DocFrost72 wrote: »

Caltrops, ritual of retribution (doubly effective with the templar snare passive), basically do damage. If you have the magicka for it, throw down a puncturing sweeps or two as they walk by and they'll aggro onto you.

If you mean an AOE taunt, sorry. ESO wasn't built around having everything hit the tank. If you can hold onto entire trash packs, that's great! Mark of a really sturdy tank.

That said, you're supposed to (in ESO) taunt the big baddies who pose a danger to your group and try to keep the rest bunched up nice and tight for friendly aoe.

Good ideas, thank you. I think it'd be cool if they added a skill or passive that redirected aggro like other mmos. @Zos Aggro-Redirect or AOE Aggro to Undaunted skill line or even a passive that you could put a couple skill points in.

Brrrofski wrote: »

As long as your group don't run ahead, if you use some sort of aoe, things mainly go for you. Use Pierce armor on the hard hitters in case they go for someone else. The rest should stay on you, but if they don't, no big deal as you long as you taunt the bug hitters.

Caltrops, ritual of retribution, spear shards will all work.

This. As a magicka templar tank I use RoR + Swarm Mother (the most underestimated set for non DK-tanks when it comes to 4-man-stuff).

Storm into trash -> RoR (for initial aggro, the radius is huge, they all should turn to you) -> taunt the big ones and the ranged ones (You have a ranged taunt for this, Swarm Mother will do the rest) -> place a Pierce Armor maybe on the ones with large health pools -> maybe cast a Blazing Shield for some more bang -> rince and repeat -> watch them all dying in 2 x 50k + AoE dps from your DDs (if your DDs are real DDs they wait 2 seconds til you piled up the most mobs and are capable of generating such numbers) -> use repetance and move on.

AoE tanking is possible in ESO, you just need to know how to do it and DDs love it when the tank piles up stuff and stands still. No wasted ressources for misplaced ground dots, full effect of AoE skills.

Sometimes there will maybe stand a lonely ranged add somewhere in the end (pet CC breaks Swarm Mother effect), but who cares as long it is taunted. In really good and dps heavy groups you may make the experience, that your DDs have stuff faster down as Swarm Mother can bring the mobs.

kvlou79 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Caltrops, ritual of retribution (doubly effective with the templar snare passive), basically do damage. If you have the magicka for it, throw down a puncturing sweeps or two as they walk by and they'll aggro onto you.

If you mean an AOE taunt, sorry. ESO wasn't built around having everything hit the tank. If you can hold onto entire trash packs, that's great! Mark of a really sturdy tank.

That said, you're supposed to (in ESO) taunt the big baddies who pose a danger to your group and try to keep the rest bunched up nice and tight for friendly aoe.

Good ideas, thank you. I think it'd be cool if they added a skill or passive that redirected aggro like other mmos. @Zos Aggro-Redirect or AOE Aggro to Undaunted skill line or even a passive that you could put a couple skill points in.

As cool as this would be, I'm quite certain, players would use this skill with say.... Tremorscale..... That would be hilarious, and cancerous, for PvP...

Flameheart wrote: »

Swarm Mother (the most underestimated set for non DK-tanks when it comes to 4-man-stuff).

I actually use this set on my DK tank for some dungeons. (e.g. Blackheart Haven) It pulls things that chains won't, from further distances as well. I've even used it in MoL with some surprised success. With the buff that they gave to the cooldown it's an even better tool to have in a Tank's kit.

kvlou79 wrote: »

I'm a Templar tank and I use a custom "please hit me" build that I created. Problem is, there's not a good way to get crowd aggro. Currently, I cast immovable, radiant aura, then pretty much button mash Pierce Armor. I'm not sure if Radiant Aura is bugged or what, but, in solo play everything heads my way. In dungeons, they run right past me to everyone else. Find it hard to believe that the 3 teammates just damaged all 6-10 mobs when I don't see anything being cast by them. Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on getting crowd aggro other than mashing Pierce? Cuz that's kinda boring.

