MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

CP is a difficulty slider in a way.

Zero to the current CP max would offer a varying degree of overland difficulty. It is cheep it change the points and allows to move them up or down based on you desired difficulty setting.

When it comes to overland content (Minus some overland bosses) even at zero CP with the best gear I would think that most experienced players would romp right past all the bad guys with little issues and destroy the main threat. It would be a bit slower though, take a little longer to kill the sub bosses and the main bad guy. Could be the right amount of challenge for overland for some.

I always imagine the hero of battles past does not really need to ramp up his skills to destroy the next threat. The second Avengers movie did not have montage of training for all the heroes to be sure they were ready to face Ultron. They were already Baddass and ready to dish out the pain. I think of my main toon this way. He is the one that has completed all the quests and is more than ready to face off against the next daedra trying to destroy Nirn. No training montage required. Just like every mundane non-hero NPC over estimates how elite a bad guy is, the new bad guy always under estimates the hero who defeated Molag and the rest who have stepped up. Could just be bad writing or could be ingenious writing becasue all the baddies just cant understand how powerful the vestige really is.

To each their own of course on how people like to imagine there ultimate adventure within ESO.


Happy slaying!

It's not cheap at all to change the points.

It costs 3k. That means 3k to take off the points and 3k to put them back. If you do this every day (you need CP for dungeons and trials), you're looking at 42k gold a week.

It also takes a long time to reallocate everything. All of the points end up on strange numbers becuase of jump points, so you need to consult the jump point table every time you put the points back. This takes 15-20 minutes, so around 2 hours of time wasted every week. You can farm 150k gold in 2 hours, so that's an additional opportunity cost.

You may not like it , but it is a way you can change the difficulty right now without waiting for further code. Not claiming there are not better ways that can be implemented, but this is something you can do currently.

NPCs/bosses at the end of quests just need more health. They don't need to be a real threat, but at least they could take longer to kill than a few gcds. You also end up missing voice lines that take a bit of time to come up if you kill them right away, so you have to stand there and do nothing while they beat on you to get the entire story.

If you're going to add voice lines/story during their fight that you won't see unless you do 2k dps, at least give them some kind of immunity while they're saying it.

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

wot? You didn't serious, right? )
Do you know how many HP points have that big Mantikora boss from Craglorn main quest? 70K. It has bloody 70k HP !

Craglorn main quest line is actually easiest in the game (besides that daily quests).

They've nerfed Craglorn I think in One Tamriel. Pre-nerfed you were forced to group for the main quest in Craglorn, and even worst, you need to be on the same quest in the chain in order to help each other. Even over land mobs were "dungeon" level (Northen Crag), when top dps was like 30k and most people were 15-20k. Craglorn back then was empty except for Belkarth where people semi afk waiting to port into trials and Nirn farmers. Imperial City is also a "harder zone" cause it's mix between pvp and pve, and see how that turned out. ZoS learned from these mistakes.

I know that some of the craglorn quests are definitely going to be impossible for newer players, but I think I might have done what was intended to be a group quest solo, because some of the bosses were practically 1 shotting me, heh. It was in Shada's Tear I think? It would be great if more quests were tuned like that, but I guess that's probably extremely unlikely to happen.

Maybe if some quests had instancing and a difficulty setting..

Moonscythe wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

Yeah it sucks but they rake in more new blood and cash caterpillars if the game makes you feel like a winner at the start. Too many people would be turned off by more difficult quest content.

I object to this comment. The noobies and "cash caterpillars" (really? like long-time players don't support the crown store?") are the life blood of this game in the long term. Without them the game would die. Even the most dedicated god-mode end game player takes a break now and then or only plays the new content and then leaves for greener pastures. If the new players are not welcomed or have nothing they can do to get the feel of the game they won't stay around and feeling like a winner is part of that. Elder Scrolls has never been about dying or even struggling to stay alive so much as it is about exploring and the over-all experience. Personally, I don't think Elder Scrolls was a good fit for an MMO; but, it's here, and should be attuned to its roots.

You object? But we are in agreement.

Everstorm wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

This again? *snore*

Overland content is aimed so new players can complete it. This is the way it should be.

There is an enormous amount of overland content. More than enough to no longer be considered a new player long before you finish it all. So why make more kindergartens? Why should the bulk of Murkmire be aimed at new players?

Most people will reach CP levels by the time they get to Coldharbour, and yet every other zone in the game is still a tutorial zone.

If they don't introduce an optional debuff, I'd like to see more zones like Craglorn, which feature challenging quest hubs (like Shada's Tear, Skyreach Catacombs, etc.) and group delves,in addition to faceroll easy content. They even have those random rifts in Craglorn that you can activate to spawn some challenging overland mobs and a boss.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Optional hardmode? Sure go for it, as long as those players get zero added rewards. No need for bonus rewards if what you seek is a greater challenge, but we know that's not the whole story. Added rewards such as higher tier gear makes no sense, making one even more powerful goes against the very reason for a hardmode.

