shaielzafine wrote: »

YUP. They need a new combat team.I used to main magplar, rolled another toon and realized how much easier it is to be a stamsorc in this meta. Snipe, proc sets, poisons, bleeds, aoes, vigor and roll dodge is much more enjoyable than the defiles + bleeds + not being able to keep up with healing the burst damage people do. Especially in BG's where stam classes rule because of it being no CP, and having to run to objectives.

I don't blame you.

I've considered rolling another character as well. I still might... even though starting over isn't something I want to do.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I love playing a PVP healer, but I'll tell you what I've learned about healing as a PVP damage dealer: heal proactively. Heal before you get hit. If you wait to heal until you're at low health, its probably too late. My Stam Warden DD has Vigor going before I get into the fight, so hopefully I never need your 7k crit heal to save me.

Frankly It's too late no matter when you start healing because healing is just too weak on this game's PvP to be used a form of defense. The damage on this game easily overwhelms it.

You can use it as a support option as a damage dealer to get your life back during openings... sure. But that's all it's really good for. Anyone who tries to create an actual healer on this game's PvP is in for an unpleasant experience.

Hi. I main a healer. Mind you, I play that healer in large and small groups, so I'm not trying to 1vX on a healer build.

Healing is far from an unpleasant experience for me. Sorry that you don't like it much, but I've found it to be a rewarding and very entertaining way for me to contribute in large and small group PVP.

Well it's a good thing you're not trying to 1v1 on a healing build because it's awful at it. Any offensive character can simply swat away my heals like flies until I'm dead.

On other games I have played it's the opposite however - and healers are usually quite effective in PvP and can keep themselves alive against only a single player certainly - and usually hold their own against several.

I'm glad you enjoy playing a PvP healer. More power to you. But I continue to hold the opinion healing is ridiculous weak in this game and needs to be buffed considerably.

If 1v1 is what you want to do, I wouldn't suggest trying to survive on pure healing. There are plenty of people here pointing out that you'll do better with multiple forms of passive and active damage mitigation. My advice about healing proactively presumes that I was also roll dodging, using line of sight, had sufficient resistances, blocking when needed, and was reacting appropriately to my enemies.

Why do you want to rely on healing alone in a 1v1 fight?

And those would be good suggestions - because healing on this game is pathetic and is not a form of effective defense like I said. It can't even break even against a single player's damage - so you can just imagine the effect it would have against multiple players in larger scale PvP.

And this isn't about what I "rely" on really. It's a criticism of the game's PvP design as it relates to healing magic and how fundamentally weak it is when compared to the damage numbers on this game.

Other games I have played aren't like that. Healing is a lot more powerful on those.

I have to head out, so if I don't answer you back that is why.

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Oh hey look it’s Jeremy again .

I see you’re still up to the same old shenanigans

What a rascal.

Shouldn't you be on an EP toon farming a resource with your DC buddies?

Team Purple 4 Lyfe

Healing is fine, you can easily (Yes, easily) outheal a full-gank snipe spammer, even a good one, with breath spam. That said, healing isn't supposed to be your sole defense, block, dodge, LoS and CCs are all useful for mitigating predicted bursts of damage and anyone who's not doing these things isn't worth the mana you're spending to heal them. As a side note, your healing gear isn't very optimized for pvp, but I still think the problem is a playstyle problem rather than purely a gearing issue.

I also think you might actually misunderstand the term "healbot", it doesn't refer to characters that are literally controlled by a bot program. It just a derogatory term for players for players who heal by only mashing Breath of Life instead of mixing heals with a buff/support rotation.

A damage-dealer Stamden's Mushrooms can heal for more than 7k in non-CP...

Heals should never out do damage in the long run

TheYKcid wrote: »

A damage-dealer Stamden's Mushrooms can heal for more than 7k in non-CP...

My record is 10.5k

I've been PvP'ing for ten years in MMO's. Balance is always an issue in these types games. It's just incredibly difficult to do. If you want truly balanced PvP then you need a game that does only PvP. The only way I can think of where ESO devs could really make PvP balanced would be to have PvP only classes and gear. When you mix PvE and PvP balance is just a constant juggling act.

Dude, that's a pve setup. Try shacklebreaker/riposte/monster set or two 1 piece monster sets of your choice (I like infernal guardian and domihaus), or innate axiom/riposte/whatever, or axiom/amber plasm/whatever. Hell you could put on Julianos or Kags. Or both, now that jewelcrafting is out.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

wanting mass amounts of damage and mass healing on a templar and / or on a warden is what is unbalanced.
healers should Heal, and the more damage they do the less they should be able to heal.

Says the guy who gets mad when anything threatens his sload sniping from stealth.

Jeremy wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

A 7k heal crit is low af man. You better take a look at your build before QQing so much about the dev team (which is rather meh, but not for the reasons you list imo)

It's actually not that low, man.

