Dungeon Rant (from a casual)

Linaleah · August 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

GamerAeryn wrote: »

Also, no one mentioned trials. Of course I've been in trial groups where we had pugs.

none of us have low levels, so that's out, but yes I enjoy that feature a lot when we do have them. wish there was another gate. I know I'm not the only one to mention this. a little button would make life so much nicer.

The problem with this is that people do the "random normal" for the XP reward. The reason the XP reward is there is to encourage people to queue for dungeons to backfill groups that want to do a specific dungeon (say the pledge, for example). These dungeons include DLC dungeons.

If you could get the same XP reward by selecting an option that will limit yourself to only the "easy" dungeons, who in their right mind would queue up to include DLC dungeons if all they want is their 400k XP as quickly as possible?

don't you think its very telling? that people in their right minds would NOT chose to queue up for DLC dungeons? which is... kinda the point OP is making? either they need to make normal modes of DLC dungeons more forgiving (and no, they are not THAT easy, not if you are only casually occasionally doing dungeons and do not run minmaxed builds/rotations), or they need to give people an option to opt out.

if ZoS actualy wanted us to play the content, they wouldn't consistently make it less and less fun with each new DLC for a large chunk of their population. or at least that would common sense would imply.

Linaleah · August 2018

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

except... they didn't lower the ceiling, they boosted it up so high, its near unreachable.

jaws343 · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

except... they didn't lower the ceiling, they boosted it up so high, its near unreachable.

We are still talking about normal DLC dungeons. Which remain easier than the Vet 2 non-dlc dungeons.

Krayl · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

and no, they are not THAT easy, not if you are only casually occasionally doing dungeons and do not run minmaxed builds/rotations

There are delves and group dungeons in zones for 'casual' players.

There are veteran and hard mode dungeons for 'hard core' players.

group dungeons assume you have an interested in at least somewhat coordinated group content - meaning you're actually trying to perform well with a group.

if you're not interested in being effective and actually trying, don't queue up with random people who will be - group with your friends and go run delves and public dungeons.

newtinmpls · August 2018

weg0 wrote: »

You’re right, there are many people afraid to attempt these dungeons, that is why I mostly support the current system. The current system encourages growth and exploration.

weg0 wrote: »

And @newtinmpls, you ain’t ever gonna get good if you try to avoid anything that challenges you. If you fall off, dust yourself off and try again.

Yup, absolutely! Growth is good, and learning can be fun.

But when the mechanics are obscure enough that four reasonably intelligent people (the group I usually game with) can't figure out why we are wiping on a particular boss after looking up several "how to's" and while we do have a couple of semi-BIS'ers that help out the two more casual folks - we still struggle with the DPS gates that are supposed to be achievable. That's when I stop working at that particular dungeon.

When it gets to the point where it's a so much of a grind that it just isn't fun, then I stop wanting to do that content.

On that note, I never have, and likely never will bother with Maelstrom - that much of a "learn to grind" is so far from fun for me .... well those who love that flavored challenge - y'all get your grind on!.

Krayl · August 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

But when the mechanics are obscure enough that four reasonably intelligent people (the group I usually game with) can't figure out why we are wiping on a particular boss after looking up several "how to's" and while we do have a couple of semi-BIS'ers that help out the two more casual folks - we still struggle with the DPS gates that are supposed to be achievable. That's when I stop working at that particular dungeon.

Which bosses in particular are difficult to figure out and/or dps gates on normal?

newtinmpls · August 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

you need to be doing the dlcs anyway or your truly not enjoying the game). trials and stuff make these dungeons easier so why not do them. with the odds of dungeons(even on normal and no you dont have to do them on vet) dlc dungeons are fairly easy to understand after a couple tries.

I think that by now we both have figured out that "if I played like you, it wouldn't be fun for me."

I don't care for trials, don't do PvP (much - sometimes if a good leader will tell me what to do) but sometimes will have fun with it. Don't like "mechanics" that I can't really figure out, or that I just can't "make work"

Loath DPS gates with a purple passion - I would like credit for hiding/sneaking, or slow work.

Starlock · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

except... they didn't lower the ceiling, they boosted it up so high, its near unreachable.

