The Real Reason Healers "Arnt needed"

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

I agree. Less oneshots+more consistent damage will create a more healthy environment where tanks and healers are needed.
Because people skip oneshots with high dps, which results in no damage taken, and if the damage would be spread more evenly across the board, it would be harder to just pop shield and keep dpsing.

CompM4s · August 2018

Most Dps can self sustain their own heals, and having one more dps adds more damage than thr buffs a healer would provide. I personally run a pet sorc and that burst heal gives more than enough heals for the vet dungeons. Other than the occasional "oh crap" heal I can just help burn.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO · August 2018

It's not only one-shot mechanics, it's also the insane amount of off-healing classes can produce without speccing into it.
I remember 2.5/3 years ago vDSA done with one tank and 3 Templars because of their damage/self-healing skills, now atm it's magicka NBs who are partially causing the same issue.
As long as healing scales on damage we'll have the issue, perhaps only taking the base spell damage of the weapon only (plus eventually your max stat ) and making that Mundus stone, weapon trait and Healing CPs make a bigger difference in the value of your healing would work, but everybody, apart from healers, will cry they can't solo things anymore.

Tasear · August 2018

Just want to say your class representatives are listening to your concerns.

Kel · August 2018

weedgenius wrote: »

Class reps did not say they think healers aren't needed because of shields, etc. That came from Wrobel, the combat designer.

Yes..I feel like alot of players are putting the blame on the class reps for this simply because they were honest and put this in their report.

This idea come from Wrobel, guys. Don't blame the class reps for this. They are also against this idea. The class reps can't do much if the feedback they give is ignored.

ATomiX96 · August 2018

Well this games' damage mechanics are designed to be either compensated with offheal hots from a nightblade or one shot you (at least in dungeon environment) therefore no real reason to bring a healer if the tank doesnt need one.

VaranisArano · August 2018

tunepunk wrote: »

Instead of healing it would be good if healers had better pro-active skills, like strong shields, to help team survive strong boss AOE's etc, so viable tactics would be....

"C'mon guys, it's ok to stand in stupid. I got your back with strong shields and strong mitigation buffs"...

One example is vet Tempest island last boss, or engine guardian. Instead of moving away when the strong AOE is coming, a pro-active healer would apply strong shields and mitigation on the team so dps, and tank can carry on without moving out of stupid, losing dps.

If healers hade more pro-active skills than reactive they would probably be more useful in groups.

Then a good healer who know's the mechanics of the fight, know's when to apply those short strong shields and buffs.

The heal check on Engine Guardian is one of the best healer-required mechanics. Sure, the group can follow mechanics and hit the levers with a bit of coordination. But the most effective method of stack-n-burn-the-boss requires a healer who can heal the team through the poison phase without the DDs having to skip a beat.

kathandira · August 2018

The run I did last night in Arx Corinium was proof that healers are needed.

Stupid tank decided it would be super cool to pull bosses and trash packs together. Like mid boss, he would run away, and grab adds from another room. Never asked the healer (me) if I can handle it, nor did he think to at least give me a heads up that this is the way he was going to be running the dungeon. Fortunately, I can absolutely handle my own as a healer, and kept us all alive through it all, but had I not been there, it would have been wipe after wipe.

I'll concede that with 4 players who can communicate, know the encounters, and have support skills slotted, you likely can run without a healer, but I would never trust a random group that doesn't have one. Which is why I AM the healer, to make sure one is present at all times, lol.

angelncelestine · August 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Ok the new class rep report says that healer dont feel necessary because of shields, I dont think this is entirely actuate.

The real reason that healers arnt needed is that an overwhelming amount of mechanics are focused around avoiding the damage or being completely one shot. This applies to every newer dlc dungeon.

Its either dont stand here or hold block for this and if you dont your dead. There isnt much a healer can do about someone standing in stupid.

I have to agree. I hear people say this all the time. There are definitely way to many one shot mechanics being added to the newer dungeons and not enough damage that needs to be healed through. Who needs a healer when you are going to die to a one shot regardless if you have a healer or not. The problem I see with magicka nb is that there damage spamable (funnel health)also heals the party. Unlike Templar’s sweeps that only heals the individual. They also have a dot(refreshing path)that heals. I can’t forget to mention sap essence, another damage skill that heals. Who needs a healer when you have all of those heals thrown out with no consequence to damage.

Inarre · August 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

A healer's healing job is to keep guys topped off at 100%, so they can barely survive the one shot, and also to give them the SPC buff (if that's what you're still running for Major Courage).

But yes, there's a lot less healing to do than in other games, shields are only a small part of the reason, and self-heals aren't the biggest reason either.

There's also almost no purging to do, because most of the dangerous DoTs and other conditions are unpurgeable.

