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Cyro AP/Scoring idea changes for ZoS
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems to be tailored to OPs personal play preferences, most of it would require major rework of Cyrodiil and much added code so I don't think we have to worry about it.
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Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »Seems to be tailored to OPs personal play preferences, most of it would require major rework of Cyrodiil and much added code so I don't think we have to worry about it.
Got me.
Forgot everyone else likes to run stacked like sheep0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Seems to be tailored to OPs personal play preferences, most of it would require major rework of Cyrodiil and much added code so I don't think we have to worry about it.
Got me.
Forgot everyone else likes to run stacked like sheep
No, not everyone like to play superman taking out armies.0 -
ganj1234✭✭✭In order better performance in cyrodil, I suggest capping the amount of players (in a specific faction) who can gain AP/XP from kills, resources, keeps, castles and outposts. To determine who gets the points in a situation where a group has exceeded the limit, you could base it around top damage/healing, who arrived first, or you could even just make it random to further encourage small-scale game play; players would have to sacrifice a guaranteed AP tick if they wanted to engage in a 40 v 40 fight.
I'll just throw these numbers out:
for 1 player, cap it at 4.
For a resource, cap it at 6.
For an outpost, cap it at 12.
For a keep/castle, cap it at 18.
So let's say you still have a group of 24 people (which is a lot), you now have actual incentives to split up and work on siege, resources and scouting. You now have actual incentives to coordinate keep captures.
In addition to this, I suggest implementing some AP/XP variable that increases depending on how outnumbered you are. So say its you and your friend defending bleaker's outpost against 8 people, and somehow you're able to accomplish this. You should receive an additional 1% AP/XP gain (so in this situation 6%) for each player that outnumbers you. If you and a friend were able to fend off 30 opponents from bleaker's (which, as stated previously, would not be in your opponents' best interest), you would receive 28% more AP (the odds of this happening are relatively slim though). Say these 30 players did take the outpost, 18 of them would be SOL in regards to their AP/XP gain. Subsequently, if you and your friend managed to capture an outpost that had 10 players in it, you would be gaining an additional 8% AP.
Now you might say this is a terrible idea because newer players are going to have a harder time.
I would dispute this because the map's population would be more spread out so people would actually LEARN TO PLAY instead of spamming skills and suffering through the proverbial sprint bug and 400+ ping. And.... to be fair...it's pvp in an mmo. You're gonna get your sh*t kicked in, especially at the beginning.
I would say you could leave it to the players in zone chat to call out if they need an additional 5 players to come capture a keep, for example. People already *try* to organize themselves through zone chat, so I feel as though this would only bolster organizational tactics, encourage P R O D U C T I V E communication and small scale fights, as well as discourage faction stacking and zerging down individual players.
This all might be too much for the servers to handle, idk. Curious about what people think of this.✿ @x.Elle_x - PC/NA DC magblade sweat and fashion extraordinaire✿ Guild: Black Fire1 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most of these ideas are meh and over complicated they are all well thought out but still that Dolmen idea was horrible Dolmens should never count toward any scoreXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭. Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!Edited by NBrookus on August 3, 2018 2:20PM0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭In order better performance in cyrodil, I suggest capping the amount of players (in a specific faction) who can gain AP/XP from kills, resources, keeps, castles and outposts. To determine who gets the points in a situation where a group has exceeded the limit, you could base it around top damage/healing, who arrived first, or you could even just make it random to further encourage small-scale game play; players would have to sacrifice a guaranteed AP tick if they wanted to engage in a 40 v 40 fight.
I'll just throw these numbers out:
for 1 player, cap it at 4.
For a resource, cap it at 6.
For an outpost, cap it at 12.
For a keep/castle, cap it at 18.
So let's say you still have a group of 24 people (which is a lot), you now have actual incentives to split up and work on siege, resources and scouting. You now have actual incentives to coordinate keep captures.
In addition to this, I suggest implementing some AP/XP variable that increases depending on how outnumbered you are. So say its you and your friend defending bleaker's outpost against 8 people, and somehow you're able to accomplish this. You should receive an additional 1% AP/XP gain (so in this situation 6%) for each player that outnumbers you. If you and a friend were able to fend off 30 opponents from bleaker's (which, as stated previously, would not be in your opponents' best interest), you would receive 28% more AP (the odds of this happening are relatively slim though). Say these 30 players did take the outpost, 18 of them would be SOL in regards to their AP/XP gain. Subsequently, if you and your friend managed to capture an outpost that had 10 players in it, you would be gaining an additional 8% AP.