Sadly, the aggro table was changed a long time ago and that means that initial proximity effects aggro less than some other factors that I am not sure about.

As a solution you could try to deal AOE damage to the enemy group as you begin to encounter them. This may cause some of the enemies to start attacking you without the need to use a taunt. I'm not 100% sure as to when the enemies will switch aggro after such a pull.

I really think tank aggro is broken AF, we get One taunt button that you constantly have to spam and keep up, trying to build aggro on more then that One mob you can basically just flip a coin. I Personally dont know if others in this game are using the only other ability in the game from the Undaunted that taunts or whats going on but I have had taunts wear off much faster then that timer and they always just run around like kiting it is going to work and keep them from getting hit. Then they call you a bad tank.

Thing is I came from a long time play of World of Warcraft and Tank Aggro is what "Tanks" Excelled at, Mainly because they all had some kind of "Stance" or "Aura" that increased threat/aggro generation by several hundred percent this along side of something called "Vengeance" which was a stacking buff that increased your Attack Power meant you hit harder white/physical damage and all of your skills and abilities got progressively stronger allowing you to scale along with your dps. This simple thought or mechanic is completely non-existent in ESO leaving me concerned as a new player about not only my choice in play styles but the future of it.

I really think tanking needs to be really heavily looked at by the ZMO devs and improvements need to be made.

For instance threat generation, multi-strike abilities, AOE abilities and their associated costs, and multi pull mechanics like Fiery Grip and Pierce Armor, Volatile Armor, Inhale, Dark Talons... ect. All of which have great potential for aggro building as tanks for DK's since DPS are not going to be taking these how ever they do little damage and build no threat again leaving tanking feeling bland, engaging, boring and worse of all exhausting.

There almost needs to be a skill line all in its self for threat generation, to either maximize it and increase threat generation or reduce it.

bwc.maneke_ESO wrote: »

I really think tank aggro is broken AF, we get One taunt button that you constantly have to spam and keep up, trying to build aggro on more then that One mob you can basically just flip a coin. I Personally dont know if others in this game are using the only other ability in the game from the Undaunted that taunts or whats going on but I have had taunts wear off much faster then that timer and they always just run around like kiting it is going to work and keep them from getting hit. Then they call you a bad tank.

Thing is I came from a long time play of World of Warcraft and Tank Aggro is what "Tanks" Excelled at, Mainly because they all had some kind of "Stance" or "Aura" that increased threat/aggro generation by several hundred percent this along side of something called "Vengeance" which was a stacking buff that increased your Attack Power meant you hit harder white/physical damage and all of your skills and abilities got progressively stronger allowing you to scale along with your dps. This simple thought or mechanic is completely non-existent in ESO leaving me concerned as a new player about not only my choice in play styles but the future of it.

I really think tanking needs to be really heavily looked at by the ZMO devs and improvements need to be made.

For instance threat generation, multi-strike abilities, AOE abilities and their associated costs, and multi pull mechanics like Fiery Grip and Pierce Armor, Volatile Armor, Inhale, Dark Talons... ect. All of which have great potential for aggro building as tanks for DK's since DPS are not going to be taking these how ever they do little damage and build no threat again leaving tanking feeling bland, engaging, boring and worse of all exhausting.

There almost needs to be a skill line all in its self for threat generation, to either maximize it and increase threat generation or reduce it.

I understand your past experience with tanks in other games, but that's not how tanks work in ESO. Its a deliberate design choice by the devs and unlikely to change.

Tanks need to:
A. Taunt the boss and priority adds, minibosses, 2handers, etc. Those can all be done with just the single target taunts available.

B. Crowd Control all the other adds. You can gain a short time of aggro by hitting adds with an AOE, but they will lose interest if you don't use a crowd control skill to lock down, stun, slow, or pull in the adds. Your goal is to bunch up the mob so your DDs can mow them down.

