Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

rahlforge wrote: »

I have loved Elder Scrolls games since I was a kid, and this game is no exception. Being able to experience the world of Tamriel is amazing, but then why do I have this sour taste in my mouth?

I just came back from a long hiatus due to the birth of twin boys, to find they added Vvardenfell via the Morrowind DLC...awesome! I can return to my favorite area of Tamriel, because I have Unlimited, right???

Wrong. Very, very wrong. Not only is my Tamriel Unlimited now...well, limited...now my options for even GETTING Morrowind have apparently been hamstrung, as well!

So here's where my frustration begins...I bought what I essentially believed was the base game. Cool. Well now the base game comes standard with Morrowind at the same price I originally bought the base game for. Wait, but that means I should get Morrowind, right? Nope. I still have to buy it separately, and here are my options:

Pay about $30 for enough Crowns to buy it from the Crown store.
Buy the base game AGAIN for $20 (hey, didn't I do that with TU?).
Buy a hard copy of the expansion from Amazon (about $13).

So basically, the most cost-effective option requires me to purchase from an outside source and wait for it to be delivered. I feel like Tamriel Unlimited purchasers got Horse Armored, here. I already bought the base game, and you're now selling the base game packaged with the expansion, but I still have to buy the expansion for more money than it would cost me to just buy the base game AGAIN??? WHAT GIVES???

I have three kids. Game purchases are a rare thing for me, so I am very careful about how and when I buy them, and this, to me, is just an unconscionable way to treat your subscribers. Guess I don't get to go back to Vvardenfell after all...oh, well. Time to crack out my old copy of Morrowind: GOTY, I guess...

is eso your first MMO?

ESO is an mmo, when you buy the base game that is it. As mmo age expansion packs are added that need to be bought. This has been a thing since the early 90s. As the game ages, more so the MMO they tend to pack the game+ expac as new expacs get added. You claim to be on a long break because of the kids. (good parent btw) but no you have to buy the expac. You don't have to buy the game again, just the expac.

best bet is just to pay 2 moths of sub, and get morrowind, that's 30 right there. that way you get the expac, and the sub perks.

Trust me, i'm an MMO vet his is 100% normal and in no way is horse armor from oblivion.

My son wanted to play Word of Warcraft. I didn't even need to buy the game. I could just sub and have access to ALL THE EXPANSIONS except the latest one (Battle for Azeroth). No need to even buy the game or any old expansion. Just a sub 13 euro a month.

and wow is a 15 year old MMO that came out in 2000s if you bought it when it originally came out you had to get each expac as it came out.

Again that is normal for games to drop in price as they age. WoW also added a plex system like eve online has. ff14 still has you buy the game, and each expac as it comes out, which is a newer mmo.

Do some research. You are acting a bit foolish.

Every expansion was free if the next expansion was released as far as i can recall. So all you had to do was wait until the next expansion released, and the previous one would be part of the base game. That has been since the second expansion. I might be wronk though.

very wrong. all they did was drop the price. I played WoW 2 years, and ff11 for 8 years. ff14 for 5 years. (and a good 29 more mmo) all blizz did was lower the price or bundle it. I played WoW in 2006 i had to buy the base game, burning circle and wrath, then cata after. in ff11 i had to buy the base game and expacs when i switched from ps2 to 360.

in ff14 you have to buy the base game and first expac plus the new one. MMO adding the early expacs to bundles is normal doing a price drop is normal.

No company ever just hands you an expac for free, only reason you get morrowind free is they took out the warden class and made morrowind a dlc, with warden being a separate purchase. they down graded it because they bundled it.

again research into how MMO operate would be a good thing, you seem to be very clueless about it and are spreading misinformation.

I've been playing mmo since 2004, i have 30+ mmo under my belt from p2p and f2p. I'm well versed in how they operate.

Well, i also play mmo's since 2004 and played maybe 20+ different mmo's. I never bought any "DLC" or expansion for SWTOR though and i still own them all.

And as i said i might be wrong about WOW as i never played the game myself.

Other mmo's i played mostly didn't get expansion because they died soon or just never received them. The only expansion i ever bought was ""Jump to Lightspeed", "Rage of the Wookies" and "Trials of Obi-wan" for SWG. All of those expansion became part of the base game. JTL went part of the basegame the next year after release of RotW.

And i got the Age of Conan's for free also. Never bought any, got them all under my account.

So no, i don't know how mmo's operate. They all do their own way apparently. Or give the expansions for free eventually because nobody buys it anyway.

Violynne wrote: »

rahlforge wrote: »

Since I'm in a good mood today, I'll even sweeten the news: if you're on XBox NA, send me a message with your gamertag, and I'll gift you Morrowind when I get home this evening.

Consider it a gift for the twins, as I know you'll have your hands tied raising them, leaving you little time to play in your favorite area.

