PvP on this game needs work.

Jeremy

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

So I ask: what is the point of healing if at best all it can do is break even...against one player's damage? The answer is simple. There isn't. All it would accomplish is wasting resources until you run dry, then you die. You are much better off going offensive and just attacking, which does better numbers. I have never seen a game where healers are reduced to mere support in PvP and are worthless as a means of self defense. It's usually the opposite - and healing is a very powerful form of defense. But not on this game. It's weak as crap and functions merely as a support tool to spam on other players so can they can run around and have more fun at your expense. So no wonder people create "healing bots". Why would anyone want to actually play as one?

So I frankly don't understand why so many people seem to enjoy playing as a healer class on this game. All I can guess is they do it for the points. Otherwise it's nothing more than a mediocre support tool and mere fodder against any damage-dealing class.

[Removed bashing title and comments]

Nerftheforums

A 7k heal crit is low af man. You better take a look at your build before QQing so much about the dev team (which is rather meh, but not for the reasons you list imo)

Jeremy

Nerftheforums wrote: »

A 7k heal crit is low af man. You better take a look at your build before QQing so much about the dev team (which is rather meh, but not for the reasons you list imo)

It's actually not that low, man.

And that's the problem. That's actually a good heal for this game. And you're right, it's "low af". That's where the problem is.

Heals need to be strengthened in this game. By a lot.

Micah_Bayer

7k Is pretty low

Jeremy

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

7k Is pretty low

No it isn't.

Jeremy

That's what a critical Breath of Life does in Mother of Sorrow/Twice Born Star with ritual and apprentice Mundus.

If that set up can't give you heals powerful enough to simply break even against one player's damage, then there is a serious problem.

Keep in mind, I am talking None CP PvP here.

CyrusArya

Sounds like a l2p issue

Jeremy

CyrusArya wrote: »

Sounds like a l2p issue

This has nothing to do with how to play.

It's about the fact heals on this game are weak as hell, and take a ridiculous amount of investment simply to break even against the damage of a single player.

Though I can understand why damage dealing classes wouldn't want to see that change, and are going to be extremely hostile toward any thread pointing that out.

brandonv516

I've hit a 9k crit heal on a magicka Nightblade in no CP battlegrounds (healthy offering). In CP I've seen it crit for 12k.

So nothing against you man but 7k is low for a burst heal.

Thogard

Oh hey look it’s Jeremy again .

I see you’re still up to the same old shenanigans

What a rascal.

Jeremy

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've hit a 9k crit heal on a magicka Nightblade in no CP battlegrounds (healthy offering). In CP I've seen it crit for 12k.

So nothing against you man but 7k is low for a burst heal.

Like I said, that's what a Templar's breath of life criticals for when when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Mundus Stones. 7k.

Which is pathetic.

IN order to get it up to 9k I would likely have to dump all my health - which would just open up new problems.

And even 9k is weak, and would just be able to barely break even at best against a single player's damage output (and that's if it was spammed). So whether you want to say 7k or 9k, the argument is the same.

Heals on this game are just pathetic and only good for support. At the very best, you can spam them to barely stay alive until you run out of magicka.

VaranisArano

I love playing a PVP healer, but I'll tell you what I've learned about healing as a PVP damage dealer: heal proactively. Heal before you get hit. If you wait to heal until you're at low health, its probably too late. My Stam Warden DD has Vigor going before I get into the fight, so hopefully I never need your 7k crit heal to save me.

Valen_Byte

I run a Magplar in pvp every day. I have all points into mag and around 2.8k spell damage. My BoL crits for 13k on the regular. I know I could get it even higher if I built him to be a healer.

Freddycruz89

How are your champion points looking? High crits demand masterful coordination with other stats.

Valen_Byte

Thogard wrote: »

Oh hey look it’s Jeremy again .

I see you’re still up to the same old shenanigans

What a rascal.

Shouldn't you be on an EP toon farming a resource with your DC buddies?

