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Would you be more interested in dungeon dlc if normal was easier?
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purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭OtherHow about better reward rng for solo runs? So tired of taking the time to run a dungeon solo only to repeatedly get items with training and invigorating (aka "hating" and "infuriating"). I think solo should be recognized and rewarded in and of itself.Edited by purple-magicb16_ESO on August 29, 2018 2:17PMI don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesLadyNalcarya wrote: »Normal dungeons already do next to nothing to prepare players for their veteran versions.
And even though I dont have statistics, I think it's safe to guess that many people are actually buying and playing those dlc dungeons. If they were a failure, like original Craglorn, they wouldnt just keep releasing them.
I’d not be so sure of that. As you say we have no statistics.
I suspect that dungeon DLC allows them to hit thier once a quarter targets.
If they were not playable via a subscription and we had numbers for participation, then we would know if people were happy to pay for them.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoTitle pretty much nailed it.
A recent poll (not mine) showed that dungeon dlc is by far the least popular dlc content. So wanting to see if this is part of it.
What your poll showed was that Orsinium was the best DLC (and it included Maelstrom). The option was to pick one of the DLCs, so most people picked the one with the most content.
This does not mean that the DLC dungeons are too difficult on normal.The Moot Councillor2 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoNormal balance atm seems largely fine."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
See, this is not an issue of difficulty though. It's a separate issue entirely, one that still does not have a good solution from ZoS, because there is no real penalty for people being willfully or maliciously incompetent.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You absolutely don't need any of those things to clear norms. Almost any build that even roughly fits the spec of the role they're queuing for can clear norms with three other people meeting the same criteria.Joy_Division wrote: »Normal is cakewalk as it is and does absolutely nothing to show people how to actually play the game. how would making it even easier make the experience more interesting or improve the game?
Cakewalk is utterly subjective. If your optimised in gear, build, skills, cp, food, potions, rotation, animation cancelling, group buffs. With good knowledge of game mechanics, and running with players you know yes it’s going to be easy.
No rotation required, no terribly specific skills or gear slotted. No perfect traits, no BiS race.
And you don't learn any of that by further dumbing it down.This game has far more layers of complexity than we give it credit for. Once you’ve mastered it, the difference in performance is staggering.
It's almost as if you're saying "gain that experience by learning your class/role/skills before jumping into DLC dungeons," or TL;DR; "Be semi-competent before trying these?"You can’t ever unlearn it either, once mechanics are second nature you can go cp less, with bad gear and you’ll still be better than those that didn’t take it seriously.
Dungeon DLC's are not, nor should they be, intended to be your first dungeon experiences. The Version I's and the Version II's hold that purpose, then basesgame Vet or DLC norms maybe, with HM's and DLC Vet, and DLC HM falling in somewhere after that.
I think an issue is that, as you say they don’t require full optimisation, but they do need people fulfilling their actual roles. But they appear in the same random dungeon queue as ones that don’t require you to fulfill your role.
Personally I’ll never fake queue, but an awful lot do. Get one of those queued with thier mate and you can’t even kick them. In that situation good luck finishing it.
Making it easier still, promotes that as acceptable behavior, vice discourages it. You're going to come across the occasional group that way. All you can do is leave and requeue, content in the knowledge they they're not going to be clearing it either.
They're not going to put achievement restrictions on being able to buy content. They'd lose money. Be content in knowing that at least at the present 'difficulty' those kinds of people will likely not be repeating the content.
If you simplify further, they'll have absolutely nothing to dissuade them from doing so.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesTitle pretty much nailed it.
A recent poll (not mine) showed that dungeon dlc is by far the least popular dlc content. So wanting to see if this is part of it.
What your poll showed was that Orsinium was the best DLC (and it included Maelstrom). The option was to pick one of the DLCs, so most people picked the one with the most content.
This does not mean that the DLC dungeons are too difficult on normal.
Poll was not mine.
This poll was to see if difficulty was related to popularity. It’s all there in your quote.
Please read what you quote before quoting it.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoMerlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.The Moot Councillor2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherI'm already interested in DLC dungeons, I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. What I'm NOT interested in is playing people that cannot grasp the simplest of mechanics to save their life and would rather run into a wall continuously instead of listen to advice on what to do.
Get me players with a pair of functioning synapses and I'll go thru any DLC dungeon.Argonian forever1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesMerlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherMerlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.
