Dungeon Rant (from a casual)

Vivecc

dear OP , you know that you can select any dungeons you and your friends like , no need to resort to the random one if that gives you so much grief.

Oh i know, you will be say " but the extra xp…."
just see it like this, the amount of xp you need to catch up to ( current 780 cp) is more than any daily random will help you cover in a reasonable amount. So you can just skip that .
And given by chance you already at 780 cp , then you do not need this little bonus at all

best regards

newtinmpls

DuskMarine wrote: »

my main question is why did you join a mmorpg if you have no intentions of doing all the content??? thats just a waste of money at that point. youd be better off just buying a single player game at that point. the other elder scrolls games are built for you guys eso just isnt.

Rather than re-quote the whole post, I'll simply restate that I dislike trials, PvP (mostly - on occasion it's fun, and I have two characters (oddly both dunmer/mag/DK) who leveled almost entirely in IC), but overall I'm rarely in Cyrodil. I don't like mechanics that are too hard to figure out, or that mostly don't work (for me).

I like questing, mostly.
I like crafting; less so since the outfit system dropped (and I don't like it much, but such is life)
I like puttering around with weird housing stuff; I think I've purchased 3 ... maybe 4 and have done serious work on Humblemud and the Rosy Lion room..just not in a rush.
I like doing dolmens, I miss the days when no one could one-man them.
I like doing undaunted - with friends.

Mostly I bought it to play around in ESO with friends. I do that. A lot. I enjoy that. A lot.

I think at last count someone noted there are about 80 dailies (or more). I'm delighted that Tamriel has .. to steal from the Lion King soundtrack "more to do than can ever be done". I have two accounts with at least a dozen characters each, plus an account that I meant to gift someone (who ended up not wanting it) plus a smattering of characters on EU (I mostly play NA). Of all those, maybe 3 are fully "trained" on horse riding. None have done all three alliance full quest-lines (yes, Caldwell still awaits).

Despite having subscribed pretty much since shortly after PC release, I have not finished the assassins or thieves quest-lines, because I really don't care for that playstyle.

So there is a lot I haven't done.

That's okay.

I'm still here, still subbed, and still having fun.

N00BxV1

As someone who's purchased all dlc in the game (un-subbing won't get rid of it), I welcome the option to opt-out of dlc for random dungeons. Just because I've purchased the content does not mean that I want to do it all the time...

I seem to get dlc a lot for random dungeons. The dlc dungeons are harder and take longer but give the exact same rewards as non-dlc - Why does Fungal Grotto 1 give the same rewards as White-Gold Tower when the difficulty and times to complete each are wildly different?!

Also the rewards should not be reduced if opting-out of dlc - Why should dlc owners be penalized for not wanting to do the content, while someone who does not own the dlc is able to do easier content in less time and for the same rewards?!

- Give us an option to opt-out of the dlc that we've paid for.
- Increase rewards for dlc since it's harder and takes longer than non-dlc.

ankeor

AlnilamE wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

So little empathy shown here.

Firstly those who say chances are slim clearly don’t understand probability. It’s one in four, so 25% chance to get a DLC. That’s as a base.

Secondly people are just bloody minded if they say “it’s random you play what it gives you”. No people don’t, that’s the point, they quit and try again later. They will still get thier xp bonus, you can’t force them to play it.

And this is the thing they forget most. The current situation screws over those that actually want to play dlc, they get players dropping one after another and queue endlessly. If it was a specific queue, it would take a little longer, but the players they get wouldn’t drop group.

Also people can opt out of dlc completely, by unsubbing. You do realise that hurts ZoS much more than putting in a tick box and hurting the feelings of those who want to force others to play them.

It's not a matter of empathy. The random dungeon was designed as a "sword for hire" system. That's what it's supposed to do. If people don't like the dungeon they got into, they can leave. And they will get a 15 minute penalty.

People who really don't want to do a quarter of the dungeons (and probably more, because they probably don't want to do CoA II or CoH II either) should maybe just queue for all the ones they want to do. They are not forced to use the random dungeon finder. But they want the XP bonus.

Like, I'm as happy as the next person to have a quick run through Spindleclutch when I queue for a dungeon. But if I get Cradle of Shadows instead, them's the breaks and I'll hold up my end of the bargain.