Now you might say this is a terrible idea because newer players are going to have a harder time.
I would dispute this because the map's population would be more spread out so people would actually LEARN TO PLAY instead of spamming skills and suffering through the proverbial sprint bug and 400+ ping. And.... to be fair...it's pvp in an mmo. You're gonna get your sh*t kicked in, especially at the beginning.
I would say you could leave it to the players in zone chat to call out if they need an additional 5 players to come capture a keep, for example. People already *try* to organize themselves through zone chat, so I feel as though this would only bolster organizational tactics, encourage P R O D U C T I V E communication and small scale fights, as well as discourage faction stacking and zerging down individual players.
This all might be too much for the servers to handle, idk. Curious about what people think of this.
I like these ideas and I do wish guilds would run various groups coordinating takes/fakes/flanks via comms. Resulting in tactics encouraging a spread out player base.
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Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
Then you clearly aren’t solo.
Just because you aren’t in a group when you kill 3 people with 24 others doesn’t mean you 1v3’d.
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White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!
What because some one turned up at a place before the group they are zerg surfers , lol0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!
What because some one turned up at a place before the group they are zerg surfers , lol
Remove yourself from the faction that just showed up then.
That’s what we are trying to encourage through our ideas.
People should spread out to capture different objectives causing dozens of fights around the map in different locations rather than 3 stacked locations on the map. Generating around the gates/bridge.
What can wabbit do:
. Wabbit is at chal alone killing guards on front door, hoping pact warriors come out to face him. All of a sudden the dc zerg arrives after a victorious battle at bleaks.
1. Wabbit heads to sej to fight both ad and ep.
2. Wabbit was here first and is still solo. “Oh well I’ll just take this keep.”
By all means if you want to support your alliance and push objectives with the main force go ahead and do so. I’m, along with many others, hoping that at some point game mechanics would encourage or enforce players to have to spread out to some degree for better ap, tactics, fights, valuable objectives. Rather than back and forth 40v40 between nikel and ash for 3 hours.. not only is that game play downplaying the combat system but it bypasses player interaction for mindless spamming.
Just imagine splitting that 40 man into 4 groups and having a team at brindle/fare/sej/chal
Facing something similar in size and finding these fights all over the map.
The game would feel more alive.
As it is now you can run around the entire map and not see a single soul save for 1-3 locations.Edited by Irylia on August 3, 2018 2:54PM1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!
What because some one turned up at a place before the group they are zerg surfers , lol
Remove yourself from the faction that just showed up then.
That’s what we are trying to encourage through our ideas.
People should spread out to capture different objectives causing dozens of fights around the map in different locations rather than 3 stacked locations on the map. Generating around the gates/bridge.
What can wabbit do:
. Wabbit is at chal alone killing guards on front door, hoping pact warriors come out to face him. All of a sudden the dc zerg arrives after a victorious battle at bleaks.
1. Wabbit heads to sej to fight both ad and ep.
2. Wabbit was here first and is still solo. “Oh well I’ll just take this keep.”
Hard to remove my self from the faction I only have Dc toons , if you want people to speed our then take Emp away as this causes people to be bunched up around all those keeps0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!
What because some one turned up at a place before the group they are zerg surfers , lol
Remove yourself from the faction that just showed up then.
That’s what we are trying to encourage through our ideas.
People should spread out to capture different objectives causing dozens of fights around the map in different locations rather than 3 stacked locations on the map. Generating around the gates/bridge.
What can wabbit do:
. Wabbit is at chal alone killing guards on front door, hoping pact warriors come out to face him. All of a sudden the dc zerg arrives after a victorious battle at bleaks.
1. Wabbit heads to sej to fight both ad and ep.
2. Wabbit was here first and is still solo. “Oh well I’ll just take this keep.”
Hard to remove my self from the faction I only have Dc toons , if you want people to speed our then take Emp away as this causes people to be bunched up around all those keeps
Remove yourself by heading somewhere with less of your faction.
They all at chal? Go to alessia and capture a resource or fight ad on the bridge to delay their movements.
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White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »White wabbit wrote: ». Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
So anyone that happens to be running solo near this group would then suffer?
That's not solo, that's zerg surfing. Tagging along with a larger group -- whether officially grouped or just a lot of pugs in the area -- is much safer than actually playing solo, yet you get the same rewards.
