Would you be more interested in dungeon dlc if normal was easier?

Guppet

Title pretty much nailed it.

A recent poll (not mine) showed that dungeon dlc is by far the least popular dlc content. So wanting to see if this is part of it.

Strider__Roshin

No

Easy = Boring

Guppet

Yes

Daus wrote: »

Easy = Boring

Your obviously welcome to that opinion.

But, I do have to ask if you like harder content, why would you be doing normal? Heroic is right there too. Is heroic too hard for you? Are both scaled wrong?

If heroic is fine for you, then why do you care if normal is easier?

Emma_Overload

No

The whole problem is that BIS PvP gear (eg Zaan) is gated behind ridiculous mechanics in the VET DLC dungeons. Nerfing the normals won't help much.

greylox

Other

Normal is easy, vet is too hard, need an inbetween.

mocap

No

forum community ain't that casual, so it is pointless to ask here about content nerf, especially when there are ton of "overland EZPZ wet noodle" threads.

Strider__Roshin

No

greylox wrote: »

Normal is easy, vet is too hard, need an inbetween.

https://youtu.be/39fMl8qjI1k

Carbonised

Other

It's not normal that's a problem, you can usually PUG through DLC normals, but the moment you queue for vet you need a 4 man premade group with experience or you have no chance whatsoever of doing it.
Mechanics overload, way too many unforgiving mechanics and one shots make vet dungeons a nightmare, and all the rewards are gated behind vet, so what's the point of doing normal. That's also part of the reasons why people do 3 DDs instead of a healer.

Personally, I do normal dungeons once for the skill point and completion, then never again. With the few exceptions such as 1-2 runs of SP to get my Zaan mask that I really wanted. Which means completing 2 new dungeons takes about 2-3 hours at best, and then the new content is done for me. Which of course makes dungeon DLCs extremely unpopular with me and my kind, compared to Chapters or even smaller story/zone DLCs.

The solution is pretty simple, if you want me and others like me to do vet DLC dungs, you need to make the disparity between normal and vet much smaller, and make vet difficulty more forgiving and less punishing for PUG groups. Save the unforgiving mechanics for Hard Mode.
If not, I'll just keep doing a single run on normal, and pretend the dungeon doesn't exist after that.

swippy

No

Guppet wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Easy = Boring

Your obviously welcome to that opinion.

But, I do have to ask if you like harder content, why would you be doing normal? Heroic is right there too. Is heroic too hard for you? Are both scaled wrong?

If heroic is fine for you, then why do you care if normal is easier?

the question didn't ask if anyone was opposed to creating an easier mode. if someone plays veteran dungeons exclusively they're unlikely to care much about unrelated difficulty levels. therefore any changes to a level easier than their preference is irrelevant and won't result in them being "more interested" as the question was asked.

you're asking someone who's uninterested to explain why they care, when they already said they don't.

Gnozo

No

From the threads you created i assume you want ez pz normal dungeons and get a monster set at the end in blue quality wich takes 0.2 seconds to improve to purple.

Sorry to say but: git gud.

Merlin13KAGL

No

Something like this?

1. Port in.
2. Talk to final quest giver.
3. Profit?

Normals already don't require much of a solid build, and require almost no mechanics.

Instead of simplifying DLC norms, maybe the Devs should make mechanics an actual requirement on other norms? That way, you know, people might actually have to progress?

Guppet

Yes

Gnozo wrote: »

From the threads you created i assume you want ez pz normal dungeons and get a monster set at the end in blue quality wich takes 0.2 seconds to improve to purple.

Sorry to say but: git gud.

And this is why you should never assume anything. I don’t need any help with getting monster sets, I have them all. Even have the ones I don’t ever use stored in my home.

Ok I do t have the wolf hunter ones yet, as they only patched yesterday.

If you don’t know something, the smart thing to do is ask, not assume.

shootatme80

No

I like that the dlc dungeons are more difficult. I think the problem is that the normal version of most dungeons is too easy. I run the dlc's on normal to learn the mechanics or if I want gear besides jewelry. I rely on vet dlc's for a challenge, I don't want any version of the dlc's made easier.

AcadianPaladin

Yes

I think perhaps three levels: Story mode, normal/intermediate, vet. I totally avoid DLC dungeons because of stupid mechanics. Not interested in becoming a you tube / walkthru warrior before each dungeon. And, no, I don't care about gear - that is not why I do dungeons.

ayu_fever

Yes

dlc dungeons are designed to give the consumer a value and challenge.
they are not PUGgable, and are meant for guilds/friends.
if the dungeons were as easy as fungal grotto 1 we would all be disappointed.
the issue is balance of challenge and value for the time, effort, and money spent.
ZOS still hasnt got that right on dlc dungeon packs, but wolfhunter is easier than dragon bones so it is a big steo forward.

i do think normal mode of dlc dungeons should be mega nerfed to match base game dungeon difficulty and leave the brutal difficulty and struggles for veteran mode.
not everyone has friends and guilds to play with, which largely locks them out of dlc dungeon completion.
not everyone wants to be challenged. veteran mode is for that. normal mode should be for cruising through.