It seems that way sometimes, doesn’t it? There may be some truth in this, and I think there is another side of the story: player expectations. In some cases, it isn’t that content cannot be done with a non-competitive character, it’s that the super competitive min-maxers can’t stand playing with someone who beats to a different drum. There’s no solution to that as far as I can tell. Well, lowering the ceiling would help by doing things like making 40k dps mechanically impossible.

Krayl · August 2018

I agree that dps gates are an annoying 'mechanic' to me. I would like strategy to be a more useful tool than brute force.

That being said I'm just having a hard time thinking of any normal dungeons where that's an issue.

weg0 · August 2018

Krayl wrote: »

Which bosses in particular are difficult to figure out and/or dps gates on normal?

^ this. Post a question about a specific trouble spot and the whole community (most... there are some stinkers who just say “google it”) will offer tons of good advice.

I have trouble believing that four people that read several guides and use “semi-BiS” gear can’t tackle a normal dungeon.

Tasear · August 2018

What makes them feel rough? Is it mechs, DPS race, engagment? What would make them fun?

newtinmpls · August 2018

weg0 wrote: »

I have trouble believing that four people that read several guides and use “semi-BiS” gear can’t tackle a normal dungeon.

Why sure, shaming is totally useful.

And by Semi-BIS, if it requires trial gear, we don't have it. If it requires gold jewellery - half of us don't have it.

For me, if it requires a lot of global awareness (i.e. keeping track of signals from the Big Boss and timing, and other bits springing up) I stink at it. Skype helps a LOT, but I'm still slow at noting certain things.

Um to be honest, this isn't "all" things, but the last one that we just could not get past was ... Cradle of Shadows, the Dranos dude where the statue is hanging up side down.

As an example,

https://www.justpushstart.com/2016/08/elder-scrolls-online-cradle-shadows-dungeon-guide/

Lists an explanation that runs like this:

"This fight might not be the hardest, but it is probably the second most mechanic driven fight in the dungeon. All you need to do is damage the boss and avoid the AoE that the statue in the middle shoots. After a while Dranos will teleport around dropping AoEs, which is your cue he is going to grab someone. The person he picks will be the last person attacked and when he picks you everyone needs to run over and shield bash the adds. This will instantly kill them and the person affected can get up. Once you get up make sure to block or you’ll probably die to the DoT.

After specific points he will summons adds and become immune to damage. Kill the adds, step in the AoE thing and that will make him damageable again. Rinse and repeat until you win."

1-Is there something that the tank can/should be doing?

2-Damage the boss with anything in particular? Do we need to worry about particular buffs, immunities?

3-Since "shield bash" is sort of a tank move, what do non-tanks do instead? In order to get there in time, looks like you have to put some sort of rush/speed thing on your bar?

4-Ahhh...didn't see the "block the DoT"; first - how do I know when it's happening, second - I suck at blocking, hence why I'm rarely a tank. What do I look for - somehow Dranos dies and then does a DoT? If he is dead, how is he doing damage?

I'm just lost.

And banging my head against a wall is not what I do for fun.

I do that at work way too often. (or think about it, at any rate).

AlnilamE · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

GamerAeryn wrote: »

Also, no one mentioned trials. Of course I've been in trial groups where we had pugs.

none of us have low levels, so that's out, but yes I enjoy that feature a lot when we do have them. wish there was another gate. I know I'm not the only one to mention this. a little button would make life so much nicer.

The problem with this is that people do the "random normal" for the XP reward. The reason the XP reward is there is to encourage people to queue for dungeons to backfill groups that want to do a specific dungeon (say the pledge, for example). These dungeons include DLC dungeons.

If you could get the same XP reward by selecting an option that will limit yourself to only the "easy" dungeons, who in their right mind would queue up to include DLC dungeons if all they want is their 400k XP as quickly as possible?

don't you think its very telling? that people in their right minds would NOT chose to queue up for DLC dungeons? which is... kinda the point OP is making? either they need to make normal modes of DLC dungeons more forgiving (and no, they are not THAT easy, not if you are only casually occasionally doing dungeons and do not run minmaxed builds/rotations), or they need to give people an option to opt out.

if ZoS actualy wanted us to play the content, they wouldn't consistently make it less and less fun with each new DLC for a large chunk of their population. or at least that would common sense would imply.

No, you are missing my point. I'm saying that if you give people two options, where the perceived options are 1. "get 400k XP in under 15 minutes" and 2. "Get 400k XP in maybe under 30 minutes but possibly up to an hour" most people will choose the easy option, regardless of what they think of the dungeons.

