Is it just me or is the "undaunted" skill line incredibly annoying?

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

There's a very simple fix for this. Simply request of the Devs that Undaunted passives cease to function in PvP. Everyone stays even, and you don't have to grind for this very minor bonus.

Samadhi · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter that much after all.

Majority of pure stam/magicka builds still need to build the lesser stat pools to manage things like buff and utility skills and roll dodge/break free tho
Every PvP character benefits from the Undaunted passive

What, excactly does that extra ~1000 minor stat do for you, because most builds aren't going to see much more than base + tri-stat-food level on their secondary stat.

Like I said before, It's effectively a free glyph for each stat.

Would you ever advise me in any circumstance to not run glyphs on my three large pieces of gear rather than having one on each?

Krayl · August 2018

This is the same problem that plague this game more than any other MMO I've played: "I deserve to have access to the same things everyone else has without earning it".

When this is pointed out, the response is always the same, "Just because you suffered through miserable painstaking grinds doesn't mean I should have to!"

But the thing is that for the most part none of these "grinds" are that bad. I would say of all of them, Psijic is the worst.

People complain about mages guild but if you just go zone to zone getting the zone "lore" set for that location you'll eventually finish mages guild and also grab some skyshards and wayshrines along the way you'll want later anyhow. Just slot Rapids and run around. If you NEED mages guild skills and passives, then it is WORTH your time - if you don't, it's not.

Undaunted is not bad at all if you just run the dungeons. Completing them all on even just normal the first time will get you far, vet will get you further, hard mode will help even more. Add in the solo daily and the key runs and there are plenty of ways to eventually level it up. Along the way you'll also earn achievements from dealing damage, blocking, and healing that all contribute.

If doing group content is beyond your abilities or patience, then I'm not sure what sort of content you really need the passives for. If your response to this is, "That shouldn't matter, i would like the passives as a way to maximize my character regardless of content" - I agree! So do the work to earn it. Join a guild that runs dungeons. Ask in zone chat or forums for other players looking to level undaunted and knock some out with them. Who knows, you may even *have fun!*

Psijic is the most annoying to grind up mainly because the fetch-ness of it is almost tongue-in-cheek mockery of fetchquestiness. It's like the designers were like "yeah it is what it is just make it obvious and excruciating". I would have thought after complaints about mage's guild they would have done more to stream-line the line leveling, but instead it's like they were all "well, just make the skull say funny things! That will make the time FLY by!". Nope. Moreso than just being an annoying fetch quest, it's just disappointing that they didn't come up with something more compelling at this late stage in the game's lifespan.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Samadhi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter that much after all.

Majority of pure stam/magicka builds still need to build the lesser stat pools to manage things like buff and utility skills and roll dodge/break free tho
Every PvP character benefits from the Undaunted passive

What, excactly does that extra ~1000 minor stat do for you, because most builds aren't going to see much more than base + tri-stat-food level on their secondary stat.

Like I said before, It's effectively a free glyph for each stat.

Would you ever advise me in any circumstance to not run glyphs on my three large pieces of gear rather than having one on each?

No, I'd advise you to go out and earn the glyphs.

Would doing so cut your effectiveness in half? Would you be completely unable to function? Hardly.

Ever have the charge on a weapon deplete mid fight? Did you suddenly drop dead or did it just hinder things the slightest bit?

Samadhi · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There's a very simple fix for this. Simply request of the Devs that Undaunted passives cease to function in PvP. Everyone stays even, and you don't have to grind for this very minor bonus.

It would be nice if Caltrops only functioned in Cyrodiil/IC/Battlegrounds
but that is not the design the devs went with

bri5 · August 2018

Starlock wrote: »

It does seem like there's room to add some additional sources of undaunted experience. These other sources would fit with the theme, I think:
Gain 5 undaunted XP for each cleared delve (10 for group delves in Craglorn and delves in Cyrodiil with 2+ bosses)

Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared public dungeon

Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared world boss

Gain 5 undaunted XP for each world boss kill

Gain 1 undaunted XP for each delve boss kill (2 for group delves in Craglorn)

(values are suggested; not sure what would be the best allotment)

I was quite shocked that this isn't a thing already!

Samadhi · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter that much after all.

Majority of pure stam/magicka builds still need to build the lesser stat pools to manage things like buff and utility skills and roll dodge/break free tho
Every PvP character benefits from the Undaunted passive

What, excactly does that extra ~1000 minor stat do for you, because most builds aren't going to see much more than base + tri-stat-food level on their secondary stat.

Like I said before, It's effectively a free glyph for each stat.

Would you ever advise me in any circumstance to not run glyphs on my three large pieces of gear rather than having one on each?

No, I'd advise you to go out and earn the glyphs.