Until recently, Summerset iirc, normal dlc dungeons unlocked at lvl 10. Vet, DLC dungeons unlocked as soon as the character hit CP10.
I’ve have had a tank in nWGT that was in the low 20s and both dps were high 20s.Edited by idk on August 29, 2018 3:03PM1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesSilver_Strider wrote: »I'm already interested in DLC dungeons, I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. What I'm NOT interested in is playing people that cannot grasp the simplest of mechanics to save their life and would rather run into a wall continuously instead of listen to advice on what to do.
Get me players with a pair of functioning synapses and I'll go thru any DLC dungeon.
We already have this with forming our own group.
I’ve gone back to running dungeons regularly and have enjoyed the new dungeons. A group of friends came to eso recently so they’re not very experienced in the game and still leveling.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.
Until recently, Summerset iirc, normal dlc dungeons unlocked at lvl 10. Vet, DLC dungeons unlocked as soon as the character hit CP10.
I’ve have a tank in nWGT that was in the low 20s and both dps were high 20s.
That’s actually encouraging. Shows they will make some logical changes.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherSilver_Strider wrote: »I'm already interested in DLC dungeons, I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. What I'm NOT interested in is playing people that cannot grasp the simplest of mechanics to save their life and would rather run into a wall continuously instead of listen to advice on what to do.
Get me players with a pair of functioning synapses and I'll go thru any DLC dungeon.
We already have this with forming our own group.
I’ve gone back to running dungeons regularly and have enjoyed the new dungeons. A group of friends came to eso recently so they’re not very experienced in the game and still leveling.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.
Until recently, Summerset iirc, normal dlc dungeons unlocked at lvl 10. Vet, DLC dungeons unlocked as soon as the character hit CP10.
I’ve have a tank in nWGT that was in the low 20s and both dps were high 20s.
That’s actually encouraging. Shows they will make some logical changes.
Yes they did and it put the dungeons via GF into a good place.
Of course a group that is not formed via GF can walk right in. With a group of friends that joined the game recently we walk into the dlc dungeons since they’re not high enough lvl. Being they’re not optimized and don’t even have all their skills nor any CP we still clear the DLC dungeons just fine. I usually tank so not adding to the dps with my trial optimized dps characters.0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesSilver_Strider wrote: »I'm already interested in DLC dungeons, I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. What I'm NOT interested in is playing people that cannot grasp the simplest of mechanics to save their life and would rather run into a wall continuously instead of listen to advice on what to do.
Get me players with a pair of functioning synapses and I'll go thru any DLC dungeon.
We already have this with forming our own group.
I’ve gone back to running dungeons regularly and have enjoyed the new dungeons. A group of friends came to eso recently so they’re not very experienced in the game and still leveling.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.
Until recently, Summerset iirc, normal dlc dungeons unlocked at lvl 10. Vet, DLC dungeons unlocked as soon as the character hit CP10.
I’ve have a tank in nWGT that was in the low 20s and both dps were high 20s.
That’s actually encouraging. Shows they will make some logical changes.
Yes they did and it put the dungeons via GF into a good place.
Of course a group that is not formed via GF can walk right in. With a group of friends that joined the game recently we walk into the dlc dungeons since they’re not high enough lvl. Being they’re not optimized and don’t even have all their skills nor any CP we still clear the DLC dungeons just fine. I usually tank so not adding to the dps with my trial optimized dps characters.
Bet they will actually listen to your advice on what to do though.
I’m all for educating players but some just hate you telling them what to do and you can only say to your dps “stop heavy attacking with your frost staff, it taunts the boss” so many times before you know they just don’t care.0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoAgenericname wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Normal is cakewalk as it is and does absolutely nothing to show people how to actually play the game. how would making it even easier make the experience more interesting or improve the game?
Cakewalk is utterly subjective. If your optimised in gear, build, skills, cp, food, potions, rotation, animation cancelling, group buffs. With good knowledge of game mechanics, and running with players you know yes it’s going to be easy.
This game has far more layers of complexity than we give it credit for. Once you’ve mastered it, the difference in performance is staggering.
You can’t ever unlearn it either, once mechanics are second nature you can go cp less, with bad gear and you’ll still be better than those that didn’t take it seriously.
So before declaring content as cake walk, do be honest with yourself and think just how much your knowledge and experience make it that way.
Then maybe we should just share our knowledge and experience and theyll become easier without ZoS lifting a finger.
But we would be sharing it with those that have already made the conscious decision to get gud. You can’t teach those that do t want to be taught.