Kadoin

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

Jeremy

VaranisArano wrote: »

I love playing a PVP healer, but I'll tell you what I've learned about healing as a PVP damage dealer: heal proactively. Heal before you get hit. If you wait to heal until you're at low health, its probably too late. My Stam Warden DD has Vigor going before I get into the fight, so hopefully I never need your 7k crit heal to save me.

Frankly It's too late no matter when you start healing because healing is just too weak on this game's PvP to be used a form of defense. The damage on this game easily overwhelms it.

You can use it as a support option as a damage dealer to get your life back during openings... sure (and that sounds like what you're talking about). But that's all it's really good for. Anyone who tries to create an actual healer on this game's PvP is in for an unpleasant experience.

Biro123

That's cus the game is designed so that surviving isn't just damage tooltips Vs heal tooltips.
It's damage tooltips - reduced by mitigation, with periods of not getting hit at all due to avoidence/Los...

Despite yhat, my matriarch heals used to crit for 11.7k, which is a lot more than the average damage of my frags.

VaranisArano

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I love playing a PVP healer, but I'll tell you what I've learned about healing as a PVP damage dealer: heal proactively. Heal before you get hit. If you wait to heal until you're at low health, its probably too late. My Stam Warden DD has Vigor going before I get into the fight, so hopefully I never need your 7k crit heal to save me.

Frankly It's too late no matter when you start healing because healing is just too weak on this game's PvP to be used a form of defense. The damage on this game easily overwhelms it.

You can use it as a support option as a damage dealer to get your life back during openings... sure. But that's all it's really good for. Anyone who tries to create an actual healer on this game's PvP is in for an unpleasant experience.

Hi. I main a healer. Mind you, I play that healer in large and small groups, so I'm not trying to 1vX on a healer build.

Healing is far from an unpleasant experience for me. Sorry that you don't like it much, but I've found it to be a rewarding and very entertaining way for me to contribute in large and small group PVP.

Jeremy

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I love playing a PVP healer, but I'll tell you what I've learned about healing as a PVP damage dealer: heal proactively. Heal before you get hit. If you wait to heal until you're at low health, its probably too late. My Stam Warden DD has Vigor going before I get into the fight, so hopefully I never need your 7k crit heal to save me.

Frankly It's too late no matter when you start healing because healing is just too weak on this game's PvP to be used a form of defense. The damage on this game easily overwhelms it.

You can use it as a support option as a damage dealer to get your life back during openings... sure. But that's all it's really good for. Anyone who tries to create an actual healer on this game's PvP is in for an unpleasant experience.

Hi. I main a healer. Mind you, I play that healer in large and small groups, so I'm not trying to 1vX on a healer build.

Healing is far from an unpleasant experience for me. Sorry that you don't like it much, but I've found it to be a rewarding and very entertaining way for me to contribute in large and small group PVP.

Well it's a good thing you're not trying to 1v1 on a healing build because it's awful at it. Any offensive character can simply swat away my heals like flies until I'm dead.

On other games I have played it's the opposite however - and healers are usually quite effective in PvP and can keep themselves alive against only a single player certainly - and usually hold their own against several.

I'm glad you enjoy playing a PvP healer. More power to you. But I continue to hold the opinion healing is ridiculous weak in this game and needs to be buffed considerably.

brandonv516

Jeremy wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've hit a 9k crit heal on a magicka Nightblade in no CP battlegrounds (healthy offering). In CP I've seen it crit for 12k.

So nothing against you man but 7k is low for a burst heal.

Like I said, that's what a Templar's breath of life criticals for when when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Mundus Stones. 7k.

Which is pathetic.

IN order to get it up to 9k I would likely have to dump all my health - which would just open up new problems.

And even 9k is weak, and would just be able to barely break even at best against a single player's damage output (and that's if it was spammed). So whether you want to say 7k or 9k, the argument is the same.

Heals on this game are just pathetic and only good for support. At the very best, you can spam them to barely stay alive until you run out of magicka.

Not sure I understand how you have to sacrifice so much. I'm running heavy armor and my HP is sitting at a comfortable 25k. You need more than burst heals though, you need those HoTs and you need supportive CC to give you and your team breathers. And those healing ultimates should be helping you too.

