Max CP players "ruin" content for advancing players

yiasemi · July 2018

Now I know why I am still in the 500s. The joy reeking through these posts tells me it's time for another visit to Mannimarco's Magic Dagger.

Noobs were quizzical, studied online
Builds in the home
Late nights all alone with a PVE ohh oh oh oh
Maxwell TankHammer majoring in magtemplar
Calls ImmortalCX on guild chat
Can I take you out to the vet dungeon, ICX?
But as he's getting ready to go
A knock comes on the door

Bang, bang, Mannimarco's Magic Dagger
Came down upon his head
Bang, bang, Mannimarco's Magic Dagger
Made sure that he was starting another alt.

JasmineMcCoy · July 2018

I don't see why 30-35% is considered bad. Tank and healer often dps as well, when they can afford it, so if you are getting close to 50% you are the one overgeared compared to the rest.

Zardayne · July 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

All content scales to a specific difficulty level that everyone can then advance past. If it was different then it would be too high a barrier to entry.

Anyway, you're just e-peen measuring here with your dps numbers against theirs. There aren't any rewards for doing more dps than another player.

All that really matters is winning in the content, the faster the better. So why are you complaining about having an easier time?

I'd agree with most of this. Just go in and do your best and learn. As long as your not sleeping at the wheel and actually trying to contribute to complete the objective, that's all anyone can ask.

If your damage is a bit low and it bothers you that bad though, research online, get some more cp and look into wearing some better armor sets. Like someone mentioned there are some good sets out there that don't require doing trials to get. Overall though, just do your best and have fun while you can.

Mister_DMC · July 2018

I understand the ops plight, we've all been there. While I understand it's a large undertaking for the development team I would love to see a Heroic version of the dungeons be implemented with added mechanics to every boss. This would only be accessible to max level players with the previous hardmode achievements.

It's a great way to refresh aging content without stressing the graphic arts team to make all new dungeons.

Aebaradath · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Why do people keep calling in Advanced Yokeda? Is it to show that they've been playing since before it was renamed?

There are problems with end game progression. There I said it. You don't agree? Keep buying your ESO+. But don't tell newer players that they have personal problems because the progression is not fun.

This was supposed to be a constructive criticism of the game to inspire new ideas to solve the problem.

What problem? People pulling more DPS because they're more experienced and have their rotation down to a tee?

It's not like you'll turn into an OP 30-40k DPS player who does 60% of the group's DPS just by farming all the super-duper "Meta" sets, Maelstrom gear and having 750CPs to use.

You can't blame the game or say it needs changes because your experience is less than enjoyable when you're so focused and set on the numbers and comparing your performance against other players.

If pulling more group DPS or whatever makes you happy it's just a whole lot of e-peen and...

...measuring.

Nevasca · July 2018

The word you are looking for is powercreep, and doesn't necessarily have to do with CP. The player is so strong that the old content is too easy. Players are putting 50k DPS at the top now, while before it used to be around 30k (Solo-parses), and before that even lower. You don't need to be a top player to rolll through Veteran dungeons like it's normal mode anymore, the average veteran player can do that already with ease. The issue is not the number of CP per say, the player in general gets too much power from the current gear combos and CP.

Base game dungeons are a joke, DLC dungeons are not hard for a veteran, but hard to the casual players, while DLC HMs are a challenge to the average veteran, but not a challenge at all to a top tier player, as it should imo.

JumpmanLane · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I am a CP340 stamblade. I follow meta as well as I can, work on my rotation, and without pots am around 20K on a target dummy. In veteran dungeons, if I am with a similar level DPS, I am pulling 40-45% dps, more on trash. However, if I am paired with a CP750, I am pulling 30-35%, sometimes even less. I'm working on VMA and am geared for beginning trials.

I'm starting to burn out on the game and IMO, the problem with ESO "endgame" is that the vast majority of it, you experience with CP750 players who already outgear the content. Instead of having a good time and feeling like you are responsible for figuring out and surviving mechanics, the "feeling" is that you are an undesirable appendage who is just causing it to take longer than it must. Worst case scenario, you die and the CP750 players dont res you (or dont heal you) because they can roll over the content without you. (Or how about the CP750 dps who runs as tank and doesnt give a **** about your or your penetration buffs) Its not a team effort when overgeared players are involved. In fact, overgeared players allow abuse of the mechanics and a cheapening of the experience.

