When are we going to be able to change our stage 4 vampirism appearance?
-
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭TES-lore there are vampires that can go by unnoticed in public. If we used lore though vampires would be super strong especially at night and have the power of invisibility along with the power to turn into mist.
So again...spite.
Jerrypicking much? How long has it been, that your character could see his/her own face?
Every time I craft something, so every time I log on, so pretty much every day. That aside it isn't just the face. Even if it were just the face that doesn't matter. By your logic we might as well not have facial options at all during character creation because when are you ever going to see the face. Just one face fits all and we can pick weight and height.
Nobody has offered a good reason to not allow a cosmetic change to hide vampirism. Some people will tell us if ZoS were going to do it they would have already. That isn't really a reason but at least it might have some truth to it.
With all the things cosmetics can and do hide in this game it seems a bit silly that vampirism is singled out.
The point is, that you insist on several different stories about vampires to apply on the one of TES story too, while at the same time ignoring one of the most important one: No mirror image - thus no need for vanity. Very simple, not complicated.
So it's not "my logic", that's any problem here. Reasons were given that speak against your proposal, even though I can understand it, but they are purposely ignored. This shows your unwillingness to conduct a reasonable discussion about it.
Even if there is no mirror image, there is still a viable reason for vanity from a lore perspective. It even already exists in-game. Survival in a social environment with those that aren't cursed. There are many ways illusion magic or even an assistant/friend could help write out the well can't see yourself in a mirror spiel.
You accepted a gift, not a curse. Lamae is not happy...
You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TES-lore there are vampires that can go by unnoticed in public. If we used lore though vampires would be super strong especially at night and have the power of invisibility along with the power to turn into mist.
So again...spite.
Jerrypicking much? How long has it been, that your character could see his/her own face?
Every time I craft something, so every time I log on, so pretty much every day. That aside it isn't just the face. Even if it were just the face that doesn't matter. By your logic we might as well not have facial options at all during character creation because when are you ever going to see the face. Just one face fits all and we can pick weight and height.
Nobody has offered a good reason to not allow a cosmetic change to hide vampirism. Some people will tell us if ZoS were going to do it they would have already. That isn't really a reason but at least it might have some truth to it.
With all the things cosmetics can and do hide in this game it seems a bit silly that vampirism is singled out.
The point is, that you insist on several different stories about vampires to apply on the one of TES story too, while at the same time ignoring one of the most important one: No mirror image - thus no need for vanity. Very simple, not complicated.
So it's not "my logic", that's any problem here. Reasons were given that speak against your proposal, even though I can understand it, but they are purposely ignored. This shows your unwillingness to conduct a reasonable discussion about it.
Even if there is no mirror image, there is still a viable reason for vanity from a lore perspective. It even already exists in-game. Survival in a social environment with those that aren't cursed. There are many ways illusion magic or even an assistant/friend could help write out the well can't see yourself in a mirror spiel.
You accepted a gift, not a curse. Lamae is not happy...
I'll make sure to send Lamae a gift basket of lost villagers.
0 -
PouletRico✭✭✭I wear a full plate armor, problem solved @PouletRico - EU PC Megaserver
PouletRico - TankDK - EP
Experimental Kamikaze - StamDK - AD
I'm doing my best, but I'm not a native speaker1 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TES-lore there are vampires that can go by unnoticed in public. If we used lore though vampires would be super strong especially at night and have the power of invisibility along with the power to turn into mist.
So again...spite.
Jerrypicking much? How long has it been, that your character could see his/her own face?
Every time I craft something, so every time I log on, so pretty much every day. That aside it isn't just the face. Even if it were just the face that doesn't matter. By your logic we might as well not have facial options at all during character creation because when are you ever going to see the face. Just one face fits all and we can pick weight and height.
Nobody has offered a good reason to not allow a cosmetic change to hide vampirism. Some people will tell us if ZoS were going to do it they would have already. That isn't really a reason but at least it might have some truth to it.
With all the things cosmetics can and do hide in this game it seems a bit silly that vampirism is singled out.
The point is, that you insist on several different stories about vampires to apply on the TES story too, while at the same time ignoring one of the most important characteristics: No mirror image - thus no need for vanity. Very simple, not complicated.
