Overland and questing difficulty overhaul

Septimus_Magna

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

DBZVelena wrote: »

YOU might be one shotting, but YOU know the ins and out of the game to max your dps.
New/average players, not so much. and we do need a option for a learning curve where new/average players can learn the game before we get murdered in pvp or where ever.

YOU and new players can experience the game on normal and nothing changes.

You make an excellent point with the learning curve. Where is the learning curve now? You either have very easy quest and overland content, easy normal dungeons or hard vet content. Many players dont even try basic vet dungeons because they feel nothing prepared them for it and they feel overwhelmed.

A veteran overland mode would be the prefect way to prepare players for vet dungeons. It doesnt have to be extremely difficult but quest bosses with 120k health is an absolute joke.

Azuramoonstar

Other (explain your ideas and thoughts)

Franieck wrote: »

One huge problem a I find with the game is how boring and ridiculously easy overland and questing mobs/bosses are. What is the point of going through story lines (which are for the most part awesome) which context involve you saving villages, cities from eminent danger if there is no danger at all. One shotting mobs is pretty pathetic imo. What if we had different options to deal with that? Here are some potential solutions, and I'd be interested to know who would be interested in those or if anyone has better ideas:

No mmo has a "hard" overland. Once you explore everything and figure things out it becomes easy. Difficulty is subjective, and most mmo the challenge isn't with the overland, but the end game dungeon and raid bosses.

Unlike most MMO eso has a steep learning curve and if everything can 1 shot a player people would quit. Again difficulty is subjective, someones "too easy" is another persons "too hard".

lets take example of dark souls and bloodborne. Those games have been cited to have a good challenge, and jokingly causing massive destruction of controllers and rage.

I tried them out and after seeing similarities in the combat to Legend of Zelda ocarnia of time, with boss battles similar to Legend of zelda (the first one) i found the game to be pretty easy and am 1/1 on most bosses.

MMo overland is not meant to be a one and done, these are locals you may need to visit often for events, quests, farming mobs, and farming materials.

Back in 2002 final fantasy 11 hit ps2 in japan, the game was slower paced more in line with older rpg. the overland was beefy with mobs that can kill a player if not careful. You needed spells or items to stealth through aggroing mobs to explore. Mobs had 4 aggro types, sight, sound, magic, blood. the magic ad blood aggro was undead mobs would aggro if the player hit a low hp. And some mobs would aggro of a spell was cast. Then you had end game field bosses which can spam in some locals.

ff11 as it was called, only peeked at 500K accounts world wide. And the games current playerbase is largely on 1 server. and most everything was rendered solo-able with npc that can be recruited. ff11 relayed on player interaction, such as fast travel, gear, and leveling up, but now you can solo anything.

MMO now a days due to WoW's popularity are less about the community, and more about solo gameplay, as 90% of MMO is solo, while the 10% that makes up the end game is group only. the MMO i came from ff14 had a solo only story line outside of the occasional forced group dungeons. Which can be cheesed due to the "under size" option where a max level player can escort a player through it 1 shotting all the mobs. And some quests are forced solo making you drop the party and do it alone.

I think ESO does a good job since the updates, in that you have a large world to explore, and that you can play solo if you want, or play with friends if you want. Nothing is really forced on you.

Though i do miss the "must play with others" gameplay of ff11, i understand that is not popular. And MMO need large playerbases to survive do the cost it takes to run an MMO. (servers costs, dev team ect)

Azuramoonstar

Other (explain your ideas and thoughts)

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

"Remove CP" doesn't work, because the larger issue is having a good skill build & a firm understanding of the game mechanics (stats, buffs, rotations, animation canceling, etc).

A player who doesn't understand all that stuff will struggle even with a good build & gear.
A player who does understand all that, can beat up quest mobs with a rusty teaspoon.
And turning off your knowledge of gameplay isn't quite as easy (or reasonable).

Just described games and gaming in a nutshell. And how subjective difficulty is.

And there is nothing wrong with it, people who are good at a game, will be good. People who are not good at a game will not be good.

Games are a skill based hobby. Much like model building or puzzle solving.

ZeroXFF

Other (explain your ideas and thoughts)

DocFrost72 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

damage of overland mobs by a factor of 10-20 so that tanks can tell you how easy overland content is while mobs 1-shot you. (sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious)

Not everyone plays with your setup, and questing should be accessible to everyone playing the game.

sure, and again, that is why i added the option of introducing a normal (stay as current is) and vet overland (additionally for those who want to). You could choose whatever you wish without changing anything. You could keep playing the current setup if you wanted to. So I don't really get your point?