And I say "perceived options" because I think a lot of people overestimate the difficulty of the DLC dungeons.

Sure, Mazzatun is harder than Spindleclutch I, but it's easier than City of Ash II. And WGT is faster to run through than Blackheart Haven or Tempest Island.

I personally only ran Falkreath Hold 3 or 4 times, but after getting some hints on the second (?) boss, it really wasn't hard to complete, and in all my runs there was at least one person who hadn't been there.

I've run Scalecaller and Fang Lair with guildies who are pretty easy going and we got through it with no issues.

Dungeons take practice. Repeating them improves your reaction time to the mechanics, makes people position themselves better for fights, makes you recognize the priority targets and makes things smoother.

Dungeons like Banished Cells II and Crypt of Hearts II have pretty complex mechanics as well, but they are "non-DLC". But we've done them a million times by now, so they are 'easy". Meanwhile we haven't done the DLC dungeons a million times yet, so they are "hard". But it's a matter of perception and getting used to the fight.

TheInfernalRage · August 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

...I think a lot of people overestimate the difficulty of the DLC dungeons.

Especially on normal. The hardest normal I had was Cradle of Shadows and that was ages ago. Vet however is a different story if you're not accustomed to the mechanics.

GamerAeryn wrote: »

Firstly I'd like to state that I don't group with pugs, I "friends only" play, I don't shove myself into the solo queue, and you've never had to kick me from your group of 3 for low dps/CP (because it's never happened to me) so that's not what this is about, but I wanna say something.

I play solo 98% of my time. I find the most enjoyment from doing quests I've read 15 times and getting shards I've see 30+ times. But on the rare occasion I do want to group and respond to a friend's "hey, join us for a random normal?" most of the time we end up with a DLC dungeon. So, ZOS specifically makes these more difficult and complex than the base game. They're an entire DLC, after all, and require more time and even on normal, a loose understanding of mechanics. Since I avoid such things like the plague, having these for normals instantly makes me say "let's drop and wait it out." which invariably means we'll get a *different* DLC dungeon in our random normal. It's like the finder specifically wants me to have a bad time. Because it knows.... lol.

The only way for me to avoid this is for myself or my friends to unsub because there's no way in fresh hell that I'd buy a dungeon DLC. But then I'd lose my sub benefits and ZOS would lose it's bi-yearly $77. No, there's got to be another way. I know you'll say, just don't do randoms. But I like xp, I want the stupid crafting mat from the mail, I want to help out my friends, and I know and enjoy literally every base game dungeon. Just not the DLC. I have no interest, I haven't even been *in* 8 of them, and I don't want to be. Yes, we pick normal, but that doesn't mean they're nice and mindlessly easy like we were expecting say, Direfrost to be.

Anyway, rant over. I'd just like a button, you know? A DLC opt-out of some sort. I know they work hard, and I know there's those of you that enjoy them... just leave me out of it. I'll be hunting that last bit of paper I need in Cyrodiil to complete my collection. ((tips hat and heads off))

The only suggestion I can really give you is to get good at least for normal DLC dungeons. They are not really hard.

AlnilamE · August 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

weg0 wrote: »

I have trouble believing that four people that read several guides and use “semi-BiS” gear can’t tackle a normal dungeon.

Why sure, shaming is totally useful.

And by Semi-BIS, if it requires trial gear, we don't have it. If it requires gold jewellery - half of us don't have it.

For me, if it requires a lot of global awareness (i.e. keeping track of signals from the Big Boss and timing, and other bits springing up) I stink at it. Skype helps a LOT, but I'm still slow at noting certain things.

Um to be honest, this isn't "all" things, but the last one that we just could not get past was ... Cradle of Shadows, the Dranos dude where the statue is hanging up side down.

As an example,

https://www.justpushstart.com/2016/08/elder-scrolls-online-cradle-shadows-dungeon-guide/

Lists an explanation that runs like this:

"This fight might not be the hardest, but it is probably the second most mechanic driven fight in the dungeon. All you need to do is damage the boss and avoid the AoE that the statue in the middle shoots. After a while Dranos will teleport around dropping AoEs, which is your cue he is going to grab someone. The person he picks will be the last person attacked and when he picks you everyone needs to run over and shield bash the adds. This will instantly kill them and the person affected can get up. Once you get up make sure to block or you’ll probably die to the DoT.