So it's not "my logic", that's any problem here. Reasons were given that speak against your proposal, even though I can understand it, but they are purposely ignored. This shows your unwillingness to conduct a reasonable discussion about it.
except that not every story has vampires who cast no reflection, TES vampires do have a reflection, but i digress as that reasoning has zero to do with a cosmetic appearance change.. And no you have not given any actual 'reasoning' as to why we are not allowed to change our appearance cosmetically.
thus far the only delusional logic i have seen have been "you chose to be a vampire, so you have to be ugly." or "Lore dictates vampires must be ugly." or "If you don't look like vampires, how will i know who to attack with dawnbreaker in pvp?"
your reasons for arguing against a cosmetic skin change option for vampires is extremely petty and i get he feeling most of your argue against it solely for the sake of arguing.1 -
ellahellabella✭✭✭✭✭It would be nice if a way were available. Till then, All my vampires wear amberplasm skin and I'm keeping that sneak speed.Try to read everything I write with an Australian accent
PC NA
ZOMBIE DEATH MACHINE
Vanguard
Outcasts
Full faction locks are only further dividing an already dwindling pvp community
Toons:
Ebonheart Pact
Sophis (M. Templar), Lilivah Rallenar (M. Sorcerer), Diakoptês (M. Dragonknight), Pins and Needles (M. Nightblade), Claws-your-Curtains (S. Sorcerer), Raan-Mir-Tah (M Warden), Hezik (S Warden)
Aldmeri Dominion
Sophis-ticated (M. Templar), Tis not easy being Green (S. Dragonknight)
Daggerfall Covernant
Sirius Delatora (M. Nightblade), Ellaberry (S. Templar), Ellabear (pve tank) Claìr De Lune (M. Sorc)0 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »TES-lore there are vampires that can go by unnoticed in public. If we used lore though vampires would be super strong especially at night and have the power of invisibility along with the power to turn into mist.
So again...spite.
Jerrypicking much? How long has it been, that your character could see his/her own face?
Every time I craft something, so every time I log on, so pretty much every day. That aside it isn't just the face. Even if it were just the face that doesn't matter. By your logic we might as well not have facial options at all during character creation because when are you ever going to see the face. Just one face fits all and we can pick weight and height.
Nobody has offered a good reason to not allow a cosmetic change to hide vampirism. Some people will tell us if ZoS were going to do it they would have already. That isn't really a reason but at least it might have some truth to it.
With all the things cosmetics can and do hide in this game it seems a bit silly that vampirism is singled out.
The point is, that you insist on several different stories about vampires to apply on the TES story too, while at the same time ignoring one of the most important characteristics: No mirror image - thus no need for vanity. Very simple, not complicated.
So it's not "my logic", that's any problem here. Reasons were given that speak against your proposal, even though I can understand it, but they are purposely ignored. This shows your unwillingness to conduct a reasonable discussion about it.
except that not every story has vampires who cast no reflection, TES vampires do have a reflection, but i digress as that reasoning has zero to do with a cosmetic appearance change.. And no you have not given any actual 'reasoning' as to why we are not allowed to change our appearance cosmetically.
thus far the only delusional logic i have seen have been "you chose to be a vampire, so you have to be ugly." or "Lore dictates vampires must be ugly." or "If you don't look like vampires, how will i know who to attack with dawnbreaker in pvp?"
your reasons for arguing against a cosmetic skin change option for vampires is extremely petty and i get he feeling most of your argue against it solely for the sake of arguing.
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!2 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
The lore represents the minority, when authors take liberties to change the status-quo. Having read Bram Stoker's Dracula, the beauty referred to female vampires are pre-transformed, but once they feed, their transformation of a bat-like figure takes over.In vampire lore we find the following descriptions of vampires.
ESO has it right: Stage 1 = normal looking. Stage 4 = appearance change.
If people are upset over the looks of a vampire, just cure the damn thing, but stop asking for Stage 1 appearance for Stage 4 vampirism.
If this doesn't stop, I'm afraid people will ask ZoS to make their vampires sparkle in the sunglight.
i am pretty sure that cosmetics throw lore out the window as far as appearances go, so that argument is invalid. and so far all i'm hearing is spite, trying to deny vampire characters a cosmetic alternative, or pure salt from pvp players who want our pasty whiteness to shine like a gem so they know who to slam with dawnbreaker.
most people who "don't support" a cosmetic skin change for vampires are typically doing it to troll or cause frustration or arguments.