If the rewards stay the same, whatever. But already in this thread people are asking for better rewards for doing the vet version. And if that happens, we have a vMA situation where people are punished for making builds that people cry about a lack of (tanks).

I can see your point, but imo the discussion is still too much on its alpha stages to even warrant a talk about this. The first point is to recognize the problem. After that, extra rewards or no rewards can be talked about. Just regarding potential rewards, there is a LOT of discussion that is needed to truly see what is viable or not. What does better rewards mean ( cosmetics? items sets? mats? tempers?) how much should it be rewarded (it obviously has to be fair)?. All of that are part of the discussion (albeit at a more advanced stage of it). However, the first step imo is to acknowledge how bad overland feels for the players (for some not at all, for others like me it;s game breaking), and then, and only then, if a majority voices concerns about it, we can further develop the conversation into that stage.

Well, if you make not just "vet" versions, but versions that fit your role in the trinity and all of those awarded the same things and were as quick to complete as each other on the respective roles (significantly more NPC HP but low damage for DDs, significantly more damage but low HP for tanks and something in the middle in both regards for healers), it's ok. But if there are going to be ANY extra rewards AT ALL for something that is much more difficult (or even impossible) to complete with one sensible setup than with another, it is already unfair, even if the reward is as meaningless as an NPC telling you that you're awesome.

I think you have it backwards. Under the current system a tank is wholly uneeded for questing, agree? If suddenly there is a mode people can't do so easily alone, support roles become worth their weight in gold to most players who want them phat rewards (gold jewels, special titles etc).

Doesn't hurt tanks to have more damage to soak, imho

Please show me a tank that has completed vMA. You aren't playing the same game if you think that that's how it would turn out.

Vogtard

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

Link the vet mode to Cadwell's silver/gold as an optional choice - lore-friendly and no problem with newbies.
Don't change the mobs, just the scaling of the player character, so we can still all play together.

MaleAmazon

You make an excellent point with the learning curve. Where is the learning curve now? You either have very easy quest and overland content, easy normal dungeons or hard vet content. Many players dont even try basic vet dungeons because they feel nothing prepared them for it and they feel overwhelmed.

A veteran overland mode would be the prefect way to prepare players for vet dungeons. It doesnt have to be extremely difficult but quest bosses with 120k health is an absolute joke.

This is very true. Veteran dungeons are a major step up in difficulty. You have mechanics you need to understand, that you might not even have seen on normal since many groups burn bosses. If you move to veteran some people will get annoyed that you don´t know the dungeon and cannot carry your weight (I´ve been guilty of this in past, trying to change). Giving people the option to solo tough content could work as a training experience.

This is to say nothing about vMA, which is a brick wall in terms of difficulty for solo overland players.

No mmo has a "hard" overland.

So? Even if that is true (I don´t know since I only play ESO online), why should it remain that way? TES single-player games don´t have static overworlds.


I´d just like to add this; ESO actually has really good combat controls and it is really fun to play tough fights. Most people just don´t get to see this, I think, since in its current state the game excludes long fights where you react:

1. Overland is a pushover without many mechanics.

2. Normal dungeons are a pushover.

3. Veteran dungeons and trials are mostly about massacring mobs and then following very specific, static tactics on bosses. It´s like a synchronised dance - and it can be enjoyable but you don´t really improvise or respond.

4. vMA is also pretty mechanics-intensive and muscle-memory as you get used to it.

5. PvP isn´t too much about reacting since people build for burst specifically so the opponent doesn´t have the time to react. Also, PvP is filled with specific fully-gilded player builds and is spectacularly newbie-unfriendly. It is in that way not a good representation of what the combat system is capable of.


Soloing world bosses is fun for me precisely because I do get to react a to the boss, it is a long fight and not as predictable as the others. I would very much like to see that level of difficulty when I play story content.

Azuramoonstar

Other (explain your ideas and thoughts)

MaleAmazon wrote: »

No mmo has a "hard" overland.

So? Even if that is true (I don´t know since I only play ESO online), why should it remain that way? TES single-player games don´t have static overworlds.


I´d just like to add this; ESO actually has really good combat controls and it is really fun to play tough fights. Most people just don´t get to see this, I think, since in its current state the game excludes long fights where you react:

1. Overland is a pushover without many mechanics.

2. Normal dungeons are a pushover.

3. Veteran dungeons and trials are mostly about massacring mobs and then following very specific, static tactics on bosses. It´s like a synchronised dance - and it can be enjoyable but you don´t really improvise or respond.