I pretty much disagree with what OP says and people who share his/her opinion yet it's their taste who I am to judge.
But the thing is if 4 men group queues for random normals, there is no "sword for hire" situation. I mean you are helping no one else, the group is premade already. At that point having to do nFL instead of nCoA is just sh*tty RNG.

Linaleah

idk wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

except... they didn't lower the ceiling, they boosted it up so high, its near unreachable.

DLC dungeons are less of a DPS race vs working the mechanics. A group with average dps can do them just fine if they can follow the mechanics. If they die a lot then it will be a challenge.

twitchy.. unforgiving.. mechanics, with a doze of rng. not everyone has fast reflexes. you can understand mechanics but not move quickly enough, have horrible latency, so by the time you see mechanic and start adjusting to it - its too late, etc etc. there should be NO one or two shots in normals. telegraphs should have longer timers to give people more of a chance to get out of them. and so on. and so forth.

last but not least. your definition of average dps is not the same as actual average dps. I'm guess you would concider about 20 maybe 25k to be average dps? how about half that for your average casual player that doesn't go into vets? this again is what I'm talking about. what elite player see as average is very different from actual average.

so yeah. let people opt out of DLC dungeons only. create 2 random queues where DLC queue gives better rewards. adjust normal modes to be closer in line with vanilla dungeons. something.

Guppet

When you cancel your sub on pc, does it let you say why? That’s the only way to solve this. If enough unsub and say they are doing so, to remove dlc from thier random dungeons list.

I’m on PS4 now, do just remove card details to unsub. Was on PC but never I subbed till the transfer, which was a long time ago, so can’t remrmber.

RavenSworn

I have no objections to this. Having an option to choose out of the dlc dungeons would seem prudent in light of your own experience.

However, there is a legitimate concern on the queues of those who wishes to complete a daily random and wanting a dlc dungeon. Wouldn't that affect their queue times?

Again as one of the poster had said, players will, and have been taking the easier route. Your own experience is an example of this.

What's the use of ZoS making dunveon dlcs if no one is going to do them? And if they need to add incentives such as more gold, better loot.. That is the way paved to p2w hell.

This is really an issue of just trying to learn the mechanics. Make it a challenge on your daily ritual. It is on normal, dlc vet I can truly say its harder than steamrolling regular dungeons. But normal dlc... I don't know op. In this instance I might say "learn the mechanics." because it is all there is to it.

Caligamy_ESO

@ OP, if one of your friends doesn't sub have them lead and queue the random normal to avoid the DLC dungeons. I haven't subbed since Morrowind so I am usually the one to do this on my end.

Ydrisselle

DuskMarine wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

you need to be doing the dlcs anyway or your truly not enjoying the game). trials and stuff make these dungeons easier so why not do them. with the odds of dungeons(even on normal and no you dont have to do them on vet) dlc dungeons are fairly easy to understand after a couple tries.

I think that by now we both have figured out that "if I played like you, it wouldn't be fun for me."

I don't care for trials, don't do PvP (much - sometimes if a good leader will tell me what to do) but sometimes will have fun with it. Don't like "mechanics" that I can't really figure out, or that I just can't "make work"

Loath DPS gates with a purple passion - I would like credit for hiding/sneaking, or slow work.

my main question is why did you join a mmorpg if you have no intentions of doing all the content??? thats just a waste of money at that point. youd be better off just buying a single player game at that point. the other elder scrolls games are built for you guys eso just isnt.

Since I am also avoiding dungeons, I can answer you: single player games are boring me very fast, MMOs aren't. So I'm playing the way I want to do it, and I'm enjoying the game. As soon as it's changed, I leave and go to an other MMO.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Krayl

The fact of the matter is that the random dungeon daily xp bonus is just that - a bonus reward for using the random dungeon finder. You can do whatever dungeons you like without it. The bonus xp is a reward meant to entice people to using the finder despite the possible challenge of non-ideal groups or more difficult dungeons.

If you don't like it, and don't like the risk of drawing a dungeon you don't want to learn don't use the dungeon finder; queue for a bunch of dungeons you know and enjoy and do those with your friends. If you are content being a self-proclaimed "casual" then I fail to see how missing out on the daily reward xp matters all that much. There is absolutely no shame in being casual until you start complaining that it's not easy enough for you to get the daily xp reward. . . but you're obviously not needing the big daily chunk-o-xp if you have no desire to try harder content.