Your DPS and Healer will be prepared to take a few hits, so it's not like the tank has to taunt the whole mob. You do have to taunt and control the boss placement, but even there, the devs specially made some bosses untauntable. When I tank, I focus on smart battlefield control so my DDs can work efficiently, not just taunting willy-nilly.


Now, in the event that the boss stops paying attention to you and starts focusing on someone else (and it isn't a red phase centurion or Sellestrix) you might keep an eye on that party member to see if they are also using a taunt. Ice Staff Heavy Attack is the usual offender, though I've seen DDs use Inner Fire and once use Puncture. If I see that someone is taunting the boss, I explain they are taunting. Its usually an accident and they are happy to not have to deal with boss aggro. If they don't stop, well, "You taunt it, you tank it!"

It really is a punishment to tank in this game. Tanking trash is a chore due to single taunt and boss (multiple bosses) fights are designed around taunting cooldowns. It isn't fun. It isn't really designed. I would propose for Power Bash to be an AoE taunt. Both of the morphs would be unaffected by this addition. Reverberating Bash is clearly for PvP and taunt has no effect in PvP. Power Slam is a tanking benefitting DPS morph.... so no DPS would (or should) use it in a group PvE environment.

Power Bash
Active
Strike enemy full-force with your shield, dealing 409 Physical Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds. After using Taunt or Charge gain a charge for 2 seconds which makes the next use of Power Bash taunt all targets in the 5m radius for 4 seconds.
One-Handed and Shield Rank 38
3510 Stamina
Instant
5m range
(Enemy)

This is just an example of what could be added. This wouldn't replace Pierce Armor because of the lack of a useful debuff and the length of the taunt. The only other Charge in the game is on a 2H weapon and no DPS is taunting anyway. Adds a bit of versatility to builds and allows for the Bash to actually be useful. Sure, it wouldn't be all that great for a trial boss but its not what its for. Tanking multiple target boss? Well that 4 second taunt isn't going to replace a 15 second taunt and you aren't going to try and charge it just to get a short taunt nor taunt only to taunt only to have to re-taunt. So this would only be useful in trash fights where multi-tanking (WHICH IS HAPPENING ANYWAY ZOS!!!) is a 1 button affair.
Other ideas welcome. Thank you for reading. Just my 2 cents.

Basically Tanking this "Game" is horrible unbalanced, unthought of, lack luster, unimaginative, boring, frustrating, horrible crap!

The ESO Team has done nothing to balance, fine tune, or make tanking anything more then a 1 Button Spamming Machine that has One Bad on it and thats it!

As a tank you cannot Reliably Taunt Multiple Mobs let alone a pack and Hold That Pack for any length of time before Either Your Resources Run out to 0, That Pack decides to just Ignore You and go after the highest DPS or the Healer, Causing that Person to run around like a bloody mad man or a chicken with its head cut off making it all that More Problematic for you as the tank; because you are already at 0 resources (Stam, Magicka) and now your trying to chase something else down!

This whole mechanic is beyond stupid! and it personally pisses me off at every turn and every group dungeon I get into. I really do like this game to a degree but tanking flat out sucks and at lower levels forget it you might as well just dps theres no f'ing point to it at all.

Tanking needs some MAJOR overhaul's done to it, Aggro needs to be fixed, Tanks need a stacking AP buff that stacks as you get hit and take damage, meaning you hit harder over the course of a few seconds in a fight, this would balance out our slow af resource management with constantly having to heavy strike something that already takes way to long to do. Secondly tanks need an Aura or a Stance or literally anything that Increases their currently non-existing threat generation by several thousand percent there by guaranteeing that these stupid NPC actually Attack Us and Not the Healer or some other squish!
Lastly Tanks in general need more/better AOE! I am going back to Skyrim here and I am thinking about those Cloak Destruction Spells; Flame Cloak http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Flame_Cloak Lighting Cloak, Frost Cloak, Whirlwind Cloak.

