Story Immersion Broken for High End Players

FloppyTouch · August 2018

peppercats wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

wot? You didn't serious, right? )
Do you know how many HP points have that big Mantikora boss from Craglorn main quest? 70K. It has bloody 70k HP !

Craglorn main quest line is actually easiest in the game (besides that daily quests).

They've nerfed Craglorn I think in One Tamriel. Pre-nerfed you are forced to group for the main quest in Craglorn, and even worst, you need to be on the same quest in the chain in order to help each other. Even over land mobs were "dungeon" level (Northen Crag). Craglorn back then was empty except for Belkarth where people semi afk waiting to port into trials and Nirn farmers. Imperial City also a "harder zone" cause it's mix between pvp and pve, and see how that turn out. ZoS learned from these mistake.

Nobody is asking for group content, I'm not sure where people are getting this idea from.

Yh craglorn didnt need a nerf to mobs it was the force grouping that made it a fail. I miss the hard world bosses and those wasp

Everstorm · August 2018

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

You do understand that a difficulty somewhere in between old school craglorn and the current quest content is also an option, right?

Ragebull · August 2018

I would LOVE harder quests, more challenging enemies and mobs throughout Tamriel? Nah. Harder quests? Absolutely.

Really I just want harder quests to give me something else to do solo since I don’t like the pve community and you never know when Cyro is gonna become unplayable.

Mr_Walker · August 2018

Dorjee wrote: »

And yes. Before you start. I know I can make things more challenging by not allocating my CP, play naked or do some other content. But why should I have to?

So instead of resolving the problem yourself, in an easy and effective manner, you expect the game to be redesigned around your wants/desires?

Drako_Ei · August 2018

They should make it that if you have veteran mode activated, you get a debuff that makes you take 500% more damage, and deal 500% less damage while questing

Dosuul · August 2018

Our characters have already beaten almost godlike creatures in the game, why should they suddenly become super weak, when a new expansion hits?

A switch to lets say enable veteran mode for delves and public dungeons is something that sounds nice and maybe worth a look, anything else shouldn't be changed.

Ragebull · August 2018

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Dorjee wrote: »

And yes. Before you start. I know I can make things more challenging by not allocating my CP, play naked or do some other content. But why should I have to?

So instead of resolving the problem yourself, in an easy and effective manner, you expect the game to be redesigned around your wants/desires?

Easy and effective? More like ridiculous and illogical

People who suggest that are just the worst, it seems like trolling at this point. Just stop talking

Also, derp de derp they don’t have to redesign the whole game, just add more challenging stuff in the future. Not that hard

Dorjee · August 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

The answer to this problem, as always, is UNDAUNTED MEAD:

The undaunted quartermaster at each enclave should sell a drink that removes all CP effects and increases damage taken by 50% while in overland zones. Each additional mead consumed increases damage taken by a further 50%. Drink as many as you like, and your max health, magicka and stamina will be increased by a big fat zero. All monsters killed while under the influence of Undaunted Mead drop more gold, and any mobs that drop set items have a chance to drop two items instead of one.

1000+CP with 50k DPS? No problem! Grab some mead and get questing!

It's just no fun to gimp yourself as a workaround to the easiness of the story content. An increase in difficulty must be built into the story itself. I could imagine receiving a letter from Maj when you reach CP cap, explaining how mundane foes like wolves and bandits must be getting incredibly dull for you now that you have braved so many dangers, and that those who are truly undaunted often find great pleasure in chugging down a mug of her special brew before hitting the road...

I’ve seen some really good ideas in this thread. And I think I like the sound of the above one the best (or anything similar).

If something like this was implemented then all those that don’t want to see any negative impact to One Tamriel; say high end players should play naked/no CP for more challenge; and say vet dungeons and trials are for high end players (not story/overland content) - would be kept happy, as the above idea would have no impact on these players. Further, and perhaps more importantly, such an implementation would have no impact on new players either. In fact, with this idea, high end players who don’t want to re-roll but, want to help players who have just started, will be able to do so and feel challenged (meaning have more fun) at the same time.

By implementing this idea for all those like me who think story immersion is broken for high end players; and that we shouldn’t have to artificially gimp ourselves to find story/overland content challenging - would also be happy. At least the mead idea is somewhat story and immersion friendly.

