Why Meteor costs so much more then Dawnbreaker?

Skander · August 2018

The title says it all. They do similar things, but meteor just costs more.

Drakkdjinn · August 2018

Safety of a Ranged ult + ult gain effect.

Jhalin · August 2018

Probably because Meteor can’t miss, leaves a rather hefty ground DoT, and can be cast from range

Baconlad · August 2018

Cast from range is the only viable thing I can see.

It costs more, deals similar damage, has long hit time. Telegraphed that it's about to knock you on you ass so BLOCK or MISTFORM NOW BEFORE RUNE CAGE. It also doesn't have the increased damage potential from fighters guild abilities....it's meh...I think a bit of cost redux is needed on it. I would love to get away from soul assault on my magplar

Thogard · August 2018

Baconlad wrote: »

Cast from range is the only viable thing I can see.

It costs more, deals similar damage, has long hit time. Telegraphed that it's about to knock you on you ass so BLOCK or MISTFORM NOW BEFORE RUNE CAGE. It also doesn't have the increased damage potential from fighters guild abilities....it's meh...I think a bit of cost redux is needed on it. I would love to get away from soul assault on my magplar

Would cost reduction fix any of those issues though?

You listed a bunch of hard counters.

_Ahala_ · August 2018

Baconlad wrote: »

Cast from range is the only viable thing I can see.

It costs more, deals similar damage, has long hit time. Telegraphed that it's about to knock you on you ass so BLOCK or MISTFORM NOW BEFORE RUNE CAGE. It also doesn't have the increased damage potential from fighters guild abilities....it's meh...I think a bit of cost redux is needed on it. I would love to get away from soul assault on my magplar

This 100% but for my magden

OrphanHelgen · August 2018

Meteor also gives 2% max magicka and recovery, and empower on your next light attack.

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2018

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Meteor also gives 2% max magicka and recovery, and empower on your next light attack.

Doesn’t dawnbreaker increase weapon dmg hy having it slotted?

Valrien · August 2018

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Meteor also gives 2% max magicka and recovery, and empower on your next light attack.

Dawnbreaker gives you a ton more.

Personally, I hate the "safety from range" argument.

There is no ranged gameplay in this game, not when gap closers are meta

Beavisaur13 · August 2018

Wasn't Meteor Spam, so bad at one point, that it caused huge lag in cyrodil?

Kadoin · August 2018

ZOS likes making magic cost more for some reason...

Beardimus · August 2018

Hence a ton of Magika players run DBoS...

Skander · August 2018

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Meteor also gives 2% max magicka and recovery, and empower on your next light attack.

Dawnbreaker gives you a 3% overall more weapon dmg

Drakkdjinn · August 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

ZOS likes making magic cost more for some reason...

Because stam is used for all other mechanics, mostly require melee range, and has poor regen potential as well as fewer max set buffs. Comments like these just demonstrate a lack of basic game knowledge.

Lexxypwns · August 2018

Meteor definitely hits harder than DB if it isn’t countered. Have definitely hit multiple 15k+ meteors just this week and I’m playing a tanky sustain build.

Meteor is just a feast or famine option. If it isn’t countered it’s the most devastating ultimate in the game. If it is countered it’s basically useless.

BigBadVolk · August 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Meteor definitely hits harder than DB if it isn’t countered. Have definitely hit multiple 15k+ meteors just this week and I’m playing a tanky sustain build.

Meteor is just a feast or famine option. If it isn’t countered it’s the most devastating ultimate in the game. If it is countered it’s basically useless.

This
but tbh they all have similar passives like the extra wep damage to DB plus that also deals extra damage to vamp and wws and ulti gen is there too if you kill the said vamps and wws
and ofc DB is the same if its dodged its useless

Skander · August 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Meteor definitely hits harder than DB if it isn’t countered. Have definitely hit multiple 15k+ meteors just this week and I’m playing a tanky sustain build.

Meteor is just a feast or famine option. If it isn’t countered it’s the most devastating ultimate in the game. If it is countered it’s basically useless.

To say that you only get 1 meteor tooltip, when dawnbreaker gets 2 (since the dot is unavoidable)

Skander · August 2018

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Meteor definitely hits harder than DB if it isn’t countered. Have definitely hit multiple 15k+ meteors just this week and I’m playing a tanky sustain build.