4. vMA is also pretty mechanics-intensive and muscle-memory as you get used to it.


Soloing world bosses is fun for me precisely because I do get to react a to the boss, it is a long fight and not as predictable as the others. I would very much like to see that level of difficulty when I play story content.

A single player game and an MMO are from the ground up are different in design and coding. And I do know as i have been playing MMO since 2004 i played ff11 ff14 WoW Dcuo Aion ESO and tons more.

the overworld isn't suppose to level up with you, in fact that was a new concept in gaming. You need to traverse the overworld often, not a one/done like most games. What you just described is the gaming in a nutshell. All combat is a dance.
And again difficulty is subjective your "too easy" is another persons "too hard".

ff11 had a pretty harsh overworld yet the MMO only hit 500K subs/accounts. the cost to run MMO banks on having 1mil+ players. anything under that causes the mmo to be shut down.

No game stays "hard" as you get good at it.

Also the cost of making 2 versions of the same world is not worth the return. Most ppl complaining about this are new to MMO and trying to put single player difficulty sliders in a MMo. which isn't feasible.

if you want a "hard" mmo play ff11 and play the vanilla experience.

tunepunk

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Soloing world bosses is fun for me precisely because I do get to react a to the boss, it is a long fight and not as predictable as the others. I would very much like to see that level of difficulty when I play story content.

There's not much else one can do for a bit of challenge. I also do this sometimes.

Sometimes i even try soloing the vet dungeons, even the ones that require group, and I can't finish by myself. I'm not really there to complete it fully. I try to get as far as i can and grab some loot/chests on the way, just for the fun of it, and the intensity of the fights.

I wish overland had a bit of that intensity as well when doing quest, and especially public dungeons.

MaleAmazon

A single player game and an MMO are from the ground up are different in design and coding. And I do know as i have been playing MMO since 2004 i played ff11 ff14 WoW Dcuo Aion ESO and tons more.

the overworld isn't suppose to level up with you, in fact that was a new concept in gaming. You need to traverse the overworld often, not a one/done like most games. What you just described is the gaming in a nutshell. All combat is a dance.
And again difficulty is subjective your "too easy" is another persons "too hard".

I´m sorry, but that line of reasoning reminds me of the people who complain about RPGs when combat numbers are taken out, when 2d6 dice rolls are changed to other, maybe hidden formulas, when classes were taken out from TES... And the people who didn´t think you should be able to select several buildings at once in Starcraft 2 (yes this was very real!) because that wasn´t the way RTS games were 'supposed to work'.

And I guess some people hate 1 Tamriel as well.

Things change. Forget the past and look at how ESO works in 2018. They release new story content which is clearly designed to provide strong opposition (dramatic music, dialogue etc), while the game design means that just by playing the game and the story in order, you will be playing on 'very easy' once you get to where the story currently is.

Also the cost of making 2 versions of the same world is not worth the return. Most ppl complaining about this are new to MMO and trying to put single player difficulty sliders in a MMo. which isn't feasible.

1) You don´t have to make 2 versions of the same world, 2) difficulty sliders are already in the game.

RexyCat

DBZVelena wrote: »

YOU might be one shotting, but YOU know the ins and out of the game to max your dps.
New/average players, not so much. and we do need a option for a learning curve where new/average players can learn the game before we get murdered in pvp or where ever.

You forgot to add that overland is also where crafters and farmer go to get their stuff...too much fighting hardcore mobs (I don't talk about WB or that kind things)...would create a lot of problems to get mats. Not everybody in this game is here to show off their superior skills [directed to OP]...

mague

Tandor wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the leveling part of the game as it is, not that I've ever one-shotted anything, but if some players find it too easy when replaying with alts perhaps they shouldn't allocate 1,000 CPs quite so soon. Personally, I'd prefer CPs to be character-specific but I'd settle for them not being able to be allocated until a character reaches 50.

It is not the CP or the one-shotting. The game buffs a level 1 to over 20k in HP, MAG and STAM. Only overland bosses are harder, because the level one has no mitigation and only a few spells and morphs. Anything else is very easy.

I would be happy if it was possible to just switch off the One Tamriel buff

pieratsos

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

Dymence wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Veteran overland questing isn't a solution. Endgame players have done the questing long ago and will not do it again. New characters get grinded up. That means the only reason you would go back to overland stuff is to farm specific gear. Farming is already boring as hell I sure wouldn't want to make it even more tedious by making mobs tankier.