You could have Flame Cloak be a stack Fire direct damage to Health buff that increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12meters,
You could have Frost Cloak be a Stack direct damage to Stamina that Leechs Stamina and increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12meters
You could have Lightning Cloak be a stack direct damage to magicka buff that leeches Magicka and increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12 meters
You could have Whirlwind Cloak be a stacking buff that increase dodge by X% and increases threat by 2000% every time an enemy misses you.

I mean if you going to have a class like "Tank's" At the Very least you could make them feel useful, distinct and/or different then any other roles instead of some off putting role that does everything any other class does except worse with the exception that tanks are amazing against One Single Melee Target. I have had bosses that even with taunt up they ignore me and just continue to attack random group members, combine that with those group members constantly pulling pack after pack makes you feel irritated and useless to say the least. I personally Am Really Hoping the ZeniMax Team makes some severe changes to how tanking works and feels right now its garbage.

bwc.maneke_ESO wrote: »

Basically Tanking this "Game" is horrible unbalanced, unthought of, lack luster, unimaginative, boring, frustrating, horrible crap!

The ESO Team has done nothing to balance, fine tune, or make tanking anything more then a 1 Button Spamming Machine that has One Bad on it and thats it!

As a tank you cannot Reliably Taunt Multiple Mobs let alone a pack and Hold That Pack for any length of time before Either Your Resources Run out to 0, That Pack decides to just Ignore You and go after the highest DPS or the Healer, Causing that Person to run around like a bloody mad man or a chicken with its head cut off making it all that More Problematic for you as the tank; because you are already at 0 resources (Stam, Magicka) and now your trying to chase something else down!

This whole mechanic is beyond stupid! and it personally pisses me off at every turn and every group dungeon I get into. I really do like this game to a degree but tanking flat out sucks and at lower levels forget it you might as well just dps theres no f'ing point to it at all.

Tanking needs some MAJOR overhaul's done to it, Aggro needs to be fixed, Tanks need a stacking AP buff that stacks as you get hit and take damage, meaning you hit harder over the course of a few seconds in a fight, this would balance out our slow af resource management with constantly having to heavy strike something that already takes way to long to do. Secondly tanks need an Aura or a Stance or literally anything that Increases their currently non-existing threat generation by several thousand percent there by guaranteeing that these stupid NPC actually Attack Us and Not the Healer or some other squish!
Lastly Tanks in general need more/better AOE! I am going back to Skyrim here and I am thinking about those Cloak Destruction Spells; Flame Cloak http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Flame_Cloak Lighting Cloak, Frost Cloak, Whirlwind Cloak.

You could have Flame Cloak be a stack Fire direct damage to Health buff that increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12meters,
You could have Frost Cloak be a Stack direct damage to Stamina that Leechs Stamina and increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12meters
You could have Lightning Cloak be a stack direct damage to magicka buff that leeches Magicka and increases threat by 2000% to all enemies in 12 meters
You could have Whirlwind Cloak be a stacking buff that increase dodge by X% and increases threat by 2000% every time an enemy misses you.

I mean if you going to have a class like "Tank's" At the Very least you could make them feel useful, distinct and/or different then any other roles instead of some off putting role that does everything any other class does except worse with the exception that tanks are amazing against One Single Melee Target. I have had bosses that even with taunt up they ignore me and just continue to attack random group members, combine that with those group members constantly pulling pack after pack makes you feel irritated and useless to say the least. I personally Am Really Hoping the ZeniMax Team makes some severe changes to how tanking works and feels right now its garbage.

There are lots of people who very much enjoy tanking in this game more than WoW.

You basically want to change tanking into WoW tanking. Never going to happen. In this game you have at maximum 12 skills available during combat, not 40.

You also have active dodging and blocking. Those alone make tanking here far more enjoyable for many of us.

Threat is not a thing in ESO at all. You should only ever need to hold a max or 3 or 4 high priority targets. That’s easy to do.

If you enjoy the tanking in other games so much more than this one, your choice should be obvious.