Please remove the "in front of you" from healing spells

Jeremy · August 2018

Artemiisia wrote: »

how many heals skill do we actually talk about here?

combat prayer and?

Well, one of the Templar's better heals is ritual of Retribution like I mentioned - which requires you to position yourself between the tank and ranged classes. So I guess every time I want to heal the ranged classes with breath of life I have to spin my camera around to look at them? That's just silly I'm sorry. I hope for my sake the boss doesn't do a move I need to block while I am spinning my camera around to stare at them...haha

I don't know what developer decided this would be a good idea - but I hope they re-think this very stupid change.

idk · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

No offense but this starts off as people need to be in front of the healer then the first heal brought up is the healer needs to move forward to place a heal on the ground that is a 360 degree heal.

Second, and this is most important, if a DPS chooses to stand behind the healer they can take care of themselves. Ofc, with a group on coms the healer, or raid leader, can tell them what to do.

As for fights that require the group to move often, thinking vAS and vCR, it is something healers seem able to handle just fine with the tools working as they are. Considering we cannot reliably target a player to heal to heal them the only choice is a PBAoE or forward cone type AoE heal for most of the heals. It really is the type of healing that works in this game.

Again, a great many healers have done fine with healing designed as it is while healing the most challenging content in the game.

Jeremy · August 2018

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

No offense but this starts off as people need to be in front of the healer then the first heal brought up is the healer needs to move forward to place a heal on the ground that is a 360 degree heal.

Second, and this is most important, if a DPS chooses to stand behind the healer they can take care of themselves. Ofc, with a group on coms the healer, or raid leader, can tell them what to do.

As for fights that require the group to move often, thinking vAS and vCR, it is something healers seem able to handle just fine with the tools working as they are. Considering we cannot reliably target a player to heal to heal them the only choice is a PBAoE or forward cone type AoE heal for most of the heals. It really is the type of healing that works in this game.

Again, a great many healers have done fine with healing designed as it is while healing the most challenging content in the game.

I'm getting the job done as well. So what? That isn't the point.

The point is this was a dumb change that just makes it more annoying to play as a healer. It doesn't improve the game play.

If you want to make healing more difficult - fine. But do it in a more interesting and enjoyable way. Requiring them to spin their camera around to look at their targets is not the way to do it. Especially when it doesn't even work correctly with our other abilities.

FakeFox · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

If DDs run around like headless chicken let them die so they learn it. DDs need to stand in front of the healer for effective performance and this is not because of smart target heals not hitting otherwise but because this allows for effective buffing. There is absolutely no reason why a range DD needs to stand 40 meters away from a boss.

Jeremy · August 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

If DDs run around like headless chicken let them die so they learn it. DDs need to stand in front of the healer for effective performance and this is not because of smart target heals not hitting otherwise but because this allows for effective buffing. There is absolutely no reason why a range DD needs to stand 40 meters away from a boss.

Certain fights require them to run around to kill adds or dodge Area Attacks.

It's just not feasible to expect damage dealers to always stay in front of the healer.

Reverb · August 2018

Artemiisia wrote: »

how many heals skill do we actually talk about here?

combat prayer and?

And Breath of Life / Honor the Dead. And maybe some Warden healing spells.

It wouldn't be bad at all, except the mechanics in all the newer dungeons and trials force people to break apart and stay on the move. I actually like those mechanics, it's a nice change from "stack and burn", but its enough of a challenge as the healer to respect the mechanics, stay moving and don't get killed, while keeping everyone in healing range while they run around, AND have to be facing the person who takes the hit and needs a burst heal.

I'm actually afraid to post how I handle it, for fear of it being nerfed.

idk · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

No offense but this starts off as people need to be in front of the healer then the first heal brought up is the healer needs to move forward to place a heal on the ground that is a 360 degree heal.

Second, and this is most important, if a DPS chooses to stand behind the healer they can take care of themselves. Ofc, with a group on coms the healer, or raid leader, can tell them what to do.