I just don't see the struggle man. In fact as a Templar, you should be miles ahead of me playing a healing role.

Jeremy

Biro123 wrote: »

That's cus the game is designed so that surviving isn't just damage tooltips Vs heal tooltips.
It's damage tooltips - reduced by mitigation, with periods of not getting hit at all due to avoidence/Los...

Despite yhat, my matriarch heals used to crit for 11.7k, which is a lot more than the average damage of my frags.

That sounds similar to what I am saying.

The game is simply designed in such a way that playing an actual healing class is not really an option.... or at least not an effective one.

Jeremy

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

I've already gone over this several times.

That's what a Templar's Breath of Life Crits for when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Apprentice Mundus stones.

There is no "learn to play" involved here. It is merely pushing the key that uses the heal. My pet ferret could manage to do that. But we agree - that's a very weak heal and that is my point. So we agree about that. ^^

Hoked_on_ponix

Jeremy wrote: »

I do not know who is behind the PvP combat on this game - but it's clear to me they are either incompetent or allow their own personal preferences to interfere in their work (I can also guarantee you they play a DPS class). I will explain why:

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

So I ask: what is the point of healing if at best all it can do is break even...against one player's damage? The answer is simple. There isn't. All it would accomplish is wasting resources until you run dry, then you die. You are much better off going offensive and just attacking, which does better numbers. I have never seen a game where healers are reduced to mere support in PvP and are worthless as a means of self defense. It's usually the opposite - and healing is a very powerful form of defense. But not on this game. It's weak as crap and functions merely as a support tool to spam on other players so can they can run around and have more fun at your expense. So no wonder people create "healing bots". Why would anyone want to actually play as one?

So I frankly don't understand why so many people seem to enjoy playing as a healer class on this game. All I can guess is they do it for the points. Otherwise it's nothing more than a mediocre support tool and mere fodder against any damage-dealing class.

I remember the reactive templars of old. Not many people found that heal style very engaging or skill based. Healing finally feels like it is at a decent spot. Also your heals aren't going to hit very hard in mothers sorrow/ Twice born, what even is that build?

Jeremy

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I do not know who is behind the PvP combat on this game - but it's clear to me they are either incompetent or allow their own personal preferences to interfere in their work (I can also guarantee you they play a DPS class). I will explain why:

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

So I ask: what is the point of healing if at best all it can do is break even...against one player's damage? The answer is simple. There isn't. All it would accomplish is wasting resources until you run dry, then you die. You are much better off going offensive and just attacking, which does better numbers. I have never seen a game where healers are reduced to mere support in PvP and are worthless as a means of self defense. It's usually the opposite - and healing is a very powerful form of defense. But not on this game. It's weak as crap and functions merely as a support tool to spam on other players so can they can run around and have more fun at your expense. So no wonder people create "healing bots". Why would anyone want to actually play as one?

So I frankly don't understand why so many people seem to enjoy playing as a healer class on this game. All I can guess is they do it for the points. Otherwise it's nothing more than a mediocre support tool and mere fodder against any damage-dealing class.

I remember the reactive templars of old. Not many people found that heal style very engaging or skill based. Healing finally feels like it is at a decent spot. Also your heals aren't going to hit very hard in mothers sorrow/ Twice born, what even is that build?

And what sets do you think are going to make heals do so much more?

I'll go wear them for you - and then report back.

shaielzafine

YUP. They need a new combat team.I used to main magplar, rolled another toon and realized how much easier it is to be a stamsorc in this meta. Snipe, proc sets, poisons, bleeds, aoes, vigor and roll dodge is much more enjoyable than the defiles + bleeds + not being able to keep up with healing the burst damage people do. Especially in BG's where stam classes rule because of it being no CP, and having to run to objectives.

Gilvoth

wanting mass amounts of damage and mass healing on a templar and / or on a warden is what is unbalanced.
healers should Heal, and the more damage they do the less they should be able to heal.

Valen_Byte

Jeremy wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

I've already gone over this several times.

