Does More Siege = More Fun?

IxSTALKERxI · August 2018

We've had OP siege before... it's never ended well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgXwB_tVBs

Miriel · August 2018

YES - More Siege = More Fun

Joy_Division wrote: »

Miriel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

They made the change because people keep asking ZOS to make siege viable Vs "ball groups"

What they don't seem to understand is that if you make something so powerful that it hurts ball groups, it absolutely destroys the very "casual" players they seem to want to cater to.

"Ball groups" are always going to have the resources and players to use the expensive and overly specialized skills like Purge and Siege shield to better deal with the siege.

Thats not true, its sort of hard to chase the single solo pug player with a siege template, while as a ball zerg, need to stay in a proximity to each other...

The only thing that can break up a ball zerg is a bigger or equally skilled ball zerg, or siege, and siege can be operated by anyone, you dont need to be a ball zerg for that...

And again dont stand in the red spot...

Okie, if that makes you feel good, go right on thinking that.

Its a fact... I try to help new players earn AP, and a very good way in doing so is buy a scatter/meatbag cata, and as a low level stack that up on a breach... That can be done by anyone, regardless of level, skill or cp, and a great way for new to feel their help full...

To give you a example, To see a a zerg trying to run through a breach with oil, scatters, meat, bubbles... the few that get past, isnt exactly in a good shape and can mostly be taken care off...

Why take away the ONE tool a new player with little skill can use to feel they are contributing ?... Pvp is in a bad shape as it is, we dont need to make it harder for new players or take away the few tools they have right off the bat... To be honest, you been around long enough and should know better !

PS, they could make them do more damage, it isnt exactly rocket science to understand to NOT stand in the red spot

Kelces · August 2018

I would simply call it a greater challenge dealing with them. They have certainly getting way stronger, especially the scattershot catapult which in my opinion is the only thing that might need narrower radius or the DoT removed, would make more sense compared to the meatbag where something actually can make some damage lingering on the ground.

Maybe it has to do with the visibility aswell, somethimes you don't see anything, like at times with the coldharbour ballistas, where you didn't see anything but your character falling down out of nothing. So as asoon this is handled, we might have some actual balance between newcomers who contribute with their first defensive seiges and some fair chance to get through all those red circles alive (if they are visible at all).

Joy_Division · August 2018

NO - More Siege = Less Fun

Miriel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Miriel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

They made the change because people keep asking ZOS to make siege viable Vs "ball groups"

What they don't seem to understand is that if you make something so powerful that it hurts ball groups, it absolutely destroys the very "casual" players they seem to want to cater to.

"Ball groups" are always going to have the resources and players to use the expensive and overly specialized skills like Purge and Siege shield to better deal with the siege.

Thats not true, its sort of hard to chase the single solo pug player with a siege template, while as a ball zerg, need to stay in a proximity to each other...

The only thing that can break up a ball zerg is a bigger or equally skilled ball zerg, or siege, and siege can be operated by anyone, you dont need to be a ball zerg for that...

And again dont stand in the red spot...

Okie, if that makes you feel good, go right on thinking that.

Its a fact... I try to help new players earn AP, and a very good way in doing so is buy a scatter/meatbag cata, and as a low level stack that up on a breach... That can be done by anyone, regardless of level, skill or cp, and a great way for new to feel their help full...

To give you a example, To see a a zerg trying to run through a breach with oil, scatters, meat, bubbles... the few that get past, isnt exactly in a good shape and can mostly be taken care off...

Why take away the ONE tool a new player with little skill can use to feel they are contributing ?... Pvp is in a bad shape as it is, we dont need to make it harder for new players or take away the few tools they have right off the bat... To be honest, you been around long enough and should know better !

PS, they could make them do more damage, it isnt exactly rocket science to understand to NOT stand in the red spot

It's an opinion, not a fact.

You don't think that maybe, just maybe, allowing those players to actually learn how to use their abilities and experience what it''s like fighting other players may help them more in the long run? I mean sure, let the PuG stand on the meatbag catapult that is receiving incoming siege fire and on top of multiple stacking DoTs/debuffs is a great way to introduce them to the fun that is cyrodiil. Especially when they are 100% defenseless if the "ball group" decides to use a catapult as a rally/attack point (which they all do).

Yeah, the Zerg trying to run through a siege breech is in bad shape afterward. How do you think the uncoordinated player who was destroyed because they don't have siege shields, purge, rapid maneuver, and pocket healers fared? I'm totally sure that was a pleasant experience that they just can't wait to hop on their horse and ride back just to repeat.

It isn't rocket science to not stand in red spots, but it's obviously not as easy as you and others are making it out to be: especially when you set up siege that are soon covered in red zones, which means players take a huge amount of damage to even use the "ONE tool" you deem necessary in the first place. This does not even get into places such as the Inner keep that is so small the entire area is covered in overlapping catapult Dots/Debuffs.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · August 2018

NO - More Siege = Less Fun

Just like to point out that it's almost possible to blanket both flags with red. I've always been curious for those who say "don't stand in red" how do you prevent flag flips or capture flags?

As an example a few days ago at bleaks, as a defender, the entire front area and back area were red, even halfway up the stairs. There are a few nooks you can hide but once again, to push an attacking force off flag both groups will be "standing in stupid".

