more of a "summon all of the forces of nature in my time of need" and Sorc have a "feel the wrath of my daedric army" feel.

crazy_catman21 · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.

Valrien · September 2018

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.

I mean if you've got 10 people chasing you then chances are you probably shouldn't survive anyways...

Especially if even one of them is good.

Plus, slotting 3 pets would come with a huge sacrifice, as you'll need to take up 6 slots with them (2 of which are your ults, so you give up huge skills like Dawnbreaker, Temporal, and Meteor) and you'll only have access to 6 active skill slots.

With this setup a regular Sorc build in PvP would look like this:
1. Destructive Reach
2. Crystal Fragments
3. Hardened Ward
4. Volatile Familiar
5. Twilight Matriarch
U. Greater/Charged Storm Atronach

1. Mages' Wrath
2. Daedric Prey
3. Streak
4. Volatile Familiar
5. Twilight Matriarch
U. Greater/Charged Storm Atronach

So you'd definitely be making some huge sacrifices to run those pets.

DeadlyRecluse · September 2018

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.

So, at one point, as a joke, I ran a PvP group of 5 petsorcs, all with familiar and twilight. It was pretty obnoxious.

Aeslief · September 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.

So, at one point, as a joke, I ran a PvP group of 5 petsorcs, all with familiar and twilight. It was pretty obnoxious.

Don’t forget to wear Maw of the Infernal too, for maximum visual obstruction.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2018

Nah, I'd like it to have some measure of mobility, but constant presence is a bit much. Plus, you'd have to give up a second Ult slot.

It's visually obnoxious as it is (kinda should be), and it makes one hell of an entrance.

It's good the way it is.

jaws343 · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

The problem here is you would have to actually nerf the Storm Atro in order for this to even be possible. And why would anyone want the Storm Atro nerfed? It is already extremely powerful. Mine has a tooltip of around 140-150K and during a dummy parse I can drop it twice, and sometimes 3 times. That is 300-450K damage over a parse without taking into account combat buffs and just looking at the base tooltip. There is no way a permanent pet would be allowed to produce that much damage in the same time frame. I'd rather not take that nerf. Plus, it is a cheap enough ult as it is. And, while it is single target, it can be redirected or locked on to a new opponent when the first one dies.

Valrien · September 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Nah, I'd like it to have some measure of mobility, but constant presence is a bit much. Plus, you'd have to give up a second Ult slot.

It's visually obnoxious as it is (kinda should be), and it makes one hell of an entrance.

It's good the way it is.

That's why I thought it should be smaller. And the summoning animation could stay the same.

It definitely shouldn't be as big as it is as a permanent summon. It should be more like a regular Atronach mob than a boss Atronach.

Plus in PvE and PvP you don't really need the second ult slot. Most Sorcs just backbar Temporal in PvP, and in PvE a lot of Sorcs just use the Destruction Ult for Ancient Knowledge.

So I think giving up the Ult slot isn't a huge deal, but still a big enough sacrifice to make you think about it.

Valrien · September 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

The problem here is you would have to actually nerf the Storm Atro in order for this to even be possible. And why would anyone want the Storm Atro nerfed? It is already extremely powerful. Mine has a tooltip of around 140-150K and during a dummy parse I can drop it twice, and sometimes 3 times. That is 300-450K damage over a parse without taking into account combat buffs and just looking at the base tooltip. There is no way a permanent pet would be allowed to produce that much damage in the same time frame. I'd rather not take that nerf. Plus, it is a cheap enough ult as it is. And, while it is single target, it can be redirected or locked on to a new opponent when the first one dies.

It would still have a pretty significant Ult. The Ult itself would be cheaper than the current one and would just do bursts of damage. You could even make it damage pulses like the Volatile Familiar, similar to the enrage of the AA final boss Atros.

SilverIce58 · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Pet that takes up your Ult slot just like Warden pet.

Summon Storm Atronach:
-Cast Time 2.5 Seconds
"Summon a storm atronach to fight by your side. The atronach zaps the closest enemy, dealing 397 Shock Damage every 1 second.

Once summoned, you can activate Storm's Fury for 100 Ultimate, causing the Atronach to explode dealing 1717 Shock Damage to all nearby enemies."

