Werewolf Heals.
OneKhajiitCrimeWave
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So in this PTS cycle they changed the Werewolf heal to scale off of max health rather than spell damage (the main reason Werewolves were running Pelinals on current live servers)
I wanted to ask any that have tested the new WW heals out in Cyrodiil/BG's, how well does the healing scale?
Is it a generous scaling or is it like Polar winds where you need a high amount of health to make it worthwhile?
I wanted to ask any that have tested the new WW heals out in Cyrodiil/BG's, how well does the healing scale?
Is it a generous scaling or is it like Polar winds where you need a high amount of health to make it worthwhile?
Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!
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Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Is it a generous scaling or is it like Polar winds where you need a high amount of health to be emperor, in the imperial city while wearing imperial physique and plague doctor to make it worthwhile?
Edited by Amdar_Godkiller on August 1, 2018 7:44AM2 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Is it a generous scaling or is it like Polar winds where you need a high amount of health to be emperor, in the imperial city while wearing imperial physique and plague doctorto make it worthwhile?
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Lol thanks for the fix. Same question just with the above fix
Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Is it a generous scaling or is it like Polar winds where you need a high amount of health to be emperor, in the imperial city while wearing imperial physique and plague doctorto make it worthwhile?
[
Lol thanks for the fix. Same question just with the above fix
As a Pelinal's WereWarden on console, I'd like to know as much as you, brother.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quick test with my (non-pelinal) WW:
live:6500
pts:8500
(edit: this is the weaker heal, which gives major brutality on pts)Edited by Sharee on August 1, 2018 8:01AM0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Quick test with my (non-pelinal) WW:
live:6500
pts:8500
(edit: this is the weaker heal, which gives major brutality on pts)
In Cyrodil?
That's about a 2K Heal nerf for me if so. Not gamebreaking, but it means I'll probably need to drop kena for troll king or chokethorn or some other healing set.0 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm reading it the same way. @Sharee if you wouldn't mind what is your current setup? And what are the current stats you have?Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@OneKhajiitCrimeWave
PTS-slave here
My summarize of werewolfs next patch:
* Max HP is more important than before, assuming you want to get good use of the heal. Reaching 30k+ HP will get you close to what you can get with Pelinial on live. The heal is really good with a proper build (even though I really liked Pelinial builds)
* Magicka recovery is more important: Since you need to be able to sustain your heal
* Damage output and max stamina has gone down: Since you´ve to invest more into max HP and magicka recovery, your other stats will be lower (there´re however workarounds for this).
Together with other changes to werewolfs they´ve gotten a buff for PvP. Basically what happened is that werewolfs have traded damage for survivability in PvP. Small-scale with werewolfs in the group is going to be amazing next patch.
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IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭@Sharee how much health were u running on Pts to get that 8.5k heal?
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks for that @Qbiken . That makes me feel good because i had already had ideas for a non-pelinals build next patch and wanted to make sure it wouldn't end up in a worse spot overall. Just got to wait for console release so i can test it....
(hate that my PC is kaput)
Thanks to @Sharee also for providing some quick raw data.
@Amdar_Godkiller , it looks like we'll be in a good spot overall then with a few tweaks.Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Thanks for that @Qbiken . That makes me feel good because i had already had ideas for a non-pelinals build next patch and wanted to make sure it wouldn't end up in a worse spot overall. Just got to wait for console release so i can test it.... (hate that my PC is kaput)
Thanks to @Sharee also for providing some quick raw data.
@Amdar_Godkiller , it looks like we'll be in a good spot overall then with a few tweaks.
Oh well, if nothing else, at least my gripping shards will be buffed a bit in human form.
Chokethorn, Prisoner's Rags, and Ravager are what I'm thinking of migrating to.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here´s one example of what you can run next patch:
5 Shackle
5 Green Pact
2 Skoria
Serpent Mundus, Ozorgas Smoked Bear Haunch, Continuous + major brutality + berserk are active in picture.
With only major brutality active you drop to around 3,7k weapon damage, 1k magrecovery and 1,8-1,9k stamina recovery.
[img][/img]
Edited by Qbiken on August 1, 2018 8:52AM1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.0
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Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭Just an F.Y.I about hircines bounty and it’s morphs, because it now scales by % value instead of a flat value, Using powered weapons, putting points into blessed, basically, Increasing “Healing Done” will be more beneficial.
One such example, because my weapon “skorias charred claymore” had the powered trait (currently epic quality), I noticed on my dragonknight that green dragon blood restores up to 35% of missing health instead of 33% respectively so really, you folks may want to conduct more tests utilising the blessed champion skill, powered traits and pretty much anything that increases healing done and report the results to the forum. That way we all have something to work with and ponder some new ideas for builds, changes, etc.If you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Just an F.Y.I about hircines bounty and it’s morphs, because it now scales by % value instead of a flat value, Using powered weapons, putting points into blessed, basically, Increasing “Healing Done” will be more beneficial.