After specific points he will summons adds and become immune to damage. Kill the adds, step in the AoE thing and that will make him damageable again. Rinse and repeat until you win."

1-Is there something that the tank can/should be doing?

2-Damage the boss with anything in particular? Do we need to worry about particular buffs, immunities?

3-Since "shield bash" is sort of a tank move, what do non-tanks do instead? In order to get there in time, looks like you have to put some sort of rush/speed thing on your bar?

4-Ahhh...didn't see the "block the DoT"; first - how do I know when it's happening, second - I suck at blocking, hence why I'm rarely a tank. What do I look for - somehow Dranos dies and then does a DoT? If he is dead, how is he doing damage?

I'm just lost.

And banging my head against a wall is not what I do for fun.

I do that at work way too often. (or think about it, at any rate).

Yeah, that guy requires practice. I'm still not entirely confident in that fight, and I think it's the hardest in the dungeon because it's pretty intense. But here's what I can offer:

1. Tank: When the boss spawns adds and becomes invulnerable, the tank can taunt the boss and kite him around the room making him run through the adds. This has the same effect as killing them (they will be absorbed by the boss) and the boss becomes attackable again.

2. I'm not aware of bosses having any special resistances.

3. Any character can bash. You do that by holding Block (RMB) and then left-clicking (LMB). This is super useful to interrupt casters or characters that are charging an attack. You can practice that when you are standing around. You will see your character moving their weapons forward.

4. That's something I never remember to do. The DoT will be on you if you were the person stunned by the boss. So as soon as you are no longer stunned, hold block.

I hope that helps. It's not a fight I have a ton of experience yet. :-)

Guppet · August 2018

So little empathy shown here.

Firstly those who say chances are slim clearly don’t understand probability. It’s one in four, so 25% chance to get a DLC. That’s as a base.

Secondly people are just bloody minded if they say “it’s random you play what it gives you”. No people don’t, that’s the point, they quit and try again later. They will still get thier xp bonus, you can’t force them to play it.

And this is the thing they forget most. The current situation screws over those that actually want to play dlc, they get players dropping one after another and queue endlessly. If it was a specific queue, it would take a little longer, but the players they get wouldn’t drop group.

Also people can opt out of dlc completely, by unsubbing. You do realise that hurts ZoS much more than putting in a tick box and hurting the feelings of those who want to force others to play them.

AlnilamE · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

So little empathy shown here.

Firstly those who say chances are slim clearly don’t understand probability. It’s one in four, so 25% chance to get a DLC. That’s as a base.

Secondly people are just bloody minded if they say “it’s random you play what it gives you”. No people don’t, that’s the point, they quit and try again later. They will still get thier xp bonus, you can’t force them to play it.

And this is the thing they forget most. The current situation screws over those that actually want to play dlc, they get players dropping one after another and queue endlessly. If it was a specific queue, it would take a little longer, but the players they get wouldn’t drop group.

Also people can opt out of dlc completely, by unsubbing. You do realise that hurts ZoS much more than putting in a tick box and hurting the feelings of those who want to force others to play them.

It's not a matter of empathy. The random dungeon was designed as a "sword for hire" system. That's what it's supposed to do. If people don't like the dungeon they got into, they can leave. And they will get a 15 minute penalty.

People who really don't want to do a quarter of the dungeons (and probably more, because they probably don't want to do CoA II or CoH II either) should maybe just queue for all the ones they want to do. They are not forced to use the random dungeon finder. But they want the XP bonus.

Like, I'm as happy as the next person to have a quick run through Spindleclutch when I queue for a dungeon. But if I get Cradle of Shadows instead, them's the breaks and I'll hold up my end of the bargain.

weg0 · August 2018

@newtinmpls, I didn’t mean to shame you. Sorry bout that.

You don’t need trial gear. Julianos/Hundings + spc/bsw/ms/spriggans/spinners/... is fine. Tank should have Ebon though right? Purple or blue jewelerly is also more than enough.

1. Tank needs to keep aggro and not die. Try to keep boss halfway between entrance and middle statue.

2. Damage the boss with a regular rotation when possible (keep DoTs up, use spammables, maintain resource pools). Stay close for when the chain adds spawn.

