Minimun damage requirement for DPS role in vet dungeons

Oakmontowls_ESO · August 2018

When I do random vets I usually end up healing. I've had runs where I end up soloing the boss since the dps kept dieing and I was doing more damage than them. On the flip side, I've also had runs with dps that are pulling decent dps numbers and the run goes smoothly. As for fake tanks, I have encountered one who got swiftly vote kicked and the dungeon went smoothly (with some rage tells from the fake tank bragging about how good his dps was).

Zacuel · August 2018

This is why I pug in pairs. Kick insurance. We get through our dungeons alright. But there will always be that person who isn't impressed.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

You know what I hate about DDs? I am a DD myself don't get it wrong...
The attitude of DDs is what I hate:
"A tank should block and debuff the boss you know, he should do all of this. And don't forget horn!"
"A healer should heal, provide combat prayer and ofcourse horn!"
"30k dps?! Stop being so arrogant, what is this? Epeen contest? My damage is more than enough!" 30k dps he says! What a tool..."

Why should we not expect tanks,healer,and the other dps to their job?Certainly they expect that of you.

Zacuel · August 2018

As for the whole gender thing... Yikes. But this how posts get derailed and closed.

JinMori · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Here another famous quote of your "DD":
"You're telling me that some DDs can pull off a steady 45k dps on the boss? That's cool and nice, but do they live longer than 12 seconds? You know, I would rather have a 10k dps DD who survives the entire fight than a 45k dps DD who dies within seconds after the pull."

Or this one:
"Meta meta, all you talk about is meta! What? I should go for stamina as a melee DD you say? I play how and what I want! I am roleplaying as a "twilight assassin" who utilizes Daggers and Destruction Staves. By the way, does our tank wear Alkosh? My DPS isn't like it supposed to be..."

Great post.

This is exactly what i also dislike about some dd.

JinMori · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

You can be sure about that your 10k ps dd dies way more often than that guy who is steadily pulling off 40k+ dps

Maybe. On the other hand I've had personal experience with ultra high DPS players who die rather quickly after the pull and spend most of their time berating the rest of the party for not "playing correctly". Meanwhile the fellow with sub-par DPS is still alive and doing much more overall damage than the elitist because he doesn't get blown away by a stiff breeze. Actually, even the healer and the tank are doing more damage. Because they aren't dead.

"Things that never happen"
I'll tell you how it usually goes. Depending on the fight, I pull off 40k~65k singletarget. And whenever we carry a "10k dps" guy through a DLC dungeon, I am busy ressing him half of the fight.

You lose dps by ressing someone who cannot pull their weight.

What i always do is this, if the dps is doing more than 20 k dps, it's worth ressing, otherwise, just ignore, a big percentage of dps cannot even reach 10k, and they always die, they ask for ress.... i say, first don't be a burden, then i might think about ressing you, or why should i waste my time ressing, when you are gonna die in 2 seconds, it''s better for the group to just leave you dead on the floor and carry on, the boss is gonna die faster if i just continue doing dps rather than ressing you, you can say that it's a bit egocentric, but honestly, it's true.

Or at least that;s what i say after the boss is dead if they ask.

Jaraal · August 2018

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please?

Because adding constant damage parse checks on thousands of players won't do a thing to help already sketchy server performance, possibly? And if they're going to go to all the effort to help lazy fishermen determine what kind of bait to use, you know darn well they aren't going to add a performance check to keep casuals from enjoying the "group experience."

TheValkyn · August 2018

There's definitely a learning opportunity in this thread and in the dungeon finder. DPS is lacking but even more frightening is those with high dps expecting to blast through content without paying attention to mechanics. The new dungeons are proving this to be fact that most of our players are disinterested in actually learning the puzzles.

JinMori · August 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Yes there should be a minimum damage level to do high end content.. I'd say 80k minimum..

It did happen sometimes when our cumulative dps was in the 140k+ in a vet group, needless to say, the boss dropped like a fly, the tank and heal didn;t even have the time to do stuff.