Would doing so cut your effectiveness in half? Would you be completely unable to function? Hardly.

Has my claim been a complete inability to function without Undaunted passives?
My position is simply that every single one of my builds is made better by the Undaunted passive
and do not feel the time investment required for unlocking the passive to be proportionate to the reward
this could be rectified by increasing sources of Undaunted exp, either through buffing pledge rewards or adding more exp sources (such as individual delves)

you would advise me to go out and earn it; am simply requesting more opportunities to earn it

every one of my characters will eventually have Undaunted maxed, just as was done with Mage's Guild, Fighter's Guild and Psijic
tho it is a minor annoyance to me that Psijic was faster and easier to max out across characters despite being part of the game for significantly less time

Valrien · August 2018

Krayl wrote: »

This is the same problem that plague this game more than any other MMO I've played: "I deserve to have access to the same things everyone else has without earning it".

When this is pointed out, the response is always the same, "Just because you suffered through miserable painstaking grinds doesn't mean I should have to!"

But the thing is that for the most part none of these "grinds" are that bad. I would say of all of them, Psijic is the worst.

People complain about mages guild but if you just go zone to zone getting the zone "lore" set for that location you'll eventually finish mages guild and also grab some skyshards and wayshrines along the way you'll want later anyhow. Just slot Rapids and run around. If you NEED mages guild skills and passives, then it is WORTH your time - if you don't, it's not.

Undaunted is not bad at all if you just run the dungeons. Completing them all on even just normal the first time will get you far, vet will get you further, hard mode will help even more. Add in the solo daily and the key runs and there are plenty of ways to eventually level it up. Along the way you'll also earn achievements from dealing damage, blocking, and healing that all contribute.

If doing group content is beyond your abilities or patience, then I'm not sure what sort of content you really need the passives for. If your response to this is, "That shouldn't matter, i would like the passives as a way to maximize my character regardless of content" - I agree! So do the work to earn it. Join a guild that runs dungeons. Ask in zone chat or forums for other players looking to level undaunted and knock some out with them. Who knows, you may even *have fun!*

Psijic is the most annoying to grind up mainly because the fetch-ness of it is almost tongue-in-cheek mockery of fetchquestiness. It's like the designers were like "yeah it is what it is just make it obvious and excruciating". I would have thought after complaints about mage's guild they would have done more to stream-line the line leveling, but instead it's like they were all "well, just make the skull say funny things! That will make the time FLY by!". Nope. Moreso than just being an annoying fetch quest, it's just disappointing that they didn't come up with something more compelling at this late stage in the game's lifespan.

What about the people that have already gotten these passives on one character and simply don't want to do that tedious grind 14 more times across their account?

Because honestly if anyone says I didn't "earn" my skills when I say I want account-wide skills, I will be happy to show them the skill sheet and achievement sheet of my main.

Everyone should do it at least once though. That all being said, I do think that people who complain about it in the current state of things should just suck it up and level their character for both PvP and PvE because if you enjoy one you're probably gonna be doing the other at some point and all you do is gimp yourself.

Samadhi · August 2018

Would like it if Undaunted credit of some sort was given on every successful dungeon clear rather than from the quest achievement
or if Daily Pledges were repeatable for Undaunted exp but only gave keys on the first turn in of the day
it would be pretty cool to be to solo normal dungeons for repeat exp for an evening; or to run nooblets through Spindleclutch and be rewarded with Undaunted mentoring exp

Universe · August 2018

It is not just you

I farmed the undaunted skill line many times but I find it extremely boring.
Players shouldn't be forced to farm this guild skill line in order to remain competitive in PVP.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There's a very simple fix for this. Simply request of the Devs that Undaunted passives cease to function in PvP. Everyone stays even, and you don't have to grind for this very minor bonus.

This may be a good idea

Undaunted skill line to not work in PVP can make the fight a bit more even.
This may work but I don't think ZOS will accept it.

DurzoBlint13 · August 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Every PvE player has to grind Cyrodiil for Vigor and Caltrops.

caltrops takes less than 4 hours to get just by repairing walls. No swinging a weapon. No thinking. No trying at all. Just repair walls. You can even do it with no gear at all on and no CP allocated. Just buy some repair kits.

The undaunted passives are MUCH much longer to get. And involve at least a little bit of effort....not much, but it is a lot more tedious

CatchMeTrolling · August 2018

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

LittlePinkDot · August 2018

sh0wman wrote: »

It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about it's the 2%, or possibly 6% depending on your ligh/heavy/medium armor usage, buff to all of your stats.
6% is not a small number and in late game PVP it absolutely makes a difference.
So it's quite tedious that every single time I level up a PVP character I also have to find a way to PVE with him, with PVP gear... Not exactly a thrilling experience.
It makes absolutely no sense to hide a buff like this behind a skill line that is so grindy and only PVE oriented.
Either make undaunted easier to level or remove the buff all together.