I've often assumed those that say don't stand in red (in PvP) aren't actually the ones attempting to flip or defend a flag, but waiting to collect the tick your alliance members gifted you.

Sidenote, fighting for the flag is usually really intense and awesome. Get out of the back or off the top, try it some time.

Miriel · August 2018

YES - More Siege = More Fun

Joy_Division wrote: »

Miriel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Miriel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

They made the change because people keep asking ZOS to make siege viable Vs "ball groups"

What they don't seem to understand is that if you make something so powerful that it hurts ball groups, it absolutely destroys the very "casual" players they seem to want to cater to.

"Ball groups" are always going to have the resources and players to use the expensive and overly specialized skills like Purge and Siege shield to better deal with the siege.

Thats not true, its sort of hard to chase the single solo pug player with a siege template, while as a ball zerg, need to stay in a proximity to each other...

The only thing that can break up a ball zerg is a bigger or equally skilled ball zerg, or siege, and siege can be operated by anyone, you dont need to be a ball zerg for that...

And again dont stand in the red spot...

Okie, if that makes you feel good, go right on thinking that.

Its a fact... I try to help new players earn AP, and a very good way in doing so is buy a scatter/meatbag cata, and as a low level stack that up on a breach... That can be done by anyone, regardless of level, skill or cp, and a great way for new to feel their help full...

To give you a example, To see a a zerg trying to run through a breach with oil, scatters, meat, bubbles... the few that get past, isnt exactly in a good shape and can mostly be taken care off...

Why take away the ONE tool a new player with little skill can use to feel they are contributing ?... Pvp is in a bad shape as it is, we dont need to make it harder for new players or take away the few tools they have right off the bat... To be honest, you been around long enough and should know better !

PS, they could make them do more damage, it isnt exactly rocket science to understand to NOT stand in the red spot

It's an opinion, not a fact.

You don't think that maybe, just maybe, allowing those players to actually learn how to use their abilities and experience what it''s like fighting other players may help them more in the long run? I mean sure, let the PuG stand on the meatbag catapult that is receiving incoming siege fire and on top of multiple stacking DoTs/debuffs is a great way to introduce them to the fun that is cyrodiil. Especially when they are 100% defenseless if the "ball group" decides to use a catapult as a rally/attack point (which they all do).

Yeah, the Zerg trying to run through a siege breech is in bad shape afterward. How do you think the uncoordinated player who was destroyed because they don't have siege shields, purge, rapid maneuver, and pocket healers fared? I'm totally sure that was a pleasant experience that they just can't wait to hop on their horse and ride back just to repeat.

It isn't rocket science to not stand in red spots, but it's obviously not as easy as you and others are making it out to be: especially when you set up siege that are soon covered in red zones, which means players take a huge amount of damage to even use the "ONE tool" you deem necessary in the first place. This does not even get into places such as the Inner keep that is so small the entire area is covered in overlapping catapult Dots/Debuffs.

Everyone will eventually have to learn to git good, l2p dont be a potaote... but regardles how skilled you are, you just cant get a ball zerg, not every one want or can get into groups or end game raiding... And no matter how good a solo player is, they will be eaten alive by a ball zerg... you know it, i know it, everone know it... So again dont take away a tool that benefits new and solo player the most...

A soloplayer has far easier to get off the spot, and is less likely to have siege piled on them, then a ball zerg... Historically cannons was loaded with buckets of iron scrap and shot right into lines of advancing infatery just to break up formations... To me it feels like it does exactly what it should...

A solo player you can walk around looking for tents to burn, you can try help open a second breach, you can help make sure the breach isnt closed was its opened, keeping damage on it, there is alot of things a solo player can do, you can place balistas to counter fire on the catapults to break them...

PS, they could make them do more damage, it isnt exactly rocket science to understand to NOT stand in the red spot

Miriel · August 2018

YES - More Siege = More Fun

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just like to point out that it's almost possible to blanket both flags with red. I've always been curious for those who say "don't stand in red" how do you prevent flag flips or capture flags?

As an example a few days ago at bleaks, as a defender, the entire front area and back area were red, even halfway up the stairs. There are a few nooks you can hide but once again, to push an attacking force off flag both groups will be "standing in stupid".

I've often assumed those that say don't stand in red (in PvP) aren't actually the ones attempting to flip or defend a flag, but waiting to collect the tick your alliance members gifted you.

Sidenote, fighting for the flag is usually really intense and awesome. Get out of the back or off the top, try it some time.

Yes, and you can also, place counter siege to attack things in keep, to make it hard to defend or deny them the ability to use siege... Just having the biggest zerg ball shouldent be a solotion to everything...

frozywozy · August 2018

Miriel wrote: »

Everyone will eventually have to learn to git good, l2p dont be a potaote... but regardles how skilled you are, you just cant get a ball zerg, not every one want or can get into groups or end game raiding... And no matter how good a solo player is, they will be eaten alive by a ball zerg... you know it, i know it, everone know it... So again dont take away a tool that benefits new and solo player the most...

Kartalin · August 2018

NO - More Siege = Less Fun

That time I meteored @frozywozy at an inner breach because he was being a tanky pain in the rear and our group needed to get moving and he whispered me “good duel”