With that said, 80k is hyperbole, but 20k per person should be a reasonable standard, it's really not very hard to do, with la only i can get to 6/10 k dps

RouDeR · August 2018

this is why I queue as a tank with ALL of my chars ^^

zaria · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

I disagree. 15K dps is more than enough for most non-dlc vet dungeons if they know most of the mechanics, don’t stand in stupid, plus you have a decent healer and tank.

You're naive, your average PuG gets 15k dps combined, and half of it does the tank. Besides, there is no "more than enough" dps. This mindset is the reason why your average DD is gimping him-/herself around 4k~9k dps at best. Why not aim higher? Why keep yourself that low and tell yourself that's ok? Why not blowing that boss to smithereens?

15K is enough, but more is obvious better. For me I say 20 on dummy for an alt to qualify for vet.
Higher dps not only make the dungeon faster but its less risk of messing up and wipe.
Remember healing on blackheart haven, pretty smooth run, yes a bit slow but no issues, that is until the last boss.
Dps was to low to kill off the spawning skeletons let alone burn the boss.
The two DD left and we got two new and simply burned it HM, then did dungeon again since they needed pledge.

SilverWF · August 2018

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please? In my last dungeon (vWS1) I was doing 47% of the group damage as a Frost Warden Tank, the annoying think i that all want to be a DPS when not all are, the role of a DPS is do damage no kiss the mobs. 10 minutes to kill the second boss. Or at least remove the quiter punishment in this situations.

If tank doing 47% of group damage, then:
1. He is not real tank (like I do on Sorc when Q for random normals, lul)
2. Or his DDs are AFK

Aurielle · August 2018

JinMori wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

You can be sure about that your 10k ps dd dies way more often than that guy who is steadily pulling off 40k+ dps

Maybe. On the other hand I've had personal experience with ultra high DPS players who die rather quickly after the pull and spend most of their time berating the rest of the party for not "playing correctly". Meanwhile the fellow with sub-par DPS is still alive and doing much more overall damage than the elitist because he doesn't get blown away by a stiff breeze. Actually, even the healer and the tank are doing more damage. Because they aren't dead.

"Things that never happen"
I'll tell you how it usually goes. Depending on the fight, I pull off 40k~65k singletarget. And whenever we carry a "10k dps" guy through a DLC dungeon, I am busy ressing him half of the fight.

You lose dps by ressing someone who cannot pull their weight.

What i always do is this, if the dps is doing more than 20 k dps, it's worth ressing, otherwise, just ignore, a big percentage of dps cannot even reach 10k, and they always die, they ask for ress.... i say, first don't be a burden, then i might think about ressing you, or why should i waste my time ressing, when you are gonna die in 2 seconds, it''s better for the group to just leave you dead on the floor and carry on, the boss is gonna die faster if i just continue doing dps rather than ressing you, you can say that it's a bit egocentric, but honestly, it's true.

Or at least that;s what i say after the boss is dead if they ask.

You’ve just reminded me of a particularly bad Darkshade 2 pug run... My tank, who pulled about 8k DPS, was doing the bulk of the damage on the Engine Guardian. The two DDs and healer kept dropping like flies during the poison phase. I rezzed them a few times and they died almost instantly when they got up, so I stopped rezzing them. One started complaining, and I politely informed him that rezzing them was a DPS loss (keep in mind that while I was typing this, my health barely budged). The DD who was salty that I wasn’t rezzing him continued to whine, so I said something like “fine, I’ll rez you, but you’re just going to die...” And sure enough, two seconds after I rezzed him, he died for about the tenth time and immediately rage-quit. I finished the boss solo on my tank who, again, did about 8k DPS.

I basically don’t run PVE content anymore, as the PVE guilds I was in had Discord requirements that irritated me a little, and pugs are generally atrocious. I only PVE now if there’s a helm I want, or a gear set I want to grind for a PVP character. My argonian DK tank is now an orc scroll runner/Barrier-bot, because I got so tired of dealing with terrible damage dealers. I’m gradually going to turn all of my characters into PVP characters, because PVE is so miserable most of the time.