One such example, because my weapon “skorias charred claymore” had the powered trait (currently epic quality), I noticed on my dragonknight that green dragon blood restores up to 35% of missing health instead of 33% respectively so really, you folks may want to conduct more tests utilising the blessed champion skill, powered traits and pretty much anything that increases healing done and report the results to the forum. That way we all have something to work with and ponder some new ideas for builds, changes, etc.
Yeah vitality pots will be key for WWs next patch if you can manage to get away from immovables.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
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Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Just an F.Y.I about hircines bounty and it’s morphs, because it now scales by % value instead of a flat value, Using powered weapons, putting points into blessed, basically, Increasing “Healing Done” will be more beneficial.
One such example, because my weapon “skorias charred claymore” had the powered trait (currently epic quality), I noticed on my dragonknight that green dragon blood restores up to 35% of missing health instead of 33% respectively so really, you folks may want to conduct more tests utilising the blessed champion skill, powered traits and pretty much anything that increases healing done and report the results to the forum. That way we all have something to work with and ponder some new ideas for builds, changes, etc.
@Alpha-Lupi
I´ve tried some setups with powered weapons on off-hand, and there is a noticeable difference.
Also did a lot of testing with Blessed and Elfborn on the PTS:
* The heal uses spell-crit to determine how often it will crit (so nothing has really changed here)
* Since the blue tree is also where we put our points to increase our damage, there will be a conflict between damage vs survivability.
* It´s not worth putting more than 32 points into Blessed and don´t bother with Elfborn, it scales horribly. You want at least 30 points into Blessed in order to unlock the "Spell Precision" passive, which gives you another 12% spell-crit. But that´s about it.
I can´t really motivate spending too many points into the Apprentice, simply because Tactician and Exploiter passive are incredibly strong in terms of damage boost.
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.
Only wasted bonus I see with Shacklebreaker next patch is the spell-damage bonus, which we don´t really need anymore. The other stats are meaningful for a werewolf. And while stamina recovery is important, heavy attack on an off-balanced target restores so much stamina (10k+ in No-CP), that you can actually sacrifice some of you base-stamina recovery. A better option than Shacklebreaker would of course be Imperial Physique, but that set has its obvious limits on where we can use it 0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Just an F.Y.I about hircines bounty and it’s morphs, because it now scales by % value instead of a flat value, Using powered weapons, putting points into blessed, basically, Increasing “Healing Done” will be more beneficial.
One such example, because my weapon “skorias charred claymore” had the powered trait (currently epic quality), I noticed on my dragonknight that green dragon blood restores up to 35% of missing health instead of 33% respectively so really, you folks may want to conduct more tests utilising the blessed champion skill, powered traits and pretty much anything that increases healing done and report the results to the forum. That way we all have something to work with and ponder some new ideas for builds, changes, etc.
@Alpha-Lupi
I´ve tried some setups with powered weapons on off-hand, and there is a noticeable difference.
Also did a lot of testing with Blessed and Elfborn on the PTS:
* The heal uses spell-crit to determine how often it will crit (so nothing has really changed here)
* Since the blue tree is also where we put our points to increase our damage, there will be a conflict between damage vs survivability.
* It´s not worth putting more than 32 points into Blessed and don´t bother with Elfborn, it scales horribly. You want at least 30 points into Blessed in order to unlock the "Spell Precision" passive, which gives you another 12% spell-crit. But that´s about it.
I can´t really motivate spending too many points into the Apprentice, simply because Tactician and Exploiter passive are incredibly strong in terms of damage boost.
Mostly agree with this, however on live I will sometimes just roll with 23 in blessed and 7 in elfborn, so I can get 120 CP in both of the other blue CP trees.
Instead of getting 8% bigger heals all the time, this setup gets you 8% bigger heals when they crit and 6% bigger heals when they don't. So it's weaker on average, but not by much and shares the same healing cap.
The other option is going with 27 CP in blessed and 3 cp in spell erosion, which I do on my pelinals warden to increase the damage of gripping shards.
Luckily, next patch I can see myself just going with the 32 CP in Blessed since we'll be up to 780 champion points.1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.
Only wasted bonus I see with Shacklebreaker next patch is the spell-damage bonus, which we don´t really need anymore. The other stats are meaningful for a werewolf. And while stamina recovery is important, heavy attack on an off-balanced target restores so much stamina (10k+ in No-CP), that you can actually sacrifice some of you base-stamina recovery. A better option than Shacklebreaker would of course be Imperial Physique, but that set has its obvious limits on where we can use it
Until I see that heavy attack is reliable for a WW, it's not something I'll be relying on in PVP. Usually it freezes all your attacks in Cyrodil's current state.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.