Its boring garbage.
Time is money. And if I try to quantify the time I would have to put in, into an hourly wage it probably would be like getting 25c an hour.
I would rather they put the undaunted passives in that crown stores (and warhorn to be fair to pvers) like a token that can only be used on one characters.
I would be willing to pay up to 4000 crowns just to not waste the one thing I cannot buy more of....time.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

It can take 10 years to paint an average sized house, too, if you only do one brush stroke a day.

25 in game hours if you mildly pursue it. Less if you hardcore, more if you casual.

25 hours to max a line everyone is swearing you can't do without is not unreasonable at all.

CatchMeTrolling · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

It can take 10 years to paint an average sized house, too, if you only do one brush stroke a day.

25 in game hours if you mildly pursue it. Less if you hardcore, more if you casual.

25 hours to max a line everyone is swearing you can't do without is not unreasonable at all.

The point is they’re not comparable genius. What are you even going on about.

Thanks for proving my point btw , 25 hours isn’t to be compared to 1 hr.

Linaleah · August 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Why would you grind AvA as PvE player?
Worst scenario is if you are stamina character that need caltrops, but you can get that in few hours just logging into BGs, no need to win or anything.

I dont mind undaunted too much, to be honest. Maybe zenimax could make undaunted 10 unlock ultimate of some sort.

Warhorn, purge and magicka recovery passive from barrier (need rank 9 to get it iirc) for tanks and healers.
Caltrops and especially vigor are pretty much a must for a stamina char.
Even magicka bomb used to be very good in pve and people grinded it.

I'm just saying that the grind is pretty much comparable. And in dungeons you also get exp for kills and a ton of loot to sell or decon. I personally dont see a problem either way, it's not that much of an effort for BiS stuff.

for most people its not even remotely comparable. now if they make delve, public dungeons and world bosses count towards undaunted? THEN it will be comparable. doing dungeons on normal and completing first time quests for nearly all the normal dungeons? got me mid way through undaunted 3 when I was leveling my templar. (that's counting the dungeon damage dealer and dungeon healer achieves). just saying.

meanwhile it took me like.. an hour maybe? 2 castle sieges to get far enough into alliance rank to unlock warhorn for that very same templar. if I wanted to get caltrops, it would probably take another hour, maybe 2.

No, it would only be comparable if by the time you reach alliance rank 10 you get all of the 50 PvP skill points. Getting alliance ranks beyond 5 is a nightmare of a grind.

except you don't actualy need all those 50 ranks, you only need enough ranks to acess all the abilities (last I checked you don't even need all the passives for pve, as they are pvp specific). which.. takes significantly less time then undaunted for everyone but those select few with vetHM/speed run capable group at their beck and call.

Krayl · August 2018

Short answer:

If undaunted is difficult for you to get then you probably aren't the kind of player who is doing content that needs the passives. The skill line is meant to encourage group play so people learn to play the 'multiplayer' part of the MMO and has one enticing passive.

Linaleah · August 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

I'm a pve main and I'm very much FOR reducing undaunted grind significantly. please don't generalize. since I'm trying very hard NOT to generalize against pvp mains and THEIR responses for when pve people might actualy be interested in pvp rewards like, oh.. I don't know cosmetics and furnishings.

Linaleah · August 2018

Krayl wrote: »

Short answer:

If undaunted is difficult for you to get then you probably aren't the kind of player who is doing content that needs the passives. The skill line is meant to encourage group play so people learn to play the 'multiplayer' part of the MMO and has one enticing passive.

oh ffs. its not difficult. its tedious and overly long and has too few options for earning it unless you meet specific set if sircumstances

WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR IT TO BE GIVEN FOR FREE. we are asking for more variety of options to EARN it, so that its not as tedious as it is right now. especially since comparable pvp lines have so many and varied options for earning them.

CatchMeTrolling · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

I'm a pve main and I'm very much FOR reducing undaunted grind significantly. please don't generalize. since I'm trying very hard NOT to generalize against pvp mains and THEIR responses for when pve people might actualy be interested in pvp rewards like, oh.. I don't know cosmetics and furnishings.

I never said all.