Ironically enough, a lot of those of us who do not want changes to the current system of vampirism argue our cases because we deeply care.
While I myself am not against a skin that just gives you the normal appareance of your character, it would complicate things as that, to far most, would mean that vampirism is now mandatory, which it shouldnt be.
Undeath is the real drawback of Vampirism, and while I myself would like for the weaknesses and strengths to be better tailored so -that- was the main defactor for why people would NOT want vampirism, but alas, that is not truly a thing because we play an MMO.
But Violynne was absolutely correct her, and by dismissing their argument like that you've really only lost a battle yourself.
Vampirism in TES has always been like this. Less strengths and weaknesses in the first stages, but while you go without feeding you become more feral, predatory and dangerous, aka you become stronger and deadlier, but with a cost of your humanity.
since when has the cosmetic appearance of our character dictated whether a skill line is mandatory or not. "If vampires aren't ugly, the meta will shift in which players have to be vampires." that logic is not sound by any means and to claim otherwise is rather silly.4 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.2 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!2 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?3 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!2 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?3 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
The lore represents the minority, when authors take liberties to change the status-quo. Having read Bram Stoker's Dracula, the beauty referred to female vampires are pre-transformed, but once they feed, their transformation of a bat-like figure takes over.In vampire lore we find the following descriptions of vampires.
ESO has it right: Stage 1 = normal looking. Stage 4 = appearance change.
If people are upset over the looks of a vampire, just cure the damn thing, but stop asking for Stage 1 appearance for Stage 4 vampirism.
If this doesn't stop, I'm afraid people will ask ZoS to make their vampires sparkle in the sunglight.
i am pretty sure that cosmetics throw lore out the window as far as appearances go, so that argument is invalid. and so far all i'm hearing is spite, trying to deny vampire characters a cosmetic alternative, or pure salt from pvp players who want our pasty whiteness to shine like a gem so they know who to slam with dawnbreaker.
most people who "don't support" a cosmetic skin change for vampires are typically doing it to troll or cause frustration or arguments.
Ironically enough, a lot of those of us who do not want changes to the current system of vampirism argue our cases because we deeply care.
While I myself am not against a skin that just gives you the normal appareance of your character, it would complicate things as that, to far most, would mean that vampirism is now mandatory, which it shouldnt be.
Undeath is the real drawback of Vampirism, and while I myself would like for the weaknesses and strengths to be better tailored so -that- was the main defactor for why people would NOT want vampirism, but alas, that is not truly a thing because we play an MMO.
But Violynne was absolutely correct her, and by dismissing their argument like that you've really only lost a battle yourself.
Vampirism in TES has always been like this. Less strengths and weaknesses in the first stages, but while you go without feeding you become more feral, predatory and dangerous, aka you become stronger and deadlier, but with a cost of your humanity.
since when has the cosmetic appearance of our character dictated whether a skill line is mandatory or not. "If vampires aren't ugly, the meta will shift in which players have to be vampires." that logic is not sound by any means and to claim otherwise is rather silly.
I think their argument is sound and valid, what premise do you disagree with? that people don't choose to be vampires because of the look, or that people don't try to optimize their character's performance?
Their argument is actually quite elegant, it as been expressed before, but here quite nicely. I certainly would make all my characters vampires if the only drawback was almost no health regen and a petty 25% extra fire damage. Many of my characters were vampires when the fire damage penalty was +50%. Personally I think the appearance (stage 4) looks ok, and really good on some characters though tatoo overlay thing should really be fixed. There are some characters I have that I wouldn't want to look like a vampire and so they are not vampires. I suppose I have personally proved that their argument is valid and sound with at least my own choices.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American3 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
The lore represents the minority, when authors take liberties to change the status-quo. Having read Bram Stoker's Dracula, the beauty referred to female vampires are pre-transformed, but once they feed, their transformation of a bat-like figure takes over.In vampire lore we find the following descriptions of vampires.
ESO has it right: Stage 1 = normal looking. Stage 4 = appearance change.