Guppet

Yes

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I think perhaps three levels: Story mode, normal/intermediate, vet. I totally avoid DLC dungeons because of stupid mechanics. Not interested in becoming a you tube / walkthru warrior before each dungeon. And, no, I don't care about gear - that is not why I do dungeons.

I think that’s not a bad idea at all.

Story mode, no gear drops, but you can do the quest there.

Some of the quests have like 2 minutes of dialogue before you can hand them in, so if you pug you’ll never complete them.

I actually watch players to see if they are there for the quest and tend to leave last, but many won’t.

Kel

No

More interested? No.
When I get a dlc dungeon, it can go two ways. We either have players who actually queue for the roles they really play, or we get fake roles.
The tanks who are really tanks, and healers who are really healers make the dungeon easy, even with the simplest understanding of mechanics.
And while it's frustrating, I'm glad dlc dungeons are punishing to fake roles. I wonder how many of the "dlc dungeons aren't puggable" are because too many players queue for fake roles, and not necessarily because of mechanics. I often pug, and hardly had issues when the roles are correct.

So no, I don't think the answer would be easier dungeons, I think the answer is needing tanks and healers who actually perform the role they queued for. Yes, even for normal.

Tandor

Other

It would depend on what is meant by "easier". I don't do dungeons at present simply because I have no interest in group content, so if "easier" meant "solo version" then I'd definitely do them and be excited about dungeon DLCs which at present simply hold no interest for me. On the other hand, if "easier" simply meant group content that wasn't so dependent on the elites holding other group members to ransom over their builds or certain roles not being so essential for group formation in order to ease queuing issues then it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me.

Not that I'm asking for all game content to be soloable, nor ignoring the fact that many will express surprise that we can't all solo dungeons already with one hand tied behind our back, I'm just answering the question put for this topic!

Guppet

Yes

jabrone77 wrote: »

More interested? No.
When I get a dlc dungeon, it can go two ways. We either have players who actually queue for the roles they really play, or we get fake roles.
The tanks who are really tanks, and healers who are really healers make the dungeon easy, even with the simplest understanding of mechanics.
And while it's frustrating, I'm glad dlc dungeons are punishing to fake roles. I wonder how many of the "dlc dungeons aren't puggable" are because too many players queue for fake roles, and not necessarily because of mechanics. I often pug, and hardly had issues when the roles are correct.

So no, I don't think the answer would be easier dungeons, I think the answer is needing tanks and healers who actually perform the role they queued for. Yes, even for normal.

I certainly wouldn’t disagree with anything you’ve just said.

But you have highlighted one of the issues. The need for actual tanks and healers. For non dlc you don’t really need those for normals.

That in itself means that people get used to that and the difference is jarring.

Dlc dungeons are quite doable when people know what they are doing. But they are not in the same ballpark difficulty wise as non dlc dungeons. They are similar in difficult to non dlc vet dungeons.

VaranisArano

No

Normal difficulty was fine.

I'm just not interested in paying for 2 dungeons. I'll save my crowns for the overland questing DLC like Clockwork City or Murkmire.

DirkRavenclaw

No

I wanna see Mechanics on Normal Dungeons because that is the only way you get prepared for Vet

Merlin13KAGL

No

ayu_fever wrote: »

dlc dungeons are designed to give the consumer a value and challenge.
they are not PUGgable, and are meant for guilds/friends.
if the dungeons were as easy as fungal grotto 1 we would all be disappointed.
the issue is balance of challenge and value for the time, effort, and money spent.
ZOS still hasnt got that right on dlc dungeon packs, but wolfhunter is easier than dragon bones so it is a big steo forward.

i do think normal mode of dlc dungeons should be mega nerfed to match base game dungeon difficulty and leave the brutal difficulty and struggles for veteran mode.

And for those not quite ready for Vet? If you want normal dungeon difficulty, then go do non-DLC dungeons. There's nothing wrong with DLC's having a touch of challenge, even on norm.

not everyone has friends and guilds to play with, which largely locks them out of dlc dungeon completion.

Good thing it's an MMO and not just an MO. You can find people in zone chat all day long.

not everyone wants to be challenged. veteran mode is for that. normal mode should be for cruising through.