It's pretty rare that I meet someone that doesn't have any interest in self improvement. Many simply dont want to be insulted and I'd wager more than a few would confess that they were embarrassed to some extent that they didnt know something if they were honest.
At this point I'd call normal DLCs An Introduction to Mechanics in ESO 101. If we ignore the "everyone needs to do 50k DPS" hyperboles, the requirements to clear a normal DLC arent very high. Removing the challenge would likely have an adverse impact on casuals.
It's the "catch a man a fish" vs "teach a man fish" argument. If someone really needs my fish, they can have it, but learning to fish would serve them more.
If someone genuinely doesn't want to learn, then asking to alter the game for that reason alone is myopic and doesn't stand on it own merit.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
I'm sure her faith in humanity decreases every day she goes to work lol1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoDifficulty in itself isn't why I find PvE boring as hell, that dungeons basically amount to a very predictable game of Simon Says is what sends me to sleep and is a big reason why the MMORPG genre is in that state it is in, subpar gameplay with low repeatably for all but the most "special" or casual of gamers.0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesCarbonised wrote: »It's not normal that's a problem, you can usually PUG through DLC normals, but the moment you queue for vet you need a 4 man premade group with experience or you have no chance whatsoever of doing it.
Mechanics overload, way too many unforgiving mechanics and one shots make vet dungeons a nightmare, and all the rewards are gated behind vet, so what's the point of doing normal. That's also part of the reasons why people do 3 DDs instead of a healer.
Personally, I do normal dungeons once for the skill point and completion, then never again. With the few exceptions such as 1-2 runs of SP to get my Zaan mask that I really wanted. Which means completing 2 new dungeons takes about 2-3 hours at best, and then the new content is done for me. Which of course makes dungeon DLCs extremely unpopular with me and my kind, compared to Chapters or even smaller story/zone DLCs.
The solution is pretty simple, if you want me and others like me to do vet DLC dungs, you need to make the disparity between normal and vet much smaller, and make vet difficulty more forgiving and less punishing for PUG groups. Save the unforgiving mechanics for Hard Mode.
If not, I'll just keep doing a single run on normal, and pretend the dungeon doesn't exist after that.
OMG +1 a man after my own heart.
you nailed everything right on the head.
normal is easy, but there is no reward for doing normal, and vet is too hard.
as it stand right now I get all dungeon DLC for free and I still never run them or care, because I cannot run them on vet (skill wise im fine but my group is only 3 people and the other 2 lack skill) and you get nothing from normal so there is no point.
so I skip them completely, sad as I know a lot of development goes into them, oh well.Edited by Wing on August 29, 2018 3:48PMESO player since beta.
previously full time subscriber, beta-2024, now off and on, game got too disappointing.
PC NA
( ^_^ )
You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -XenogearsDK one trick2 -
LioraValkyrie✭✭✭✭OtherBelieve it or not, there are a lot of people on ESO who are 60+ years old with low-grade arthritis, players with physical disabilities, players in parts of the world whose ping never goes below 500...
They should just git gud, right?
I believe that if you buy content, you should be entitled to a mode that allows you to complete it and access all its perks without having to be carried. Heck, I think everyone who purchases a DLC is entitled to all the skins and gear that goes with it, no matter what difficulty setting you complete it on.
For example, WW role play is a big thing in ESO and there are people who would get a lot of satisfaction out of having the Beast personality who are never going to get it under the current criteria. I think more people would buy the DLC if they knew that they would eventually be able to have these perks, no matter their skill level.
Additionally, gating monster helms behind vet mode only serves to decrease the ability of the least skilled players to perform their roles effectively. Who wants that?
Maybe after completing a given dungeon 25 times on any mode you automatically get the cosmetics and a random monster helm drop? Those wishing for 'proof of credentials' could still link their challenger achievement.Mistress of Apocrypha - Master PetSorc
Founder of The Lollygaggers
Creator of the 1-bar vMA build
World first solo vFH
Unchained Altmer Sorc Tank
Visit me on YouTube! Mistress of Apocrypha ESO6 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoMerlin13KAGL wrote: »
Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.
You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?
Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.
There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.
I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.
IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.
Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.
When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.
I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.
If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.
People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.
I disagree with that assumption. I think people want to keep things as they are so that players can become better at the game. If everything is easy, people will get bored.