Samadhi · August 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Upon further reflection, much of my stress prolly comes from this giving so much more reward
Currently pledges with the group finder are like a slot machine; get lucky with good DPS and end up with speed run, hard mode and no death achievements all in one go
or slog through and get 10 Undaunted gems for at least completing it with competent dps
but then repeat pulls of the slot machine for that day are all-or-nothing

the hand of RNGsus is errywhere

on the plus side, this degree of reflection has given me a productive avenue to explore
generally speaking it seems highest odds to get skilled dps (while playing as a tank)is right around Pledge reset in the middle of the night
with highest odds of getting just a clear after having to repeatedly res my team is around evening prime time
so should prolly focus on doing my Undaunted grinding around my typical crafting time, then do my crafting chores later

somehow my solution to make Undaunted less annoying is to treat it like more of a chore, fml e.e

Linaleah · August 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I find it ironic and hypocritical that pve mains are totally against reducing the amount for undaunted but was the most vocal when it came to reducing the requirement to get pvp skills and pvp rank 10.

That’s the problem with people that main one form of gameplay, they’re usually bias and hypocritical. Then to say the grinds are comparable explains why you see players spamming light attacks in pve because so many don’t know what they’re doing or talking about.

Undaunted can take days or weeks, it’s longer if you don’t have a dedicated team. The average pve player barely can pug or beat veteran dungeons as well so it’s funny pve mains are the most vocal. The same guys asking to nerf dlc dungeons. Meanwhile you can play bgs for an hr and go 0-100 but still get caltrops and vigor.

I'm a pve main and I'm very much FOR reducing undaunted grind significantly. please don't generalize. since I'm trying very hard NOT to generalize against pvp mains and THEIR responses for when pve people might actualy be interested in pvp rewards like, oh.. I don't know cosmetics and furnishings.

I never said all.

you didn't say some either. in any case, semantics aside, most of the time, its not even the same people. most of us would love the grinds to be less tedious whether pvp OR pve.

Ashtaris · August 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Please stop saying you have to grind for vigor and caltrops. It sounds stupid when you can get both in less than an hour for playing bgs, while doing the bare minimum. It’s nonsensical to even compare the two.

So you want a guy like me who has never really seen that much PVP action, not geared up for it, a basic scrub in your BG group? OK, ship me an invite the next time you do BG’s!

Krayl · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Short answer:

If undaunted is difficult for you to get then you probably aren't the kind of player who is doing content that needs the passives. The skill line is meant to encourage group play so people learn to play the 'multiplayer' part of the MMO and has one enticing passive.

oh ffs. its not difficult. its tedious and overly long and has too few options for earning it unless you meet specific set if sircumstances

WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR IT TO BE GIVEN FOR FREE. we are asking for more variety of options to EARN it, so that its not as tedious as it is right now. especially since comparable pvp lines have so many and varied options for earning them.

But it's not tedious or overly long if you're running dungeons. As is the intent of the line. And the passive is by no means a requirement for anything in the game.

CatchMeTrolling · August 2018

Ashtaris wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Please stop saying you have to grind for vigor and caltrops. It sounds stupid when you can get both in less than an hour for playing bgs, while doing the bare minimum. It’s nonsensical to even compare the two.

So you want a guy like me who has never really seen that much PVP action, not geared up for it, a basic scrub in your BG group? OK, ship me an invite the next time you do BG’s!

I wouldn’t care , that already happens.

Krayl · August 2018

Ashtaris wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Please stop saying you have to grind for vigor and caltrops. It sounds stupid when you can get both in less than an hour for playing bgs, while doing the bare minimum. It’s nonsensical to even compare the two.

So you want a guy like me who has never really seen that much PVP action, not geared up for it, a basic scrub in your BG group? OK, ship me an invite the next time you do BG’s!

Who knows. You might even like it, decide to earn gear for it, and eventually not be a scrub?

That's sort of the point of the BGs, dungeons, etc being available to everyone - to try and see if you like.

That's exactly WHY THERE ARE SKILLS LOCKED BEHIND THEM.

karekiz · August 2018

abigfishy wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Terrible answer. Do you assume everyone is 780CP in all gold gear? Or do you think that CP120 people in blue level 40 gear can easily complete deathless, speedrun, hardmode achievements?

I think if your CP 120 in level 40 gear undaunted/PvP skills/Rank 10 Mage guild isn't even on the radar.

Skill points and CP grinding is generally. Getting up crafting skill so you can more cheaply up the rarity of gear etc.

AlnilamE · August 2018

abigfishy wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Terrible answer. Do you assume everyone is 780CP in all gold gear? Or do you think that CP120 people in blue level 40 gear can easily complete deathless, speedrun, hardmode achievements?

People with CP 120 in blue gear are unlikely to be leveling Undaunted on their 5th character.

karekiz · August 2018

Reducing it is silly on both ends. You will still need to do it for each character.

Account wide ranks is where its at.

The_Brosteen · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There's a very simple fix for this. Simply request of the Devs that Undaunted passives cease to function in PvP. Everyone stays even, and you don't have to grind for this very minor bonus.

I like this idea, I've felt this way for a while but I'm pretty sure it would upset people