You do realise that new DLCs/Chapters have their own storylines right?

True, but even if it's made harder I don't expect it to be a challenge. I breezed through vMA when it was first released, and you see how many people are still claiming that's too hard many years later...

Point is, for story stuff, accessibility for everyone is fine.

Yes i was farming vMA too before it was cool. Thats not the point. The point is when people complain about overland being too easy they have a point. They want to enjoy the story and the quests of new DLCs but they cant cause there is literally zero difficulty and zero rewards in doing them.

I didnt say make overland similar to vMA difficulty where 90% of the people wont even be able to kill a quest boss. But if there is a way to cater to both types of players without hurting the game in some sort of way then why the hell not?

Derbforgaill

Other (explain your ideas and thoughts)

I would simply like to have the option to turn off the champion points while questing. Easy as.

FrancisCrawford

Some thoughts:

• I don't think there's much demand for harder trash fights. If the boss fights weren't jokes, I think grumbling would be way down. Indeed, at most times for most people, having trash fights be trivial is actively a good thing.
• The idea of a toggle that turns CP on and off is a good one, because it's so easy for ZoS to implement.
• What's stopping people from having a weak character just for new overland content? All character slots being full? That's the main thing I can think of.
• Guild Wars did overland hard mode very well. But that, even in retrospect, was an unusual game. EVERYTHING was instanced. Also, everything was grouped; if you didn't group with PCs there were NPCs available for you to use.

jainiadral

leave it as it is, I like one shotting everything

More like three or four-shotting trash mobs, which is a huge improvement over 900-shotting as I was leveling. Honestly, I like that the game's getting easier. I'm a lone wolf, a solo quester, and I'm here for story-time not difficult combat. I'm probably never going to touch a normal dungeon, let alone vet dungeons or trials. Not to mention, I'm not a huge fan of the combat system here. Any fight that's over fast gives me more time to enjoy the stories and the beautiful scenery.

That said, if there was a way to implement difficulty sliders and allow people their challenge, I'd probably support it so long as I'm not forced into it.

DocFrost72

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

ZeroXFF wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

damage of overland mobs by a factor of 10-20 so that tanks can tell you how easy overland content is while mobs 1-shot you. (sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious)

Not everyone plays with your setup, and questing should be accessible to everyone playing the game.

sure, and again, that is why i added the option of introducing a normal (stay as current is) and vet overland (additionally for those who want to). You could choose whatever you wish without changing anything. You could keep playing the current setup if you wanted to. So I don't really get your point?

If the rewards stay the same, whatever. But already in this thread people are asking for better rewards for doing the vet version. And if that happens, we have a vMA situation where people are punished for making builds that people cry about a lack of (tanks).

I can see your point, but imo the discussion is still too much on its alpha stages to even warrant a talk about this. The first point is to recognize the problem. After that, extra rewards or no rewards can be talked about. Just regarding potential rewards, there is a LOT of discussion that is needed to truly see what is viable or not. What does better rewards mean ( cosmetics? items sets? mats? tempers?) how much should it be rewarded (it obviously has to be fair)?. All of that are part of the discussion (albeit at a more advanced stage of it). However, the first step imo is to acknowledge how bad overland feels for the players (for some not at all, for others like me it;s game breaking), and then, and only then, if a majority voices concerns about it, we can further develop the conversation into that stage.

Well, if you make not just "vet" versions, but versions that fit your role in the trinity and all of those awarded the same things and were as quick to complete as each other on the respective roles (significantly more NPC HP but low damage for DDs, significantly more damage but low HP for tanks and something in the middle in both regards for healers), it's ok. But if there are going to be ANY extra rewards AT ALL for something that is much more difficult (or even impossible) to complete with one sensible setup than with another, it is already unfair, even if the reward is as meaningless as an NPC telling you that you're awesome.

I think you have it backwards. Under the current system a tank is wholly uneeded for questing, agree? If suddenly there is a mode people can't do so easily alone, support roles become worth their weight in gold to most players who want them phat rewards (gold jewels, special titles etc).

Doesn't hurt tanks to have more damage to soak, imho

Please show me a tank that has completed vMA. You aren't playing the same game if you think that that's how it would turn out.

You are completely missing the point. I didn't argue tanks should do maelstrom (my heavy armor dk finished the first time I ever took it in because the mobs couldn't overtake vigor though which was freaking hilarious).

My argument is this: if there were a version of overland questing content that was as hard as vMA, tanks and healers would be highly valued. The dps players that wanted the rewards would literally trip over themselves to recruit you to group for the quests.