I suspect this is the real reason players don't won't to gimp themselves, because it's really not just about experiencing harder content, but getting additional rewards to flaunt over the rest of the peons.

I have several toons gimped and it definitely makes a difference in difficulty. No reason for Zos to do what can already be done by those actually seeking a challenge.

No. Gimping yourself blocks you from experiencing character customization, which is a core component of role playing games. Otherwise, we might as well all be playing template characters with set stats and gear.

My gimped toons are completely customized, the only difference is they don't hit as hard and take a ton of more damage making me actually have to focus on combat unlike when I play my all powerful toons where I can spam skills nonstop due to the excessive amount of regen provided by cp. It's the reason I play non-cp cyro and love BG's, I'm not being held up by the crutch so many love that is cp.

I didn't spend ages making my toons powerful so I could fight overland mobs, I made them powerful so I could actually participate in the endgame content designed for vets, pvp/dungeon/trials and soloing WB's. I like face rolling overland, it's the only place one truly can play as they want without some pug questioning why I'm rocking a 2hder instead of the cookie cutter spin to win dw/bow builds that has been shoved down our throats for years.

Pvper's make up 15%(I'm being generous, it's really 13.2%) and by my observation vet players make up about 25% with quite a few of them still struggling to pull 10k dps. If overland makes up around 60% of the game then I'd have to say it's balanced quite well, and that's from someone who also finds overland a faceroll. Even if it's 70% it's still pretty balanced to me. I see way more low levels than players in my range, and I'm currently sitting at 810cp.

Gold is so easy to make switching cp around constantly should be a non issue and there are 8 free slots enabling one to have a toon for every occasion, I know I do. Again though, I'm not opposed to an optional hard mode, provided there is zero added rewards except maybe gold or a title, definitely no gear though.

Been asking for this since 1t

Yes, imho the feeling from the beginning of the game, when you hardely could kill on-land npc`s where the most fun times.

I am all for an improved game difficulty mode, where normal overland npc`s hit harder and elite mobs are a serious fight.

Although I agree that easy content is unfulfilling, I think there is another factor to take into account and that is time..

Sometimes when you are levelling alts you just want to speed run through content such as Mages guild and Undaunted dailies, as well as get to delve sky shards etc. Having to stop and fight numerous hard mode NPCs etc could be considered tedious.

Just a thought..

Sevn wrote: »

I suspect this is the real reason players don't won't to gimp themselves, because it's really not just about experiencing harder content, but getting additional rewards to flaunt over the rest of the peons.

Every one of these "content is too easy" threads attracts people that feel compelled to translate what the OP really wants/means when he says that content is too easy.

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

And of course references to Craglorn as if everything that was wrong with ESO during that time was due to Craglorn's "difficulty".

[sarcasm]
Grinding VR on multiple characters? That's a Craglorn difficulty issue.
Gear refreshes every couple months with VR increase? Also a Craglorn difficulty issue, obviously.
Worthless sets, Cadwell's quests taking too long to unlock the world, and VRs separating players too much? You thought it was solved with 1T scaling/non-faction-locked-world/redesigning sets and spreading them across the world... nope, it's better because they nerfed Craglorn lol.
[/sarcasm]

ESO was a different game with different issues during the "craglorn is end-game" days. If Craglorn had been ez pz and all of the other issues mentioned remained do you think Craglorn (and ESO for that matter) would have been hopping with the activity that 1T brought?

Kolache wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I suspect this is the real reason players don't won't to gimp themselves, because it's really not just about experiencing harder content, but getting additional rewards to flaunt over the rest of the peons.

Every one of these "content is too easy" threads attracts people that feel compelled to translate what the OP really wants/means when he says that content is too easy.

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

And of course references to Craglorn as if everything that was wrong with ESO during that time was due to Craglorn's "difficulty".

[sarcasm]
Grinding VR on multiple characters? That's a Craglorn difficulty issue.
Gear refreshes every couple months with VR increase? Also a Craglorn difficulty issue, obviously.
Worthless sets, Cadwell's quests taking too long to unlock the world, and VRs separating players too much? You thought it was solved with 1T scaling/non-faction-locked-world/redesigning sets and spreading them across the world... nope, it's better because they nerfed Craglorn lol.
[/sarcasm]

ESO was a different game with different issues during the "craglorn is end-game" days. If Craglorn had been ez pz and all of the other issues mentioned remained do you think Craglorn (and ESO for that matter) would have been hopping with the activity that 1T brought?