3. Just use the normal bash. Roll dodge and sprint to gap close if tank gets pinned down.

4. When center statue starts spewing red flames just step out of the way or block them. When distant adds spawn, send dps to kill them and collect the red essence balls.

Not sure what guide says he dies then a dot comes, but that is not right.

Another thing, eventhough you may not have/ be using BiS gear, check out the slotted skills for your respective roles on alcast’s website (or dottz). Tank shouldn’t be using shield bash (its killer in pvp but unnecessary/inefficient in pve) for example.

DanteYoda · August 2018

I'm like the op tbh lol

I've done one dungeon in 4 years, i've never done a trial and i avoid pvp.. I still enjoy the DLCs but not their dungeons.. Honestly i only used dropped gears and bought gears.

I'm all for the button idea as well

weg0 wrote: »

And @newtinmpls, you ain’t ever gonna get good if you try to avoid anything that challenges you. If you fall off, dust yourself off and try again.

I'm here to enjoy virtual entertainment i have no need to "get gud", in a online game.. Fast hand eye coordination and good ping time is not my opinion of being a great person.. Sorry..

Linaleah · August 2018

Krayl wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and no, they are not THAT easy, not if you are only casually occasionally doing dungeons and do not run minmaxed builds/rotations

There are delves and group dungeons in zones for 'casual' players.

There are veteran and hard mode dungeons for 'hard core' players.

group dungeons assume you have an interested in at least somewhat coordinated group content - meaning you're actually trying to perform well with a group.

if you're not interested in being effective and actually trying, don't queue up with random people who will be - group with your friends and go run delves and public dungeons.

OP stated that they are a group of friends queueing up for a NORMAL, without any random players in a mix - they are not pugging. random dungeon, in part becasue of rewards that you get for running a normal RANDOM dungeon.

and DLC dungeons? are simply not fun for the rest of us plebs. you see, elitists have a very different definition of trying to perform well from the rest of us, that is the problem with current ceiling and this game's combat in general. and nowhere does it show up more than in DLC dungeons.

leave vet dungeons to those of you who are performance oriented. normal dungeons should not be a pain with unforgiving mechanics, when you are not a minmaxing weaving god in a group with other minmaxing weaving gods.

Itacira · August 2018

The thing I'm reminded more and more on this forum is how much humans as a whole tend to abhor change. We like stability. Change that we don't personally feel is necessary tends to make us feel defensive because we don't perceive the point. Worth : we feel threatened by it.

Everything seems different. Change is meant to bring something different, but how different? We are creatures of habit. Routines become automatic, but change jolts us into consciousness, sometimes in uncomfortable ways. Too many differences can be distracting or confusing.

It’s also that [people] genuinely believe (often on an unconscious level) that when you’ve been doing something a particular way for some time, it must be a good way to do things. And the longer you’ve been doing it that way, the better it is.

So change isn’t simply about embracing something unknown — it’s about giving up something old (and therefore good) for something new (and therefore not good)*.

*I might have worded this differently myself : "something new (and therefore that contains a risk of not being as good)" because I feel it's more complicated than good/not good. It's the status quo, and the risk that disrupting the status quo will make things worse instead of better.

Luckily, we are more than our instincts. It's not a fatality !

[...]Our brains. It likes familiar things. We NEED to get things familiarized, if we HAVE to function on a day-to-day basis. CHANGE requires extra EFFORT, and effort is an expenditure of ENERGY. And nature always believes in conservation of energy.
[...]
You will not like change. Any change. Your brain will try every possible way to reject it. It may tell you its not worth it, or you are not worth it and so on. But once you show a little will power in getting through this rejecting stage, your brain will understand it has no other option but to learn it and familiarize it for you. The worst critique now becomes your biggest supporter.
So just patiently allow your brain to fret and throw tantrums. Like a small kid that tries to get what it wants with all its antics, so will your brain behave. Just observe it.

BASICALLY, once we're done with the kneejerk reaction of utter refusal when faced with the possibility of change (don't I know it, I was pretty annoyed when tumblr changed its logo some years or so ago I mean HOW DARE THEY) it's good to give it a second thought and take some distance.

Also, empathy ! Empathy is always a good thing.

FloppyTouch · August 2018

My issue with dlc dungeons is they are just to long for me not hard. Like ICP is easy as hell but I just hate how long even with a good group and running past the mobs. Like like the length of the other dungeons other then CoA2 that's a little long. I only have a few hours to play every day i dont want half my time taken up inside a dungeon.