Meteor is just a feast or famine option. If it isn’t countered it’s the most devastating ultimate in the game. If it is countered it’s basically useless.

This
but tbh they all have similar passives like the extra wep damage to DB plus that also deals extra damage to vamp and wws and ulti gen is there too if you kill the said vamps and wws
and ofc DB is the same if its dodged its useless

DB is undodgiable

TrinityBreaker · August 2018

I dunno, summoning a mystic sword to smack the s h i t out of people seems easier than ripping a meteor from outer space.

Lexxypwns · August 2018

Skander wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Meteor definitely hits harder than DB if it isn’t countered. Have definitely hit multiple 15k+ meteors just this week and I’m playing a tanky sustain build.

Meteor is just a feast or famine option. If it isn’t countered it’s the most devastating ultimate in the game. If it is countered it’s basically useless.

To say that you only get 1 meteor tooltip, when dawnbreaker gets 2 (since the dot is unavoidable)

If you get meteor CC’ed you take 2 ticks of the ground DoT, which is also stronger than the DB DoT. Basically if you don’t counter a meteor it’s GG, you can eat a DB and survive with a quick CC break and turtle.

molecule · August 2018

Beavisaur13 wrote: »

Wasn't Meteor Spam, so bad at one point, that it caused huge lag in cyrodil?

Logging in causes huge lag atm

Enslaved · August 2018

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Safety of a Ranged ult + ult gain effect.

This

Kadoin · August 2018

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

ZOS likes making magic cost more for some reason...

Because stam is used for all other mechanics, mostly require melee range, and has poor regen potential as well as fewer max set buffs. Comments like these just demonstrate a lack of basic game knowledge.

I would bite, but all I have to say is keep believing that and you made me just

nryerson1025 · August 2018

i would be happy if dawnbreaker got meteor range and increased cost

Jameliel · August 2018

Half the time DB goes off and consumes ult but does nothing.

Finviuswe · August 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Probably because Meteor can’t miss, leaves a rather hefty ground DoT, and can be cast from range

Everything you need to answer the question is right here ^

The Empower and max magicka aspects to it were not likely a major factor because fighters guild also has similarly beneficial passives.

JesQu · August 2018

Cause they're entirely different ultimates, bruh.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2018

They are two completely different ultimates, of course if you only consider them in one application, PVP burst, then one is going to be better than the other.

First lets consider the base damage to cost ratio:

Ice Comet:
-ult: 200
-dmg: 1581 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 30.8

Shooting Star:
-ult: 192-12(has to hit one target)=180
-dmg: 1437 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 33.4

Dawnbreaker of Smiting:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1371(over 5s)
-ratio: 19.2
-undead ratio: 23

Flawless Dawnbreaker:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1191(over 5s)
-ratio: 17.7
-undead ratio: 21.2

Clearly both morphs of meteor far out perform Dawnbreaker in a damage to cost comparison when all of the meteor dot deals damage. But how many ticks before they are comparable? Lets consider DBOS vs Ice Comet these are the PVP skills of concern.

DBOS:
-dmg: 2398
-dmg undead: 2877.6

Ice Comet:
-instant damage + 2 ticks of dot: 2495
-instant damage + 3 ticks of dot: 2952

This is where people get the idea that they deal comparable damage, 2-3 ticks of the dot is the most you will likely get in a PVP scenario where players can move out of ground placed effects. They only deal comparable damage in PVP situations where players are able to move out of the effect, which is most PVP situations.

This doesn't account for everything though, FG passives increase weapon damage, while MG passives increase Max Magicka, ultimates scale primarily on maximum resource not weapon/spell damage. Magicka also has better access to buffs which increase maximum magicka through sets and passives. Which means magicka characters are able to stack higher max resource and gain larger ultimates.

Further Meteor and morphs can be use at max range, while Dawnbreaker and morphs requires the player to run into the fray. While less significant in BG's, it is quite significant in Cyrodiil where you can stand in the back of a zerg or on top of a wall and spam skills.

The rise of destro ultimate in PVE has certainly hurt Meteor, however Meteor could easily jump to being OP with very little in the way of buffs.

Skander · August 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

They are two completely different ultimates, of course if you only consider them in one application, PVP burst, then one is going to be better than the other.