If people are upset over the looks of a vampire, just cure the damn thing, but stop asking for Stage 1 appearance for Stage 4 vampirism.
If this doesn't stop, I'm afraid people will ask ZoS to make their vampires sparkle in the sunglight.
i am pretty sure that cosmetics throw lore out the window as far as appearances go, so that argument is invalid. and so far all i'm hearing is spite, trying to deny vampire characters a cosmetic alternative, or pure salt from pvp players who want our pasty whiteness to shine like a gem so they know who to slam with dawnbreaker.
most people who "don't support" a cosmetic skin change for vampires are typically doing it to troll or cause frustration or arguments.
Ironically enough, a lot of those of us who do not want changes to the current system of vampirism argue our cases because we deeply care.
While I myself am not against a skin that just gives you the normal appareance of your character, it would complicate things as that, to far most, would mean that vampirism is now mandatory, which it shouldnt be.
Undeath is the real drawback of Vampirism, and while I myself would like for the weaknesses and strengths to be better tailored so -that- was the main defactor for why people would NOT want vampirism, but alas, that is not truly a thing because we play an MMO.
But Violynne was absolutely correct her, and by dismissing their argument like that you've really only lost a battle yourself.
Vampirism in TES has always been like this. Less strengths and weaknesses in the first stages, but while you go without feeding you become more feral, predatory and dangerous, aka you become stronger and deadlier, but with a cost of your humanity.
since when has the cosmetic appearance of our character dictated whether a skill line is mandatory or not. "If vampires aren't ugly, the meta will shift in which players have to be vampires." that logic is not sound by any means and to claim otherwise is rather silly.
I think their argument is sound and valid, what premise do you disagree with? that people don't choose to be vampires because of the look, or that people don't try to optimize their character's performance?
Their argument is actually quite elegant, it as been expressed before, but here quite nicely. I certainly would make all my characters vampires if the only drawback was almost no health regen and a petty 25% extra fire damage. Many of my characters were vampires when the fire damage penalty was +50%. Personally I think the appearance (stage 4) looks ok, and really good on some characters though tatoo overlay thing should really be fixed. There are some characters I have that I wouldn't want to look like a vampire and so they are not vampires. I suppose I have personally proved that their argument is valid and sound with at least my own choices.
If this is a common thought, then perhaps there should be a sidebar discussion about ZOS doing a balance pass on vampire skills, both active and passive. Allowing the cosmetic dialog to be a separate one altogether, as it should be anyway. Accepting a cosmetic effect an adiquet balance to mechanics and gameplay is just accepting poor game design.Edited by BigBragg on August 24, 2018 2:53PM0 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!2 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, becoming a vampire and gaining strong passives should have drawbacks.
Which it does. You take increased fire damage and have reduced health regen.
Looking ugly is not a drawback. You're able to customize everything else - including hide your vampirism with existing skins. More customization is never a bad thing when it comes to cosmetics.6 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.
I can't choose to role play that my vampire character uses illusion magic or makeup at times? Seems your statement is more about limiting the RP aspect of an MMORPG.Edited by BigBragg on August 24, 2018 2:57PM1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.
I totally agree, because without the RP appearance, every human becomes a vampire, and then there are no more vampires, just humans with a world skill line of buffs to stealth speed, magicka regen and execution resistance that take a little more fire damage and have little health regen. Once everyone is a vampire only in stats, what is a vampire in the game? I'd think most people wouldn't even remember their characters were vampires?“Whatever.”
-Unknown American2 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@AhPook_Is_Here
how would that be any different from now? if a vampire's passives are that strong people are going to use them whether we have the ability to change our appearance or not, yet you act like if we have the ability to appear less grotesque it will force a vampirism meta onto the community, but that is a load of tripe.
you don't need vampirism to be a successful tank or dd, all it does is give you a slight supplementation to your outgoing damage or ability to take a hit. well... that is for people who take vampirism solely for the passives, but i use their active skills in combat. a vampiric pet sorcerer is nigh immortal because i have a massive shield and an immense amount of health recovery, being able to change my appearance won't affect that, but it would make me happier being able to craft an outfit that i want for my vampire.1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.
I can't choose to role play that my vampire character uses illusion magic or makeup at times? Seems your statement is more about limiting the RP aspect of an MMORPG.
