Dear ZOS, A Cyrodiil Plea

Defatank · August 2018

Dear Zenimax,

I want to preface this by saying I love ESO and have been a heavy supporter of the game since playing it back in 2013 to 2015 and coming back to the game in 2016 up to present. You all had a rough start, but over all you have recovered nicely from where things began. I am not making this thread for flaming, insulting or any other form of negativity it is simply a frustration post of issues that have been plaguing the game for 4 years now and I would greatly appreciate your time reading this.

The performance of Cyrodiil has been something since the beginning of the game that I would say is at best a coin toss of wither the game will run smoothly and people have fun versus the issues I am about to bring up below. Just to put this out there. I have seen these issues on 2 different machines that exceed recommended specifications to play the game and will play other games without any issues like I see inside ESO. My ISP delivers 100Mbps download and 12Mbps upload which is more than enough to play anything online. I have also tried disabling every single addon and playing the game stock right out of the box and still have the same problems. To say the least the issue is far from being anything on my side which is why I turn to you.

1) The lag: Sometimes I sit around 110ms ping, others I average 250ms Ping and then the horrid side of dealing with 500ms+ ping. I can always tell when the worse lag is hitting because things in bullet point 2 start happening.

2) Abilities, Doors, Potions, something please work?: I will press abilities to go off and you can see the depression of the ability trying to fire, left clicking to shoot my staff and my character holds his arms in the air only to fire 6 fireballs out in a .2 sec timeframe while twitching vigorously, hitting that potion to heal myself? yea I hear it going off like it wants to work and can see the button depressing but nope nadda, Got a horde of enemies on your tail and your right at the door trying to get in?!?!? E > E> E> E > LET ME IN! I'm in! YES! NO! I'm back outside! OH CRAP! E > E > E > I'M BACK IN! WHEW CLOSE.... OUT AGAIN! and dead -.-

3) HELP AT <insert keep here>: I'M COMING!!!!! long ride down only to discover EVERYONE isn't moving..... and now I'm moving at supersonic speed..... AND DISCONNECTED. Relogging back into the game..... "Unable to connect, you dont have a valid internet connection....." Hmm my wife is playing on the internet just fine..... my discord is still working and talking to people. Try logging in again, get to character screen. Loading into cyrodiil, kicked again..... Logging in again, Error 303 already logged in? Your troubleshooter says wait 5 min and try again..... I wait 5 min and log back in, yay! oh wait..... now I'm in belkarth..... I guess I'll have to requeue cyrodiil on a friday night primetime..... Queue position 143 O_O........ ALL THIS JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE YELLED THEY NEEDED HELP AT <insert keep here>.......

Additionally I would like to add I have friends that play ESO as well and they encounter the same problems and I am constantly seeing the same frustration and irritation from other players in zone chat as well. Again ZOS I think you guys have made some phenomenal improvements from what the game was doing back in 2015 versus the current game but these issues I bring up are issues that should NOT be happening at this point 4 years into a live game.

I am currently paying an ESO+ subscription to the game and have been paying it since I returned back in december 2016 to present. When I played back in 2014 to 2015 on the live game I also held a sub that entire time too. I will continue to pay the sub in support of your company and more importantly the game itself and I believe there are plenty of other people out there doing the exact same thing so please ensure us that our money is being used to correct the critical core performance issues of the game itself so we can all enjoy what you have created and will continue to create.

Thank You,
Defatank

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_BrianWheeler

eso_lags · August 2018

Another lovely thread that will go unanswered by zos. 100%.. But let me add to this a few questions that im going to ask the good people @ zos every chance i get...

Can a game have competitive play if its unbalanced?

Can a game have competitive play if it has terrible performance?

Can a game have competitve play if it performs terribly and is unbalanced?

Well my answer is no but i wonder what anyone from zos would say. I think im going to put this in my sig.

Bhaal5 · August 2018

Unfortunately the care factor on their behalf is down to zero.... Game is to old now to make any sudden changes that would make it worth playing... Summerset and upcoming dlc's are examples of a developer giving up and riding the money train until it dies

Gilvoth · August 2018

thank you for saying what we all are feeling, i dont know if this helps, but:
"you are not alone, we are feeling those same problems as you"

MajBludd · August 2018

Most of my lag comes from windows 10. I can't tell you how many times it causes lag and disconnects for me.