Linaleah

Krayl wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that the random dungeon daily xp bonus is just that - a bonus reward for using the random dungeon finder. You can do whatever dungeons you like without it. The bonus xp is a reward meant to entice people to using the finder despite the possible challenge of non-ideal groups or more difficult dungeons.

If you don't like it, and don't like the risk of drawing a dungeon you don't want to learn don't use the dungeon finder; queue for a bunch of dungeons you know and enjoy and do those with your friends. If you are content being a self-proclaimed "casual" then I fail to see how missing out on the daily reward xp matters all that much. There is absolutely no shame in being casual until you start complaining that it's not easy enough for you to get the daily xp reward. . . but you're obviously not needing the big daily chunk-o-xp if you have no desire to try harder content.

reminder. there are rewards associated with first daily dungeon that have nothing to do with xp. you know that bag of undaunted rewards? with its trait stones and transmute stones and stuff?

DuskMarine

Ydrisselle wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

you need to be doing the dlcs anyway or your truly not enjoying the game). trials and stuff make these dungeons easier so why not do them. with the odds of dungeons(even on normal and no you dont have to do them on vet) dlc dungeons are fairly easy to understand after a couple tries.

I think that by now we both have figured out that "if I played like you, it wouldn't be fun for me."

I don't care for trials, don't do PvP (much - sometimes if a good leader will tell me what to do) but sometimes will have fun with it. Don't like "mechanics" that I can't really figure out, or that I just can't "make work"

Loath DPS gates with a purple passion - I would like credit for hiding/sneaking, or slow work.

my main question is why did you join a mmorpg if you have no intentions of doing all the content??? thats just a waste of money at that point. youd be better off just buying a single player game at that point. the other elder scrolls games are built for you guys eso just isnt.

Since I am also avoiding dungeons, I can answer you: single player games are boring me very fast, MMOs aren't. So I'm playing the way I want to do it, and I'm enjoying the game. As soon as it's changed, I leave and go to an other MMO.

smh thats just saddening

GawdSB

Lol, when I queue up just wanting a simple vet dungeon for my daily random I always end up with a dlc. Got put into Bloodroot Forge yesterday and I told the group I was just looking for a regular dungeon. Of course, I don't just leave I try to complete it but if I see the group isn't capable of finishing I leave and my time has been wasted. There needs to be an option to exclude dlc's from the random queue, I don't ever want to do dlc dungeons (especially vet) with a random group of people in the first place.

Krayl

Yes. Rewards you absolutely don't need for if your goal in the game is to run the same easy dungeons you are familiar with repeatedly. Rewards you can earn if you wanted to use the random dungeon finder and risk a challenge to earn them. Good point!

Linaleah

Krayl wrote: »

Yes. Rewards you absolutely don't need for if your goal in the game is to run the same easy dungeons you are familiar with repeatedly. Rewards you can earn if you wanted to use the random dungeon finder and risk a challenge to earn them. Good point!

rewards that are easily accessible to people who are not subscribers and avoid buying dungeon DLC's! yes, such a wonderful system right there - lets give the same rewards for dungeon that takes 5 minutes and is super relaxing to run, and a place that takes.. a lot longer then 5 minutes and is a pain. rewards that are used for crafting, which generally is a SOLO endeavor. please. not to mention the whole... yes, lets make it suck for everyone, both people who have to keep backfilling their groups and people who are now waiting out their 15 minutes penalty.

LEAVE THE CHALLENGE FOR VETS. (speaking of which, why in a bloody hell random reward for vet is exactly the same as random reward for normal?)

DuskMarine

Linaleah wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Yes. Rewards you absolutely don't need for if your goal in the game is to run the same easy dungeons you are familiar with repeatedly. Rewards you can earn if you wanted to use the random dungeon finder and risk a challenge to earn them. Good point!

rewards that are easily accessible to people who are not subscribers and avoid buying dungeon DLC's! yes, such a wonderful system right there - lets give the same rewards for dungeon that takes 5 minutes and is super relaxing to run, and a place that takes.. a lot longer then 5 minutes and is a pain. rewards that are used for crafting, which generally is a SOLO endeavor. please. not to mention the whole... yes, lets make it suck for everyone, both people who have to keep backfilling their groups and people who are now waiting out their 15 minutes penalty.

