ESO: state of the game as of Summerset "expansion"

Vahrokh · August 2018

The classes uniqueness destruction is in full effect.
The "play as you want" main TES tenet has gone.

Classes have been pointlessy flattened and homologated, signature skills mercilessly nerfed and destroyed.

One and only class is above all, Nightblades, both in PvE and PvP. They do 50k self buffed DPS or 70k trial DPS but also excel at PvP.
One and only class (see video) that reliably see 7 of them as DPS in competitive teams, a random (often it's magsorc) only taken for buffs.
The one and only class I consitently get asked to reroll to, when I apply to a new progression guild. Despite I don't play mag warden DPS.

One and only one class stuck at competitive healing and caged into that: Templar.
One and only one class stuck at competitive tanking: DK.

Basically, few years of a certain game designer have completely destroyed ESO in its very foundations.

What we have as of today is a glorified Garments Store and total, flat, homologated gameplay.

I was here in 2014, during closed beta. With all the issues early ESO had, it was superior to what we have got today in so many ways, beginning with the good (and with good server performance) PvP we had back then. It had got its fair share of issues but it was as close to TES tenets as possible and I really enjoyed seeing NB and Templar main tanks, DK healers and so on.
Now it's all over. Gone.

Please ZOS do something about this. I hate playing a NB, why are you pushing all of us into that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr9920BPCpg

VaranisArano · August 2018

Just a reminder that "Play the way you like" doesn't mean what most people think it means.

Ad:

83b24456-b4c2-4b5f-8563-1a2beed15f8a_1.fcf893d91762b45fda3541e3bc127ee7.jpeg

Moreover, the current homogeneity of classes so that every class can fill every role in their own way and be moderately effective at everything is closer to The Elder Scrolls style of gameplay from the previous,single player games than the more rigidly defined class/role combos we started out with.

barbarian340 · August 2018

he is right for the most part...

MakeMeUhSamich · August 2018

#BuffSorcs

Vahrokh · August 2018

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

#BuffSorcs

No, sorcs are fine. Mag wardens need a PvE buff. NBs a nerf. And so on.

paulychan · August 2018

Buff magblade

Vahrokh · August 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Just a reminder that "Play the way you like" doesn't mean what most people think it means.

Ad:

Moreover, the current homogeneity of classes so that every class can fill every role in their own way and be moderately effective at everything is closer to The Elder Scrolls style of gameplay from the previous,single player games than the more rigidly defined class/role combos we started out with.

What kind of "rigidly defined class/role combos" did we have?

I was there to see every class do EVERY role. Even sorcs main tanking trials, NBs healing and tanking, DK healing and so on.

Now it's NOT like this any more. What we lacked was a full stamina gameplay. All it should have been done would be to have added stamina abilities and keep the rest as is.

Valrien · August 2018

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

#BuffSorcs

Buff Sorcs in PvP after next update's nerf, yeah.

For PvE all they really need is sustain, and a spammable that works with their passives like literally every other class.

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2018

Maybe they just meant dress the way you want.

DirkRavenclaw · August 2018

Dont buff anything. I dont like this permanent buff this and buff that because with you call to buff a class, you call for ZOS to stop players from playing there class as they like

Edziu · August 2018

for what you want buffs nerfs? its no need until ZOS will rollback/fix their combat (gameplay?)
its really so sad how even just on every different class everyone is using same skills, even with using skills there is no difference on which class, it can be just different colours

every stam dps have:
- endless hail
- poison inject
- deadly cloak
- rearming trap
- caltrops
- 1 or 2 class dots (so only difference here between skills are class colours like nb have red, sorc blue, templar yellow etc)
- optional rending slashes
- optional spammable/heavy attacks while class spammable have only nb and templar, rest 3 classes have same spammable from weapon

similiar with mag builds:
- ele wall
- class #1 ground aoe dot
- class #2 ground aoe dot
- class dot #1
- class dot #2
- etc
- etc
- barely any spammable outside nb with the best sustain to not spam heavy attacks 24/7

in mag build difference betwen their ground skill and their dots is only in colours like I mendioned it with class dots at stam build

this is really sad as every class have no difference from other but only in skills colours and in mag builds its some difference between look of their skills but what about stam? every is looking same, if you dont have class icon at those stam players you will be never sure which class it is because every is looking same and using literally same skills

and also will mention here nerf to nb funnel health forcing more to use force pulse for dps - again difference between classes are fading because class skills are nerfed to not have an advantage at aonther class so ZOS is comming to force every class using same weapon skill because "uniquess" of class skill is to "OP"

and how about game combat mechanics in pve?
most of content is forcing to play on range so at once it really discrimine stamina players as range stam builds are just really crap while most mag builds are on range or are more viable to be on range than stamina so game is forcing you to go play on magica or go out from here if you dont want to struggle much more than on magica build

