What to do about Ghost Traders?

Kuramas9tails · June 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Ghost traders are becoming a big problem. this week there were 4 of them in Wayrest, 1 in in Rawl, 2 in clockwork. A few weeks ago there were 4 in Evermore. These people make fake guilds, bid on traders than sell to the highest bidder and once they get their money they disband the guild making the trader available to anyone for 10k. This just isn't right. It has jacked up the price of traders and makes it hard fir the smaller meduim guilds to get traders. There is an easy fix. If a guild disbands the trader should remain empty until the following week.

I totally agree on the last part. Make the trader unusable. Or give it to the second highest bider. I don't buy from the guild if I know it was a ghost and they bought it. They get none of my gold.

Tandor · June 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »

Everyone complains about these... but if you're in a major trading guild you would complain a lot more if your guild didn't have a trader for the week.

Not really...Happened to us a few times. We don't get our trader, nothing changes. We still post to our guild store, and make sales...to guildmates. Although, when we didn't have a trader, all sales were posted at a "discount" since only guild could buy. Once we got our trader back, all discounted sales that were left were pulled and posted back at market price.

I think the easiest way to fix the ghost trader issue is to lock traders at time of "purchase" if the guild disbands before the week is up, the NPC should despawn until the next cycle.

All that will do is enable the big trading guilds to close down all the other spots but theirs.

AlnilamE · June 2018

The simplest solution would be not to allow a guild to disband if they are holding a trader. They have to wait till their contract with the trader is up before they can disband.

Xepla · June 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

The simplest solution would be not to allow a guild to disband if they are holding a trader. They have to wait till their contract with the trader is up before they can disband.

Either this, or make the trader inactive after a guild disbands.

Cryptical · June 2018

I dont think the purpose of a ghost trader is as a backup.

Think it through. A guild hires their main trader site and never aims to lose it. Bidding on a second location with enough cash to win it against competition - that cash would be better put to use simply being added to the bid for the main site.

Then there’s the issue of use of the second location. A guild uses a sock puppet to hire a second spot, and then lets it go empty. Then they hire it again, still leaving it empty. And again for a third week, and a fourth week, and a fifth week, left with a bare bones stock of items the whole time. Do we actually see that happening in the game? No, we do not see that, even though that’s the sort of thing that would happen if guilds were hiring backup locations.

Therefore, there must be some other reason for those odd guilds that have a trader and nearly empty shelves.

I propose that someone in those guilds may have been testing the waters... putting in exploratory bids... experimenting with the trader bid process... and didn’t expect to actually win a trader.

Lyss1991 · June 2018

Androconium wrote: »

So, where are they getting these 50 members on an Adhoc Basis? Most people in the game, at least those in trading guilds, are full up on their guild rosters.

There is a cartel of guilds on the EU server that will have no difficulty creating a new 50-player guild from existing staffers.
Their divine wisdom and inside trading skills leave them with complete control.of.the.net.

Actually, They make alt accounts. You can make up to 16 accounts per playstation. Divide that by 4 people, And it ends up being less than that. Thats how they do it. All you need is base game access to join a trading guild.

Lyss1991 · June 2018

This is a huge issue on PS4 NA. Nothing will be done about it. People have been complaining for years. The prices of stalls have skyrocketed and are more expensive than ever! A guild im in lost a 13 mil bid in Elden Root to a ghost trader..Thats ridiculous!

DragonRacer · September 2018

Remains a problem on PS4 NA. Seeing more and more ghosts every week. Last night, Rawl'kha had 4 out of 5 traders be bought by ghosts. I haven't logged on yet today to see which guilds got bullied into paying their blood money or got desperate enough to.

It's driving bid prices into dumb levels. I find it cute a certain somebody said earlier in the thread that not being allowed to have ghosts would drive up trader bids. Sweetheart, trying to compete against the ghosts is doing the same darn thing.

Saucy_Jack · September 2018

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if your guild depends on tactics like this to bring business in, you're not a top-tier guild, or even a good guild. A top-tier guild would be able to pull in the numbers it needs without this tactic.

Tan9oSuccka · September 2018

Lyss1991 wrote: »

This is a huge issue on PS4 NA. Nothing will be done about it. People have been complaining for years. The prices of stalls have skyrocketed and are more expensive than ever! A guild im in lost a 13 mil bid in Elden Root to a ghost trader..Thats ridiculous!

I agree. Dues for the cabal guilds went from 5, to 10 and are at up to 15K per week.

I know there’s a lot of hard work done by GMs, but I’m sure buying those extra stalls isnt cheap.

Mettaricana · September 2018

Global trade house + alphabetical search option end of story be rid of all traders and guild dues.

