VaranisArano wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Here comes the ''consider the new or go play Darksouls'' crowd. Ironically they forget to consider people who value immersion

I do value my immersion. My high DPS character is the Dark Brotherhood Silencer. Of course it makes perfect sense that she would be able to slaughter a supposedly powerful enemy!

But sure, I'll take the bait. How are you suggesting that ZOS balance overland questing for new players with no CP (I was level 19 when I finished Summerset, questing only in that zone) and vet players who do 20k+ DPS at the same time?
(For extra challenge, explain how its financially worthwhile for ZOS to develop that rebalancing from what they already have.)

We've all give numerous ways to make overland (especially delves and other instances) fun and challenging for all. They will need to have a normal and a vet version of instances at least. I proved in another thread that it is financially worthwhile when a poll of over 400 players on this forum produced 42% of players saying overland is too easy with only like 10% more saying it wasn't. I think that 42 is a pretty big chunk and someone at ZOS better not be taking that lightly. If they think this game is going to continue to thrive when all these berry pickers and solo players move to Elder Scrolls 6 and the newer MMOs I have a feeling you are mistaken. ZOS has to find a middle ground to keep not only the newer players engaged but also their Vets. In the end it's only going to be us veteran players helping to keep the lights on.

I'm getting real tired of people acting like a casual players opinion of the game carries more weight than mine, a player that has been here since the PC open betas and have stuck through the ups and downs with them. I've been a paying player for over 4 years now and bought every day expansion knowing full well unless I made a new character with no cp, no gear, 1 random skill, no food, and tied one of his virtual arms behind his back, I was paying for a whole new landmass I wouldn't get to enjoy unless I wanted story time , a new dungeon and a trial. It sure doesn't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth and as someone who gives a damn about this game I keep hanging on, hoping that my vote, my money, and my voice counts too.

Sorry for the rant...

I'm sorry that I can't find your poll to see the exact numbers but 42% of 400ish players is only 168 or so players. Sure, most ESO players don't frequent the forums, but I'm not sure that directly translates into "There's actually a large number of players who would totally buy normal/vet versions of overland content to offset the cost of redesigning it." Especially considering the extra workload this would place on the devs, who now have to balance for normal and vet overland, depending on how this is implemented or whether there are extra rewards for the vet modes. I suppose ZOS could do it the lazy way and simply double or triple mob health/damage, but I can tell you I wouldn't pay for that sort of lazy solution when I could get effectively the same result by rebuilding to do less damage or wear less armor. If there's a vet mode that I'm going to pay for and feel like its actually worthwhile, I'd expect ZOS to turn the overland questing into something closer to public dungeon difficulty or normal dungeon difficulty, and that's going to require adding mobs and beefing up quest boss mechanics.

I might be wrong. It might be the case that there actually is enough players who want to vet mode to make it financially feasible for ZOS to create, support, and balance for a normal and vet mode for overland questing (that isn't totally lazy more health, more damage). Heck, maybe there's a big market for even the lazy version of a vet overland. I doubt it, but I might be wrong.

I'm sorry you feel like your voice doesn't matter to the devs. Personally, I got the message loud and clear when ZOS chose to make the level up rewards contingent on leveling up a new character instead of making them retroactive for experienced players. ZOS wants new blood and new money. They've already got ours.

Here you go Varanis

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5191164#Comment_5191164

I agree with you. It would definitely have to be done right. Just adding more health to existing mobs and increasing their damage would be the lazy route and it wouldnt sell me either. I do think the only way they could do it correctly and not split the playerbase in overland is only by adding an increased difficulty to delves and other instances. That way the world is still populated by everyone yet the delves offering the challenge new and old are looking for. I think you mentioned a good point and that difficulty is going to have to include beefing up not only the boss but minion mechanics. I noticed in Summerset a lot more of the mobs are using knockdowns and things to begin making you think and react instead of just pushing 1,2,3,12,5. Hell it sounds silly but I get excited when a mob knocks me off my ass and I lose a tenth of health when other mobs are beating on me. It kinda fire up the adrenaline for a sec lol.