I PUG normal dungeons pretty often on my healers, and I have only twice not completed a DLC dungeon. Once was ICP with a level 12 tank who had just queued for a dungeon for the first time ever. Second was Scalecaller with a group that didn't know the dungeon and they all gave up after the third wipe on the troll boss while we were figuring out the mechanics.
I don't see this as an indictment of the difficulty of dungeons.
A level 12 tank in ICP? I’ve just levelled a DK, Templar and Warden from 10 to 50, by nothing other than groupfinder. I actually tank, so queues were quick.
I don’t recall ever getting a DLC dungeon at a level before 45.
I do recall getting scalecaller at 46 and completing it, but it took forever.
As idk pointed out, early in the GF the WGT/ICP unlocked at level 10 (even though the recommended level was 35). This was changed a while ago (I think around Dragon Bones?), but before then I did run several WGT runs with level 20s.
The Moot Councillor0 -
mateosalvaje✭✭✭✭NoLast night I ran the Wolfhunter dungeons with three people I'd never met or played with on Normal. I ran Infernal Guardian, Master Architect, Necropotence pet build, the tank was new, and we didn't have a healer. None of us had BIS gear, and we wiped maybe a dozen times figuring out the mechanics for ourselves. Sure we could have all watched a video, but we were more interested in the stories and exploring new areas. It was the best group experience I've ever had, and I've been playing since release. I don't think the dlc dungeons are too hard on normal, I think it's just hard finding people who are willing to listen to each other.I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again.1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesmateosalvaje wrote: »Last night I ran the Wolfhunter dungeons with three people I'd never met or played with on Normal. I ran Infernal Guardian, Master Architect, Necropotence pet build, the tank was new, and we didn't have a healer. None of us had BIS gear, and we wiped maybe a dozen times figuring out the mechanics for ourselves. Sure we could have all watched a video, but we were more interested in the stories and exploring new areas. It was the best group experience I've ever had, and I've been playing since release. I don't think the dlc dungeons are too hard on normal, I think it's just hard finding people who are willing to listen to each other.
That’s nice to see.
I had a similar experience with cradle. It is very very enjoyable when you get a group of utter strangers together and your all patient enough to learn as you go.
It is rare though.1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesLioraValkyrie wrote: »For example, WW role play is a big thing in ESO and there are people who would get a lot of satisfaction out of having the Beast personality who are never going to get it under the current criteria. I think more people would buy the DLC if they knew that they would eventually be able to have these perks, no matter their skill level.
Yeah, I was super bummed when I found this out. We haven't had a personality release in quite a while that hasn't been gated behind hard content like this.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherZOS already lowered the skill floor on normal DLC dungeons starting with HotR I believe.
Normal is very easy. I've never heard of anyone wiping.Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 29, 2018 4:45PM0 -
bloodthirstyvampire✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherI don't care about the difficulty, only what sets there are and my dailies, so I can get back to cyrodill as soon as possible.Edited by bloodthirstyvampire on August 29, 2018 7:02PM0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OtherI am always interested in new dungeon content. I primarily play on normal cause I don't like wasting time and I like having fun (for me personally steamrolling content with a maxed out build is fun). With that being said I would not mind if ZOS decided to add dungeons that were easier than the typical DLC dungeons. Perhaps they could add a part 2 to the rest of the vanilla dungeons and have them be as difficult as the other part 2 dungeons.
If you're referring to the poll about "Which Single DLC Would You Choose?" based on the context of that poll I can't imagine many players would choose a dungeon DLC regardless of difficulty over content that significantly adds to the game (maelstrom arena improves your gameplay as an individual, the transmutation station alleviates the grind, dark brotherhood is great for those who want to roleplay an assassin, the gold making opportunities of thieves guild, and longer storylines in general).
Also normal DLC dungeons become significantly easier once you learn the mechanics. My only issue with them are the potential one-shot mechanics that are at times completely unforgiving.
(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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WeaselGod✭✭✭NoSame dude who wants monster helm drops in normals. What issue are you having my dude? You're obviously not doing good enough to even get past normal difficulty.0 -
Kilcosu✭✭✭Othernormal dlc just takes knowledge of mechanics for fights. (or high enough dps to burn bosses)
either one of these comes with time and patience0 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherReason to do dlc dungeon: title, skin, color, monsterhelm.
normal has none of those.1 -
AdamBourke✭✭✭✭✭OtherI'd be more interested if they had this story mode which keeps getting floated around the forums...PS4 - EU
Please put the Eyevea/EarthForge wayshrines back on the map?3