Vahrokh · August 2018

Edziu wrote: »

for what you want buffs nerfs? its no need until ZOS will rollback/fix their combat (gameplay?)
its really so sad how even just on every different class everyone is using same skills, even with using skills there is no difference on which class, it can be just different colours

every stam dps have:
- endless hail
- poison inject
- deadly cloak
- rearming trap
- caltrops
- 1 or 2 class dots (so only difference here between skills are class colours like nb have red, sorc blue, templar yellow etc)
- optional rending slashes
- optional spammable/heavy attacks while class spammable have only nb and templar, rest 3 classes have same spammable from weapon

similiar with mag builds:
- ele wall
- class #1 ground aoe dot
- class #2 ground aoe dot
- class dot #1
- class dot #2
- etc
- etc
- barely any spammable outside nb with the best sustain to not spam heavy attacks 24/7

in mag build difference betwen their ground skill and their dots is only in colours like I mendioned it with class dots at stam build

this is really sad as every class have no difference from other but only in skills colours and in mag builds its some difference between look of their skills but what about stam? every is looking same, if you dont have class icon at those stam players you will be never sure which class it is because every is looking same and using literally same skills

and also will mention here nerf to nb funnel health forcing more to use force pulse for dps - again difference between classes are fading because class skills are nerfed to not have an advantage at aonther class so ZOS is comming to force every class using same weapon skill because "uniquess" of class skill is to "OP"

and how about game combat mechanics in pve?
most of content is forcing to play on range so at once it really discrimine stamina players as range stam builds are just really crap while most mag builds are on range or are more viable to be on range than stamina so game is forcing you to go play on magica or go out from here if you dont want to struggle much more than on magica build

That's could easily be the 2nd part of my post

Edziu · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

for what you want buffs nerfs? its no need until ZOS will rollback/fix their combat (gameplay?)
its really so sad how even just on every different class everyone is using same skills, even with using skills there is no difference on which class, it can be just different colours

every stam dps have:
- endless hail
- poison inject
- deadly cloak
- rearming trap
- caltrops
- 1 or 2 class dots (so only difference here between skills are class colours like nb have red, sorc blue, templar yellow etc)
- optional rending slashes
- optional spammable/heavy attacks while class spammable have only nb and templar, rest 3 classes have same spammable from weapon

similiar with mag builds:
- ele wall
- class #1 ground aoe dot
- class #2 ground aoe dot
- class dot #1
- class dot #2
- etc
- etc
- barely any spammable outside nb with the best sustain to not spam heavy attacks 24/7

in mag build difference betwen their ground skill and their dots is only in colours like I mendioned it with class dots at stam build

this is really sad as every class have no difference from other but only in skills colours and in mag builds its some difference between look of their skills but what about stam? every is looking same, if you dont have class icon at those stam players you will be never sure which class it is because every is looking same and using literally same skills

and also will mention here nerf to nb funnel health forcing more to use force pulse for dps - again difference between classes are fading because class skills are nerfed to not have an advantage at aonther class so ZOS is comming to force every class using same weapon skill because "uniquess" of class skill is to "OP"

and how about game combat mechanics in pve?
most of content is forcing to play on range so at once it really discrimine stamina players as range stam builds are just really crap while most mag builds are on range or are more viable to be on range than stamina so game is forcing you to go play on magica or go out from here if you dont want to struggle much more than on magica build

That's could easily be the 2nd part of my post

yea heheh :P

Im with you and also playing...played since 2014 in ESO and uhh...even cant remember where started those bad changes just to uniquess of classes...slowly deleting this uniquness
it started with morrowind or homestead? even cant remember when that bad changes started to pigeonhold classes more and more while killing their uniqueness

but ofc diehard ZOS defenders whiel always say ZOS is doing good without remember or even know how many famous ESO players just stopped with ESO after these changes and ZOS is still blind to this because things like crown store and weak dlc's are shining more than stable good and loyal players

Peekachu99 · August 2018

It really is a chore to log in these days and there seems to be nothing on the horizon to shake things up.

logarifmik · August 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Maybe they just meant dress the way you want.