Thank you so much for the warm thoughts! I got lucky today...I was reorganizing some electronics, and found a $25 gift card from my brother I had forgotten about! I already purchased the base game (w/Morrowind) by the time I read your post, but I thank you again for your wonderful offer! I will be sure to message you, anyway, as I am always happy to add a new friend to play with!

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

rahlforge wrote: »

I have loved Elder Scrolls games since I was a kid, and this game is no exception. Being able to experience the world of Tamriel is amazing, but then why do I have this sour taste in my mouth?

I just came back from a long hiatus due to the birth of twin boys, to find they added Vvardenfell via the Morrowind DLC...awesome! I can return to my favorite area of Tamriel, because I have Unlimited, right???

Wrong. Very, very wrong. Not only is my Tamriel Unlimited now...well, limited...now my options for even GETTING Morrowind have apparently been hamstrung, as well!

So here's where my frustration begins...I bought what I essentially believed was the base game. Cool. Well now the base game comes standard with Morrowind at the same price I originally bought the base game for. Wait, but that means I should get Morrowind, right? Nope. I still have to buy it separately, and here are my options:

Pay about $30 for enough Crowns to buy it from the Crown store.
Buy the base game AGAIN for $20 (hey, didn't I do that with TU?).
Buy a hard copy of the expansion from Amazon (about $13).

So basically, the most cost-effective option requires me to purchase from an outside source and wait for it to be delivered. I feel like Tamriel Unlimited purchasers got Horse Armored, here. I already bought the base game, and you're now selling the base game packaged with the expansion, but I still have to buy the expansion for more money than it would cost me to just buy the base game AGAIN??? WHAT GIVES???

I have three kids. Game purchases are a rare thing for me, so I am very careful about how and when I buy them, and this, to me, is just an unconscionable way to treat your subscribers. Guess I don't get to go back to Vvardenfell after all...oh, well. Time to crack out my old copy of Morrowind: GOTY, I guess...

is eso your first MMO?

ESO is an mmo, when you buy the base game that is it. As mmo age expansion packs are added that need to be bought. This has been a thing since the early 90s. As the game ages, more so the MMO they tend to pack the game+ expac as new expacs get added. You claim to be on a long break because of the kids. (good parent btw) but no you have to buy the expac. You don't have to buy the game again, just the expac.

best bet is just to pay 2 moths of sub, and get morrowind, that's 30 right there. that way you get the expac, and the sub perks.

Trust me, i'm an MMO vet his is 100% normal and in no way is horse armor from oblivion.

Not just MMOs, most games which get expansions do this.

I remember getting really lucky with Morrowind (TES III, not the ESO one). I went into town to buy it and discovered that the limited edition of Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker which came with a bonus disc actually was limited (it was the only version I'd seen until then - but suddenly 1/2 the copies on the shelf didn't have it) so I bought that instead and the next month when I went back to get Morrowind the Game of the Year edition was out and I got both expansion packs included for the same price as just the base game cost a month before.

Even then it wasn't a new concept and I wasn't surprised to see them do that, just pleased I hadn't bought it before the new version came out. (First game I remember doing it was Warcraft 2 in 1995/6, I spent so long begging my parents to get it for me that when they finally did it was the version which came bundled with Beyond the Dark Portal.)

Valrien wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The new version of Tamriel Unlimited comes with Morrowind, and since there was never any promise that Tamriel Unlimited was going to be updated, you didn't get cheated. Next year, Summerset zone will probably be added too, so you might keep that in mind. The point is so that completely new players don't have to buy the game, DLC and 2 Chapters in one fell swoop to be caught up.

Now, ESO+ subscribers who were told that Morrowind is a Chapter so you have to buy it for cash because its totally not several DLC crammed together only to later see that Morrowind Chapter actually was a DLC+base game update+upgrade...yeah, they have something to complain about. And they did complain when ZOS announced that.

But the general feeling I've got about the whole thing is this: yeah, ZOS did a shady thing by switching up its marketing scheme without warning. Those of us who complained about the "Chapter" being glorified DLC sold for cash were right. But honestly, I wasn't going to wait a year to get Morrowind as a DLC. I'm not going to wait a year to get Summerset as a DLC. So, practically speaking, what's the point of getting too upset?

If you want to wait, I suggest you wait til next year when Summerset likely gets added to Tamriel Unlimited as well.

most ppl play eso as their first MMO, so they don't understand the "chapter" is an expansion pack, not dlc. MMO never had dlc, till the dlc craze of the ps3 and 360.

This is not true. MMOs have had "DLC" before. Just not called DLC.

DDO for example had "Adventure Packs" which are the same thing and DDO came out nearly a full year before the PS3

Exactly what I was going to say.