The problem with the game, the "doldrums", the "burnout" is that high CP players overgear the majority of content you encounter, and instead of feeling like a valued team member, instead there is this (usually) unspoken complaint that you are not good enough. I don't feel like a hero, I feel like a useless appendage.

What can ZOS do about it? 1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs. 2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?) 3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

I’m not a max cp player but I run with some who are well beyond max cp. sometimes we run dungeons and get a random low cp player in the queue and my friends outright ignore or instantly vote and kick they one random. I used to think it was funny but now I’m like “come on, man...”

I get my friends side of it. They’ve done the content dozens of times. They know all the mechanics. They’ve got the busts and heads. They’re farming or just bored dorking around. They’ll leave ME if I’m trying to do the quest. Rush off and kill all they adds and wait for me by the boss.

I usually queue as a tank though I’m a dps. Some random asked “what’s the tank doing?” I told him “Stfu, sit back and enjoy the ride!” Everyone thought it was funny. Then like a week later we ran a dungeon and this level 38 was struggling a bit and my friends abandoned the guy or girl. I went back and 2 manned it with the 38 back to the final boss.

@ that dude.” I was like “nah, that ain’t cool. That dudes trying, fighting his a** off, trying to enjoy the content. We should do it right. He’ll be sooo stoked to get the undaunted bust. Might be his first one. Remember YOUR first one?”

They were like “all right.” We kept another one. Got the random in discord and ran a few more vet dungeons and we all made a new friend. It’s a social game after all. Some folks have just played it a little too long maybe.

carlos424 · July 2018

We’ve all been where you are. Maybe ZOS can figure out a way to allow similar CP level players to que for dungeons, but really, the best suggestion I have is for you to join a few guilds and post in chat that you are looking for mid-level cp players to group with for daily undaunted or whatever. Also, people are always making new characters. They might be cp750 but not fully geared up and definitely dont have undaunted, fighters guild, mages guild, etc. leveled. I usually post that I’m looking for a group for dailys to level my baby (sorc, nb, whatever). I usually get others who need to do the same. Here’s the thing. Once you get to cp750, and have done all these dungeons a hundred times on your main, you will want to rush through them too. You just have to look for people around your same level. Believe me, youre not the only one that feels this way, you might be surprised by the response.

ADarklore · July 2018

I have to agree with many here, the problem seems to be that you are pugging, instead of forming your own group or joining guildmates Search the forums and you'll find plenty of complaints about pug groups, and it has nothing to do with CP or vet players... when you pug you're playing the lottery, and like Crown Crates, you usually end up losing.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I am a CP340 stamblade. I follow meta as well as I can, work on my rotation, and without pots am around 20K on a target dummy. In veteran dungeons, if I am with a similar level DPS, I am pulling 40-45% dps, more on trash. However, if I am paired with a CP750, I am pulling 30-35%, sometimes even less. I'm working on VMA and am geared for beginning trials.

I'm starting to burn out on the game and IMO, the problem with ESO "endgame" is that the vast majority of it, you experience with CP750 players who already outgear the content. Instead of having a good time and feeling like you are responsible for figuring out and surviving mechanics, the "feeling" is that you are an undesirable appendage who is just causing it to take longer than it must. Worst case scenario, you die and the CP750 players dont res you (or dont heal you) because they can roll over the content without you. (Or how about the CP750 dps who runs as tank and doesnt give a **** about your or your penetration buffs) Its not a team effort when overgeared players are involved. In fact, overgeared players allow abuse of the mechanics and a cheapening of the experience.

The problem with the game, the "doldrums", the "burnout" is that high CP players overgear the majority of content you encounter, and instead of feeling like a valued team member, instead there is this (usually) unspoken complaint that you are not good enough. I don't feel like a hero, I feel like a useless appendage.

What can ZOS do about it? 1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs. 2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?) 3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

It's not the gear it's the high cp. Gear has far less of an effect in eso then other MMOs due to their linear stale mate progression system they are now married to due to tam 1. once your cp 160 you can gain anyset some one at 750 has.the cp system is broken one layer AA system that replaced VR ranks, instead developing a true AAsystem . I have completed everything as a tank with 340 cp except what was released with morrowind and Somerset. I quit due to the lack of progression other then finding the new meta proc sets.story content is mediocre .if I want to play an RPG and story I'll go play witcher or any other plethora of stellar RPGs there are to choose from. I came to ESO to play a AAA MMO . 4 years of constantly redesinging this game to be a hybrid single player rpg and it's not my liking so I've moved on

Bladerunner1 · July 2018

I was DPSing the vet spindleclutch 2 pledge with a couple of cp 250ish guild mates and heard a comment like "Is this really Vet?". Then I noticed on the final vampire boss, Vorenor Winterbourne, they kept dying to his attack when he targeted the whole group one at a time. The tank kept typing "block!" and that was when I realized the huge difference CP made. I haven't bothered to block any of that stuff for over a year since there was still close to 40% health left after the attacks, it didn't even occur to either of the 750 CP players to warn the new players about that mechanic, we told them everything else they needed to hear because they haven't done much vet content before.