First lets consider the base damage to cost ratio:

Ice Comet:
-ult: 200
-dmg: 1581 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 30.8

Shooting Star:
-ult: 192-12(has to hit one target)=180
-dmg: 1437 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 33.4

Dawnbreaker of Smiting:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1371(over 5s)
-ratio: 19.2
-undead ratio: 23

Flawless Dawnbreaker:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1191(over 5s)
-ratio: 17.7
-undead ratio: 21.2

Clearly both morphs of meteor far out perform Dawnbreaker in a damage to cost comparison when all of the meteor dot deals damage. But how many ticks before they are comparable? Lets consider DBOS vs Ice Comet these are the PVP skills of concern.

DBOS:
-dmg: 2398
-dmg undead: 2877.6

Ice Comet:
-instant damage + 2 ticks of dot: 2495
-instant damage + 3 ticks of dot: 2952

This is where people get the idea that they deal comparable damage, 2-3 ticks of the dot is the most you will likely get in a PVP scenario where players can move out of ground placed effects. They only deal comparable damage in PVP situations where players are able to move out of the effect, which is most PVP situations.

This doesn't account for everything though, FG passives increase weapon damage, while MG passives increase Max Magicka, ultimates scale primarily on maximum resource not weapon/spell damage. Magicka also has better access to buffs which increase maximum magicka through sets and passives. Which means magicka characters are able to stack higher max resource and gain larger ultimates.

Further Meteor and morphs can be use at max range, while Dawnbreaker and morphs requires the player to run into the fray. While less significant in BG's, it is quite significant in Cyrodiil where you can stand in the back of a zerg or on top of a wall and spam skills.

The rise of destro ultimate in PVE has certainly hurt Meteor, however Meteor could easily jump to being OP with very little in the way of buffs.

You neeed to understand that the target needs to stick 10 seconds on the DOT area to get the full effect. Which is VERY unlikable

Skander · August 2018

Also: You are advised by 2-3 seconds cooldown when the meteor is called. This doesn't happen with dawnbreaker

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

Skander wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

They are two completely different ultimates, of course if you only consider them in one application, PVP burst, then one is going to be better than the other.

First lets consider the base damage to cost ratio:

Ice Comet:
-ult: 200
-dmg: 1581 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 30.8

Shooting Star:
-ult: 192-12(has to hit one target)=180
-dmg: 1437 + 4570(over 10s)
-ratio: 33.4

Dawnbreaker of Smiting:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1371(over 5s)
-ratio: 19.2
-undead ratio: 23

Flawless Dawnbreaker:
-ult: 125
-dmg: 1027 + 1191(over 5s)
-ratio: 17.7
-undead ratio: 21.2

Clearly both morphs of meteor far out perform Dawnbreaker in a damage to cost comparison when all of the meteor dot deals damage. But how many ticks before they are comparable? Lets consider DBOS vs Ice Comet these are the PVP skills of concern.

DBOS:
-dmg: 2398
-dmg undead: 2877.6

Ice Comet:
-instant damage + 2 ticks of dot: 2495
-instant damage + 3 ticks of dot: 2952

This is where people get the idea that they deal comparable damage, 2-3 ticks of the dot is the most you will likely get in a PVP scenario where players can move out of ground placed effects. They only deal comparable damage in PVP situations where players are able to move out of the effect, which is most PVP situations.

This doesn't account for everything though, FG passives increase weapon damage, while MG passives increase Max Magicka, ultimates scale primarily on maximum resource not weapon/spell damage. Magicka also has better access to buffs which increase maximum magicka through sets and passives. Which means magicka characters are able to stack higher max resource and gain larger ultimates.

Further Meteor and morphs can be use at max range, while Dawnbreaker and morphs requires the player to run into the fray. While less significant in BG's, it is quite significant in Cyrodiil where you can stand in the back of a zerg or on top of a wall and spam skills.

The rise of destro ultimate in PVE has certainly hurt Meteor, however Meteor could easily jump to being OP with very little in the way of buffs.

You neeed to understand that the target needs to stick 10 seconds on the DOT area to get the full effect. Which is VERY unlikable

And you can get 3 dawnbreakers out in the time you can get 2 meteors.