Summon Greater Storm Atronach:
-Storm's Fury deals (85%/90%/95%/100%) more damage to targets under 20% health

Summon Charged Storm Atronach:
-Storm's Fury changes to Storm Charge. Activate Storm Charge for 150 Ultimate to give (1/2/3/4) nearby allies Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25%

This is just a very rough draft regarding what could be done with it. The main part of the idea is to remove the duration of the Atronach and make it a permanent companion like Warden's bear. More ideas would always be welcome. The biggest part of this I think would be that the atronach would need to have its size reduced so Sorcs don't become invulnerable in PvP due to LOS.

If it was a pet instead of a fire-and-forget style ult, then it would make more sense to make one morph a magicka summon (greater storm atro) and the other a stamina summon (greater air atronach) that gives allies major berserk or whatnot.

Valrien · September 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Pet that takes up your Ult slot just like Warden pet.

Summon Storm Atronach:
-Cast Time 2.5 Seconds
"Summon a storm atronach to fight by your side. The atronach zaps the closest enemy, dealing 397 Shock Damage every 1 second.

Once summoned, you can activate Storm's Fury for 100 Ultimate, causing the Atronach to explode dealing 1717 Shock Damage to all nearby enemies."

Summon Greater Storm Atronach:
-Storm's Fury deals (85%/90%/95%/100%) more damage to targets under 20% health

Summon Charged Storm Atronach:
-Storm's Fury changes to Storm Charge. Activate Storm Charge for 150 Ultimate to give (1/2/3/4) nearby allies Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25%

This is just a very rough draft regarding what could be done with it. The main part of the idea is to remove the duration of the Atronach and make it a permanent companion like Warden's bear. More ideas would always be welcome. The biggest part of this I think would be that the atronach would need to have its size reduced so Sorcs don't become invulnerable in PvP due to LOS.

If it was a pet instead of a fire-and-forget style ult, then it would make more sense to make one morph a magicka summon (greater storm atro) and the other a stamina summon (greater air atronach) that gives allies major berserk or whatnot.

I'm fine with this. I was just doing a quick write-up to present the idea.

I'm totally on board with a stam pet, especially because Stam Sorc's theme is all about wind and physical damage.

AlnilamE · September 2018

Aeslief wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

No

Explain?

I don’t wanna be outnumbered in pvp & 1 of the 10 ppl chasing me has an Atro, familiar & twilight. That sounds awful.

So, at one point, as a joke, I ran a PvP group of 5 petsorcs, all with familiar and twilight. It was pretty obnoxious.

Don’t forget to wear Maw of the Infernal too, for maximum visual obstruction.

And Tinkerer!

Mephisto939 · September 2018

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Valrien · September 2018

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

Valrien · September 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Tryxus · September 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

From another thread:

LiquidPony wrote: »

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

Good news: we're now the 2nd worst. w00t

Valrien · September 2018

Tryxus wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

From another thread:

LiquidPony wrote: »

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

Good news: we're now the 2nd worst. w00t

I think that the benefits of using Elemental Weapon far outweigh the benefits of the Asylum weapon if I'm being perfectly honest. The Spell Orb passive adds nice DPS and the Clairvoyance passive is paramount to Sorc's already-weak sustain. Plus it gives a random status effect so the effect is already a watered-down version of the Asylum staff.

I know I'm not actually responding to you @Tryxus but I do think that the Asylum staff isn't terribly important to Sorc.

What I'm not entirely sure about though is whether one should be using Mother's Sorrow or Burning Spellweave on Sorc.

I would think Burning Spellweave since they're more Spell Damage oriented.

D0PAMINE · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

Valrien · September 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

And that makes them irrelevant?

They are no less important than you, and most of the time those types of players are HUGE supporters of the game.

MashmalloMan · September 2018

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration built in to the class. Negate Magic and Overload don't synergize well with stamina and even tanks/healers.

We don't need more niche skills.

Valrien · September 2018

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content.

The original ability doesn't have a stamina option. I just tried to stay as faithful as possible in a hastily-written post. If you read further you will see someone proposed Air Atronach as one morph and I was quite pleased with how that would turn out.

Plus...it's just kinda one of those things where when people think "Sorcerer" they think "magic"...

