VaranisArano wrote: »

Hey, at least you have transmutation now, so you don't have to grind even more to get a useful item with a useful trait.

I was wondering when this was going to get said and hey wouldn't you know, it's the first reply. Im just a bit let down that it was you Varanis because you're not really that kinda person here on the forums from my experience.

[snip As these stupid and mind numbing grinds that are in MMO's and specifically, the reliance on RNG drop rates in vMA are for the game and its players.

Really though, the ESO vets need to get off the whole we-had-it-worse because as long as you keep talking about the good ol' days and how things aren't that bad now, ZOS isn't going to fix a damn thing. It's worse because you're now also enjoying the benefits of the new ESO all the while talking about how it was back in your day, as if the newer players to ESO don't/can't appreciate how hard it was to get the things you wanted in the game, and how utterly frustrating that was.

ESO can be better, it can be a leader in MMO's. This whole "MMO's are about grinding" is total and utter b.s. Yea, MMO's require hours of gameplay and a "grind" but there's a point where it is too much. It's not about the whole "You have to put in the hard work to get good things" either because...

vMA weapons for instance can be changed to a token system requiring a certain number of maximum runs to acquire the weapon you want. It won't hurt for vMA to change the drop method and there are indeed other parts of the game that could be tidied up a bit in terms of grind brutality. Change ain't bad.

[edited to remove inappropriate content]

Ragebull wrote: »

8 toons 0 writs and surveys

Good job fun game

RNG is quite cruel. I have received 2 big writs, a 92 and 42 but the rest have been small 6 or 7's. Surveys drop maybe one or two a week for each craft.

But I think they need to be stingy with surveys or else the market would wind up flooded with mats, tanking prices.

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Heh, if RNG bothers you that much then this might be the wrong game to play. I'm not a fan of how much RNG is in this game, but once you have more of an 'whatever' mindset the whole 'oh look I got a 100+ voucher master writ' thing becomes really enjoyable. I am learning motifs on my alt to increase the drop chance for master writs, but I know it's like a drop in the ocean of RNG

But that's what I'm talking about. Why are we forced to take a "eh, whatever" kind of mindset to even enjoy the game? That defeats the whole purpose of playing a video game. RL is enough of "eh whatever" I mean hell, I have to have that mindset anytime I hear the news.

ESO can increase it's fun factor by working on key areas of the RNG frustration and make the game more rewarding directly with token systems that reward you as you complete content.

vMA weapons- tokens. Surveys-tokens. Token systems give a player a finite number that they have to WORK for and at the end of the day see progress towards what they want which is mentally more rewarding and reduces the anxiety of RNG.

Let's face it, none of us, save maybe a few masochists out there, really enjoys being put through the RNG ringer.

Ragebull wrote: »

8 toons 0 writs and surveys

Good job fun game

I've got 1 toon and get writs of varying value and surveys on a regular basis. I don't know if your RNG just sucks, but I have made sure that toon is pretty well set up for getting those Master Writs. I know 40ish complete motifs, know plenty of recipes, and know all the alchemy reagents and enchanting runes.

Now, I realize that's still anecdota, during the Anniversary event when I was running writs on 4 characters that had master crafting, I got noticeably more master writs over those 3 weeks on my full crafter character than I did on the 3 that didn't know motifs, recipes, reagents, and runes. Its still all RNG, but over a long period of time, I saw the difference.

19 toons... and even when I don't get surveys or master writs I end up with enough gold just from turning them in to cover the mat cost to do the equipment writs. The gold upgrade mats received from equipment writs will more than cover the cost of the consumables. This is not a gold loss situation by any means. In fact when many players ask how to make gold in game, many players point out doing writs is a good way.

The vMA situation, may be like every other rng loot in the game. You seem more likely to get something your character would not use. Whether it's true or not, I personally make sure if I'm farming a mag item that I'm on a stam character and vice versa.

idk wrote: »

Edit: and complaining about vMA drops when many grinding for their weapons when trait change was not a thing will not get much sympathy.