LEAVE THE CHALLENGE FOR VETS. (speaking of which, why in a bloody hell random reward for vet is exactly the same as random reward for normal?)

cause only reason vets there is for the helms

Krayl

Linaleah wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Yes. Rewards you absolutely don't need for if your goal in the game is to run the same easy dungeons you are familiar with repeatedly. Rewards you can earn if you wanted to use the random dungeon finder and risk a challenge to earn them. Good point!

rewards that are easily accessible to people who are not subscribers and avoid buying dungeon DLC's! yes, such a wonderful system right there - lets give the same rewards for dungeon that takes 5 minutes and is super relaxing to run, and a place that takes.. a lot longer then 5 minutes and is a pain. rewards that are used for crafting, which generally is a SOLO endeavor. please. not to mention the whole... yes, lets make it suck for everyone, both people who have to keep backfilling their groups and people who are now waiting out their 15 minutes penalty.

LEAVE THE CHALLENGE FOR VETS. (speaking of which, why in a bloody hell random reward for vet is exactly the same as random reward for normal?)

The challenge is in vets. Sorry but the DLC dungeons are not hard on normal. They just aren't. Perhaps MMO's that require a little teamwork and learning are not for you.

Krayl

DuskMarine wrote: »

cause only reason vets there is for the helms

• Vets are more fun for testing your ability
• Vets w/hard mode, other achievements, and first time clear are a huge chunk of undaunted.
• Purple Jewelry
• If you're gear farming at least if its a vet group everyone is (likely) 160CP and can share gear.

Rain_Greyraven

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

templesus wrote: »

@ZOS these are the type of players you cater to when you raise the floor and lower the ceiling.

These are the “casuals” you are trying to appease.

Is this really the direction you want to take?

That is an obtuse statement.

I'm casual (extremely casual) and I have completed most of not all of the dungeons trails and delevs. It's all about the content you want to do, and if anyone doesn't want to do it FOR WHATEVER REASON that is their choice, but don't go around with broadcasting some silly theory that casuals are ruining the game.

The devs at Wildstar thought like you do...they are eating Ramen right now and begging NCsoft not to pull the plug, the Wizardry Online folks also shared your philosophy...not only did they close the game they shredded the code and the lead devs no longer work in the industry.

Game developers like money, casuals provide that, while most hardcores buy the base game and spend the next 12 years screaming about how it isn't challenging enough.

So don't think they are going to be listening to those "Big spenders" any time soon.

DuskMarine

Krayl wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

cause only reason vets there is for the helms

• Vets are more fun for testing your ability
• Vets w/hard mode, other achievements, and first time clear are a huge chunk of undaunted.
• Purple Jewelry
• If you're gear farming at least if its a vet group everyone is (likely) 160CP and can share gear.

nah its fun to do on normal. people do vet purely for the helms. purple jewelry nah you dont even need to worry about that anymore from dungeons just upgrade. and gear farming you can litterally do normal(yes i said normal) and upgrade it cause its faster. vets are purely there for helmets thats it(max undaunted an give zero attention about achievements). and as far as testing your ability hahaha no we got skeles for that too. so compared to years ago theyve lost their luster for anything outside of helmets.

Krayl

DuskMarine wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

cause only reason vets there is for the helms

• Vets are more fun for testing your ability
• Vets w/hard mode, other achievements, and first time clear are a huge chunk of undaunted.
• Purple Jewelry
• If you're gear farming at least if its a vet group everyone is (likely) 160CP and can share gear.

nah its fun to do on normal. people do vet purely for the helms. purple jewelry nah you dont even need to worry about that anymore from dungeons just upgrade. and gear farming you can litterally do normal(yes i said normal) and upgrade it cause its faster. vets are purely there for helmets thats it(max undaunted an give zero attention about achievements). and as far as testing your ability hahaha no we got skeles for that too. so compared to years ago theyve lost their luster for anything outside of helmets.

You continue to assume your opinion is everyone else's fact.

No one is upgrading any dungeon jewelry when it is easily had by doing vet.

DuskMarine

Krayl wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

cause only reason vets there is for the helms

• Vets are more fun for testing your ability
• Vets w/hard mode, other achievements, and first time clear are a huge chunk of undaunted.
• Purple Jewelry
• If you're gear farming at least if its a vet group everyone is (likely) 160CP and can share gear.

nah its fun to do on normal. people do vet purely for the helms. purple jewelry nah you dont even need to worry about that anymore from dungeons just upgrade. and gear farming you can litterally do normal(yes i said normal) and upgrade it cause its faster. vets are purely there for helmets thats it(max undaunted an give zero attention about achievements). and as far as testing your ability hahaha no we got skeles for that too. so compared to years ago theyve lost their luster for anything outside of helmets.