Agree, and the mechanics that are purgable can be completely avoided by dps (example: poison plants in the beginning of bloodroot forge....)

ezio45 · August 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

Class reps did not say they think healers aren't needed because of shields, etc. That came from Wrobel, the combat designer.

Yes..I feel like alot of players are putting the blame on the class reps for this simply because they were honest and put this in their report.

This idea come from Wrobel, guys. Don't blame the class reps for this. They are also against this idea. The class reps can't do much if the feedback they give is ignored.

not trying to blame anyone just giving my thoughts on it

ezio45 · August 2018

also just to be clear im talking about dungeons, healers will always be needed for trials

max_only · September 2018

Well I guess they listened to us guys! Time to dust off our shoes and call it a job well done! Healers don’t get shields either.

Inarre · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

Well I guess they listened to us guys! Time to dust off our shoes and call it a job well done! Healers don’t get shields either.

Did they increase the cast time of resto staff wards? From what I could read that was one of the few shields that escaped this treatment.

Smasherx74 · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Ok the new class rep report says that healer dont feel necessary because of shields, I dont think this is entirely actuate.

The real reason that healers arnt needed is that an overwhelming amount of mechanics are focused around avoiding the damage or being completely one shot. This applies to every newer dlc dungeon.

Its either dont stand here or hold block for this and if you dont your dead. There isnt much a healer can do about someone standing in stupid.

Just got back into the game after a short break, clearly the "class rep" doesn't know what he's talking about.

Healers can add anywhere from 10-30k more DPS with the right abilities and sets.

Jinchuu · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

also just to be clear im talking about dungeons, healers will always be needed for trials

The healer is going to be dead on the ground right next to every other mag character's corpse thanks to shields being dumpsterjuice

Ragged_Claw · September 2018

Yep, they are over-relying on one-shot mechanics to produce difficulty in these new dungeons/trials, as already pointed out, healers can do nothing about that and nerfing shields is not going to do anything helpful. Healers ARE needed, just maybe not in the older dungeons when playing on high level characters, but there are plenty of new players running dungeons who 'stand in stupid', not their fault, we all had to learn and we all got saved by healers. I don't understand at all what they hope to gain by nerfing shields, one-shot mechanics still can't be healed through and will kill you, shield or no.

Perhaps they could look at buffing healers, giving their skill-lines a nice refresh or being more imaginitive with new content, i.e. something other than 'one-shots', something that the healer could, well heal through. It strikes me that it is their content that is to blame for healers feeling unnecessary, but we flimsy sorcs are paying the price.

weedgenius · September 2018

Smasherx74 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ok the new class rep report says that healer dont feel necessary because of shields, I dont think this is entirely actuate.

The real reason that healers arnt needed is that an overwhelming amount of mechanics are focused around avoiding the damage or being completely one shot. This applies to every newer dlc dungeon.

Its either dont stand here or hold block for this and if you dont your dead. There isnt much a healer can do about someone standing in stupid.

Just got back into the game after a short break, clearly the "class rep" doesn't know what he's talking about.

Healers can add anywhere from 10-30k more DPS with the right abilities and sets.

@Smasherx74 Once again I just want to say that OP's post is misleading because class reps DID NOT say this. This came from Wrobel, the combat designer, during a meeting with class reps.

JamieAubrey · September 2018

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Soooo either they buff healing or they nerf Shields

I know what one they will choose →→→→↑

Well sh** they did it

Urvoth · September 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Just want to say your class representatives are listening to your concerns.

Well considering shields were never brought up as being broken...

daemonor · September 2018

I feel like the old dungeons were designed to be run with a healer, as taking a 3rd non "balling" dps is usually just shooting yourself in the foot and doesn't make stuff easier at all..meanwhile the newer dlc dungeons, like everyone had already stated, have only 1 shot mechanics which don't require a healer at all.

f047ys3v3n · September 2018

Healers are not needed or wanted because:

1) self heals is pretty strong on most builds
2) DPS is the answer to almost everything in ESO. The dps checks are crazy high because ZOS essentially scales for cheat engine users. 3 DPS makes everything much easier as well as much quicker and in some cases makes it possible.
3) There is no health pool for healers to keep up. We all run flat min health because DPS is the answer to everything.
4) Most mechanics are die or avoid.
5) Many new mechanics try to avoid stacking but have the main effect of making healers useless as the only really good heal is springs. Breath costs too much and is really just an overheal.
6) mNB's did have good passive heals in a 4 man group.

Sheilds were never a part of it. Sheilds were what you cast to give your self heals / healer / nb time to HoT you back to health because otherwise nobody can react fast enough to somebody else taking damage, who has almost no health, to keep them alive.