Quite easy when every one of these requests for harder overland is almost immediately followed by asking to be rewarded for doing it.

I've yet to see one these threads not asked to be rewarded with extra goodies as a motivator. Either you want more challenging content for the sake of overcoming said content or are you only interested in doing more challenging content if you will be rewarded better than others for doing so?

I've been gimping myself for quite a while and my reward is knowing that I'm pretty damn good at the game. That's enough for me and I would think for anyone actually seeking a challenge.

Old Vet Craglorn was incredibly fun, I met a lot of people back in the day doing Vet instance content. What people hate and mix up is the hate for the old levelling grind, that was indeed gruelling.

Now we just have easy mode for any overland and it isn’t fun. If you say take off your gear or remove CP it doesn’t matter it is still a cake walk due to the mechanics of fights being so simplistic.

There is literally no reason to not give us a Vet instance for DLC at the very least. It doesn’t divide players at all. Just add a zone chat that covers all instances (not sure if it does atm). Make the rewards the same, the challenge to me is the reward.

Other MMOs have solved this issue with difficulty based instances for all content and it works. People are just quick to shoot down something they don’t like.

The main thing I see that causes Vet players to leave ESO is the lack of variety in Vet content. Running Vet Dungeons and Trials over and over isn’t everyone’s cup of yea as it were.

It’s a polite request and I wish people would be civil enough to let it be heard, Vet players are not a minority...everyone will reach that point eventually.

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Old Vet Craglorn was incredibly fun, I met a lot of people back in the day doing Vet instance content. What people hate and mix up is the hate for the old levelling grind, that was indeed gruelling.

No, actually, I dislike being forced, effectively, to group up for overland content. Its hard to coordinate schedules with my IRL friends to do those quests, and I don't enjoy asking random players from zone for my guilds to quest with me. The end result is that I don't do the Craglorn quests but once in a blue moon when our schedules match up or I get the urge to solo group content again.

I mean, I'm glad you enjoyed it. But I'm not mixing up a dislike for the leveling grind with why I don't do Craglorn much these days, thanks.

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Now we just have easy mode for any overland and it isn’t fun. If you say take off your gear or remove CP it doesn’t matter it is still a cake walk due to the mechanics of fights being so simplistic.

There is literally no reason to not give us a Vet instance for DLC at the very least. It doesn’t divide players at all. Just add a zone chat that covers all instances (not sure if it does atm). Make the rewards the same, the challenge to me is the reward.

The primary reason to not make a Vet Instance is $$$$. The second reason is time.

You want a vet instance? You have to convince the devs there's enough $$$$ there to make it worth the time to implement with non-simplistic mechanics and the on-going time to fix and balance that Vet Instance on top of the regular instance they already made.

Its that simple, really. If all you want is a simplistic slider or buffed enemies, just debuff yourself. But if you want something a little more interesting, like revamped mechanics or a proper Vet Instance or greater rewards, whatever, you have to convince ZOS there's enough $$$$ there to make it worth their time and effort.

I strongly suspect that ZOS has already figured out that the best profit return on making normal/vet instances for regular and vet players is to release those Dungeon Pack DLCs.

ADarklore wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

80+% of this game is overland content. I get it that some overland needs to be newbie friendly for the casuals. Do they need 3 full factions worth of content and every new PVE expansion set to EZ? Hell no. If ZOS wants me to continue to buy these PVE laden expansions with full new zones they had better come up with some way to increase the difficulty. I'm not here to sit in front of my screen nightly, drinking a beer, and listening to a story. If I want a good story I read a book. I log in for adventure and a bit of excitement. Hitting 2 or 3 abilities and melting the final quest boss, Duke or Plaguetown, before he gets more than 1 hit off is not immersive in any shape or form.

In my opinion the only way they can solve this ez overland and questing issue for veteran players is to make delves, public dungeons, and any other instanced area offer different difficulties prior to zoning in.

ZOS has determined that the value of a new player is greater than the value of a recurring subscriber. That's a pretty dangerous strategy that might not be as profitable long term, though.

Well, from a business perspective, new players NEED stuff, while veteran players typically already have everything they will need- so they're not a constant source of new revenue like new players. ESO+ is a drop in the bucket compared to purchases made from the Crown store. As far as 'long term'... I hear complaining but I see very few players actually LEAVING. Where would they go? The only threat to ESO would be a new MMO that is along the same genre... most players aren't going to leave ESO to play a FPS type game. Plus, since the majority of players are questers... they aren't going to leave ESO for an MMO that doesn't offer solo content. Thus, ESO currently has a pretty good lock on the RPG MMO solo market.

they are leaving ESO just feeds of a churn cycle.why do you think they just had a free weekend?