Turn your question around. How much would having a pocket tank to taunt things for you in maelstrom be desirable?

BONUS VIDEO: https://youtu.be/64ShFMAFJLI

I can confirm that making yourself tanky as can be helps flawless and inexperienced runs of maelstrom. Literally just changing out hunding's for fortified brass and using an armor buff will make you feel a lot less like tissue paper. Mistakes become issues, but not unsolvable ones.

Fun fact: This is the setup is use to deal with world bosses solo, dungeons solo, and eventually (if it ever comes which I doubt) vet overland.

Facefister

Your average player has issues on finishing vSpindleclutch1.

Narvuntien

straight up buff overland mobs and questing bosses

I want a toggle for cp while questing. So its not so mind numbingly dull.

So i just bought summeset over the weekend you are saying just because i put thought into my gear, (its not even bis julianos + silks of the sun is obtainable by any player) that i shouldn't be able to enjoy the wonderful quests available?

Yeah i know was a rotation is but i am not even using one in overland i am pressing whip, crit and the mob explodes or i walk past lay down wall of elements and they die without laying a hand on me the supposedly super scary bosses the npcs are worried about i walk up and press R and they die.

Its just pulling me out of the role playing experience... i am too damn strong.

And before you suggest unassigning my cp and running around without sets that prevents me from questing while i wait for a trial group to form or a queue to pop

dirk5027

leave it as it is, I like one shotting everything

This game is an audio/visual masterpiece, combat not so much, they raise the difficulty they'd lose millions of players
Example.. you go into a cave, trying to find your objective, fighting enemy after enemy over and over, you took a wrong turn and have to backtrack, you then have to fight the same identical enemy in the same identical spot all over again
Combat is way to repetetive, to make it more difficult, I can't even imagine the backlash
At champion 350, it still takes forever to kill a spider, then while i am killing one spider the other eats his brother and is back to full health LOL...........love to know how many keyboards and controllers have been thrown against a wall over this combat

DocFrost72

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

dirk5027 wrote: »

At champion 350, it still takes forever to kill a spider, then while i am killing one spider the other eats his brother and is back to full health LOL...........love to know how many keyboards and controllers have been thrown against a wall over this combat

You can bash the feeding animation to interrupt it and stop the healing. Also lets you stun the enemy with a heavy attack as they are likely to be off balance.

abzdeman

This thread again...

Tandor

leave it as it is, I like one shotting everything

Would those complaining that they can one-shot all the overland mobs and therefore want a veteran version of the overland content be happy for grouping to be disabled in that version? I ask because if it wasn't disabled then I can imagine the same problem continuing, veteran players would team up to rush through the content in a breeze just to get the xp and the better rewards (which we're perhaps beginning to see emerge as one of the key factors in the demand for more challenging content).

Shantu

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

A hard mode option when logging in would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

Zardayne

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

Sevn wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Adding an option to toggle veteran difficulty doesn't change anything for people who like things as it is. It doesn't affect them at all.

Adding a toggle and liking how it is shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

I truly don't understand the resistance to this idea.

I'll help you and OP understand why there would be resistance to even this being an option, time/resources. In order for this to happen something else has to be put aside. Time and resources aren't infinite and lots of us would rather them spend that limited time/resources on content the majority of the fanbase will enjoy and or other more pertinent issues that warrant those funds and that time.

Overworld is a cakewalk for me and I'd still rather them work on new dungeons than rework old overworld content. It's really that simple. Though I would definitely enjoy farming in these vet zones as they would most certainly be emptier than the normal zones.

Well according to this poll over 40% (With over 400 vote sampling) would like overland to be harder. Doing something to please over 40% of your player base doesn't sound like a waste of time and resources to me, especially when some of those resources come from those same folks.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5191164#Comment_5191164

Zardayne

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

Tandor wrote: »

Would those complaining that they can one-shot all the overland mobs and therefore want a veteran version of the overland content be happy for grouping to be disabled in that version? I ask because if it wasn't disabled then I can imagine the same problem continuing, veteran players would team up to rush through the content in a breeze just to get the xp and the better rewards (which we're perhaps beginning to see emerge as one of the key factors in the demand for more challenging content).

Well I can't speak for others but I definitely don't one shot mobs in overland but it doesn't take a whole lot more either. I'd say no way to grouping being disabled. Can you imagine a MMO not encouraging teaming up (which is basically overland now)? I'd love a reason to actually quest with my friends in overland when we make alts, etc. Even when ESO launched on PC and we had no CP, the game for just a veteran gamer was still very easy other than the Dosha encounter and a few others. I know because when myself and two other coworkers/MMO vets began playing we hardly ever grouped all the way to 50. We tried grouping and we'd all just get bored or we ran into the old phasing problems back then.