Anyways, I'm okay with being in that situation since Sorcerers only use one of their ult slots anyways. You just have to make the ult good enough to be worth slotting Force Pulse instead of Elemental Weapon/losing Dawnbreaker on the front.

Warden does more DPS than Sorc anyways

SilverIce58 · September 2018

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration.

We don't need more niche skills.

I think a stamina morph of the fire and forget style would work well. It becomes an air atronach, does physical damage, scales off of whatever physical damage scales off of (stamina? I don't play stamina classes that often, but i assume its stamina), and while the storm atro cannot move, the air atro can and gives a boost to your allies' damage or something similar to what charged atro does. Sorcs could use more stamina abilities for more variety.

Valrien · September 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

As always, sorc threads not addressing stamina as an option.

I use the storm atronach and I'm patiently waiting a physical dmg morph if ZoS would listen to class feedback. So no thanks, Sorc's are tired of double barring things, magicka, stamina and tanks alike. Your proposal would place you in the same situation wardens are where they're best dps (just meets other classes) is done with a pet that doesn't work well in end-game content and takes up your ult slots. You can get the atro to get 40%+ uptime. That's awesome and doesn't require double barring.

Edit; TBH I didn't read every message above as I'm at work. Looks like someone brought up stamina as an option. I still think this would really hurt all options for magicka/stamina. Fire and forget works much better because you can back bar the ability. Becomes easier to move to another location for the next fight or w.e you need. Don't like the double barring and want to get away from that. You add a bear esque atro morph and I will no longer touch the ability affectingly giving stam sorc's absolutely zero ult options that work with cp/passives/penetration.

We don't need more niche skills.

I think a stamina morph of the fire and forget style would work well. It becomes an air atronach, does physical damage, scales off of whatever physical damage scales off of (stamina? I don't play stamina classes that often, but i assume its stamina), and while the storm atro cannot move, the air atro can and gives a boost to your allies' damage or something similar to what charged atro does. Sorcs could use more stamina abilities for more variety.

If I'm being honest, the biggest thing Sorcerer needs is a passive rework since most of them are useless for Magicka and even less are useful for Stamina.

After that they need an active skill rework to make pets better, give a spammable (preferably a Dark Magic spammable to work with Blood Magic), give them a DoT or two (how about increase Haunting Curse to 6 seconds and make it a DoT with a burst at the end...that way it also fits better into the Sorc rotation of Liquid -> Blockade -> Curse), and make the Atronach a proper summon.

I'd also like Frags and Streak to be un-nerfed and shields to be buffed.

Any combination of these would be nice. All of them would be great, with proper balancing applied to not make all of these changes together OP.

D0PAMINE · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

And that makes them irrelevant?

They are no less important than you, and most of the time those types of players are HUGE supporters of the game.

Theyre not irrelevant, they can complete any in game content. I have a magicka and stamina version of all classes, everything in this game is important

Valrien · September 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Buff the most OP class in the game? No thanks.

Literally does the lowest magicka DPS in PvE and is a one-trick pony in PvP but okay...

Mag wardens would like a word with you

FeaR Turbo would like a word with you

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeDDHEs3HuIKIxZNpcjCjA

Sorcs are fine. Dummy parses shouldn't influence buffs or nerfs. A good player who plays their class well can still do any content in the game. Leaderboard trial runs arr an exetremely small player base.

And that makes them irrelevant?

They are no less important than you, and most of the time those types of players are HUGE supporters of the game.

Theyre not irrelevant, they can complete any in game content. I have a magicka and stamina version of all classes, everything in this game is important

You implied that people who do the upper-end of endgame content are a small player base and are therefore less relevant despite being larger supporters of the game than even a lot of casual players. I would say every player who pays for the game in some way shape or form matters.

I.e., every class can clear, but not every class can compete. Every class should be able to both clear and compete.

Sorc has the lowest DPS and very little to make up for it that can't just be shoved onto a healer. While they can clear content, this is still a fundamental problem that should somehow be addressed.

I'd be okay with having the lowest DPS if I had some utility to make up for it outside of a single synergy

I think my biggest pet peeve is that Sorc actually does feel like a watered-down Nightblade, and I was hoping with this pet change that it would maybe carve out its own definitive style in PvE

NyassaV · September 2018

Can it move?