As for fights that require the group to move often, thinking vAS and vCR, it is something healers seem able to handle just fine with the tools working as they are. Considering we cannot reliably target a player to heal to heal them the only choice is a PBAoE or forward cone type AoE heal for most of the heals. It really is the type of healing that works in this game.

Again, a great many healers have done fine with healing designed as it is while healing the most challenging content in the game.

I'm getting the job done as well. So what? That isn't the point.

The point is this was a dumb change that just makes it more annoying to play as a healer. It doesn't improve the game play.

If you want to make healing more difficult - fine. But do it in a more interesting and enjoyable way. Requiring them to spin their camera around to look at their targets is not the way to do it. Especially when it doesn't even work correctly with our other abilities.

Yet you fail to address managing the groups position which is key to effective healing in pretty much any game since pretty much every healer I have seen has an AoE which requires players to be in position to receive it.

That is the key. Considering you are complaining about forward heals and heals that hit everyone in a radius you do seem to be complaining about healing in general. Maybe roll a DPS.

Tasear · August 2018

It's the type healing Templars do. "Protecting the house". I think you should look at other classes in then case.

Jeremy · August 2018

Reverb wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

how many heals skill do we actually talk about here?

combat prayer and?

And Breath of Life / Honor the Dead. And maybe some Warned healing spells.

It wouldn't be bad at all, except the mechanics in all the newer dungeons and trials force people to break apart and stay on the move. I actually like those mechanics, it's a nice change from "stack and burn", but its enough of a challenge as the healer to respect the mechanics, stay moving and don't get killed, while keeping everyone in healing range while they run around, AND have to be facing the person who takes the hit and needs a burst heal.

I'm actually afraid to post how I handle it, for fear of it being nerfed.

Well said.

It's enough trouble as it is just staying in range to heal your targets while running around dodging - let alone having to make eye contact with them as well.

These people who suggest healers don't have to move on this game and just sit still like lazy butts are either not being honest about playing as healers or playing a different Elder Scrolls Online game than I am.

Jeremy · August 2018

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

Healer stays in the back. It is a strategic point for someone important to be in the back.

That doesn't really jive with the Templar class design.

Their abilities require them to get in close and lay down buffs for the group - a protect your house kind of style as Taesar described it - which I thought was a pretty good way to put it.

They aren't designed to run around behind the group. You can't make effective use of a lot of their abilities if you play like that.

Jeremy · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

It's the type healing Templars do. "Protecting the house". I think you should look at other classes in then case.

As I pointed out in my OP - this change to the way breath of life targets doesn't even cooperate with the Templar classe's other abilities - such as ritual of retribution - which requires the Templar to position between the tank and ranged DPS for the full group to enjoy its effects - which means the ranged DPS classes are going to be behind the Templar and not in front.

All I can guess is the original designer of the Templar Class is no longer employed - because these new changes make no sense.

Tasear · August 2018

Have concerns about healing? Join us in healers discord https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9

Jeremy · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Have concerns about healing? Join us in healers discord https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9

Appreciate the invite.

I may check it out. ^^

Tasear · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Have concerns about healing? Join us in healers discord https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9

Appreciate the invite.

I may check it out. ^^

Nothing to lose and everything to gain. Let your voice be heard! Your class reps will be listening and understanding concerns.

Micah_Bayer · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

Healer stays in the back. It is a strategic point for someone important to be in the back.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

For PvE, maybe, its annoying since healing there is a whackamole with mechanics on everyone. But for PvP its already super easy to just tap buttons and heal whoever from the safety of the group the 180 limit isn't even enough and there should be more complexity to it.

So it got nerfed for the sake of PVP.

Lets just throw that onto the burning pile of things it's taken from PVE at large.

Healing is easy anywhere but maybe trial HMs. PvP isn’t to blame for every shortcoming this game has, as much as some people on here would like to believe that.