Ectheliontnacil · August 2018

This ought to be good.

usmguy1234 · August 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

Another lovely thread that will go unanswered by zos. 100%.. But let me add to this a few questions that im going to ask the good people @ zos every chance i get...

Can a game have competitive play if its unbalanced?

Can a game have competitive play if it has terrible performance?

Can a game have competitve play if it performs terribly and is unbalanced?

Well my answer is no but i wonder what anyone from zos would say. I think im going to put this in my sig.

If the game was perfectly "balanced" (what an ambiguous term that is) I promise you that more people would have left this game out of boredom than the people who have left the game in it's current unbalanced state. That being said sheer unbridled balance flaws can be just as harmful to the health of the game. However, what is ideal is sight deviations of 10-15%. If you are interested, there are a lot of good videos from pax about game design and balance. Watch a few of those and you'll understand more.

On the other hand, performance issues in this day in age are unacceptable and absolutely must be addressed.

vamp_emily · August 2018

MajBludd wrote: »

Most of my lag comes from windows 10. I can't tell you how many times it causes lag and disconnects for me.

lol, it is not windows 10. Don't blame microsoft for eso issues.

usmguy1234 · August 2018

vamp_emily wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Most of my lag comes from windows 10. I can't tell you how many times it causes lag and disconnects for me.

lol, it is not windows 10. Don't blame microsoft for eso issues.

Can concur, streaming only amplifies the issues already there...and from my experience it does by a lot.

Chaos2088 · August 2018

Brutal honesty....I don't like to be...."that guy".....but I doubt it will ever get fixed.

LadyLavina · August 2018

@Defatank

They've been saying for years that Cyrodiil is a "top priority" but the same latency issues have happened the entire time.

I like where your head is at with this, but your thread falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

gp1680 · August 2018

Great post op. Unfortunately, ZOS no longer cares. If they do, they have an odd way of communicating it.

LadyLavina · August 2018

gp1680 wrote: »

Great post op. Unfortunately, ZOS no longer cares. If they do, they have an odd way of communicating it.

ZOS doesn't understand what communication is. Previous patches and ignored feedback threads , among many other things, are evidence of the apathy they harbor towards the wishes of the player base.

Ydrisselle · August 2018

LadyLavina wrote: »

@Defatank

They've been saying for years that Cyrodiil is a "top priority" but the same latency issues have happened the entire time.

I like where your head is at with this, but your thread falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

Or they still don't have any solution for the situation. Yeah, I know, it's impossible that maybe they have to rewrite half of the game to have any difference and don't want to do it... :P

gp1680 · August 2018

Ydrisselle wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

@Defatank

They've been saying for years that Cyrodiil is a "top priority" but the same latency issues have happened the entire time.

I like where your head is at with this, but your thread falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

Or they still don't have any solution for the situation. Yeah, I know, it's impossible that maybe they have to rewrite half of the game to have any difference and don't want to do it... :P

I agree, but then they should be honest with the player base and come out and say it, instead of making stickys about performance and the periodic “we’re working on it” comments from certain ZOS spokespeople.

LadyLavina · August 2018

Ydrisselle wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

@Defatank

They've been saying for years that Cyrodiil is a "top priority" but the same latency issues have happened the entire time.

I like where your head is at with this, but your thread falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

Or they still don't have any solution for the situation. Yeah, I know, it's impossible that maybe they have to rewrite half of the game to have any difference and don't want to do it... :P

I feel ya, I'd be totally fine with the situation if they'd just communicate thats what it is. I'm not a game programmer myself but I do some web/app development and I understand from experience how time consuming it can be to rip out a major module and rework it. I can't imagine what something on the scale of ESO must be like for em.

I can appreciate the incremental measures taken, but honestly with Cyrodiil/PvP being 50% of the entire equation, they'd be better off taking the game down until the issue is resolved. You'd have some angry idiots, but the adults among us would at least be able to look at such a move and go "Yeah, unpleasant, but makes sense."

