rune476 wrote: »

Traditionally in rpg's the enemies scale softly with the players level so that they always pose even a little challenge. The same happens in ESO, except in stops at lvl 50 when we have 780 additional cp levels.

Eh, traditionally in RPGs, you eventually outlevel/outgear/outpower early challenges, and you can go back and curbstomp them with your Super OP Mega Gods. And even many of the 'scaling' systems I've played, there's limits to the scaling.

(I recall many comments in the past, from people annoyed by scaling systems because it meant they couldn't outlevel & overpower challenges that they couldn't beat when they first reached them. SP RPGs, that is, not MMOs.)

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

rune476 wrote: »

Traditionally in rpg's the enemies scale softly with the players level so that they always pose even a little challenge. The same happens in ESO, except in stops at lvl 50 when we have 780 additional cp levels.

Eh, traditionally in RPGs, you eventually outlevel/outgear/outpower early challenges, and you can go back and curbstomp them with your Super OP Mega Gods. And even many of the 'scaling' systems I've played, there's limits to the scaling.

(I recall many comments in the past, from people annoyed by scaling systems because it meant they couldn't outlevel & overpower challenges that they couldn't beat when they first reached them. SP RPGs, that is, not MMOs.)

That's still a complaint with MMOs, including ESO since One Tamriel. It doesn't come up here often, but it does happen. Some people find the solo quests difficult but can't now go back to them when they've gained a level or two as the mobs have leveled too.

One of the main balancing issues in any game is trying to cater for both those who are starting out and those who are veterans, but even with veterans there are major differences in the quality of the build and depth of tactical knowledge especially between those who play competitively and those who do not. Having a single veteran mode wouldn't overcome those differences, or remove the complaints about the difficulty level of the game which is hugely subjective.

Franieck wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

rune476 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

But then you split the player base. Experienced players put in vet toggle and never mix with new players. New players think the world is dead.

Why would they need to split the maps? They can just scale down the players stats for those to activate the Veteran Mode and leave rest as it is.

You can do that yourself. Remove your CP and wear trash gear.

Yeah, I tried that... even then overland is pathetically easy haha

For you it is, because you are already experienced and know the basic mechanics. Not so long ago I was fairly new; I couldn't even kill an elite with 100k hp. If I pulled a 3-member mob pack, I died (except if they were the 13k hp packs, like skeevers or wolves). So overland is only easy if you already know what you have to do.

I think this topic was already discussed in the forum 5 times - in August 2018. And many more times before that...

rune476 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can do that yourself. Remove your CP and wear trash gear.

Why then add raids to the game when we can do public dungeons naked? Why add dungeons when delves without CP are tougher.

You see where im going with this? Disregarding a players choice in armor/build, asking them to strip down in order to have a challenging experience sounds like a bad idea to me.


"Sorry mannimarco, i cant fight you just yet im still wearing pants"

You asked a toggleable debuff for yourself; rune476 answered that it's already in the game.

rune476 wrote: »

Overland content is still being made, still being offered with story missions and make up the bulk of the game. Are you telling me that i no longer should enjoy that part of the game because i have obtained a powerful weapon? Traditionally in rpg's the enemies scale softly with the players level so that they always pose even a little challenge. The same happens in ESO, except in stops at lvl 50 when we have 780 additional cp levels.

Scaling enemies are only in Bethesda's RPGs (newer Fallout and Elder Scrolls games) according to my experience. Every other RPG I played has different levels for the zones and level-appropriate enemies, so if I outlevelled the zone, I outlevelled everybody in it and will one-shot all enemies.

Franieck wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

Except that is why I introduced the option of normal (as it is now) and vet.

But then you split the player base. Experienced players put in vet toggle and never mix with new players. New players think the world is dead.

that can be a good thing as it solves the issue of CP 300+ players stealing kills in overland and delves from low level players.

That isn't a thing in this game. When you see a high level player hitting the mobs a new player is hitting in delves, the high level isn't being a *** stealing kills. He is making it so both players hit the boss at the same time, so the new player doesn't have to wait around for 5 minutes while the boss respawns. Personally, I run through to the boss without killing the other mobs unless I see someone else then I slow down for the reason mentioned above.

All players who tag a mob will get credit for the kill. The only difference is the experience that is received. 2 players tag and the exp is the same. Once it's more than 2 players is when the exp goes down.

I selected Other because I was going to post that maybe the DLCs could be tougher content, like the dungeons are.