JinMori · August 2018

Aurielle wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

You can be sure about that your 10k ps dd dies way more often than that guy who is steadily pulling off 40k+ dps

Maybe. On the other hand I've had personal experience with ultra high DPS players who die rather quickly after the pull and spend most of their time berating the rest of the party for not "playing correctly". Meanwhile the fellow with sub-par DPS is still alive and doing much more overall damage than the elitist because he doesn't get blown away by a stiff breeze. Actually, even the healer and the tank are doing more damage. Because they aren't dead.

"Things that never happen"
I'll tell you how it usually goes. Depending on the fight, I pull off 40k~65k singletarget. And whenever we carry a "10k dps" guy through a DLC dungeon, I am busy ressing him half of the fight.

You lose dps by ressing someone who cannot pull their weight.

What i always do is this, if the dps is doing more than 20 k dps, it's worth ressing, otherwise, just ignore, a big percentage of dps cannot even reach 10k, and they always die, they ask for ress.... i say, first don't be a burden, then i might think about ressing you, or why should i waste my time ressing, when you are gonna die in 2 seconds, it''s better for the group to just leave you dead on the floor and carry on, the boss is gonna die faster if i just continue doing dps rather than ressing you, you can say that it's a bit egocentric, but honestly, it's true.

Or at least that;s what i say after the boss is dead if they ask.

You’ve just reminded me of a particularly bad Darkshade 2 pug run... My tank, who pulled about 8k DPS, was doing the bulk of the damage on the Engine Guardian. The two DDs and healer kept dropping like flies during the poison phase. I rezzed them a few times and they died almost instantly when they got up, so I stopped rezzing them. One started complaining, and I politely informed him that rezzing them was a DPS loss (keep in mind that while I was typing this, my health barely budged). The DD who was salty that I wasn’t rezzing him continued to whine, so I said something like “fine, I’ll rez you, but you’re just going to die...” And sure enough, two seconds after I rezzed him, he died for about the tenth time and immediately rage-quit. I finished the boss solo on my tank who, again, did about 8k DPS.

I basically don’t run PVE content anymore, as the PVE guilds I was in had Discord requirements that irritated me a little, and pugs are generally atrocious. I only PVE now if there’s a helm I want, or a gear set I want to grind for a PVP character. My argonian DK tank is now an orc scroll runner/Barrier-bot, because I got so tired of dealing with terrible damage dealers. I’m gradually going to turn all of my characters into PVP characters, because PVE is so miserable most of the time.

Yep.

LittlePinkDot · August 2018

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please? In my last dungeon (vWS1) I was doing 47% of the group damage as a Frost Warden Tank, the annoying think i that all want to be a DPS when not all are, the role of a DPS is do damage no kiss the mobs. 10 minutes to kill the second boss. Or at least remove the quiter punishment in this situations.

I have a perfect solution. Make monster helmets drop in normal.

ItsNebula · August 2018

With the CP cap, and the sets in game for PvE specifically.. EVERY DPS should be able to do (If youre 400-500cp+ id say) 35k+ now with just little knowledge of a rotation for your build.

If youre a PvE DPS and cant do at least 35k+ in this day and age of ESO.. why are you even attempting DPS?
(LOTS of Max CP that cant even pull 35k, its really sad tbh)

Guppet · August 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please? In my last dungeon (vWS1) I was doing 47% of the group damage as a Frost Warden Tank, the annoying think i that all want to be a DPS when not all are, the role of a DPS is do damage no kiss the mobs. 10 minutes to kill the second boss. Or at least remove the quiter punishment in this situations.

I have a perfect solution. Make monster helmets drop in normal.

Yep, this is the main reason people who are not fully vet ready, step into vet dungeons. Drop blue helms in normal and average quality of people queuing for vet dungeons would sky rocket.

Facefister · August 2018

The mindset of the DDs, especially the bad ones, is that the tank and the healer should fulfill their role while their "role" of the Damage Dealer is a huge grey area which allows all kinds of shenanigans.