Truth is I don't have all of the numbers they have to really see what's going on. I can't tell that 80% of the players are spending way too long on certain encounters etc to know where and what to buff or if everything's just right. All I can go on is how currently the game is affecting my enjoyment of it and as a vet MMo gamer, I'm constantly trying to figure out why it's happening and what solutions I can offer up to the devs to help solve it. I've been MMoing since 97 and I'm sure a lot of others on this game have too. If we can all put our heads together and offer solid solutions instead of having the same forum people just saying NO, NO , NO we might come up with something the devs notice.

I really like this game. I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have if I didn't. I'm probably just getting a bit more irritated with ZOS too due to my Magden being ignored for over a year. It's still the best MMO on the market currently IMO and I definitely love seeing new blood pouring into Tamriel. Keeping that population growing is key. I also feel they need to make sure their vets are happy because without a strong core I don't think they'll last as long. They need to start expanding on some of their existing parts of the game (PVP, Vet overland delves, etc) because a new dungeon and a trial every few months is only going to be fun for so long. There was a poll a few days ago asking what the majority of the players do when they play and dungeons and trials were really low on that list. If I remember right questing lead by a large margin. Most of these casuals are going to get better and they're going to want a bit harder stuff to do since dungeons don't seem to be everyone's bag. It sounds like to me ZOS better start improving their questing for all skill levels of players.

Here's that other poll about what people do. This one might not have as many people as the other but it is a sampling and the only data obtainable to make a semi educated guess.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430993/how-do-you-spend-most-your-time-in-eso/p1

Zardayne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Here comes the ''consider the new or go play Darksouls'' crowd. Ironically they forget to consider people who value immersion

I do value my immersion. My high DPS character is the Dark Brotherhood Silencer. Of course it makes perfect sense that she would be able to slaughter a supposedly powerful enemy!

But sure, I'll take the bait. How are you suggesting that ZOS balance overland questing for new players with no CP (I was level 19 when I finished Summerset, questing only in that zone) and vet players who do 20k+ DPS at the same time?
(For extra challenge, explain how its financially worthwhile for ZOS to develop that rebalancing from what they already have.)

We've all give numerous ways to make overland (especially delves and other instances) fun and challenging for all. They will need to have a normal and a vet version of instances at least. I proved in another thread that it is financially worthwhile when a poll of over 400 players on this forum produced 42% of players saying overland is too easy with only like 10% more saying it wasn't. I think that 42 is a pretty big chunk and someone at ZOS better not be taking that lightly. If they think this game is going to continue to thrive when all these berry pickers and solo players move to Elder Scrolls 6 and the newer MMOs I have a feeling you are mistaken. ZOS has to find a middle ground to keep not only the newer players engaged but also their Vets. In the end it's only going to be us veteran players helping to keep the lights on.

I'm getting real tired of people acting like a casual players opinion of the game carries more weight than mine, a player that has been here since the PC open betas and have stuck through the ups and downs with them. I've been a paying player for over 4 years now and bought every day expansion knowing full well unless I made a new character with no cp, no gear, 1 random skill, no food, and tied one of his virtual arms behind his back, I was paying for a whole new landmass I wouldn't get to enjoy unless I wanted story time , a new dungeon and a trial. It sure doesn't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth and as someone who gives a damn about this game I keep hanging on, hoping that my vote, my money, and my voice counts too.

Sorry for the rant...