If something like this was implemented I’d probably even go back to do some of the side quests I missed whilst levelling.

Feanor · August 2018

As for old Craglorn, difficulty wasn’t the issue. The issue was you needed a group for everything.

Everstorm · August 2018

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Dorjee wrote: »

And yes. Before you start. I know I can make things more challenging by not allocating my CP, play naked or do some other content. But why should I have to?

So instead of resolving the problem yourself, in an easy and effective manner, you expect the game to be redesigned around your wants/desires?

Character progression has been a staple of rpgs since their conception. Telling us to simply not use that aspect of the game is nonsense. For me this is the very centre of my enjoyment of the game.

MaleAmazon · August 2018

Same thread as before - though I do think this needs repeating until this gets fixed since it is the single biggest ESO problem at the moment IMO, and it will just. Get. Worse.

I´ll say the same thing I´ve said ten times before, but I´ll try to add something constructive:

First of all; there is an overarching storyline in ESO:

Harborage Main Quest + Alliance questline, Morrowind + Clockwork + Summerset questlines (which are connected, just you might not notice since many ppl blow through them in 5 minutes because of exactly what the OP is referring to).

In addition, there are tons of side quests, you have the dungeons which have quests, and we will get more chapters with additional quests.

In this environment, your character just gets stronger and stronger. You have sets, better quality equipment, rewards for just logging in (ffs!), XP events, yada yada.

Essentially; without trying, you will be a demigod before having played through the story.

This will get worse since new content will (and should) be released so new players can jump right into it, meaning that old players will make mincemeat of any monsters in nanoseconds, unless stats are altered in some way.

The reason some people think the game is so hard, is probably often that they simply haven´t encountered any difficulty, and so when it appears, like in DLC dungeons when you cannot bypass mechanics, and you have to listen to the 'NPC boss advisors', they don´t know what to do. Now yes, some mechanics are hard to understand (avoiding overlapping red circles like in Cernunnon comes to mind), but a lot of people don´t even seem to try.

Some people appear to go into vet dungeons while not knowing what an interrupt even is, and so they think the game is "difficult enough" because "spiders eat corpses and regenerate", not knowing that "red sparks = you should interrupt" (authentic example, not sure if the person was trolling).

Some people think the DLC dungeons are super difficult, well no wonder if you run around hitting stuff with random skills and attacks while completely ignoring the NPC repeatedly telling you "YOU MUST KILL THE SPRIGGANS!!! YOU MUST ATTACK THE SPRIGGANS!!! THE SPRIGGANS HEAL THE BOSS, FIGHT THEM!!!!!!".

In part this is a design flaw since the game basically introduces you to the fundamental mechanics in a tutorial, then doesn´t require you to ever use them until you are lvl CP500.

Now I´m sure some people have legitimate complaints like they don´t understand english, but really... the game cannot be designed around them.

As for the solution, it has been given by me and others. Create a sensible veteran mode that works in a similar fashion to the Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil; a constant effect that debuffs your character (and gives some extra reward imo) so that you at least encounter some resistance and makes playing 'solo story mode' at least more rewarding.

profundidob16_ESO · August 2018

OP is right. It is beyond ridiculous how the 'might end bosses' created in all their visual and audio awesomeness by the art team turn out to be total sissies who's heavy attacks feel like kiss on the cheek and die in 3 hits ! =P

I'll name the game World of Warcraft in this context because again it serves as an example we can really learn from. This issue was tackled 10 years ago there and the way they brilliantly solved it was:

1. You get quest chain starters in super easy overland content
2. You work the chain of quests where completing them opens up more of those quests and they become a bit harder but still doable for a good player or good gear char (and easy for those that have both). If you really suck with bad gera and really low dps you will die here and be challenged.
3. The final quest requires you to go kill a specific boss and gather some stuff in what would be considered a veteran dungeon in ESO. Basically a group dungeon that cannot be completed without all roles being present. It cannot be soloed and is not intended to. And then as final reward you get 1 piece of purple gear.

So there is progression in questing difficulty level from "too easy to even mention" until "cannot complete solo". The rewards scaled accordingly and so did the immersion curve. The first mobs felt trivial but when the final quest pops up you can really feel that you are about to kill a mighty tough end boss and it matches the experience.