The term Downloadable Content was introduced during the 360/PS3 era because console manufacturers were promoting the online features of consoles (I worked in a video game shop at the time and it's amazing to me how many people had no idea their console could connect to the internet), and many people were getting better internet connections which made downloading large chunks of data more reasonable.

But the idea of downloadable add-on packs predates that. I first encountered it with a game called Creatures 3/Docking Station in 2001 (coincidentally also the first time I heard the term free-to-play replace shareware) and I doubt it was new then. I don't know the full history but I suspect the idea of downloadable content and the practice of downloading it rather than getting it on a disc started with modders and has probably been around in one form or another nearly as long as the internet.

I still don't understand the distinction which is now made between DLC and expansion packs. To me DLC refers to how you obtain the content - downloading it rather than buying another disc to install it from - and expansion refers to the type of content - implying new quests, probably new areas, new monsters etc. as opposed to something like an item pack which is just new items. So in my head all expansions for modern games are DLC (because you can download them) but not all DLC is an expansion.

Cryptical wrote: »

Wait.

Tamriel unlimited was about taking away the requirement to subscribe.

It wasn’t about opening up new lands to existing players, it was about opening up the base game to non-subscribers.

Quote from the site from back then:
“The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited has arrived for PC and Mac! For the first time ever, you can adventure in ESO without paying a game subscription. The entire original game and all six major content updates since launch (including the new Justice and Champion Systems) are just waiting for you to log in and enjoy. Rally your most trusted allies, take up your sword, and get ready to experience everything Tamriel has to offer with no restrictions!”

New justice system? Oh, they mean bounties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0c08A3vswQ

The justice system they're referring to is the ability to steal and kill non-hostile NPCs and be punished by guards for doing so.

Before that update NPCs were either friendly and therefore couldn't be attacked at all, or hostile and no one else cared if you killed them. Containers in the world either couldn't be interacted with or held items which were free for anyone to take, even if it was in the bank or someone else's house.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Regardless of DLC vs Chapter vs whatever...


Different editions of games are different. Just because you bought "Awesome Game" in 2016 or 17, doesn't mean that you're going to get any new stuff added to the 2018 edition.


(heck, I've run into that with other MMOs in the past, when they went f2p. If you could find old physical copies of their earlier editions for sale, you could still enter the old codes to get the old perks. It was nice to get the "if you were an owner before we went f2p" bonuses, even after the f2p switchover. Eventually the last codes are invalidated, but it takes years usually. )

Same thing happened to me with ESO. I bought it when the switch to buy-to-play was announced and made sure to get a new, sealed copy from Amazon but I got lucky - the one I got was from launch so it included the pre-order bonus code and it still worked. Which was really nice because I wanted a khajiit, but also wanted to start in DC and of course back then you couldn't go to the other Alliance's zones until you'd finished your home campaign.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I still don't understand the distinction which is now made between DLC and expansion packs. To me DLC refers to how you obtain the content - downloading it rather than buying another disc to install it from - and expansion refers to the type of content - implying new quests, probably new areas, new monsters etc. as opposed to something like an item pack which is just new items. So in my head all expansions for modern games are DLC (because you can download them) but not all DLC is an expansion.

In ESO the distinction is between DLC which are included for free with an ESO+ subscription and everything else. There are Crown Store upgrades, Editions like the Imperial Edition, and Chapters. The interesting thing is that Chapters were marketed one way and then a year later ZOS decided to change how Chapters work.

If something is a DLC, ESO+ subscribers get it free. If its a Chapter, they have to pay cash until a year later (we know now) ZOS will break it up into parts. If its an upgrade, they have to pay with crowns.

Oh yeah, I understand how ZOS uses it. Although if I was a subscribed I'd have been pretty upset with the Morrowind announcement...luckily for me I don't subscribe so it was a matter of buying an update or buying an update, doesn't matter what they call it or how they try to dress it up for marketing purposes.

What I don't understand is the people who act like it's some universal and clearly understood distinction between the two, which all games use. You just have to look at Skyrim where the expansion packs could be purchased on a disk or downloaded - in which case they're classed as downloadable content - to see there's no clear line between them (and that's far from the only example), but some people still talk about them as if it's two entirely separate things which have never had anything in common and it should be obvious from that universal constant definition how each new game is separating the two.

Knootewoot wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

rahlforge wrote: »

I have loved Elder Scrolls games since I was a kid, and this game is no exception. Being able to experience the world of Tamriel is amazing, but then why do I have this sour taste in my mouth?

I just came back from a long hiatus due to the birth of twin boys, to find they added Vvardenfell via the Morrowind DLC...awesome! I can return to my favorite area of Tamriel, because I have Unlimited, right???

Wrong. Very, very wrong. Not only is my Tamriel Unlimited now...well, limited...now my options for even GETTING Morrowind have apparently been hamstrung, as well!