Yeah, you can dress anything you like... after paying an inadequately big amount of crowns.

Onebitsoul · August 2018

Did it actually take you people over four years to realize that PvE is and will always be boring with every DD being the same, every tank being the same and every healer being the same? PvP is the true endgame.

shaielzafine · August 2018

Onebitsoul wrote: »

Did it actually take you people over four years to realize that PvE is and will always be boring with every DD being the same, every tank being the same and every healer being the same? PvP is the true endgame.

Yes, I agree with you guys. After learning mechanics for pve fights and doing hard modes there's nothing new to the fights. Tbh it's quite boring going around in circles in vet cloudrest or back & forth in AS kiting things in a tiny little arena. As opposed to the craglorn / maw / hof design where you go through the map and on some bosses like twins there's actual mechanics not just "let's have them fight all the bosses at once, that's great game design". I think vAS and vCR in particular are pretty bad compared to the other trials in that you have a big advantage bringing in a team of mag nightblades as opposed to the other trials. You know something's borked when raid leads are specifically asking for magic toons (preferred nb) to dps. If I bring a stamplar people would just be rezzing me over and over again as opposed to magnb that can shield, funnel health heal, and safely damage from range.

PvP like you said, is the true end game. However most pve'ers hate it. I can see why, it's always loading screens & a lot more lag when the zerg comes to a keep. But it's endlessly repeatable even if you fight the same person in the same location in a map. It's too bad that pvp is barely playable with the server /game performance, and like the OP said, class balance doesn't exist. Proc set meta is also ruining this game. Proc sets give you wins because when it lags out or you get sprint bug & can't cast any abilities, your proc sets can still proc (like sloads or skoria killing people while i'm dead, or zaan going off finishing the kill while I'm rubberbanding thanks to a meteor ulti dumped on me) . They think it's fun gameplay to die to sets proccing as people spam snipe or rune cage, that's why it's designed that way. If they ever fix combat design, server lag and game performance I'm pretty sure a couple of my guildies would resub & come back to this game. I wouldn't be logged off playing other pvp games with them.

Darkenarlol · August 2018

"Play as you want" never was and never would be equal to

"be number one in leaderboards competitive with whatever your snowflakeness calles a build"

- if you want to play your favorite mega-unique build - go do it

- if you want to play your favorite class - go ahead

- if you want to join meta and play endgame competitive leaderboar race - you are welcome

pick one and don't be greedy and childish lol

shaielzafine · August 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

"Play as you want" never was and never would be equal to

"be number one in leaderboards competitive with whatever your snowflakeness calles a build"

- if you want to play your favorite mega-unique build - go do it

- if you want to play your favorite class - go ahead

- if you want to join meta and play endgame competitive leaderboar race - you are welcome

pick one and don't be greedy and childish lol

"play as you want" as in complete content for achievements in eso doing whatever build you want - you literally cannot do that. you could not complete hard mode runs of certain trials with a mishmash of builds / non optimized / multiple pve overland builds in group. that's not being childish, their point was why do we have to bring specific classes in to be able to just COMPLETE specific content (ex. Gryphon Heart achievement - you need magnb dps, dk tanks)

DanteYoda · August 2018

Yes play the way you want, but it will be bad if you do... Cookie cutter online..

Meta ruins everything...

Vahrokh · August 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

for what you want buffs nerfs? its no need until ZOS will rollback/fix their combat (gameplay?)
its really so sad how even just on every different class everyone is using same skills, even with using skills there is no difference on which class, it can be just different colours

every stam dps have:
- endless hail
- poison inject
- deadly cloak
- rearming trap
- caltrops
- 1 or 2 class dots (so only difference here between skills are class colours like nb have red, sorc blue, templar yellow etc)
- optional rending slashes
- optional spammable/heavy attacks while class spammable have only nb and templar, rest 3 classes have same spammable from weapon

similiar with mag builds:
- ele wall
- class #1 ground aoe dot
- class #2 ground aoe dot
- class dot #1
- class dot #2
- etc
- etc
- barely any spammable outside nb with the best sustain to not spam heavy attacks 24/7