Perhaps the content design team finds this interesting to learn from

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Dorjee wrote: »

Had a break from ESO. Came back to play Summerset. Although I’m currently finding the story very compelling - unfortunately, the easiness of the overland content is completely immersion breaking, in my opinion.

For example, take any quest from the game. It nicely builds up a particular threat to Tamriel you need to get rid of, you hear the great back story, you do X Y and Z to prepare, but then - you end up killing this hugely built up threat in a couple of hits if you’re a semi high end player.

And yes. Before you start. I know I can make things more challenging by not allocating my CP, play naked or do some other content. But why should I have to?

Every time a new Chapter or Zone DLC comes out, it feels as if the only way I can properly immerse myself with the story aspect is to start a new character. I think this is a bit unfair. Why can’t I use my main character to enjoy the newly released story?

I don’t know any other MMO where the player can simply blast through any new story content if they have a semi high end character.

I just feel as if this is a big shame because the story that comes with each new content release - I feel - is always so interesting and immersive but, these feelings quickly fade because of the easiness of the content.

To say new story content isn’t meant to be challenging for high end players - only trials and vet dungeons etc. - isn’t fair. Especially bearing in mind that Elder Scrolls games are known for being heavily story driven.

I know the positive reasons as to why the overland/story content is easy - because of One Tamriel etc. But, surely there can be some new story content that can be released just for high end players? For example, some form of new reworked Adventure Zone? I’m sure whatever was released for high end players only wouldn’t dissuade new players from starting the game.

Lastly, with CP constantly being increased but story/overland content never getting any harder - surely this will break aforementioned content eventually? As players will just be way too powerful in the future.

ff14, also iirc new players with summerset start in summerset like in morrowind, if you have morrowind you start in morrowind. story needs to be completed at any time.

i played ff11 and ff14 and neither had hard story content. story is meant for everyone the harder content is the end game stuff like hardcore dungeons, and big boss fights.

mocap · August 2018

make Norm/Vet toggle affect EVERYTHING. I know this would be kinda fallback to pre OT update, but it could possibly solve current BS questing.

Everstorm · August 2018

peppercats wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Sorry, they tried vet overland it was called Craglorn.

wot? You didn't serious, right? )
Do you know how many HP points have that big Mantikora boss from Craglorn main quest? 70K. It has bloody 70k HP !

Craglorn main quest line is actually easiest in the game (besides that daily quests).

They've nerfed Craglorn I think in One Tamriel. Pre-nerfed you are forced to group for the main quest in Craglorn, and even worst, you need to be on the same quest in the chain in order to help each other. Even over land mobs were "dungeon" level (Northen Crag). Craglorn back then was empty except for Belkarth where people semi afk waiting to port into trials and Nirn farmers. Imperial City also a "harder zone" cause it's mix between pvp and pve, and see how that turn out. ZoS learned from these mistake.

Nobody is asking for group content, I'm not sure where people are getting this idea from.

Stuck in their "but Craglorn failed" narrative.

jcm2606 · August 2018

The best way to tackle this, which is an extension to the suggestion @LioraValkyrie gave, is to implement a status effect that adjusts several behind-the-scenes stats when the player is in overland zones. The status effect would adjust stats such as damage dealt, damage taken and healing to fine tune the experience based on a selected difficulty setting. It could also adjust the drops from mobs, maybe even rewards from quests, to scale the rewards to the new difficulty. If the difficulty is increased, have mobs drop more gold, give more experience, increase the likelihood of dropping desirable items (trash mobs have a higher chance to drop set pieces, boss drops are weighted towards more desirable traits or qualities). If the difficulty is reduced, do the opposite.

The benefit of this over the Undaunted Mead suggestion is this allows more fine tuning of the difficulty, and opens this to all players, even newer ones who find the game too difficult (though this comes at a cost). This, like the Undaunted Mead suggestion, wouldn't affect other players directly, and barely affects other players indirectly (the most is having somebody with a lower difficulty be able to help somebody with a higher difficulty).