Dymence

pieratsos wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Veteran overland questing isn't a solution. Endgame players have done the questing long ago and will not do it again. New characters get grinded up. That means the only reason you would go back to overland stuff is to farm specific gear. Farming is already boring as hell I sure wouldn't want to make it even more tedious by making mobs tankier.

You do realise that new DLCs/Chapters have their own storylines right?

True, but even if it's made harder I don't expect it to be a challenge. I breezed through vMA when it was first released, and you see how many people are still claiming that's too hard many years later...

Point is, for story stuff, accessibility for everyone is fine.

Yes i was farming vMA too before it was cool. Thats not the point. The point is when people complain about overland being too easy they have a point. They want to enjoy the story and the quests of new DLCs but they cant cause there is literally zero difficulty and zero rewards in doing them.

I didnt say make overland similar to vMA difficulty where 90% of the people wont even be able to kill a quest boss. But if there is a way to cater to both types of players without hurting the game in some sort of way then why the hell not?

But you play story for the story, not for the challenge. Atleast I do. If I want to enjoy challenge, I'll play another game, or do raids.

I'm not firmly against the concept of having split normal and veteran overland, I just think that realistically it will never happen. Too much investment for the devs for basically nothing, and on top of that "One Tamriel" will stop being "One Tamriel". It just doesn't fall in line with ZOS' vision for the game.

Rewards is an entirely different beast. ESO content in general is extremely unrewarding. I like the achievements that give skins, but that won't fall to everyones taste either. Loot in this game is absolutely terrible, and on top of that harder challenge =/= better loot.

Mureel

Franieck wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

Except that is why I introduced the option of normal (as it is now) and vet.

But then you split the player base. Experienced players put in vet toggle and never mix with new players. New players think the world is dead.

that can be a good thing as it solves the issue of CP 300+ players stealing kills in overland and delves from low level players.

Everyone gets credit for kills if they hit it. No such thing as stealing kills.

Sevn

Zardayne wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Adding an option to toggle veteran difficulty doesn't change anything for people who like things as it is. It doesn't affect them at all.

Adding a toggle and liking how it is shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

I truly don't understand the resistance to this idea.

I'll help you and OP understand why there would be resistance to even this being an option, time/resources. In order for this to happen something else has to be put aside. Time and resources aren't infinite and lots of us would rather them spend that limited time/resources on content the majority of the fanbase will enjoy and or other more pertinent issues that warrant those funds and that time.

Overworld is a cakewalk for me and I'd still rather them work on new dungeons than rework old overworld content. It's really that simple. Though I would definitely enjoy farming in these vet zones as they would most certainly be emptier than the normal zones.

Well according to this poll over 40% (With over 400 vote sampling) would like overland to be harder. Doing something to please over 40% of your player base doesn't sound like a waste of time and resources to me, especially when some of those resources come from those same folks.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5191164#Comment_5191164

Poll numbers from a forum full of mostly vets isn't exactly accurate. Despite that, even the ones who want an increase in difficulty aren't in agreement with how hard it should be.

I'd want it vma level since that is easy for me and I could farm zone after zone with few others to compete with seeing as the number of players who beat vma are in the single digits, plus better rewards that I could accrue easily.

Make it like that and I'm all for it. How's that sound?

Pink_Violinz

straight up buff overland mobs and questing bosses

Had the opportunity to play on a brand new account the other week. Even on another platform, with unfamiliar controls, on a class I've never dps'd on, I breezed through content.

Even when I started the game was a cakewalk. Literally all I did was heavy attack, and there were maybe a handful of instances through all three zones that I actually struggled. No cp, no prior knowledge of the game. I'm not asking for Dark Souls, but something slightly more challenging than Animal Crossing would be appreciated.

Kolache

implement normal and veteran overland/questing system

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

No mmo has a "hard" overland. Once you explore everything and figure things out it becomes easy. Difficulty is subjective, and most mmo the challenge isn't with the overland, but the end game dungeon and raid bosses.

How many MMOs have the entire overland map, like every overland area, designed to scale fights for both low level and max level characters? GW2 lets you scale down but doesn't scale you up, for example. It was a neat idea for the sake of keeping players together, but is it possible that it just doesn't work that great in when it comes to making new zones more interactive for veteran players?