Idk. Bleh. #BitterVetPlayer

lygerseye · August 2018

Wow... It’s almost like you were running in our guild raid last night. I’d only add this:

4) Loading screens. Either: A) miles from the nearest keep when <BAM!> loading screen out of nowhere, or B ) Died and rezzing at a forward camp... Expected loading screen... Not going away... Hear over TS “enemy raid coming over the hill!”... Still waiting to rez... “They’re hitting the Camp!”... Still waiting... I finally rez!... And I’m DOA.

geonsocal · August 2018

and the answer is:
a). we know what's wrong - fixing it is too expensive.

b). we know what's wrong, and, despite 2 plus years of increasingly serious issues - we really do think we can fix it.

c). we have no idea what's wrong.

the reason we don't like too talk about our game's performance is:

a). it's embarrassing, and there's nothing we can do about it.

b). it's not really that terrible/game breaking; and, maybe one day all the performance issues will magically go away, and no one will remember them.

c). we really have no idea what's wrong,
so, no matter what we say - it ain't gonna sound good.

Plodeoca · August 2018

Here! I’m another player having the same identical issues!!
I’ve got a great internet connection, an high-end game PC and i’m still having issues in cyrodiil.
I’m on PC EU, testing my internet speed connection i get only 56ms Ping with Berlin by my position, but when i enter cyrodiil my latency goes crazy. (I’m on windows 7 and the system isn’t a problem for the lag) The real problem is not the 200+ standard latency, the real problem is the jump of the latency between all the values! In a fight it can go by 200 to 100 to 600 just in 3 seconds, making any rotation or defensive istance close to impossible.
I hope atleast THIS post, between thousands (like this) will be listened and token in consideration.

Ragebull · August 2018

They won’t fix anything because they don’t know how. They won’t admit that because it would be admitting that they have employees who aren’t trained enough working on a game that obligates the players to pay routinely. The fear of people walking away because they realize it’s amateur hour at ZOS is what keeps them lying and quiet

Waffennacht · August 2018

Gonna guess, PvP isn't as popular as PvE

Then I'm gonna say, we in BGs welcome your experience in PvP with open arms

Luckylancer · August 2018

usmguy1234 wrote: »

If the game was perfectly "balanced" (what an ambiguous term that is) I promise you that more people would have left this game out of boredom than the people who have left the game in it's current unbalanced state. That being said sheer unbridled balance flaws can be just as harmful to the health of the game. However, what is ideal is sight deviations of 10-15%. If you are interested, there are a lot of good videos from pax about game design and balance. Watch a few of those and you'll understand more.

This is so wrong. First of all who said "perfect balance"TM? A set called sload was supposed to be nerfed before release. They change a calculation and a class dies for months, no one cares. Weakest class in pvp gets harder nerfs while stongest class. Can you see what you are defending? There is absolute unbalance here.

At eso good things happen too but lacking parts are hard to miss.

Stewart1874 · August 2018

I get so frustrated with ZOS and it gets very easy just to *** on everything they do. I'm a PvE player, always have been always will be but that doesn't mean I don't want to give PVP a shot. The issue is obviously without wholesale changes to my character I can't play PVP with any real competence.

I think allowing players to use pre-set builds created by ZOS which players can select upon entry to cyrodil to create a better more engaging PVP experience would help PVE players get involved. Before established PVPers lose their *** at the idea of not having easy pickings v PVEers wandering into Cyrodil I think you just need to ask yourself why ZOS have released so little PVP content. You cater to numbers and it doesn't seem like the numbers are there for much PVP content without radical change (like what i'm suggesting). Anyway a competent build doesn't mean meta, just usable.

Disadvantages like a 10% reduction in AP gain could be included as part of these pre-set classes.

usmguy1234 · August 2018

Luckylancer wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

If the game was perfectly "balanced" (what an ambiguous term that is) I promise you that more people would have left this game out of boredom than the people who have left the game in it's current unbalanced state. That being said sheer unbridled balance flaws can be just as harmful to the health of the game. However, what is ideal is sight deviations of 10-15%. If you are interested, there are a lot of good videos from pax about game design and balance. Watch a few of those and you'll understand more.

This is so wrong. First of all who said "perfect balance"TM? A set called sload was supposed to be nerfed before release. They change a calculation and a class dies for months, no one cares. Weakest class in pvp gets harder nerfs while stongest class. Can you see what you are defending? There is absolute unbalance here.

At eso good things happen too but lacking parts are hard to miss.

I'm going to take it you didn't read the rest of my statement... cool.

Defatank · August 2018

I appreciate everyone's feedback thus far.

I came across something else that I have never once witnessed in this game until tonight. Multiple attempts at BRK on Vivec, AD had control of the Keep and EP was trying to take it back. TRYING being the keyword, especially when none of the walls were taking damage from trebs, ballista's, catapults, hell we could have thrown the kitchen sink at the walls and it would have done 0 damage....