Neversaid it was. Just said it was responsible for this particular design decision, which sucks for PVE.

Jeremy · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

For PvE, maybe, its annoying since healing there is a whackamole with mechanics on everyone. But for PvP its already super easy to just tap buttons and heal whoever from the safety of the group the 180 limit isn't even enough and there should be more complexity to it.

So it got nerfed for the sake of PVP.

Lets just throw that onto the burning pile of things it's taken from PVE at large.

Healing is easy anywhere but maybe trial HMs. PvP isn’t to blame for every shortcoming this game has, as much as some people on here would like to believe that.

Neversaid it was. Just said it was responsible for this particular design decision, which sucks for PVE.

It probably was.

Most stupid changes to PvE are because of PvP.

I wish they would just separate PvE from PvP on games.

Jeremy · August 2018

Deleted

Double post

kathandira · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

Personally, I like it. Standing in one place and healing, only moving out of the way of attacks can get really boring. I like having to be more situationally aware.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

It's the type healing Templars do. "Protecting the house". I think you should look at other classes in then case.

Except that ZOS is moving away from "stack and burn" idea (which is a good thing btw), and it doesnt work well with this housing concept.
New bosses do not allow you to stand in your house. They will huff and puff and you're dead.

kathandira · August 2018

Naughty_Ryder wrote: »

You should be able to select your target to be healed... I hate the healing mechanics in ESO - I have been a healer for over 10 years across many MMO’s and its amazing. ESO is healing cancer

This would be a problem on a console. Since we don't have a pointer to move around the screen like you do on PC, we can't select the person to heal from the group list. Targeting a player for heals on consoles would be a nightmare.

Jeremy · August 2018

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was always like this (I don't remember it being this way in the beginning for some reason) but I have never played a game where in order to heal an ally you have to face the camera toward them first.

It's annoying.

Especially for a Templar - who has abilities like Ritual of Retribution that places an area of effect on the ground. So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

So I don't really see the point of this. It's nothing but a nuisance and adds nothing of value to the game play.

Healer stays in the back. It is a strategic point for someone important to be in the back.

That style of play doesn't jive with the Templar's design.

They have a lot of abilities that require them to get in close and lay down buffs for the group. A protect your house kind of style as Tasear described it, which I thought was a good way to put it. So you can't make effective use of a lot of your abilities if you just run around behind your group to keep everyone in front of you. That's why this change to the way breath of life targets makes no sense for the Templar Class.

I suspect Doctor is correct and this was just another appeasement for PvP players who didn't want their endless murder of other players interrupted by healers.

Jeremy · August 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Healers staying in the back is death in PvP, no protection from NB flank attack PvE mobs aren't smart enough to do that.
Why they are usually in the middle of a PvP group and hence why 360 heals were in the game to start with.
Warden was introduced so to sell it Templar heals had to be gutted.

Well that would explain why they changed it then if it means death for healers to stay in the back on PvP. Because this game's PvP is obsessed with making sure healers die quick and horrible deaths so no wonder they implemented a change that would require them to stay in the back where death awaits them. ^^

TequilaFire · August 2018

Healers staying in the back is death in PvP, no protection from NB flank attack PvE mobs aren't smart enough to do that.
Why they are usually in the middle of a PvP group and hence why 360 heals were in the game to start with.
Warden was introduced so to sell it Templar heals had to be gutted.

Jeremy · August 2018

kathandira wrote: »

Naughty_Ryder wrote: »

You should be able to select your target to be healed... I hate the healing mechanics in ESO - I have been a healer for over 10 years across many MMO’s and its amazing. ESO is healing cancer

This would be a problem on a console. Since we don't have a pointer to move around the screen like you do on PC, we can't select the person to heal from the group list. Targeting a player for heals on consoles would be a nightmare.

Most games you can simply use the control pad to choose your target from the party member list and pick the one who is losing health. So I don't see why it should be an issue for console.

kathandira · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

how many heals skill do we actually talk about here?

combat prayer and?