And this...again...comes up so often. Seriously, this argument is so old now. I'm so over hearing people hold their horrible experiences over peoples head. We aren't asking for sympathy! We are asking for change to a system that was totally flawed and wrong to start with and was only marginally made better by the addition of a system (transmutation) that should have really never been needed in the first place. For vMA weapons that is.

Look, y'all had it rough, we get it. This Orsinium event has brought A LOT of folks to vMA, some that probably shouldn't be there yet and has led to A LOT of complaining. Yes, this is an argument that has been going on for some time now but frankly, games need to change and adapt to its player base. Grinding is no longer welcome because frankly, new generations of players aren't willing/able to stand the b.s. of RNG drops. "back in the day" that was the norm in MMO's but they need to change and understand that society/culture is changing too. This is the way the whole world is right now, change.

We can sit back and be all "this is the way it's always been" or we can understand that it was a flawed system even back in the early days of MMO's. Grinds like lorebooks are one thing (try that crap on console without addons) and then the whole RNG reward factor is another.

I bet theres some Masters student studying the effects of RNG on the psyche of a gamer. Hell, that was the whole reason for Deltia's meltdown (besides some apparent personal issues). Games shouldn't push people over the edge, they should be bringing them back from it.

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@VaranisArano Sorry we caught you in a rough mood. You're right, this is all ZOS is giving us but look at 2h changes. That was a horse that was well beaten into the ground and it finally came. There are some flaws in the game that are just inevitable, like bugs. I can't imagine how many lines of code or whatever are in the game that wind up conflicting and they can't for-see it.

However, a deliberate system like RNG drops is and has been a flawed system for years and we need you veterans to help us change it to where we are all rewarded for hard work, based on our hard work. Can you imagine going into work IRL and getting paid based off RNG? RNG belongs in one place, Vegas. It shouldn't be in a video game in this manner, determining rewards to the extent it does in this game.

A moment of silence for those of us getting useless Jewelry crafting writs But hey there's always the writs that are worth 2-5 like enchanting and alchemy....they add up...eventually...

Sogreth wrote: »

People really don't like grinding anywhere it seems. And here, it sounds more "grindy" than other MMOs. Which is funny, because I just came from the WoW forums and people are STILL complaining about a small reputation grind to unlock a cosmetic race.

It makes me wonder why they play MMOs in the first place. Perhaps a single player game, with not much "grinding" at all is more your pace?

The grind is real even in single player games nowadays!

This is only my opinion, But the rewards for vMA seem currently out of line with the time and effort put into it. It takes less time to run certain vdungeons(hm) and vtrials than to run vMA. The Arena also requires killing many more bosses and has multiple stages in each fight. Yet the weapon types are still hidden behind RnG makes little sense to me. Getting 4 resto staves and 3 ice staves instead of an inferno and lightning staff can be quite frustrating, and underwhelming.

There actually are some possible solutions and probably other even better suggestions out there besides this one, but this was just quickly off the top of my head. I'm sure the details could even be fleshed out better over time, but the basic jist of it is that there could be an exchange vendor either inside or outside of the MA that takes 2 or 3 of your already earned weapons and exchanges them directly for a weapon type of your choice, like a 2for1 or 3for1 exchange.

With an exchange system for vMA in place , people who have done it at least two or three times don't come away with a negative feeling towards the harder PvE content. This would be more of a compromise and doesn't take all that much away from total in game grinding, but does give some relief in that regard. It would make the goal reward a bit more attainable within a more reasonable amount of time.

We surely have plenty of other things left to grind in the game. I never saw much of a need to grind a solo content dungeon that is always the same from beginning to end, except maybe for the achievement seeking, but that is just imho.

Let's face it. Sometimes too much grind is too much grind and too much RnG is just too much RnG, and I applaud anyone who takes the time to come into these forums and make suggestions that might lead to increasing the fun factor to benefit us all in the game.

You want to know how a game developer/publisher really feels about their customers? Look no farther than what they sell, how they sell it and how much artificial extra grind they design into the game play.

There IS a certain amount of grind and RNG that makes games more fun... up to a point. It's pretty easy to see when that grind is designed for fun and when it's designed to just keep you hanging around longer.