You continue to assume your opinion is everyone else's fact.

No one is upgrading any dungeon jewelry when it is easily had by doing vet.

opinion on this forum actually but ingame people are upgrading much more than their farming now.

Krayl

No, they aren't.

I'm an avid crafter and I had 40 jewelcrafting surveys to blow through when I capped JC at 50. Even after refining that tremendous amount of mats, I hardly have any upgrade materials. Most of the upgrade materials I do have come from breaking down purple jewelry - found in veteran dungeons which are for the most part not very challenging either at this point.

I'm sorry that you're misinformed and incorrect.

DuskMarine

Krayl wrote: »

No, they aren't.

I'm an avid crafter and I had 40 jewelcrafting surveys to blow through when I capped JC at 50. Even after refining that tremendous amount of mats, I hardly have any upgrade materials. Most of the upgrade materials I do have come from breaking down purple jewelry - found in veteran dungeons which are for the most part not very challenging either at this point.

I'm sorry that you're misinformed and incorrect.

im not misinformed or incorrect. ive asked so many times for people to run farm runs for jewelry and the overall answer is why when i can afford the mats to upgrade them. thats the vast majority of hours of posting outside of my guilds which about 25%-75% have the same thing why farm when you can just buy and upgrade. its a general consensus. most people farm purely for helmets or skins nothing else since recent changes.

weg0

What did you guys do before the group finder existed? You could always go back to doing that...

Nevasca

I think the suggestion is reasonable, but your rant is not.

You said yourself. If you don't like group content, no need to force yourself playing it, "avoid it like the plague". Simply refuse your friend's invitation if you hate it that much. If you do want to play dungeons regardless, I would suggest giving the content a fair chance and try to learn it. It's not something impossible to do, anyone can learn the game and be at the level of skill necessary to complete normal dlc dungeons as long as you give it a shot and try to understand the game. You can't play Chess without knowing the rules for example, a similar concept applies here. In normal dungeons you won't have the need to do x DPS to complete it, not even the DLC ones, the difficulty lies in the mechanics which do not demand "insane" reaction speeds.

N00BxV1

Krayl wrote: »

You continue to assume your opinion is everyone else's fact.

No one is upgrading any dungeon jewelry when it is easily had by doing vet.

Did you just assume your opinion is everyone else's fact too? lol

I've upgraded several pieces of jewelry so far - some has been from dlc dungeons and some from zones with no dolmens (baharaha's and briarheart). Why did I upgrade blue jewelry? Because I can since I spend time doing other things instead of wasting it in pug dlc.

Geekgirl

Perhaps the simple fix is that if a players ops to drop from a dungeon, they lose the ability to queue for that dungeon for 24 hours which also negates their ability to random and obtain the bonus and the XP awards.

This would keep people from dropping immediately out of DLC dungeons for an "easy" XP/Undaunted bonus award -- provided that this is what is prompting the issue.

Thoughts?

Krayl

Y

Geekgirl wrote: »

Perhaps the simple fix is that if a players ops to drop from a dungeon, they lose the ability to queue for that dungeon for 24 hours which also negates their ability to random and obtain the bonus and the XP awards.

This would keep people from dropping immediately out of DLC dungeons for an "easy" XP/Undaunted bonus award -- provided that this is what is prompting the issue.

Thoughts?

That would be fine if the dungeon finder worked flawlessly. Unfortunately too often people are dropped into a group only to find they can't port to players or to the dungeon directly and have to drop. It would be unfair to punish them for that. Some folks may need to drop for completely legitimate reasons.

N00BxV1 wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

You continue to assume your opinion is everyone else's fact.

No one is upgrading any dungeon jewelry when it is easily had by doing vet.

Did you just assume your opinion is everyone else's fact too? lol

I've upgraded several pieces of jewelry so far - some has been from dlc dungeons and some from zones with no dolmens (baharaha's and briarheart). Why did I upgrade blue jewelry? Because I can since I spend time doing other things instead of wasting it in pug dlc.

Fair point and my saying "no one" was poorly stated hyperbole. I'll still assert that for the most part farming up some jewelry in vets is preferable to using up upgrade materials in the majority of cases.