EVENTUALLY we found on the North Outer wall with the door on it that we could shoot right at the very base of the wall on the ground and get the wall to take damage..... After we finally made it into the courtyard we were then presented with the same results we found outside walls doing. We could do no damage to either postern no matter what equipment we used or where we shot the wall. The front door also was taking 0 damage from trebs, ballista, catapult, but by a miracle a ram was able to do damage. The outer front door from prior attempts would just sit there looking at the door but the inner managed to take damage. Eventually we were able to take the keep back, but this..... I dont know what to say for this......

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Thank you,
Defatank

Elong · August 2018

Defatank wrote: »

I appreciate everyone's feedback thus far.

I came across something else that I have never once witnessed in this game until tonight. Multiple attempts at BRK on Vivec, AD had control of the Keep and EP was trying to take it back. TRYING being the keyword, especially when none of the walls were taking damage from trebs, ballista's, catapults, hell we could have thrown the kitchen sink at the walls and it would have done 0 damage....

EVENTUALLY we found on the North Outer wall with the door on it that we could shoot right at the very base of the wall on the ground and get the wall to take damage..... After we finally made it into the courtyard we were then presented with the same results we found outside walls doing. We could do no damage to either postern no matter what equipment we used or where we shot the wall. The front door also was taking 0 damage from trebs, ballista, catapult, but by a miracle a ram was able to do damage. The outer front door from prior attempts would just sit there looking at the door but the inner managed to take damage. Eventually we were able to take the keep back, but this..... I dont know what to say for this......

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Thank you,
Defatank

If this was a PVE issue they'd bring the server down and hot fix it immediately.

The support for Cyrodiil is a disgrace.

FloppyTouch · August 2018

I'm afraid for them to "fix" it. Every time they had a performance fix update they have made things 100x worst. It's just terrible and then they revert the "changes" so its back to the normal lag and issues we are use to.

I really do believe they have no clue how to fix the lag.

geonsocal · August 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I'm afraid for them to "fix" it. Every time they had a performance fix update they have made things 100x worst. It's just terrible and then they revert the "changes" so its back to the normal lag and issues we are use to.

I really do believe they have no clue how to fix the lag.

i know this may sound like some tin foil hat stuff, but - as soon as the recent "freezing" in cyrodiil stopped - I started to see old glitches that I hadn't seen for many months...

like they rolled some stuff back, and, unearthed some older glitches that had gotten "patched" over at some point...

Beardimus · August 2018

If I'm honest, Xbox EU, I don't get these issues.

I do feel bar swap lag / delay but not all this stuff.

If I could have one thing fixed in Cyro it would be alliance switching and that's due to players crappy behavior rather than anything zos does

NupidStoob · August 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

Another lovely thread that will go unanswered by zos. 100%.. But let me add to this a few questions that im going to ask the good people @ zos every chance i get...

Can a game have competitive play if its unbalanced?

Can a game have competitive play if it has terrible performance?

Can a game have competitve play if it performs terribly and is unbalanced?

Well my answer is no but i wonder what anyone from zos would say. I think im going to put this in my sig.

1. Not even chess is balanced so I don't know why people talk as if that would be possible in a game with so many more variables. So yes a game can totally be competitive if it's unbalanced. LoL certainly isn't balanced and yet has one of the biggest esports scenes out there.

2. If the performance impacts all players the same way then yes. I agree though that general performance in ESO is bad and needs addressing. Not for the sake of competitiveness though, but simply for customer satisfaction.

3. Kind of answered in 1 and 2.

I am confused about this sort of post, because as far as I can tell ZoS is not advertising ESO as a super competitive PvP game. Even with way better performance and more "balance" ESO wouldn't develop an esport scene.

terrannova · August 2018

i made a similar post about this at the end of mayhem event. it got lots of attention by players, but no attention from any moderator or developer(of course not).

heres the link if interested
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427462/cyrodill-rant#latest

also at that time there was a big amount of posts like this one , but no answer again about anything. Also at that time when the current ESO Live took place all that was said about cyro performance was that it was going well. After that whole thing i canceled my ESO+ membership after 6months and i dont have any interest to play anymore.

Things in cyro have been like this for a couple years as far as i can tell (kept coming back to the game) and cyrodill remained the same.