So here's where my frustration begins...I bought what I essentially believed was the base game. Cool. Well now the base game comes standard with Morrowind at the same price I originally bought the base game for. Wait, but that means I should get Morrowind, right? Nope. I still have to buy it separately, and here are my options:

Pay about $30 for enough Crowns to buy it from the Crown store.
Buy the base game AGAIN for $20 (hey, didn't I do that with TU?).
Buy a hard copy of the expansion from Amazon (about $13).

So basically, the most cost-effective option requires me to purchase from an outside source and wait for it to be delivered. I feel like Tamriel Unlimited purchasers got Horse Armored, here. I already bought the base game, and you're now selling the base game packaged with the expansion, but I still have to buy the expansion for more money than it would cost me to just buy the base game AGAIN??? WHAT GIVES???

I have three kids. Game purchases are a rare thing for me, so I am very careful about how and when I buy them, and this, to me, is just an unconscionable way to treat your subscribers. Guess I don't get to go back to Vvardenfell after all...oh, well. Time to crack out my old copy of Morrowind: GOTY, I guess...

is eso your first MMO?

ESO is an mmo, when you buy the base game that is it. As mmo age expansion packs are added that need to be bought. This has been a thing since the early 90s. As the game ages, more so the MMO they tend to pack the game+ expac as new expacs get added. You claim to be on a long break because of the kids. (good parent btw) but no you have to buy the expac. You don't have to buy the game again, just the expac.

best bet is just to pay 2 moths of sub, and get morrowind, that's 30 right there. that way you get the expac, and the sub perks.

Trust me, i'm an MMO vet his is 100% normal and in no way is horse armor from oblivion.

My son wanted to play Word of Warcraft. I didn't even need to buy the game. I could just sub and have access to ALL THE EXPANSIONS except the latest one (Battle for Azeroth). No need to even buy the game or any old expansion. Just a sub 13 euro a month.

and wow is a 15 year old MMO that came out in 2000s if you bought it when it originally came out you had to get each expac as it came out.

Again that is normal for games to drop in price as they age. WoW also added a plex system like eve online has. ff14 still has you buy the game, and each expac as it comes out, which is a newer mmo.

Do some research. You are acting a bit foolish.

Every expansion was free if the next expansion was released as far as i can recall. So all you had to do was wait until the next expansion released, and the previous one would be part of the base game. That has been since the second expansion. I might be wronk though.

very wrong. all they did was drop the price. I played WoW 2 years, and ff11 for 8 years. ff14 for 5 years. (and a good 29 more mmo) all blizz did was lower the price or bundle it. I played WoW in 2006 i had to buy the base game, burning circle and wrath, then cata after. in ff11 i had to buy the base game and expacs when i switched from ps2 to 360.

in ff14 you have to buy the base game and first expac plus the new one. MMO adding the early expacs to bundles is normal doing a price drop is normal.

No company ever just hands you an expac for free, only reason you get morrowind free is they took out the warden class and made morrowind a dlc, with warden being a separate purchase. they down graded it because they bundled it.

again research into how MMO operate would be a good thing, you seem to be very clueless about it and are spreading misinformation.

I've been playing mmo since 2004, i have 30+ mmo under my belt from p2p and f2p. I'm well versed in how they operate.

Well, i also play mmo's since 2004 and played maybe 20+ different mmo's. I never bought any "DLC" or expansion for SWTOR though and i still own them all.

And as i said i might be wrong about WOW as i never played the game myself.

Other mmo's i played mostly didn't get expansion because they died soon or just never received them. The only expansion i ever bought was ""Jump to Lightspeed", "Rage of the Wookies" and "Trials of Obi-wan" for SWG. All of those expansion became part of the base game. JTL went part of the basegame the next year after release of RotW.

And i got the Age of Conan's for free also. Never bought any, got them all under my account.

So no, i don't know how mmo's operate. They all do their own way apparently. Or give the expansions for free eventually because nobody buys it anyway.

oh got i hate to be that person, but.. actualy.. just becasue YOU haven't bought swtor expansions, doesn't mean they weren't on sale at one point. I still have Revan statues and Hutt holotrainer on my account to prove it.

the one thing that ESO does, I guess slightly differently is that in order to not pay extra for old expac like morrowind - you have to be a subscriber (but then again, WoW is subscription required and swtor... /deep sigh well.. to be honest, swtor is also subscription required nowadays, at a minimum, you have to subscribe for a month just to unlock max level content, expansions and all) .

What did you expect? To get all future game content for free from the package you bought at least 1-2 years ago? Even single player, offline games require you to pay for additional DLC. If you don't have spare money because of your kids, that's your choice, and it's pretty entitled to expect to get all future content for free, especially in a MMO with large ongoing costs.