There already exists a status effect like this: Battle Spirit. Battle Spirit is only applied while in PVP zones such as Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds and Imperial City (both Sewers and Districts), and adjusts several stats to balance PVP without affecting PVP. Namely, it increases your max health by 5000, reduces the damage you deal by 50%, reduces the effectiveness of healing and damage shields by 50%, and increases the range of long range abilities (range > 28 meters) by 8 meters.

Battle Spirit proves that something like this is possible, and, in my opinion, this is the best way to tackle the problem that is overworld being far too easy for veteran players.

Aesthier · August 2018

idk · August 2018

Dorjee wrote: »

Had a break from ESO. Came back to play Summerset. Although I’m currently finding the story very compelling - unfortunately, the easiness of the overland content is completely immersion breaking, in my opinion.

High end players, as you put it in your title, get their challenge from PvP and HM trials. The story line quests could never give them a challenge while still being playable to the bulk of the game.

I have stated before that Zos will not make any meaningful change to the difficulty of overland content. It is part of their the tiered difficulty level this and most MMORPGs being made these days are designed.

Below is essentially the tiered difficulty level per content type from easiest to more difficult.

Overworld
delves
normal dungeons
world bosses
vet dungeons
normal trials
vet DLC dungeons
vet trials
vet HM trials

Not arguing with OP. Just stating how it is designed that that this will not be changing in a meaningful manner.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

It's the same lack of balance present everywhere. You have quest bosses that fall over when you breathe on them. You have a handful of WB's that are still overtuned, even at cap, and you have very little in between. (The two tiger boss in Grahtwood or Greenshade) with the BS fear/charge combo being a prime example.) You have the occasional trash add that can one-shot.

Scaling, by itself (at least in its current form) does not remedy this.

There are players breaking 40k/50k/60k solo (which is absurd and unnecessary, sorry) and there are other players having trouble still breaking 20k/30k, and new players that won't crack 15k on an outstanding day.

Tack on gear variance and CP's and, per usual, there is exactly zero mid-tier content.

casparian · August 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Upgrading quests will cost ZOS money, and I'm not sure there's a big enough market there for their effort.

It all depends on how the change is marketed. "New harder overland!" may not have mass appeal (though I think it would have more appeal than many assume), but presumably that's not the way ZOS would pitch the change. I would expect the marketing to be more like

- "revamped open world"
- "experience one Tamriel like never before"
- "seek new adventure and new rewards in the wilds of Tamriel"
- "only the bravest adventurers will be able to help the citizens of Tamriel in their hour of need -- and be richly rewarded for their efforts"
etc.

All ZOS has to do is pitch the idea of a refreshed, revamped, newly rewarding open world and people will flock to it.

TheShadowScout · August 2018

Dorjee wrote: »

...you end up killing this hugely built up threat in a couple of hits if you’re a semi high end player.

So?
Working as intended.
What else did you expect to happen if a Planemeld breaking, Molag Bal spanking, world saving, mega-monster slaying super-duper hero comes to save the day?
I mean, high end characters in overland are a little bit like... Superman doing Batmans job of dealing with everyday organized crime. Total Overkill, yes, but immersive - that's what is gonna happen when a big hero stomps normal threats, right?

Immersion aside, yeah, we all know, it is a tad boring, but we also realize they had to balance the overland content for noobs ever since "One Tamriel", and not for vets. And we can always take a side trip soloing a public dungeon, right?

All that said...

...it -would- be a good thing if they added more "mechanics" to bossfights instead of merely making them more fighty... just my opinion there... but I would like more battles where you cannot just push through with higherpower, but have to think a little...

mocap wrote: »

Craglorn main quest line is actually easiest in the game (besides that daily quests).

Should have tried it before One Tamriel!
Back then, ALL of craglorn was balanced for groups, much like most of the lower craglorn dwelves still are, and many a V12 player has died to the first wasp nest they ran into before realizing this... but it -was- a good place to train, see how your build stood up to a hefty threat and all that. Some of the better players did sharpen their skills soloing craglorn dwelves as I recall...
Still, that one was balanced for four people, dungeon-style. Not exactly what is the topic here...

But with One Tamriel, we can hardly expect things to change, yes? They gain from the "every level can go everywhere without getting stomped into the ground by increased base difficulty" thing, so they won't want to change that.

...