I'm sorry that I can't find your poll to see the exact numbers but 42% of 400ish players is only 168 or so players. Sure, most ESO players don't frequent the forums, but I'm not sure that directly translates into "There's actually a large number of players who would totally buy normal/vet versions of overland content to offset the cost of redesigning it." Especially considering the extra workload this would place on the devs, who now have to balance for normal and vet overland, depending on how this is implemented or whether there are extra rewards for the vet modes. I suppose ZOS could do it the lazy way and simply double or triple mob health/damage, but I can tell you I wouldn't pay for that sort of lazy solution when I could get effectively the same result by rebuilding to do less damage or wear less armor. If there's a vet mode that I'm going to pay for and feel like its actually worthwhile, I'd expect ZOS to turn the overland questing into something closer to public dungeon difficulty or normal dungeon difficulty, and that's going to require adding mobs and beefing up quest boss mechanics.

I might be wrong. It might be the case that there actually is enough players who want to vet mode to make it financially feasible for ZOS to create, support, and balance for a normal and vet mode for overland questing (that isn't totally lazy more health, more damage). Heck, maybe there's a big market for even the lazy version of a vet overland. I doubt it, but I might be wrong.

I'm sorry you feel like your voice doesn't matter to the devs. Personally, I got the message loud and clear when ZOS chose to make the level up rewards contingent on leveling up a new character instead of making them retroactive for experienced players. ZOS wants new blood and new money. They've already got ours.

Here you go Varanis

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5191164#Comment_5191164

I agree with you. It would definitely have to be done right. Just adding more health to existing mobs and increasing their damage would be the lazy route and it wouldnt sell me either. I do think the only way they could do it correctly and not split the playerbase in overland is only by adding an increased difficulty to delves and other instances. That way the world is still populated by everyone yet the delves offering the challenge new and old are looking for. I think you mentioned a good point and that difficulty is going to have to include beefing up not only the boss but minion mechanics. I noticed in Summerset a lot more of the mobs are using knockdowns and things to begin making you think and react instead of just pushing 1,2,3,12,5. Hell it sounds silly but I get excited when a mob knocks me off my ass and I lose a tenth of health when other mobs are beating on me. It kinda fire up the adrenaline for a sec lol.

Truth is I don't have all of the numbers they have to really see what's going on. I can't tell that 80% of the players are spending way too long on certain encounters etc to know where and what to buff or if everything's just right. All I can go on is how currently the game is affecting my enjoyment of it and as a vet MMo gamer, I'm constantly trying to figure out why it's happening and what solutions I can offer up to the devs to help solve it. I've been MMoing since 97 and I'm sure a lot of others on this game have too. If we can all put our heads together and offer solid solutions instead of having the same forum people just saying NO, NO , NO we might come up with something the devs notice.

I really like this game. I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have if I didn't. I'm probably just getting a bit more irritated with ZOS too due to my Magden being ignored for over a year. It's still the best MMO on the market currently IMO and I definitely love seeing new blood pouring into Tamriel. Keeping that population growing is key. I also feel they need to make sure their vets are happy because without a strong core I don't think they'll last as long. They need to start expanding on some of their existing parts of the game (PVP, Vet overland delves, etc) because a new dungeon and a trial every few months is only going to be fun for so long. There was a poll a few days ago asking what the majority of the players do when they play and dungeons and trials were really low on that list. If I remember right questing lead by a large margin. Most of these casuals are going to get better and they're going to want a bit harder stuff to do since dungeons don't seem to be everyone's bag. It sounds like to me ZOS better start improving their questing for all skill levels of players.

Here's that other poll about what people do.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430993/how-do-you-spend-most-your-time-in-eso/p1

Thanks for the link! I even voted in that one, so I think I was searching for the wrong terms.

End-of-storyline bosses should always have instanced fights. They needn't be forced-solo instances; they should just be instanced. Then ZoS would find any scaling choices to be straightforward to implement. The absence of that diminished my pleasure, for example, right at the end of what is otherwise my favorite storyline in the game (or second-favorite after the entirely instanced main quest), namely Rivenspire. I felt the same way about the Angoff fight back in the day. I did do the end of the Bangorkai story line truly solo (I forget whether that was instancing or luck) long ago, and that was great. Etc.