in mag build difference betwen their ground skill and their dots is only in colours like I mendioned it with class dots at stam build

this is really sad as every class have no difference from other but only in skills colours and in mag builds its some difference between look of their skills but what about stam? every is looking same, if you dont have class icon at those stam players you will be never sure which class it is because every is looking same and using literally same skills

and also will mention here nerf to nb funnel health forcing more to use force pulse for dps - again difference between classes are fading because class skills are nerfed to not have an advantage at aonther class so ZOS is comming to force every class using same weapon skill because "uniquess" of class skill is to "OP"

and how about game combat mechanics in pve?
most of content is forcing to play on range so at once it really discrimine stamina players as range stam builds are just really crap while most mag builds are on range or are more viable to be on range than stamina so game is forcing you to go play on magica or go out from here if you dont want to struggle much more than on magica build

That's could easily be the 2nd part of my post

yea heheh :P

Im with you and also playing...played since 2014 in ESO and uhh...even cant remember where started those bad changes just to uniquess of classes...slowly deleting this uniquness
it started with morrowind or homestead? even cant remember when that bad changes started to pigeonhold classes more and more while killing their uniqueness

but ofc diehard ZOS defenders whiel always say ZOS is doing good without remember or even know how many famous ESO players just stopped with ESO after these changes and ZOS is still blind to this because things like crown store and weak dlc's are shining more than stable good and loyal players

It started when the original game designer left and the current one took his place. The current one has a totally flat, WoW-ish idea of what a MMO should be and completely ruined the unique flavour of the game in its foundations.

Vahrokh · August 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

"Play as you want" never was and never would be equal to

"be number one in leaderboards competitive with whatever your snowflakeness calles a build"

- if you want to play your favorite mega-unique build - go do it

- if you want to play your favorite class - go ahead

- if you want to join meta and play endgame competitive leaderboar race - you are welcome

pick one and don't be greedy and childish lol

Others have replied to you already. I'll add this:

back when ESO was good, you could make to the leaderboards with a NB tank and DK healers or some other "non mainstream" setup. I do trials since they exist (see "veteran level 12" in the screenshot), I was there to make to the leaderboards with those varied groups.

Because you really could play as you wanted.
Because a TES game was still a TES game and not a Elder Store Online with WoW gameplay.

DarcyMardin · August 2018

I agree with the OP. I’ve also been here since closed beta. It’s gotta so bad that I’ve begun to dread reading patch notes for updates since they almost always nerf some useful skill(s), sets and/or playstyle into oblivion.

Brabisoid · August 2018

shaielzafine wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

"Play as you want" never was and never would be equal to

"be number one in leaderboards competitive with whatever your snowflakeness calles a build"

- if you want to play your favorite mega-unique build - go do it

- if you want to play your favorite class - go ahead

- if you want to join meta and play endgame competitive leaderboar race - you are welcome

pick one and don't be greedy and childish lol

"play as you want" as in complete content for achievements in eso doing whatever build you want - you literally cannot do that. you could not complete hard mode runs of certain trials with a mishmash of builds / non optimized / multiple pve overland builds in group. that's not being childish, their point was why do we have to bring specific classes in to be able to just COMPLETE specific content (ex. Gryphon Heart achievement - you need magnb dps, dk tanks)

This not true at all. You only need magnbs as dps and dk tanks if you are aiming for the highest score in vCR. If you just want to get gryphon heart u can do it with anything u want. Will your group dps be lower? Sure. Will the fight last longer? Sure. Would you need to play much more mechanics then meta group? Certainly. But can it actually be done? Yes it can, it just requires you to come up with your own tactics and builds tailored to the task at hand.

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

Summerset came out with the promise of improving diversity and class balance, and all it really did was empower the nightblade/magsorc meta we were so desperately trying to escape from. So I agree. Unless that one person gets replaced, this game will keep getting worse in diversity.

Its very childish for a developer to have a bias towards certain playstyles.

Guppet · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

The classes uniqueness destruction is in full effect.
The "play as you want" main TES tenet has gone.

Classes have been pointlessy flattened and homologated, signature skills mercilessly nerfed and destroyed.

One and only class is above all, Nightblades, both in PvE and PvP. They do 50k self buffed DPS or 70k trial DPS but also excel at PvP.
One and only class (see video) that reliably see 7 of them as DPS in competitive teams, a random (often it's magsorc) only taken for buffs.
The one and only class I consitently get asked to reroll to, when I apply to a new progression guild. Despite I don't play mag warden DPS.