And not everyone wants it handed to them, even if norm is the only clear they every get.

If you want a participation trophy, buy a Crown Store pet, not a dungeon DLC, or enter, get the "Congratulations, you walked in the door!" reward and move along.

Norms are PuGable all day long. They still require some level of competence, but they are most definitely PuGable.

LukosCreyden

No

Nah. Normal is mostly worthless anyways.

idk

Other

Normal is easy in the new dungeons. Heck, most mechanics can be ignored since they provide little damage or resistance.

Making them easier would be more of a disservice to the player base. I remember when a group could do nDSA would be a solid indicator they could handle vDSA. Now nDSA is just a joke. nDungeons are currently a joke because they are so easy.

Edit: whatever forum poll OP is citing is meaningless just as the poll in this thread is meaningless. Nothing more than entertainment value since sampling is not a proper sample of the playerbase. This is not my opinion but a statement on the statistics themselves.

Zos sees the real poll on this subject and that is the only one that matters. That is how well dungeon DLCs actually do. This is not my opinion about the forum polls but fact.

Raammzzaa

Other

I think normal mode is easy as it is...

Guppet

Yes

idk wrote: »

Normal is easy in the new dungeons. Heck, most mechanics can be ignored since they provide little damage or resistance.

Making them easier would be more of a disservice to the player base. I remember when a group could do nDSA would be a solid indicator they could handle vDSA. Now nDSA is just a joke. nDungeons are currently a joke because they are so easy.

Edit: whatever forum poll OP is citing is meaningless just as the poll in this thread is meaningless. Nothing more than entertainment value since sampling is not a proper sample of the playerbase. This is not my opinion but a statement on the statistics themselves.

Zos sees the real poll on this subject and that is the only one that matters. That is how well dungeon DLCs actually do. This is not my opinion about the forum polls but fact.

We all know that. It doesn’t need stating in such a jerky way.

Everything on these forums follows that same theory even your opinions.

Things in the forums are just for us fans to discuss things.

If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.

[removed baiting comment]

Merlin13KAGL

No

Guppet wrote: »

If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.

Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.

You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?

Guppet

Yes

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.

Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.

You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?

Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.

There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.

I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.

IDK is right that zos sees the actual stats for activity completion. Forums are always vastly more popular with more hardcore elements, it’s the same for all games. But the majority of actual players are normally much more casual.

Unfortunately with no statistics from zos we will never know.

When I do polls or questions it’s not so I can get things easier. Don’t assume that.

I want the game to be as successful as it can same as you no doubt.

If the devs actually listened to the forums the game would be ultra hardcore and an utter car crash.

People are just used to the loud voices on forums being from the hardcore crowd and they don’t like it when those less hardcore start making themselves heard.

pdblake

It would be nice if they all had a 'Solo' option too.

Everstorm

Yes

I would like it if normal versions had no mechanics (or slightly different ones) that prevent me from doing them solo. I mainly care about the story and seeing the zone.

Merlin13KAGL

No

Guppet wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

If we are getting picky, you do realise that your complaint with DSA basically stated there was not enough difference between norm and vet (if clearing normal means they are capable of vet) Now you complain when there is.

Except is used to not always be that way. But that was in a land with zone leveled content, real progression from Tier I four man to Tier II four man to Vet to Vet HM.

You proclaim to have cleared all the four man content on Vet, yet you keep making these threads asking, in one form or another, for things to be dialed back significantly further than they already are?

Vet is for serious play. Normal is not. Sometimes I want to relax and not take it super serious. I’m good with vet and hardmodes being as hard as they are.

There seems to be a very serious undercurrent on these forums of wanting to keep content hard to keep people out. Or making gear hard to get, so those that get it can feel some warped sense of validation.

I’m never going to be convinced that normal modes should be hard. Hard is subjective.

And I ask again, what of those that are in the middle. What of those that don't have the option of being able to clear Vet (due to experience, skill, disability, etc) yet do want a challenge as that's what they paid for?

Your suggestion leaves nothing for those people, effectively "keeping them out."

No one is saying norm needs to be hard. Very few are requesting norm to be easy, either.

No one is demanding inability to clear for anyone of reasonable means. No one should be requesting content to be further simplified (or increased in difficulty) strictly to suit their requirements.

You are doing the very thing you're complaining about, simply on the other end of the spectrum.

Norms are not hard, not if you've taken the time to learn your class, and made use of the content prior to the DLC releases to hone your skill to an acceptable norm level.

And again, there are other methods of obtaining the gear, and for someone intending to be super casual, the gear isn't even necessary. It's bonus.