Well, one of the Templar's better heals is ritual of Retribution like I mentioned - which requires you to position yourself between the tank and ranged classes. So I guess every time I want to heal the ranged classes with breath of life I have to spin my camera around to look at them? That's just silly I'm sorry. I hope for my sake the boss doesn't do a move I need to block while I am spinning my camera around to stare at them...haha

I don't know what developer decided this would be a good idea - but I hope they re-think this very stupid change.

I just run to the tank, drop the Ritual, then move back to ranged. It takes a quick second to do it. It's really not a big deal at all.

kathandira · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

If DDs run around like headless chicken let them die so they learn it. DDs need to stand in front of the healer for effective performance and this is not because of smart target heals not hitting otherwise but because this allows for effective buffing. There is absolutely no reason why a range DD needs to stand 40 meters away from a boss.

Certain fights require them to run around to kill adds or dodge Area Attacks.

It's just not feasible to expect damage dealers to always stay in front of the healer.

Situational Awareness.

If a healer knows that there is a phase where the DPS has to kill Adds, then that healers should know when that will happen, and to position themselves well enough to heal the tank and the DPS at the same time.

Jeremy · August 2018

kathandira wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

how many heals skill do we actually talk about here?

combat prayer and?

Well, one of the Templar's better heals is ritual of Retribution like I mentioned - which requires you to position yourself between the tank and ranged classes. So I guess every time I want to heal the ranged classes with breath of life I have to spin my camera around to look at them? That's just silly I'm sorry. I hope for my sake the boss doesn't do a move I need to block while I am spinning my camera around to stare at them...haha

I don't know what developer decided this would be a good idea - but I hope they re-think this very stupid change.

I just run to the tank, drop the Ritual, then move back to ranged. It takes a quick second to do it. It's really not a big deal at all.

We disagree about that.

I think it wastes important time you could be doing something else with. Not to mention it just feels dumb having to keep running in and out like that and disrupts any groove the game play might get into. It was much better before this change.

Jeremy · August 2018

kathandira wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So in order to fit the entire party into the circle you typically have to center yourself between the tank and the ranged classes. So I suppose when a ranged character needs healing I'm suppose to spin my camera around to face them before healing? And that's not to mention fights where everyone is running around frantically killing things... often in circles behind me or to my sides... and rarely in front.

If DDs run around like headless chicken let them die so they learn it. DDs need to stand in front of the healer for effective performance and this is not because of smart target heals not hitting otherwise but because this allows for effective buffing. There is absolutely no reason why a range DD needs to stand 40 meters away from a boss.

Certain fights require them to run around to kill adds or dodge Area Attacks.

It's just not feasible to expect damage dealers to always stay in front of the healer.

Situational Awareness.

If a healer knows that there is a phase where the DPS has to kill Adds, then that healers should know when that will happen, and to position themselves well enough to heal the tank and the DPS at the same time.

This isn't about "situational awareness".

You have to be situationaly aware on this game regardless if you have to stare at your target to heal them with breath of life or not.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Healers staying in the back is death in PvP, no protection from NB flank attack PvE mobs aren't smart enough to do that.
Why they are usually in the middle of a PvP group and hence why 360 heals were in the game to start with.
Warden was introduced so to sell it Templar heals had to be gutted.

Well in some pve situations healers have to stay behind the group, but it's not for their safety, it's for the group safety because theyre kiting boss jumps, for example.
I dont think they gutted templars to sell wardens, but this "any class can play any role" direction has been harmful for templars because ZOS is always trying to take away their class identity and doesnt give anything in return. I mean, it would work if templars were great dds and tanks... But almost all templars on leaderboards are healers. Templars have nothing except their healing focus, compared to nbs and sorcs they lack mobility and dps, they dont have any decent ccs and stamina management to be tanks... Even their somewhat unique dual wield/destro playstyle has been nerfed into oblivion.