1. Illusion magic doesn't work with that type of vampire, this was made clear in another thread relating to some NPC who does that.
2. It is very difficult at best to apply makeup, once again, without a mirror image.
Don't like the look? Cure it.Edited by Kelces on August 24, 2018 3:03PMYou reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Kelces
you say that it will diminish roleplay because we will be able to change our appearance? I fail to see how that could possibly be true when it would give players far more appearances to choose from. In my eyes that would enhance the experience of roleplay.
how exactly does this change destroy the roleplaying aspect of the game?0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
The lore represents the minority, when authors take liberties to change the status-quo. Having read Bram Stoker's Dracula, the beauty referred to female vampires are pre-transformed, but once they feed, their transformation of a bat-like figure takes over.In vampire lore we find the following descriptions of vampires.
ESO has it right: Stage 1 = normal looking. Stage 4 = appearance change.
If people are upset over the looks of a vampire, just cure the damn thing, but stop asking for Stage 1 appearance for Stage 4 vampirism.
If this doesn't stop, I'm afraid people will ask ZoS to make their vampires sparkle in the sunglight.
i am pretty sure that cosmetics throw lore out the window as far as appearances go, so that argument is invalid. and so far all i'm hearing is spite, trying to deny vampire characters a cosmetic alternative, or pure salt from pvp players who want our pasty whiteness to shine like a gem so they know who to slam with dawnbreaker.
most people who "don't support" a cosmetic skin change for vampires are typically doing it to troll or cause frustration or arguments.
Ironically enough, a lot of those of us who do not want changes to the current system of vampirism argue our cases because we deeply care.
While I myself am not against a skin that just gives you the normal appareance of your character, it would complicate things as that, to far most, would mean that vampirism is now mandatory, which it shouldnt be.
Undeath is the real drawback of Vampirism, and while I myself would like for the weaknesses and strengths to be better tailored so -that- was the main defactor for why people would NOT want vampirism, but alas, that is not truly a thing because we play an MMO.
But Violynne was absolutely correct her, and by dismissing their argument like that you've really only lost a battle yourself.
Vampirism in TES has always been like this. Less strengths and weaknesses in the first stages, but while you go without feeding you become more feral, predatory and dangerous, aka you become stronger and deadlier, but with a cost of your humanity.
since when has the cosmetic appearance of our character dictated whether a skill line is mandatory or not. "If vampires aren't ugly, the meta will shift in which players have to be vampires." that logic is not sound by any means and to claim otherwise is rather silly.
I think their argument is sound and valid, what premise do you disagree with? that people don't choose to be vampires because of the look, or that people don't try to optimize their character's performance?
Their argument is actually quite elegant, it as been expressed before, but here quite nicely. I certainly would make all my characters vampires if the only drawback was almost no health regen and a petty 25% extra fire damage. Many of my characters were vampires when the fire damage penalty was +50%. Personally I think the appearance (stage 4) looks ok, and really good on some characters though tatoo overlay thing should really be fixed. There are some characters I have that I wouldn't want to look like a vampire and so they are not vampires. I suppose I have personally proved that their argument is valid and sound with at least my own choices.
If this is a common thought, then perhaps there should be a sidebar discussion about ZOS doing a balance pass on vampire skills, both active and passive. Allowing the cosmetic dialog to be a separate one altogether, as it should be anyway. Accepting a cosmetic effect an adiquet balance to mechanics and gameplay is just accepting poor game design.
These concepts are tied together because of the way these daedric curses were envisioned. I think a solid rework of vampire from the cosmetic level up would be a good idea. I think at stage 1 maybe you should look human and have no passive effects active. +25% fire damage at all levels is likely fine, but I think instead vampires should have very high health regen, but not be able to receive more than 20% healing, except by their own drain line. This way the more stressed you are the more you look like a vampire as you need to use your skills to survive and it advances your stages, which you need to feed to lower. It would be nice to see the abilities and the ultimate buffed but being a vampire should require one to play like a vampire to receive the optimal benefits of being a vampire. Till that is in place, I don't see how you can detach the appearance issue from the vampire wold line.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.
I can't choose to role play that my vampire character uses illusion magic or makeup at times? Seems your statement is more about limiting the RP aspect of an MMORPG.