And that's the problem. That's actually a good heal for this game. And you're right, it's "low af". That's where the problem is.

Heals need to be strengthened in this game. By a lot.

7k is very low, thats non crit heal range.

Also in this game healing is very overtuned especially in cp. It's quite easy for a healer to survive 4 people of them while spamming heals.

Give us your full build OP, enchants, gear, purple weps, traits etc...

Seems like a build issue judging by what you've said you wear. So instead of crying for unnecessary buffs fix your build.

Well, even 9k would be low.

One hit of Lethal Arrow for me, after that you'll be constantly debuffed by 30% healing received.

While I'll be more likely even more buffed for dealing damage (procs etc) - and this is just raw buffs, not even counting that healing debuff, which is effectively increases my dps on you by that 30%.

Yes, OP is right, PVP here is a mess, even if imagine, that their servers are working perfectly, that was never seen by me and I'm playing since beta

Jeremy wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

I've already gone over this several times.

That's what a Templar's Breath of Life Crits for when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Apprentice Mundus stones.

There is no "learn to play" involved here. It is merely pushing the key that uses the heal. My pet ferret could manage to do that. But we agree - that's a very weak heal and that is my point. So we agree about that. ^^

That setup is ****ing great on a NB healer... on a templar it's just crap.

Look for sets with higher magicka stats/magicka recovery, and that provide some extra effects. SPC, Gossamer, Healing Mage...

Mother sorrow increases just the chance of crit heal, but if you are wearing a full light set or 5-1-1, then you don't need it. Your crit's won't be any better, just "more constant"

by the way, do you have a gold staff or just a purple one?

Jeremy wrote: »

I do not know who is behind the PvP combat on this game - but it's clear to me they are either incompetent or allow their own personal preferences to interfere in their work (I can also guarantee you they play a DPS class). I will explain why:

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

So I ask: what is the point of healing if at best all it can do is break even...against one player's damage? The answer is simple. There isn't. All it would accomplish is wasting resources until you run dry, then you die. You are much better off going offensive and just attacking, which does better numbers. I have never seen a game where healers are reduced to mere support in PvP and are worthless as a means of self defense. It's usually the opposite - and healing is a very powerful form of defense. But not on this game. It's weak as crap and functions merely as a support tool to spam on other players so can they can run around and have more fun at your expense. So no wonder people create "healing bots". Why would anyone want to actually play as one?

So I frankly don't understand why so many people seem to enjoy playing as a healer class on this game. All I can guess is they do it for the points. Otherwise it's nothing more than a mediocre support tool and mere fodder against any damage-dealing class.

A few things to say here:

1. Healing should never outdo damage over the long term. The reason defensive abilities cost more than offensive abilities is because stalemates are not fun. Two players (or groups of players) ideally won't crash into each other indefinitely- one group will wipe. They design the game hoping this will happen because it is more engaging then having everyone build like a turtle.

2. With that being said, your heals are much lower than normal, but your cost-to-cast is remaining the same, meaning that you have to spend much more magicka (and time) to get the same result. Both TBS and Mother's Sorrow are sub par for healing and PvP. Mothers Sorrow will hardly increase your tooltip at all, just your crit chance. In non-CP this is particularly bad, since you don't have any CP to boost the effectiveness of your crits.

3. You should not be comparing a healing tooltip to a damage tooltip. Even as a "healer", your primary defense should not simply be to heal. Your physical/spell resistance, critical resistance, line of sight, and general mobility should all be factors that contribute to your defense. Defense is about mechanics as much as it is stats and abilities. With identical tooltips between your heal and their damage, you should come out significantly ahead even before utilizing the mechanics available to you, simply because you have damage resistance via your armor.

4. As a Magplar, and particularly a solo/ 1v1 Magplar, your primary healing comes from Jabs, not from BoL, since you need to pressure your opponents into defense, and Jabs heals you for a percentage of damage done. This also means that it is more effective to focus damage rather than... whatever you're focusing on.

5. In PvP you need crit resistance. This makes TBS comparatively worse, since you need all divines to make it an effective option, meaning that you have to run impreg to make up the difference in crit resist. Since you are not running impreg, I can assume either your mundus is suffering because you are not running enough divines, or your resistance is suffering because you are running divines, and therefor have no crit resistance.

6. This is a L2P issue, not because you're pushing 1 button "incorrectly", but because you think you can survive a damage spec by pushing one button at all. What you need to learn is how to counter your opponents play-style in order to emerge victorious. Nobody needs to learn how to spam BoL better- they need to learn how to build better, and how to adapt to the situation at hand. I think focusing on your build and your play-style as areas of improvement will help you significantly.

7. To prove what I am saying, let me show you a solo templar who has plenty of heals, and kills it in solo open world, despite Magplar being one of the most difficult solo/ 1vX classes in open world. He is a great example of building properly, and responding to his enemies weaknesses, overpowering them into submission. Not to mention he is just fun to watch.