There's no mechanism right now for rewarding people for venturing away from the main body of your faction, and there should be.
P.S. Necro'd!
What because some one turned up at a place before the group they are zerg surfers , lol
Remove yourself from the faction that just showed up then.
That’s what we are trying to encourage through our ideas.
People should spread out to capture different objectives causing dozens of fights around the map in different locations rather than 3 stacked locations on the map. Generating around the gates/bridge.
What can wabbit do:
. Wabbit is at chal alone killing guards on front door, hoping pact warriors come out to face him. All of a sudden the dc zerg arrives after a victorious battle at bleaks.
1. Wabbit heads to sej to fight both ad and ep.
2. Wabbit was here first and is still solo. “Oh well I’ll just take this keep.”
Hard to remove my self from the faction I only have Dc toons , if you want people to speed our then take Emp away as this causes people to be bunched up around all those keeps
Remove yourself by heading somewhere with less of your faction.
They all at chal? Go to alessia and capture a resource or fight ad on the bridge to delay their movements.
So now I'm getting punished because of my faction hmm0 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think any changes to mechanics at this point should be put on hold. Simply because siege is being tweaked atm and there is no sense in compounding issues. I do think changes to scoring and overall map dynamics should be quickly addressed. There needs to be better incentives for spreading out and not stacking. Population balance is probably the most critical issue this game faces right now.
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ganj1234✭✭✭I'm not gonna pretend like I don't surf the zerg and help players while they try to cap objectives. It's easy because I know exactly where the action will be, and I know I'll be getting AP gains. It turns into riding simulator if you're running around the map looking for fights outside the big contested areas. If the map was more spread out, people would, by default, forgo the zerg surfing because they have more options of where to go. Your chances of running into other solo players and small groups would increase as well.✿ @x.Elle_x - PC/NA DC magblade sweat and fashion extraordinaire✿ Guild: Black Fire0
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Zelos✭✭✭✭✭PvP~~
Rewards:
1.Geodes - the current geode system should be left as is because it promotes players to pvp even if they are pve or casual. What could use a change so that these masses don’t just ball zerg objectives for their rewards, is ap needs to be distributed differently.
Scoring + AP
1. Resources on home keeps should be worth double their current take value while emp resources are halved from their current amount.
2. Emp keeps should also be halved to 3k Ap base, as the emp ring already provides the benefit of potential emperor, port distance and conquest positioning.
3. Groups earn less ap for every additional player near them that exceeds the group limit.
Note: This won’t deter groups from clumping on important objective takes but will make it more appealing to players to venture out of the large group in order to earn more ap.
4. Towns are worth more scoring tick points and generate higher ap values for kills made there. (additional towns?)
5. Scrolls Increase scoring on the scrolls so that captures are more sought over and the travel between scroll temple and a keep will generate combat over terrain that is hardly used.
Note: Scrolls are generally ran far away from keeps due to enemy access on easy spawns if the scroll is nearby thus the string of fights to ensue over cyrodiils beautiful environment.
6. AP Buff Make the ap buff last twice as long but worth 15%. Add a minor ap buff that is obtainable through completion of quest boards. Complete 3/4 and you earn the minor buff for 2 hours 10% a total of 25% more value if sought after.
Note: Players traveling to delves will enjoy small clashes away from the beaten path and quests with additional value will not only help your faction but encourage players to take and defend odd resources/keeps away from the main fray.
7. Dolmens drop rate for cold fire is increased and they now appear on the map showing as a grey icon that turns blue, red, yellow when cleared by a faction. (Killing blow on boss) the dolmen rewards a faction with 5 scoring points and spawns every 30
Minutes.
Note: By generating more opportunities to score points for your faction and at a considerable amount they will be huge points of interest across the map every time they spawn, resulting in fights on uncommon terrain.
Result = The geodes are now a prize for earning ap by leaving the ball zerg as zerg surfing for ap won’t be as profitable.
6a. An alternative quest board option
Group based missions that have different specifications. 4,8,12 etc in size that have the group escort a wagon from point A to B. If the wagon detects additional players from your faction past the quest amount then it will be deducted from your reward.
Other quests could be but not limited to:
-Intel gathering
-Capture and defend a spawned flag for x duration (abandoned towers, cheydinhal, outlying towns)
The kicker is that enemy factions can see the accepted quest from other factions and a group of similar size can embark on the quest to prevent the escort from reaching its destination by eliminating all players and the wagon. With potentially 2 factions trying to destroy the escort they will also fight one another, potentially first, so as to eliminate the chance of having someone else take the reward.