That's why I do them once on normal once on vet then I never return. Trials are the same way and vma just to long for me.

Starlock · August 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm like the op tbh lol

I've done one dungeon in 4 years, i've never done a trial and i avoid pvp.. I still enjoy the DLCs but not their dungeons.. Honestly i only used dropped gears and bought gears.

I'm all for the button idea as well

weg0 wrote: »

And @newtinmpls, you ain’t ever gonna get good if you try to avoid anything that challenges you. If you fall off, dust yourself off and try again.

I'm here to enjoy virtual entertainment i have no need to "get gud", in a online game.. Fast hand eye coordination and good ping time is not my opinion of being a great person.. Sorry..

But.... but.... everyone should be a competitive gamer!!!

Sometimes, I wonder what these forums would look like if they were dominated by non-competitive folks who focus on things like creativity in character development and RP. Like... completing some of this content would be a serious accomplishment when you aren't chasing some min-max strategy.

And now I feel inspired to create a naked Nord character and beat the game with no weapons or armor ever... because. Don’t worry, I won’t que for random dungeons.

weg0 · August 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm like the op tbh lol

I've done one dungeon in 4 years, i've never done a trial and i avoid pvp.. I still enjoy the DLCs but not their dungeons.. Honestly i only used dropped gears and bought gears.

If you wish to stay outa dungeons, fine. But this is a post about dungeons... so...

And I am not saying your self worth should be defined by your ability to complete a dungeon. The OP is saying specifically that he wants to get the rewards from completing the random daily dungeon delve but is unwilling to participate in and learn how to complete the DLC dungeons.

As @AlnilamE already pointed out, those incentives are there to make the dungeon group finder work for the greatest number of people. I am trying to offer encouragement to grow and learn a new part of the game so the OP and others have even more to enjoy. It was hard for me once too. But after you beat it a few times it is a cake walk on normal and very doable on vet.

@DanteYoda, enjoy the game how you want to man. But you already admitted you don’t have any experience with the topic of this thread. So, to be fair, I don’t have much reason to appreciate your opinion. If you ever do get in the random pug queue, and we get to team up, I’ll be happy to help however I can.

idk · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

except... they didn't lower the ceiling, they boosted it up so high, its near unreachable.

DLC dungeons are less of a DPS race vs working the mechanics. A group with average dps can do them just fine if they can follow the mechanics. If they die a lot then it will be a challenge.

mongoLC · August 2018

Yes DLC dungeons and the mechanics involved are killing the game. They aren't fun. Ain't nobody got time for those mechanics. I wish zos would get their heads out of their asses. Some mechanics are cool once in awhile but not every damn boss.

DuskMarine · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

What makes them feel rough? Is it mechs, DPS race, engagment? What would make them fun?

@Tasear im an endgame player got the best stuff in the game but even i have to admit dps races are bull. that is the only thing that takes away from the experience other than that the stuff is just common sense.

DuskMarine · August 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

you need to be doing the dlcs anyway or your truly not enjoying the game). trials and stuff make these dungeons easier so why not do them. with the odds of dungeons(even on normal and no you dont have to do them on vet) dlc dungeons are fairly easy to understand after a couple tries.

I think that by now we both have figured out that "if I played like you, it wouldn't be fun for me."

I don't care for trials, don't do PvP (much - sometimes if a good leader will tell me what to do) but sometimes will have fun with it. Don't like "mechanics" that I can't really figure out, or that I just can't "make work"

Loath DPS gates with a purple passion - I would like credit for hiding/sneaking, or slow work.

my main question is why did you join a mmorpg if you have no intentions of doing all the content??? thats just a waste of money at that point. youd be better off just buying a single player game at that point. the other elder scrolls games are built for you guys eso just isnt.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

You say you haven't been in 8 of them and then say they aren't easy on normal. How do you even know? They are all pretty easy on normal. But either way, random dungeon is random dungeon. If you could opt out, it wouldn't be random anymore.

As someone who's played them:

Most of them are easy enough on normal. The latest two are not in a million years easy on normal. Their so mechanically based on difficulty that the oneshot mechanics oneshot on normal too.

So nobody's gonna play them, normal or not. Nobody who didn't want difficulty.

Battle_Hymn · August 2018

I am all for the button,as long as the XP bonus is removed.