But then I recalled how many new players Morrowind brought in, who tried to play it with random gear, potion and food pickups and maybe didn't even know how to use them.

Overland content needs to be kiddie pool.

It sure would be nice to have more challenging solo end-game content other than VMA and soloing the old soloable vet dungeons.

Overland content is meant to be easy. Players have to begin somewhere and quite frankly I prefer to be able to enjoy the stories without worrying about the combat all the time. Also you need to be able to one-shot most things or you'll never get anywhere - it seems every 2 steps I take I have to deal with wolves, skeevers, bandits or cultists.

You have plenty of challenging content in dungeons - do those.

I'd rather a more elegant solution with a difficulty slider or clever debuffs/rewards or something that let people continue to play together but I'd settle for just a veteran version of the world.

The reason to not have a veteran version is that it would split up the population which always seems like a bad idea... but after playing in it for long enough I think having some people just run around killing everything before a lower level can blink isn't fun for anyone involved.

A veteran world option would be better than what we have now until someone can figure out a better way to do it.

Linked characters ... You play through once and once you've completed all the main quests and a percentage of the side quests perzone you can link your next character you create ... Doing so makes the overland harder for your new character however the achievements are linked so you can get all achievements share skill points etc etc which is why the overland is now harder

I'll join in on beating this horse as well. Totally agree overland is easy for vets, completely disagree anything should be done about it. Overland questing makes up the majority of the content you say? Well shucks so do casuals. I really wonder how often players who want an increase look around and observe their fellow players.

I'm a harvester by nature so as I'm plucking flowers and snagging fish I mostly see noobs/lowbies running around struggling with enemies that if I sneeze at would die. Only other vets I see are farmers, doing dailies or if it's a dlc zone working on some new questline. I just assumed vets who are looking for challenging content are doing challenging content as I constantly see players trying to group in chat for vet content.

I've often suggested losing ones gear in the past but that doesn't remove ones ability to use all the knowledge one has learned about the game, making it still much easier than for a newer player. But it is what it is, and it makes zero business sense for zos to allocate any time/funds towards something like this for zero return. No matter how they debuff your character or buff up enemies hp vets are gonna roll over content in short order.

It's like once you've beaten vma you look back wondering how you ever found it challenging. Content then becomes tedious and you're right back here asking for more buffs/rewards. And hp buffs are as good as you'll get, no way devs rework mechanics or add new ones to old content for vets who will burn through it in short order, for zero profits. Not gonna happen.

It's much easier and profitable to appease newer players who haven't been burned out, don't own the vast majority of the content and are just much easier to please because it's all still very new to them. Vets on the other hand own so much already, have vast amounts of knowledge about the game and are just generally harder to keep happy for a variety of reasons.

You don't have to constantly reassign skills/cp's, there are 8 free slots, use them. I have a ton of toons, some built for no-cp bgs, no-cp cyro, pve vet content, pve quest content, etc. I also don't have a "main", each toon is a main for me as it's the main toon I use for whatever content they were built for.

One word...Craglorn. They tried that with that zone and failed miserably. Everyone was complaining that it was too hard to solo.

I still see newer players complaining that overland quests are "too hard". Hell, when Clockwork came out, people were complaining that the last fight in the main quest track was too hard.

rune476 wrote: »

Questing difficulty should be left as it is. After reaching a certain CP threshhold i believe an optional "veteran" mode should be available. I hate going through new story content on my main, knowing nothing will challenge me. The Veteran Mode doesnt even need more mechanics, just higher HP and mob damage. Currently at cp600 i feel giving everything roughly three times the hp/damage would do it justice.


Currently i envision it as a light version of Diablo 3's difficulty system, so that on the Veteran Mode mobs would drop twice the gold and higher chances for set drops.

I feel its important to emphasize the optional part. As a way to add challenge to ones own gameplay.

pretty much everything I would have said, other then hating going through the story on easy mode. I love being able to relax into the story. challenge actualy takes away from it for me, becasue now instead of being focused on the narrative, I'm focused on trying to not die and for some people that IS the fan part and the narrative, but not for me and not for a lot of people.

baseline difficulty should stay as is. optional vet difficulty should be available, but only OPTIONAL.

as it is, lately, with each new dungeon DLC I have to remind myself why do I even enjoy this game anymore. it takes going back to the stories and playing through on alts to remember.. oh.. that's why. flat increase to difficulty of overworld = canceled subscription from me. but OPTIONAL higher difficulty? is a pretty good compromise IMO.