*Once fully eliminated your group fails the mission and cannot reap rewards for that quest.
Quest Rewards: (idea)
If you accomplish the quest as the faction who took the initiating quest you gain one of
-guards are stronger/additional to one/two selected keeps for x minutes
-siege is 20% reduced cost for x minutes for your entire faction.
-a keeps walls are stronger and take reduced damage from siege for x minutes
Or
One faction of choice
-weaker/less guards in a keep for x min
-siege costs 20% more for x min
-walls weaker on a keep for x min
*Also gain a chunk of ap for completing the quest*
A group from the faction that chose to intercept or stop the initiator has the ability to
-guards are stronger/additional to one/two selected keeps for x minutes
-siege is 20% reduced cost for x minutes for your entire faction.
-a keeps walls are stronger and take reduced damage from siege for x minutes
Campaign:
Lower vivec pop cap by 15% and then make shor a 30 day campaign.
Note: Players have shown a consistent draw to the longer campaign because it allows them to feel as if their contribution has more weight in a large scale war. The population spread along with ap changes will distribute players across the map in a healthier way.
AOE CAPS + Sets/Skills~~
The change to aoe caps is amazing but the damage that destro ults have when paired with moving sleet storms and vd/proxy will be enormous. But not in a positive way.
In order to combat this I’m suggesting a modification to destro ult in either damage or function.
Change:
1. Make the eots do another 10% less base while buffing the stationary destro by 10%. This generates a risk and reward. Ults that are stationary provide the most value when executed properly but can be easily countered by negates or moving out of them. This will encourage strategic play when it comes to dropping timed ults. As opposed to casting eots and running around for maximum damage. Especially with eots lack of counters.
2. The other option for a change to destro ult is by making it more tool based for a variety of mag ults
Inferno: lobs a ball of fire at a single target. Can be blocked but not dodged. Inflicts a burn that enraged the caster and increases their damage by 8% (minor beserk)
Ice: slam your staff into the ground sending out ice shards in a 10m aoe radius. Each shard that hits the same target deals 75/50/25% less damage than the first. Each shard roots the target. (Ic ice atro) this can be used in small scale control as well as large group play on chokes to enable ults like shackle/nova/bats.
Lightning: a conal magicka db that shocks the enemies hit for damage and stuns them
3. As a way to make either change more meaningful earthgore needs to see a minor tweak. Earthgore should be a way to heal but not remove ground effects upon activation. Negate already has an important role and should remain that way for countering player ults with active gameplay.
4. Vd/proxy
Vd base damage nerfed by 10% and radius increased by 2m
Proxy starts to increase in damage value after 6 enemies. Dealing subsequently more at 7/8/9/10 etc.
Recap]: As aoe caps are now removed I do believe it is a great thing but that if these ults and tools are too strong it will still encourage players to stack for the benefit of sets/heals/barriers/earthgore. As all of these tools are just as frightening to smaller numbers with the exception that large groups can apply more pressure to whatever is trying to kill them with vd proxy destro ult.
[/b]Outfit and guild tabard[/b]
Provide an option for players to turn guild tabard on/off as visible so that they can wear it over the outfit and or gear without it showing visibly.
Cp needs to stop increasing as it just increases everyone’s ability to spec for things their build doesn’t have as well as adding numerous calculations the server must make while in cyrodiil.
Befoul should be removed as well as healing received cp. This lowers the calculations necessary and provides some counterplay to strong defile/healing without using defile as the main counter to heals when it gimps classes without strong heals in the first place.
Thank you,
Irylia
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Definitely some good changes, now we got to wait around a year or 2 to get 1 of them into cyrodiil if we are lucky.Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think any changes to mechanics at this point should be put on hold. Simply because siege is being tweaked atm and there is no sense in compounding issues. I do think changes to scoring and overall map dynamics should be quickly addressed. There needs to be better incentives for spreading out and not stacking. Population balance is probably the most critical issue this game faces right now.
In its current state siege hurts small groups just as much if not more because of the lack of numbers for excess healing to counter stacks of meat bag scatter shots.
These siege are huge area denial spreads and now more than ever people are just sieging because it’s far more effective than getting off your wall and fighting back the intruders.
Siege should scale like proxy det and hurt more for hitting stacked players. With no ground dot but just the initial hit.0