Feanor wrote: »

100k HP end boss that drops in half a minute

you mean 3 seconds?

I think many of quest bosses MUST have HP range at 300k-1000k HP (start bosses lower, later bosses higher), weak single target damage and medium AoE easy avoidable damage. This solve several parts:
- boss don't instadie;
- new players will feel that they actually take down some big tower beast, not some 32k hp regular mob;
- geared players will spend more than 3 seconds to kill that boss )

And final boss of the whole chapter must, just must have at least 1 million health bar.

Coudn't agree more. I see that for new players who are not yet used to the game mechanics these end bosses might be challenging but for most others they are way too easy. While I sometimes enjoy burning everything down when questing with my fully geared sorcerer I still often wish there was a bigger challenge ahead at the end of a quest, especially after a great storyline like Morrowind / CWC / Summerset. When all these bad guys are so easy to beat why does everyone still need a hero like the vestige to solve their problems?

Recently I made a new character (Dunmer magden) and started with the Morrowind main quest. I didn't even distribute my CP points because I never played a warden before and wanted to get a feel for it first. And even with a lvl 13 character with no gear and weapon swapping, no CP points and a class I didn't know the final boss died within a minute.
...I want a veteran option...

On my leveling character, the final boss fight to Summerset felt about the right level of challenge.

On my dungeon ready DD, the boss felt like tissue paper.

I don't think that final boss fights need to get harder for new players who are leveling just to,
give my dungeon ready DD a challenge in overland questing. Ive got dungeons for that.

Here comes the ''consider the new players or go play Darksouls'' crowd. Ironically they forget to consider people who value immersion

Definitely agree. An optional harder difficulty for those situations would be great (still keeping the easy option for those who want it of course). I have to nerf myself down to the ground and then hold back on what abilities I use just to give some kind of feeling of danger to it, but at that point, it doesn't feel like an rpg anymore and just feels hollow.

Like you say though, the storytelling is great. It's just the lack of difficulty that makes it feel less enjoyable. It's like you're watching a movie or tv show, or reading a story where the final fight with the antagonist ends in a couple seconds when the hero kills them without any struggle. That would be a pretty boring ending to it. This isn't a movie or a book, so it has to show those details through its gameplay - that fight scene and all, but the end result is still the same disappointing feeling that a movie with a several second final fight with no struggle would be to watch.

It's balanced around the newest of the new players without a deep understanding of the abilities and gameplay and it's great that the stories are accessible for them, as they should be. That just shouldn't be the only mode of difficulty for it for those who want the full storytelling experience.

agreed OP. Overland and questing is a crying shame in this game. I have stopped questing because it is no fun at all to 1 shot mobs and kill bosses in under 10 seconds. I really wish they would work on making overland and questing fun and challenging.

I don't understand this massive need to make everything hard, i really don't i'm there to witness the story in all its glory and get some nice loot, not get my ass handed to me 15 times before i finally complete it through sheer luck..

I honestly do not enjoy tedious content and i do not feel fulfilled when i finally beat it.. more like angry and frustrated.. And its more inclined to make me just uninstall..

Story makes me feel immersed not lying on the floor looking at meaningless damage recaps that killed me..

I'm here for a good time not a long time and back at release bosses like Norion and Doshia were what made me quit for 4 years.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Making a "Boss Arena" as per @Aliyavana's suggestion wouldn't do it for me, personally. My main gripe with this issue, similar to OP's, is with how instagibbing the boss removes me from the immersiveness of the moment, and brings an anticlimactic end to what was otherwise a solid build-up of tension throughout the story.

A boss arena would neither be immersive nor have any narrative build-up, so it wouldn't solve the issue for me. Not against the suggestion itself, though; it seems like it could be fun for players who like the idea.

That said, making the fight suitably difficult for endgame players would be a massacre for new or casual ones. And at the same time, I find it a little unreasonable of me to expect ZOS to expend resources to implement a scaling or norm/vet system for these fights, when I could simply unslot some gear or skills while questing to challenge myself more. I actually do this and it's legit!

But if they were to do so, I'd be totally behind a Veteran mode option for questing. Even more so if it awarded increased XP and purple-quality, zone-appropriate loot, to make the questing experience more rewarding on the whole.

All these CP cap raises, all these gear grind, all in vain as the only way to have what the story and marketing is promising?

I don't view any of that as a waste, though.

I grinded my levels and gear to make myself competitive at PvP and trials, and unslotting a few things during a quest doesn't make any of those achievements disappear.

Once I'm done enjoying some storytelling, I slap em back on and jump right back into Cyro/BGs as per normal.

Good luck on balancing a game where the average dd pulls somewhere between 500 and 70k dps \o/

TheYKcid wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Making a "Boss Arena" as per @Aliyavana's suggestion wouldn't do it for me, personally. My main gripe with this issue, similar to OP's, is with how instagibbing the boss removes me from the immersiveness of the moment, and brings an anticlimactic end to what was otherwise a solid build-up of tension throughout the story.

A boss arena would neither be immersive nor have any narrative build-up, so it wouldn't solve the issue for me. Not against the suggestion itself, though; it seems like it could be fun for players who like the idea.

That said, making the fight suitably difficult for endgame players would be a massacre for new or casual ones. And at the same time, I find it a little unreasonable of me to expect ZOS to expend resources to implement a scaling or norm/vet system for these fights, when I could simply unslot some gear or skills while questing to challenge myself more. I actually do this and it's legit!