1. Illusion magic doesn't work with that type of vampire, this was made clear in another thread relating to some NPC who does that.
2. It is very difficult at best to apply makeup, once again, without a mirror image.
Don't like the look? Cure it.
I though we established that lack of a mirror image isn't canon for this branch of Elder Scrolls vampire.
Edited by BigBragg on August 24, 2018 3:06PM1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »@Kelces
you say that it will diminish roleplay because we will be able to change our appearance? I fail to see how that could possibly be true when it would give players far more appearances to choose from. In my eyes that would enhance the experience of roleplay.
how exactly does this change destroy the roleplaying aspect of the game?
Maybe you should look up the definition...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!1 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe they could add it as a Crown Store option, like 1000 for a hide vamp consumable"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »@Kelces
you say that it will diminish roleplay because we will be able to change our appearance? I fail to see how that could possibly be true when it would give players far more appearances to choose from. In my eyes that would enhance the experience of roleplay.
how exactly does this change destroy the roleplaying aspect of the game?
Maybe you should look up the definition...
or you could actually try to explain your reasoning instead of trying to deflect with some off-handed remark like "go look it up."
explain to me how being able to change your appearance destroys the roleplaying aspect?1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you want to be a Vampire, you're going to look like a Vampire. If you don't want to look like a Vampire, then don't be a Vampire. I don't care about what choice you make. What i care about is people accepting the outcome of their choice.
I don't like the look either, so i choose not to be a Vampire and i live without the passives.
Its very simple.
So, the thing you probably missed is that there are already a number of ways to fully hide vampirism in game. Equip a disguise: Boom, no longer visually a vampire. Equip any skin: Vampirism's invisible. This includes skins which don't hide the character's skin tone, so if you equip Amber Plasm, or Necromancer, your character will appear normal (aside from an unfortunate accident involving some glowing marmalade or their new tattos, respectively.)
In the case of disguises, the game now explicitly gives you the option to completely hide your vampiric nature, at the cost of a limited wardrobe and the inability to change your hair style. Those are comical restrictions. "No vampire's can't hide their true nature and wear their own clothes, it's impossible!"2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
If those reasons are "delusional", then eqully so is saying "I want to have a cosmetic option, just because." which proponent opinions boil down to.
so in essence i want the ability to alter the appearance of my vampire because it would make me happy. seems simple enough, that is kinda the entire idea surrounding being able to change outfits, skins, etc. it is for the sake of vanity.
And yet another "Just because..." one.
what other reason do you need to desire a cosmetic feature?
You insist on others giving a reason that speaks against it, when you just need to essentially say "I want it, period". Serously?
my reasoning is wanting it for the sake of being happy with my character's appearance, or is that reason not good enough for you?
so explain to me why you personally don't want people to have the ability to change the way our vampire appears?
Because it diminishes the value and meaning of two letters that we often forget within the acronym MMORPG, which is RP. And this aspect will be destroyed through an opportunistic mentality, that demands benefits galore without any drabwacks, even if those are only superficial.
I can't choose to role play that my vampire character uses illusion magic or makeup at times? Seems your statement is more about limiting the RP aspect of an MMORPG.
1. Illusion magic doesn't work with that type of vampire, this was made clear in another thread relating to some NPC who does that.
2. It is very difficult at best to apply makeup, once again, without a mirror image.
Don't like the look? Cure it.
I though we established that lack of a mirror image isn't canon for this branch of Elder Scrolls vampire.
I think he just brought that up because people were pulling vampire "lore" from every glampire novelists from the past 40 years, while selectively omitting some slightly more horrifying interpretations of this myth. It's there to mock people who are fixated on this issue and can't just except accept that the developers have the ultimate vision on this and the current one isn't totally flawed. If they change it, it's their call, and hopefully if they make some changes they will be ones that encourage vampires to play as vampires, instead of just getting a passive line and forgetting they are actually vampires.
sorry had to grammar police myself.Edited by AhPook_Is_Here on August 24, 2018 3:18PM“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭@kelces at some point only playing devil's advocate just leaves you arguing for the sake of arguing and baiting people. It's a solid tool when you have a goal in mind, and not doing it just because.
You are right, I just waste my time here.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0
This discussion has been closed.