Armatesz · September 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Global trade house + alphabetical search option end of story be rid of all traders and guild dues.

For how I see how things are going... I think a global trade house would be a benefit to eso, as well as a search option.

TwIsTeDReDQuEeN · September 2018

This is a HUGE problem on xbox NA as well!! I was going to do a write up but nice to see someone else beat me to it. We need to bring more awareness to this issue as its a recent one that has become standard practice among traders as of late. I run a small and fast growing housing guild on xbox na and we tried getting our guild a small “out of the way” trader to test the waters ect.... lost the bid to a ghost guild and when we went to look around at other “wilderness” traders we found the same thing! All taken by a dummy guild with zero items OR less than 20 items all by the same gt. This is becoming ridiculous that major trading guilds are monopolozing the markets. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom look into how we can fix this issue as it is hindering smaller guilds from being able to use an in game function!! Tia!

Jhalin · September 2018

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

AlnilamE · September 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Global trade house + alphabetical search option end of story be rid of all traders and guild dues.

And a 35% marketplace tax to work as a gold sink?

Either way, no.

The solution to this problem is to make it impossible for a guild to disband if they hold a trader.

DragonRacer · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

“Find a trader elsewhere”, you say, as the big guilds’ ghosts buy up those traders that ARE elsewhere.

The heck do you think we have been TRYING to do?

It’s getting to the point that we aren’t even talking about “prime” spots anymore. Ghosts are now starting to eat up lower-tier cities. Unless we’re suddenly calling places like Riften, Windhelm, and Bandaari as being equal level to Rawl’kha or Vivec City. :I

Tan9oSuccka · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

That’s exactly what it is.

Said guilds are putting in bids in out of the way places as well.

I sure wouldn’t want to be a startup GM these days.

Sylvermynx · September 2018

I really dislike the lack of an open AH. That's probably the main thing I don't like about this game.... I have bought from guild traders early in my playing career here, but I don't any more. And won't.

The best thing about WoW and RIFT was the open AHs.

generalmyrick · September 2018

auction house would be so fun. like madden's auction house...people that try to corner the market are dumb, because they can't buy enough of the stuff that's coming out to corner...

its a myth or fantasy bias folks have. oh well! :-)

Sylvermynx · September 2018

Well, I never spent any time trying to corner any market on the AH! I made plenty of gold just slightly undercutting prices for stuff I wasn't ever going to need, and I made a few HUGE killings with stuff I looked up and discovered was really worth a lot of gold.

And then I quit WoW - leaving all that gold just sitting there. It's still just sitting there. Ditto RIFT, though I didn't have as much there because I wasn't in that game as long, and I spent most of the gold I made on the AH building and furnishing houses....

Jhalin · September 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

That’s exactly what it is.

Said guilds are putting in bids in out of the way places as well.

I sure wouldn’t want to be a startup GM these days.

Strange how I’ve yet to encounter any ghost guilds then. Sister guilds? Sure, plenty, because they get used. Theyre overflow of larger guilds because there’s always someone wanting to join. Of all the 6 or so trade guilds I’ve ever been in, exactly 1 had mandatory dues, unless you count “sell enough so we can pay for our kiosk from sale taxes, otherwise just send an officer x” as a due. I only dropped any of them because I got better at spreading sales out instead of mass listing on every store, which gave me room to pick up other types of guilds.

If a trade guild has that much gold to throw at extra kiosk spots, let em. It’s not sustainable for any significant period of time, especially if these woe-is-me other guilds stop paying this supposed trader fee to the ghost guilds.

Erraln · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

That’s exactly what it is.

Said guilds are putting in bids in out of the way places as well.

I sure wouldn’t want to be a startup GM these days.

Strange how I’ve yet to encounter any ghost guilds then. Sister guilds? Sure, plenty, because they get used. Theyre overflow of larger guilds because there’s always someone wanting to join. Of all the 6 or so trade guilds I’ve ever been in, exactly 1 had mandatory dues, unless you count “sell enough so we can pay for our kiosk from sale taxes, otherwise just send an officer x” as a due. I only dropped any of them because I got better at spreading sales out instead of mass listing on every store, which gave me room to pick up other types of guilds.

If a trade guild has that much gold to throw at extra kiosk spots, let em. It’s not sustainable for any significant period of time, especially if these woe-is-me other guilds stop paying this supposed trader fee to the ghost guilds.

If you play on PC, you will not see this bidding tactic very often, if at all. The only time I can recall something similar happening on PCNA in the last year is when a certain guild... Electric Sales Experts, let's call them... moves from one spot to another, they'll often leave a shadow behind them to block competitors from picking up their old location for a pittance. Very effective for making certain the guild that gets outbid will lose their weekly sales.