But if they were to do so, I'd be totally behind a Veteran mode option for questing. Even more so if it awarded increased XP and purple-quality, zone-appropriate loot, to make the questing experience more rewarding on the whole.

All these CP cap raises, all these gear grind, all in vain as the only way to have what the story and marketing is promising?

I don't view any of that as a waste, though.

I grinded my levels and gear to make myself competitive at PvP and trials, and unslotting a few things during a quest doesn't make any of those achievements disappear.

Once I'm done enjoying some storytelling, I slap em back on and jump right back into Cyro/BGs as per normal.

Fair enough. I still think that a good game should cater to all their players since the devs create the floor and the cailing of the player's power. But you said you can get behind vet quest mode, so we can agree on that.

eso_nya wrote: »

Good luck on balancing a game where the average dd pulls somewhere between 500 and 70k dps \o/

Most of the power creep stems from CP. Also, I just wrote it before, it's the devs who implement the ceiling, so they should have taken those issues into account before they raised the power level to where we are now.

Yes should have stopped CP at 160.. Or lower tbh..

Its the low textures on Nocturnal's robe that really kills me. The whole time I was fighting the final boss, I was just like "Really, they couldn't spring for a higher resolution? Like, that's midde-schooler-trying-out-photoshop-for-the-first-time-ever levels of bad."

(And yes, I've taught middle schoolers using photoshop for the first time. Its great fun. But they have an excuse when they mess up the resolution - they're middle schoolers.)

Zardayne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Here comes the ''consider the new or go play Darksouls'' crowd. Ironically they forget to consider people who value immersion

I do value my immersion. My high DPS character is the Dark Brotherhood Silencer. Of course it makes perfect sense that she would be able to slaughter a supposedly powerful enemy!

But sure, I'll take the bait. How are you suggesting that ZOS balance overland questing for new players with no CP (I was level 19 when I finished Summerset, questing only in that zone) and vet players who do 20k+ DPS at the same time?
(For extra challenge, explain how its financially worthwhile for ZOS to develop that rebalancing from what they already have.)

We've all give numerous ways to make overland (especially delves and other instances) fun and challenging for all. They will need to have a normal and a vet version of instances at least. I proved in another thread that it is financially worthwhile when a poll of over 400 players on this forum produced 42% of players saying overland is too easy with only like 10% more saying it wasn't. I think that 42 is a pretty big chunk and someone at ZOS better not be taking that lightly. If they think this game is going to continue to thrive when all these berry pickers and solo players move to Elder Scrolls 6 and the newer MMOs I have a feeling you are mistaken. ZOS has to find a middle ground to keep not only the newer players engaged but also their Vets. In the end it's only going to be us veteran players helping to keep the lights on.

I'm getting real tired of people acting like a casual players opinion of the game carries more weight than mine, a player that has been here since the PC open betas and have stuck through the ups and downs with them. I've been a paying player for over 4 years now and bought every day expansion knowing full well unless I made a new character with no cp, no gear, 1 random skill, no food, and tied one of his virtual arms behind his back, I was paying for a whole new landmass I wouldn't get to enjoy unless I wanted story time , a new dungeon and a trial. It sure doesn't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth and as someone who gives a damn about this game I keep hanging on, hoping that my vote, my money, and my voice counts too.

Sorry for the rant...

I'm sorry that I can't find your poll to see the exact numbers but 42% of 400ish players is only 168 or so players. Sure, most ESO players don't frequent the forums, but I'm not sure that directly translates into "There's actually a large number of players who would totally buy normal/vet versions of overland content to offset the cost of redesigning it." Especially considering the extra workload this would place on the devs, who now have to balance for normal and vet overland, depending on how this is implemented or whether there are extra rewards for the vet modes. I suppose ZOS could do it the lazy way and simply double or triple mob health/damage, but I can tell you I wouldn't pay for that sort of lazy solution when I could get effectively the same result by rebuilding to do less damage or wear less armor. If there's a vet mode that I'm going to pay for and feel like its actually worthwhile, I'd expect ZOS to turn the overland questing into something closer to public dungeon difficulty or normal dungeon difficulty, and that's going to require adding mobs and beefing up quest boss mechanics.

I might be wrong. It might be the case that there actually is enough players who want to vet mode to make it financially feasible for ZOS to create, support, and balance for a normal and vet mode for overland questing (that isn't totally lazy more health, more damage). Heck, maybe there's a big market for even the lazy version of a vet overland. I doubt it, but I might be wrong.

I'm sorry you feel like your voice doesn't matter to the devs. Personally, I got the message loud and clear when ZOS chose to make the level up rewards contingent on leveling up a new character instead of making them retroactive for experienced players. ZOS wants new blood and new money. They've already got ours.

Simplest Fix:

Implement a hardcore character mode at the character select screen which enabled veterans to create a toon that would suffer a permanent debuff that reduces "all" stats by a certain percentage on that specific character.

They could still play with their friends while enjoying the increased difficulty of "all" content.

This makes much more sense than creating new servers or implementing some type of toggle for players which lends itself to more breakage.

Hell ZoS could even implement new titles for those who complete certain content using said toons.

Just a simple lifetime debuff that is applied to the character on creation.