One and only one class stuck at competitive healing and caged into that: Templar.
One and only one class stuck at competitive tanking: DK.

Basically, few years of a certain game designer have completely destroyed ESO in its very foundations.

What we have as of today is a glorified Garments Store and total, flat, homologated gameplay.

I was here in 2014, during closed beta. With all the issues early ESO had, it was superior to what we have got today in so many ways, beginning with the good (and with good server performance) PvP we had back then. It had got its fair share of issues but it was as close to TES tenets as possible and I really enjoyed seeing NB and Templar main tanks, DK healers and so on.
Now it's all over. Gone.

Please ZOS do something about this. I hate playing a NB, why are you pushing all of us into that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr9920BPCpg

The op is very confusing.

You say all classes are homogenised then go on to say only one class can heal only one can tank only one is used for DPS.

If they were homogenised this would not be the case.

Are you saying they are not homogenised enough?

Dracane · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Just a reminder that "Play the way you like" doesn't mean what most people think it means.

Ad:

Moreover, the current homogeneity of classes so that every class can fill every role in their own way and be moderately effective at everything is closer to The Elder Scrolls style of gameplay from the previous,single player games than the more rigidly defined class/role combos we started out with.

What kind of "rigidly defined class/role combos" did we have?

I was there to see every class do EVERY role. Even sorcs main tanking trials, NBs healing and tanking, DK healing and so on.

Now it's NOT like this any more. What we lacked was a full stamina gameplay. All it should have been done would be to have added stamina abilities and keep the rest as is.

This must be a case of Mandela effect or something. Because I was there too and the scenario you explain, was not the case.
Back then, only templars could heal, only DKs could really tank and Sorc and Nightblade were basically not good at anything, as DK and Templar had all the potential.

Today however, everyone can really do everything. Everyone can support, because we all can now restore stamina to our allies, we all can chain enemies with silver leash and everyone can heal nicely. And dps was mostly balanced before nightblade got so out of hand.

SickDuck · August 2018

I think at some point someone got the memo wrong and now we are moving towards a “pay as you want” game.

Gnortranermara · August 2018

Who needs classes anymore? Just play Classless and free yourself from the developer's whims.

MaleAmazon · August 2018

Here´s the thing: you cannot have balance from the 'elitist min-maxer' perspective. It was the same when I played too much Age of Empires 3. Ok sometimes something was way too strong. But other times, any time something was a little better, it was "OMG U cannot lose just autowin no skill required". Then that gets nerfed and something else takes its place, repeat. This

cry -> nerf -> repeat

approach is also destroying the games I loved before. Civilization - don´t build wonders since good wonders are nerfed into the ground. Bland. Constant nerfing just makes more skills and equipment irrelevant and the game more dull. You don´t get rewarded for working out a good setup, you get a nerf. Among other things I´d argue this also affects casuals more, since good players have tons of gold and tempers and can upgrade another set, while the person who spent all they had on a set just to have it nerfed might be frustrated.

I really appreciate that ZoS at least try to take a different approach and try (with varied results) to make more skills relevant, to not force classes into specific roles. With the upcoming templar change I might try templar again since they are more mobile. Good.

To the original point, the TES style is to let you play the way you want, and making all classes able to fulfil all roles follows that.

Also, stuff like race choices etc not being 'optimal' or whatever is not relevant to 99.9% of players. All my characters except one are Nords, supposedly a tank race, crap race, if you believe the forums. Still, I play medium armor DDs and have done all vet dungeons except fang lair with them.

The OPs point is only true if by 'competitive' you mean "top of trial leaderboard". I for one am glad that ESO keeps being enough of a role-playing game. This, quite frankly, isn´t e-sports.

Lysette · August 2018

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I agree with the OP. I’ve also been here since closed beta. It’s gotta so bad that I’ve begun to dread reading patch notes for updates since they almost always nerf some useful skill(s), set and/or playstyle into oblivion.

But this is what meta-game decisions are causing - if you always go for the best meta-build, there will always be those, complaining about OP builds and then it will be nerfed. The cause of the nerf is not that it would be required, if people would just play as they want as a character - but it comes to be by meta-game optimization, which will in return lead to nerfs.