Although, they -could- add a "handicap" if they choose to, some character setting thing where you can play at a reduced power rate, but gain increased rewards perhaps? Set slider to 90%, 75%, 50% of your total character attack power, and gain a higher chance for nifty drops while handicapped this way?

VaranisArano · August 2018

casparian wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Upgrading quests will cost ZOS money, and I'm not sure there's a big enough market there for their effort.

It all depends on how the change is marketed. "New harder overland!" may not have mass appeal (though I think it would have more appeal than many assume), but presumably that's not the way ZOS would pitch the change. I would expect the marketing to be more like

- "revamped open world"
- "experience one Tamriel like never before"
- "seek new adventure and new rewards in the wilds of Tamriel"
- "only the bravest adventurers will be able to help the citizens of Tamriel in their hour of need -- and be richly rewarded for their efforts"
etc.

All ZOS has to do is pitch the idea of a refreshed, revamped, newly rewarding open world and people will flock to it.

The joys of marketing.

Personally, I suspect that ZOS prefers to churn out new DLC dungeons and trials to satisfy the end game crowd, which at least lets them claim to be adding new content.

Adernath · August 2018

The reason is that too many players who prefer a challenge left and those who remain (also on the forum) want a boring overland experience and a starter zone in every part of Tamriel. The hurdle is currently 2 feet high and everyone can jump over it and feel great. This is the simple explanation.

Along with One Tamriel we had:
1) A change in the leveling (CP increase every new DLC)
2) People from all alliances being able to interact together.
3) Easier difficulty everywhere by dropping veteran leveled overland content.

These are three *different* things. And the number 1) just does not make sense if the overland content, as being the main bulk of the game, remains always on the same level of difficulty.

People criticize this again and again and what response pops up?

1) Gimp yourself
2) Play veteran dungeons
3) But we had Craglorn which was such fail and 1T changed all to the good.
4) Newbies die and find it hard already.

And the response:

1) Nice joke. Why even play the game anyways? Why do I bother farming gear? I could have just play naked or not? No sorry, I want to get a feeling of accomplishment by mastering a specific thing with my acquired gear and experience I have learned over the time I played the game. And a feeling of accomplishment inevitable implies that some people might fail in doing that.
2) There is simply not enough solo veteran content. The main bulk is the overland content and some areas should be easy, while others should be harder. I don't always want to play in a group.
3) Most of us want veteran solo overland content. Craglorn was vet group at some point. Also the changes which came along with 1T were threefold. An intelligent adjustment of the power creep and the difficulty would make everyone happy, the beginner and the veteran in my opinion. At this state most veteran players are more or less bored with what we have. So let's make 2T, One for beginners and the other one for veterans.
4) No one forces them to leave an easy starter zone immediately. The original quests are still there and guide the player to these zones. Also, in 1-2 weeks they are getting used to the game. Third: many people also die from lag/timeouts. Fourth there could be a simple warning for the (new) player that he entered a more difficult zone.

Increasing the CP further and further and not adjusting the game's difficulty in new overland zones but instead turning them into yet another starter zone is just ridiculous, indeed.

An easy option to fix this dilemma could be to have the option to run the game in a no-cp world with better rewards: Better quality of items, more gold and experience and more loot.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

This is the bad thing about MMO'S. There Is no difficulty slider and if we make it too difficult the majority of players will not be able to enjoy the content as ESO questing is intended to be completed at any lvl. You can artificially make the game harder for yourself by gimmicking yourself from your hard earned gear but at the end the ratio of end game to casual players are is uneven and it wouldn't be beneficial to ZOS to come back and change it. End game players can enjoy dlc dungeons and trials intended for them but overland quest battles such as fighting off a Daedric Prince will be underwhelming for those of us seeking a challenge.

I wouldn't mind ZOS giving us a Arena that isn't held back by trivial quest difficulty where we can replay quest battles in VMA style difficulty because killing a big bad in two heavy attacks is immersion breaking.

it really has to do with the design of the game , Tam one and the Linear progression they chose to attract the churn player.

WacArnold · August 2018

I find it more immersive when overland is easy because i have worked hard to become strong. I should be able to take down a zombie by flicking it. If it was hard it would make no sense, i mean i killed molag bal but this zombie is holding its own? I can get into the game more at seeing how strong i have become, it takes a real threat to give me a challenge, not some chump bandit gang i would smash in an instant. The fact i can gauge my power between overland, dungeons, and trials is more immersive than chump bandits zombies and bears giving me a challenge.