That's what a Templar's Breath of Life Crits for when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Apprentice Mundus stones.

There is no "learn to play" involved here. It is merely pushing the key that uses the heal. My pet ferret could manage to do that. But we agree - that's a very weak heal and that is my point. So we agree about that. ^^

Its is a l2p issue. Why are you wearing those sets trying to be a healer? Why wont you listen to people who get twice the heal out of the same skill? You dont want to be better it seems, you just want to ***. Done.

Jeremy

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I do not know who is behind the PvP combat on this game - but it's clear to me they are either incompetent or allow their own personal preferences to interfere in their work (I can also guarantee you they play a DPS class). I will explain why:

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

So I ask: what is the point of healing if at best all it can do is break even...against one player's damage? The answer is simple. There isn't. All it would accomplish is wasting resources until you run dry, then you die. You are much better off going offensive and just attacking, which does better numbers. I have never seen a game where healers are reduced to mere support in PvP and are worthless as a means of self defense. It's usually the opposite - and healing is a very powerful form of defense. But not on this game. It's weak as crap and functions merely as a support tool to spam on other players so can they can run around and have more fun at your expense. So no wonder people create "healing bots". Why would anyone want to actually play as one?

So I frankly don't understand why so many people seem to enjoy playing as a healer class on this game. All I can guess is they do it for the points. Otherwise it's nothing more than a mediocre support tool and mere fodder against any damage-dealing class.

I remember the reactive templars of old. Not many people found that heal style very engaging or skill based. Healing finally feels like it is at a decent spot. Also your heals aren't going to hit very hard in mothers sorrow/ Twice born, what even is that build?

Healing has no spot on this game.

As I stated, it's simply a support tool for damage classes to use during openings to get their life back.

Jeremy

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

Kadoin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My best heal crits for around 7k (and that's without defile). One lethal arrow can easily do that much damage (and there are plenty of abilities that can do more).

If that's your best heal CRIT, you got problems with your build if you plan on being a healer or relying on heals. If your "burst heal" is that low you are better slotting ward in possible every case. If you're a stam char with that much healing, you are better getting more stam to dodge or block. Believe it or not, dodging and blocking at the right time can make you live far longer than any heal can, especially when there is an army in your face.

If you absolutely get melted and want to survive nukes or gank attempts, then provided you don't get one-shot, the nuclear option would be to wear Whitestrakes (not juggernaut since there is a delay on heals when the game is lagging and the cooldown is trash). You can make Whitestrakes in any weight since it is a crafted set, but you will sacrifice damage for it in exchange for more hp + a shield that might save you from someone's dawnbreaker. The best part about it is that you only have to live 15 seconds before it can save you again. If you cannot survive in a 1v1 for 15 sec as a "healer" or heal-focused build in PvP, then again, you either don't block or roll and/or your build might be bad.

I've already gone over this several times.

That's what a Templar's Breath of Life Crits for when wearing Mother's Sorrow/Twice Born Star with Ritual and Apprentice Mundus stones.

There is no "learn to play" involved here. It is merely pushing the key that uses the heal. My pet ferret could manage to do that. But we agree - that's a very weak heal and that is my point. So we agree about that. ^^

Its is a l2p issue. Why are you wearing those sets trying to be a healer? Why wont you listen to people who get twice the heal out of the same skill? You dont want to be better it seems, you just want to ***. Done.

I keep hearing this...

What sets do you think I should wear that are going to make my healing do so much more?

Please - let's hear it. I'll go put them on for you then report back on the supposed insane difference it has made to my heals.

Jeremy

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

wanting mass amounts of damage and mass healing on a templar and / or on a warden is what is unbalanced.
healers should Heal, and the more damage they do the less they should be able to heal.

Maybe they should separate spell damage from spell healing if that is the concern.

There are ways around that without having to completely invalidate healing as a fundamental play style.

This game needs more build variety, not less.

IN any case: I can promise you the Templar on this game doesn't have "mass healing". They can't even effectively heal through a single player's damage - let alone a mass of players.