Only wasted bonus I see with Shacklebreaker next patch is the spell-damage bonus, which we don´t really need anymore. The other stats are meaningful for a werewolf. And while stamina recovery is important, heavy attack on an off-balanced target restores so much stamina (10k+ in No-CP), that you can actually sacrifice some of you base-stamina recovery. A better option than Shacklebreaker would of course be Imperial Physique, but that set has its obvious limits on where we can use it
Oh yes. That's the set.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.
Only wasted bonus I see with Shacklebreaker next patch is the spell-damage bonus, which we don´t really need anymore. The other stats are meaningful for a werewolf. And while stamina recovery is important, heavy attack on an off-balanced target restores so much stamina (10k+ in No-CP), that you can actually sacrifice some of you base-stamina recovery. A better option than Shacklebreaker would of course be Imperial Physique, but that set has its obvious limits on where we can use it
Until I see that heavy attack is reliable for a WW, it's not something I'll be relying on in PVP. Usually it freezes all your attacks in Cyrodil's current state.
Even on PTS with high ping it´s quite reliable now actually. Something I´ve noticed even on live with the heavy attack is:
* If your enemy is within range of your heavy attack when you start "channelling" it and then move out of range, you´ll still get the stamina back. I´ve even got stamina back when some people move through me and ending up behind me. However, if someone dodgeroll out of the range, it won´t hit.
* The opposite can however sometimes be very clunky and un reliable. If someone is out of your heavy attack range when you start the "channelling" and comes within range as you finish the heavy attack, you don´t always hit the target.
But agree that the heavy attack animation and hitbox could use more attention.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mangeli200194 wrote: »@Sharee how much health were u running on Pts to get that 8.5k heal?
About 27.5k0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭What race were you @Sharee?
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mangeli200194 wrote: »What race were you @Sharee?
That one was with an orc, 5H/1/1 shacklebreaker/salvation/troll king, all tristat enchants (even jewelry), with i think dubious, but im not sure about the last one.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Mangeli200194 wrote: »@Sharee how much health were u running on Pts to get that 8.5k heal?
About 27.5k
That's exactly where I am currently sitting on live.Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I don't like Shacklebreaker. It's not enough sustain IMO. Prisoner's Rags + Dubious gives you 2K stam recovery while stationery and 2K mag recovery while sprinting, so I think it's still de facto BiS for WW sustain sets. I'm at 28K health in medium armor now, so I think that ravager should put me past 30K by itself. Skoria might be an option though, if I find the heal sufficient.
Prisoner is a good option, but there will be certain situations where you are in great need of magicka and can´t afford to sprint or when running/kiting isn´t an option. Sure you can use Prisoner or even Desert Rose (which is another great set for next patch) but personally I like to run with a bit higher base-magicka recovery so I don´t have to rely on procs (Prisoner is kinda like a proc^^) to sustain. But each to their own
Desert Rose is another option I"ve been looking at. Shacklebreaker though seems worse than even staying with pelinals, since it also gives you max health, along with as much stam and mag recovery. Granted the 5 piece would be meaningless, but in terms of damage, the 5 piece for shacklebreaker is only a damage increase of about 4 percent anyway, so not really a strong option.
Only wasted bonus I see with Shacklebreaker next patch is the spell-damage bonus, which we don´t really need anymore. The other stats are meaningful for a werewolf. And while stamina recovery is important, heavy attack on an off-balanced target restores so much stamina (10k+ in No-CP), that you can actually sacrifice some of you base-stamina recovery. A better option than Shacklebreaker would of course be Imperial Physique, but that set has its obvious limits on where we can use it
Until I see that heavy attack is reliable for a WW, it's not something I'll be relying on in PVP. Usually it freezes all your attacks in Cyrodil's current state.
Even on PTS with high ping it´s quite reliable now actually. Something I´ve noticed even on live with the heavy attack is:
* If your enemy is within range of your heavy attack when you start "channelling" it and then move out of range, you´ll still get the stamina back. I´ve even got stamina back when some people move through me and ending up behind me. However, if someone dodgeroll out of the range, it won´t hit.
* The opposite can however sometimes be very clunky and un reliable. If someone is out of your heavy attack range when you start the "channelling" and comes within range as you finish the heavy attack, you don´t always hit the target.
But agree that the heavy attack animation and hitbox could use more attention.
I'm glad it's gotten some love. Honestly I'm leveling a second wolf during this festival, and I haven't even invested the skill points in the heavy attack return yet because its so hit-or-miss.
It's especially frustrating since it's so easy to set people off balance as a WW. lol0