LioraValkyrie · August 2018

idk wrote: »

Dorjee wrote: »

Had a break from ESO. Came back to play Summerset. Although I’m currently finding the story very compelling - unfortunately, the easiness of the overland content is completely immersion breaking, in my opinion.

High end players, as you put it in your title, get their challenge from PvP and HM trials. The story line quests could never give them a challenge while still being playable to the bulk of the game.

I have stated before that Zos will not make any meaningful change to the difficulty of overland content. It is part of their the tiered difficulty level this and most MMORPGs being made these days are designed.

Below is essentially the tiered difficulty level per content type from easiest to more difficult.

Overworld
delves
normal dungeons
world bosses
vet dungeons
normal trials
vet DLC dungeons
vet trials
vet HM trials

Not arguing with OP. Just stating how it is designed that that this will not be changing in a meaningful manner.

I'm sure this is how the devs approach the issue as well, but the problem with this way of thinking is that it progressively cuts off more and more content from the player as he or she levels up. There is way too much story content to complete before your character becomes totally OP and it no longer offers any challenge, and therefore no immersion or real engagement.

I have soloed vet DLC dungeons and am considered by some to be an authority on my class, but have never completed Cadwell's Gold, or Wrothgar, or Clockwork City, or Summerset, because the story content is trivially easy. I'm not asking for this content to have complex mechanics, and the overland bosses to have 10m health, just that they hit hard enough to keep me awake, and stay alive long enough to hit me.

The vast majority of content in ESO is overland story content, whereas the vast majority of time spent playing is as a 'high end' player. Having nothing to offer challenge- and therefore engagement- except DLChm trials restricts you to literally 4 instances, which quickly become dull whether you complete them or not if this is all that is available to challenge you, in the otherwise vast and beautiful world that is ESO.

Another issue with restricting challenge to DLChm trials for the 'high end' player is the fact that the difference between success and failure lies in finding a committed group to practice with, which is more an exercise in politics and project management than gaming. Personally, I have most fun when I play with a maximum of 3 other people, and I know for a fact that I'm not alone in this.

Zardayne · August 2018

80+% of this game is overland content. I get it that some overland needs to be newbie friendly for the casuals. Do they need 3 full factions worth of content and every new PVE expansion set to EZ? Hell no. If ZOS wants me to continue to buy these PVE laden expansions with full new zones they had better come up with some way to increase the difficulty. I'm not here to sit in front of my screen nightly, drinking a beer, and listening to a story. If I want a good story I read a book. I log in for adventure and a bit of excitement. Hitting 2 or 3 abilities and melting the final quest boss, Duke or Plaguetown, before he gets more than 1 hit off is not immersive in any shape or form.

In my opinion the only way they can solve this ez overland and questing issue for veteran players is to make delves, public dungeons, and any other instanced area offer different difficulties prior to zoning in.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2018

WacArnold wrote: »

I find it more immersive when overland is easy because i have worked hard to become strong. I should be able to take down a zombie by flicking it. If it was hard it would make no sense, i mean i killed molag bal but this zombie is holding its own? I can get into the game more at seeing how strong i have become, it takes a real threat to give me a challenge, not some chump bandit gang i would smash in an instant. The fact i can gauge my power between overland, dungeons, and trials is more immersive than chump bandits zombies and bears giving me a challenge.

in most vertical progression games they dont make that mistake when new overland questing content is introduced .either lvls are raised or a new Layer of AA is implemented . Most developers would not make the mistake of releasing new content with "you were killed by a lvl 99 rat" that went the way of the dodo in EQ1. I dont think anyone disagrees that your sentiments are valid. but when a new zone is released and the lvl 35 in full blue crafted gear is melting cultists at the same rate as 690 cp in full trial gear he golded that took months of dedication to achieve, it could be Tam one was not in all of the populations best interest. Tam one was an effort to appease the churn player and cut cost of development, but it removed the soul of the game in the process