It's the ease of account creation on consoles which lets throwaway guilds be made simply. Different story on PC.

Tan9oSuccka · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Are we really calling top-tier trade guilds a “cabal”? Really?

Take it down a notch, they aren’t some allreahing power >_<

Find a trader elsewhere. Lots of people won’t even shop from “prime spots” because the prices are a chunk higher than they can find somewhere else.

That’s exactly what it is.

Said guilds are putting in bids in out of the way places as well.

I sure wouldn’t want to be a startup GM these days.

Strange how I’ve yet to encounter any ghost guilds then. Sister guilds? Sure, plenty, because they get used. Theyre overflow of larger guilds because there’s always someone wanting to join. Of all the 6 or so trade guilds I’ve ever been in, exactly 1 had mandatory dues, unless you count “sell enough so we can pay for our kiosk from sale taxes, otherwise just send an officer x” as a due. I only dropped any of them because I got better at spreading sales out instead of mass listing on every store, which gave me room to pick up other types of guilds.

If a trade guild has that much gold to throw at extra kiosk spots, let em. It’s not sustainable for any significant period of time, especially if these woe-is-me other guilds stop paying this supposed trader fee to the ghost guilds.

It’s really bad on PS4 NA. About a year ago I went around and counted about a dozen fake guilds with nothing for sale.

I gave up after a couple hubs.

Facefister · September 2018

And people whine and moan about the so-called "economy". This game needs a global guild trader for everyone.

Sylvermynx · September 2018

Facefister wrote: »

And people whine and moan about the so-called "economy". This game needs a global guild trader for everyone.

AKA global AH.

Oh lordy. Can you imagine the angst from the guilds? And the number of people who would quit.... Nope. Ain't gonna happen.

Facefister · September 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

And people whine and moan about the so-called "economy". This game needs a global guild trader for everyone.

AKA global AH.

Oh lordy. Can you imagine the angst from the guilds? And the number of people who would quit.... Nope. Ain't gonna happen.

Who is going to quit? The armchair economists who f**k up prices now and then? Good riddance!

Sylvermynx · September 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

And people whine and moan about the so-called "economy". This game needs a global guild trader for everyone.

AKA global AH.

Oh lordy. Can you imagine the angst from the guilds? And the number of people who would quit.... Nope. Ain't gonna happen.

Who is going to quit? The armchair economists who f**k up prices now and then? Good riddance.

Um. Well. You know, some of these guilds make millions over and above their bids.... If they can't do that the way they have been doing it....

Sure, I think an open global AH is far far better than allowing trading guilds to have a monopoly. But *shrug* - I'm not a trading guild with hundreds of members, all of whom might get their panties in a twist and quit the game if they can't maintain that monopoly.

If the members of those guilds quit the game.... that's not going to make Beth happy. Pretty sure that people leaving in response to a change from guild monopoly to open global AH would leave Beth on the backside of cash-strapped.

AlnilamE · September 2018

Facefister wrote: »

And people whine and moan about the so-called "economy". This game needs a global guild trader for everyone.

No, it doesn't. There are other games for that if that's your thing.

Silver_Strider · September 2018

I do notice a lot of Ghost Traders in major cities on PS4 that I avoid like them like the plague. This is particularly true of Evermore, which always seems to have 2-3 Ghost Traders at a time that I never bother checking out any of the store there anymore since it's pointless to do so. I actually feel bad for any guild that buys into those monopolies because the Ghost Traders have essentially marked Evermore as a No Man's Land that so many people in the 4 guilds I'm currently in say to avoid Evermore Guild Traders entirely, the prices and lack of people that actually go there have killed them as viable options for sale, which also makes me wonder, what exactly is the purpose of the Ghost Traders if they're effectively killing off Traders and have no one that will buy their shops. Back up Trader Location is pointless if the spot has been marred by the community and no one is going to buy traders as a result either.

Jayman1000 · September 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Last night on PS4 NA, there was a Ghost Trader in Elden Root called "Get In My Van". Is there an appropriate way to deal with this? Seems really uncalled for.

Edit: For those who DON'T know what a Ghost Trader is: A Ghost Trader is a guild that bet and paid for a trader, usually in a capitol city, and will sell nothing in their store. The sole purpose of this is to win a spot and sell that spot to someone else to make a profit off of it. Anyone who offers a higher price than what they paid for, the Ghost Trader that owns it will relinquish the spot and let the one who paid them for the trade grab the trader right after.

I don't think anything should be done about that. It's part of the game that any guild with at least 50 members can make bets on hiring a trader. There are no requirements for the motivations behind wanting to hire the trader, neither do I think that there should be. Yes it can be annoying, but so is many a competetive game/sports when your opponent outsmarts you