Dymence · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please? In my last dungeon (vWS1) I was doing 47% of the group damage as a Frost Warden Tank, the annoying think i that all want to be a DPS when not all are, the role of a DPS is do damage no kiss the mobs. 10 minutes to kill the second boss. Or at least remove the quiter punishment in this situations.

If tank doing 47% of group damage, then:
1. He is not real tank (like I do on Sorc when Q for random normals, lul)
2. Or his DDs are AFK

You would be surprised what kind of creatures lurk in the night

idk · August 2018

abelsgmx wrote: »

ZoS may you improve a DPS minimun damage requirement for vet dungeons please? In my last dungeon (vWS1) I was doing 47% of the group damage as a Frost Warden Tank, the annoying think i that all want to be a DPS when not all are, the role of a DPS is do damage no kiss the mobs. 10 minutes to kill the second boss. Or at least remove the quiter punishment in this situations.

First of all, if you were doing 47% of the damage as a tank you were not built as a tank. Even with the worst DPS I have seen I have not come close to that though any means when on a true tank. That is why I usually do not queue solo for GF on a true tank. Usually queue on a DPS as a tank.

Second, the answer to your request is no. Zos gives us the choice to form groups ourselves. Guilds are great for this and Zone is often a good choice as well. There is no excuse to not form ones group. It takes me much less effort than it would to create this thread.

ZeroXFF · August 2018

The DPS requirements of different dungeons vary. I wouldn't want to force someone doing 15k DPS into a normal dungeon, because in a normal there is nothing for them to learn as everything will die too quickly with that DPS. I wouldn't want that kind of DPS in vFH though. There should be a tier system for dungeons instead of slamming them all in the same category, and the dungeon finder tool should inform the players about what they have to be able to bring to the table if they want to be successful while not being carried.

MartiniDaniels · August 2018

Come on, maybe you are too used to self-sufficient cp780 dps from guild and simply don't tank properly if such high percent of dps are dead or run around spending all their resources for self-heal?

I run pugs 90% of time and constantly change something in my tank, trying different builds and the more this build is distanced from pure tank the more my dps and healer are running around.. and when i see hard dungeon in random daily with rather low-cp level teammates, i just wear all gear maxed for tanking and then everything going smooth.. you know group is like clock, it goes right when every part is doing it's job (i.e. tank is taunting and place boss in right location, healer heals and provide buffs instead of dpsing and dps avoid aoes and kill adds first instead of trying to nuke 6mil boss like he is dummy).

But if one dps got deadly aoe, don't have time to react since healer forgot about mutagen, tank roars and try to res him instead of moving boss out of dead dps place, boss interrupts him with a kick and then one-shot second dps and then adds overrun "self-sufficent" tank and healer.. of course if your stats outclass dungeon difficulty you may res all team with a tank, cp780 healer may do more damage then some random dps guys and cp780 dps can nuke boss fast enough so weak healer and tank won't go out of resources, but this is not skill this is just stats and dungeon which is too easy for this character...

And on difficulty matching your character you will complete dungeon only if at least 3 of 4 are doing there job (tank, heal, 1 of dps) and somehow me and my friends who play ESO got such pugs 80% of times..

Glurin · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

The mindset of the DDs, especially the bad ones, is that the tank and the healer should fulfill their role while their "role" of the Damage Dealer is a huge grey area which allows all kinds of shenanigans.

No, there is another kind of bad DPS. The kind that may be able to do ungodly amounts of damage, but if you fart in his general direction he'll keel over. They are the kind that refuse to adapt to any circumstances that fall outside his little meta box and would rather go on a tirade in general chat and/or the forums than make any adjustment to their tactics or stats because "muh deeps would drop!"

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Glurin wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

The mindset of the DDs, especially the bad ones, is that the tank and the healer should fulfill their role while their "role" of the Damage Dealer is a huge grey area which allows all kinds of shenanigans.