VaranisArano · August 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

I find it more immersive when overland is easy because i have worked hard to become strong. I should be able to take down a zombie by flicking it. If it was hard it would make no sense, i mean i killed molag bal but this zombie is holding its own? I can get into the game more at seeing how strong i have become, it takes a real threat to give me a challenge, not some chump bandit gang i would smash in an instant. The fact i can gauge my power between overland, dungeons, and trials is more immersive than chump bandits zombies and bears giving me a challenge.

in most vertical progression games they dont make that mistake when new overland questing content is introduced .either lvls are raised or a new Layer of AA is implemented . Most developers would not make the mistake of releasing new content with "you were killed by a lvl 99 rat" that went the way of the dodo in EQ1. I dont think anyone disagrees that your sentiments are valid. but when a new zone is released and the lvl 35 in full blue crafted gear is melting cultists at the same rate as 690 cp in full trial gear he golded that took months of dedication to achieve, it could be Tam one was not in all of the populations best interest. Tam one was an effort to appease the churn player and cut cost of development, but it removed the soul of the game in the process

I dunno. I didn't consider the pre-One Tamriel "railroad you into quests at exactly your level and use an artificial miss chance to punish you for trying anything higher, oh and going back to past zones is worthless" to be the soul of the game.

Sure, I appreciated the character growth. You really did grow in power when you leveled and lower level content was a curbstombing. But it came with the price of being railroaded.

Now, I really can play whatever I want whenever I want, no railroad. The only price is that my dungeon ready DPS hits overland content like a truck. Which isnt a problem for me. I built that character to hit like a truck in dungeons, and darned if it doesn't hit like a truck in lower difficulty content too. Unless I debuff my character to do less damage or ZOS institutes new content on the level of group dungeons for overland content, my character is going to continue to be overbuilt and overgeared for mere questing.

idk · August 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dorjee wrote: »

Had a break from ESO. Came back to play Summerset. Although I’m currently finding the story very compelling - unfortunately, the easiness of the overland content is completely immersion breaking, in my opinion.

High end players, as you put it in your title, get their challenge from PvP and HM trials. The story line quests could never give them a challenge while still being playable to the bulk of the game.

I have stated before that Zos will not make any meaningful change to the difficulty of overland content. It is part of their the tiered difficulty level this and most MMORPGs being made these days are designed.

Below is essentially the tiered difficulty level per content type from easiest to more difficult.

Overworld
delves
normal dungeons
world bosses
vet dungeons
normal trials
vet DLC dungeons
vet trials
vet HM trials

Not arguing with OP. Just stating how it is designed that that this will not be changing in a meaningful manner.

I'm sure this is how the devs approach the issue as well, but the problem with this way of thinking is that it progressively cuts off more and more content from the player as he or she levels up. There is way too much story content to complete before your character becomes totally OP and it no longer offers any challenge, and therefore no immersion or real engagement.

I have soloed vet DLC dungeons and am considered by some to be an authority on my class, but have never completed Cadwell's Gold, or Wrothgar, or Clockwork City, or Summerset, because the story content is trivially easy. I'm not asking for this content to have complex mechanics, and the overland bosses to have 10m health, just that they hit hard enough to keep me awake, and stay alive long enough to hit me.

The vast majority of content in ESO is overland story content, whereas the vast majority of time spent playing is as a 'high end' player. Having nothing to offer challenge- and therefore engagement- except DLChm trials restricts you to literally 4 instances, which quickly become dull whether you complete them or not if this is all that is available to challenge you, in the otherwise vast and beautiful world that is ESO.

Another issue with restricting challenge to DLChm trials for the 'high end' player is the fact that the difference between success and failure lies in finding a committed group to practice with, which is more an exercise in politics and project management than gaming. Personally, I have most fun when I play with a maximum of 3 other people, and I know for a fact that I'm not alone in this.

Glad to see your such a skilled and respected player.

However the first sentence in your post here is incorrect. I clear HM trails and dungeons and have yet to be cut off from any content.

Not arguing with you about how eso is scaled. I just realize that Zos does it intentionally ans by design as most major MMORPGs do. The reasoning behind tha design is exactly why Zos will not increase the difficulty of regular quests.

You see, not everyone soloes DLC dungeons. Zos know that so they give something to everyone. That’s the reality of the situation.