No, there is another kind of bad DPS. The kind that may be able to do ungodly amounts of damage, but if you fart in his general direction he'll keel over. They are the kind that refuse to adapt to any circumstances that fall outside his little meta box and would rather go on a tirade in general chat and/or the forums than make any adjustment to their tactics or stats because "muh deeps would drop!"

Well, actually "meta" dds are usually after those hard to get achieves, such as Immortal Redeemer and Gryphon Heart. And even in "normal" hardmodes of new trials and dungeons you cant really afford dying.
"Stack, burn and ignore red circles" meta is really outdated.
And I dont believe that someone who can pull high dps cannot comprehend the mechanics, simply because it's not possible to have good dps without understanding them. I mean, your damage meter keeps ticking while you're dead, and it automatically means bad dps.

raj72616a · August 2018

erliesc wrote: »

Just started the random dungeons...is there an end report on DPS for each player?

Is the loot shared or individual?

What is the meaning of life?

@erliesc

no, ZoS removed access to dps data of other members. we have addon to check total group dps, our personal dps, and calculate our own dps contribution percentage based on those stats.
say, if i do 15k dps as a tank and am doing 60%, then the two dps are probably doing 5k each.

loot is individual, everyone get their own loot from every boss, 100% drop rate. chests and heavy sack work the same too, everyone get their own set of loots from them. alert others to grab their loot when you see a chest or heavy sack.

42.

raj72616a · August 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I care about people's DPS numbers just about as much as I care about their credit scores or 3rd grade report card. But Maaaaan! If you just heavy attack or bow light attack spam, you're dead to me.

what if he's optimized for a light attack build, with kena bloodmoon relequen, and does 35k dps with just light attack spam?

Heimpai · August 2018

This thread is funny..I average 25-26k dps but i stopped caring about improving especially my rotation (needs improving) my ques are well over an hour, it doesn’t matter if i pull 50k I’d still have to bug people in guild to go with me to grind some gear as the ques are too long

And I’m a pvper 98% of the time

[Deleted User] · August 2018

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for some unneeded content, keep in mind that baiting is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay on topic and constructive to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Glurin · August 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

The mindset of the DDs, especially the bad ones, is that the tank and the healer should fulfill their role while their "role" of the Damage Dealer is a huge grey area which allows all kinds of shenanigans.

No, there is another kind of bad DPS. The kind that may be able to do ungodly amounts of damage, but if you fart in his general direction he'll keel over. They are the kind that refuse to adapt to any circumstances that fall outside his little meta box and would rather go on a tirade in general chat and/or the forums than make any adjustment to their tactics or stats because "muh deeps would drop!"

Well, actually "meta" dds are usually after those hard to get achieves, such as Immortal Redeemer and Gryphon Heart. And even in "normal" hardmodes of new trials and dungeons you cant really afford dying.

Then why are they in a PUG?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

"Stack, burn and ignore red circles" meta is really outdated.
And I dont believe that someone who can pull high dps cannot comprehend the mechanics, simply because it's not possible to have good dps without understanding them. I mean, your damage meter keeps ticking while you're dead, and it automatically means bad dps.

I've watched it happen quite a number of times. It usually comes about because they get used to just burning the boss to ash so quickly that the mechanics don't even come into play. Or they make some little mistake and get one-shot because of it because they have zero survivability after shunting everything they've got into DPS. Or they just don't like that somebody else is "not playing correctly", which usually means not following whatever online guide the DPS is reading, and they screw up because they're too busy raging at someone to pay attention. Whatever the case may be, the common theme is that they end up putting out basically nothing because they're to busy berating everyone else for pretty much anything the elitist considers wrong.

DanteYoda · August 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

Yes there should be a minimum damage level to do high end content.. I'd say 80k minimum..

80k/s might be a little hyperbolic but 35k/s is pretty reasonable to expect. As a tank I drop groups all the time if the DPS is lacking. It's not even about plausible, for me I allocate about 15-20 min max for a vet dungeon run, if the first trash pack takes 2 minutes to die, I'm out. Someone else who needs to learn can learn with that batch of dps.

I was actually joking i do feel 35k - 40k should be the requirement. For top tier dungeons.