The power progression of Higher CP is part of the reason tanking with actual tank gear gets really boring in some 4 player content, high CP DPS are already tanks in the easier dungeons. I like to think difficulty scaling could gain another tier, along with rescaling based on group size.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Why do people keep calling in Advanced Yokeda? Is it to show that they've been playing since before it was renamed?

There are problems with end game progression. There I said it. You don't agree? Keep buying your ESO+. But don't tell newer players that they have personal problems because the progression is not fun.

This was supposed to be a constructive criticism of the game to inspire new ideas to solve the problem.

What problem? People pulling more DPS because they're more experienced and have their rotation down to a tee?

It's not like you'll turn into an OP 30-40k DPS player who does 60% of the group's DPS just by farming all the super-duper "Meta" sets, Maelstrom gear and having 750CPs to use.

You can't blame the game or say it needs changes because your experience is less than enjoyable when you're so focused and set on the numbers and comparing your performance against other players.

If pulling more group DPS or whatever makes you happy it's just a whole lot of e-peen and...

...measuring.

What? I'm complaining about the experience of being expendable. Of high CP players abusing the mechanics and making in unenjoyable. DPS metrics only given for comparison to show where I am.

I absolutely believe that with endgame sets, caltrops, and pots, I would be pulling much more dps. There is a synergy.

I dont have the sustain to run caltrops atm anyway so I focus on keeping up all my dots and buffs.

Vicious Ophidian is a perfect example. Without this set, you could do momentary high DPS by layering caltrops with your other dots, but after a minute you would be out of stamina.

I probably shouldn't have responded to you, but you're just wrong. All of the thin

Mister_DMC wrote: »

I understand the ops plight, we've all been there. While I understand it's a large undertaking for the development team I would love to see a Heroic version of the dungeons be implemented with added mechanics to every boss. This would only be accessible to max level players with the previous hardmode achievements.

It's a great way to refresh aging content without stressing the graphic arts team to make all new dungeons.

Thats a great idea. Theoretically, with each new patch, they could increase the difficulty of heroic dungeons to match the power creep. After all, they would be designed for max CP players.

As player base ages, power creeps and a larger % of them are at max CP.

As incentive to run them, they could occasionally drop those potent transmute geodes that have ten or more crystals inside.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

Truth spoken.OP dont take that as insult the game is not overly hard to play. It's just the meta is usually hidden behind bugs like animation canceling they now call a feature

KraziJoe · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I am a CP340 stamblade. I follow meta as well as I can, work on my rotation, and without pots am around 20K on a target dummy. In veteran dungeons, if I am with a similar level DPS, I am pulling 40-45% dps, more on trash. However, if I am paired with a CP750, I am pulling 30-35%, sometimes even less. I'm working on VMA and am geared for beginning trials.

I'm starting to burn out on the game and IMO, the problem with ESO "endgame" is that the vast majority of it, you experience with CP750 players who already outgear the content. Instead of having a good time and feeling like you are responsible for figuring out and surviving mechanics, the "feeling" is that you are an undesirable appendage who is just causing it to take longer than it must. Worst case scenario, you die and the CP750 players dont res you (or dont heal you) because they can roll over the content without you. (Or how about the CP750 dps who runs as tank and doesnt give a **** about your or your penetration buffs) Its not a team effort when overgeared players are involved. In fact, overgeared players allow abuse of the mechanics and a cheapening of the experience.

The problem with the game, the "doldrums", the "burnout" is that high CP players overgear the majority of content you encounter, and instead of feeling like a valued team member, instead there is this (usually) unspoken complaint that you are not good enough. I don't feel like a hero, I feel like a useless appendage.

What can ZOS do about it? 1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs. 2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?) 3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

I don't see the issue. What are you complaining about? Someone doing more damage than you?
In a PUG don't expect to do anything except run from beginning to end, doesn't matter if you are CP 1000 or level 20...
Sure there are some PUG's that do it slow and explain mechanics and actually look for HB's and chests but most just want to finish in a rush instead of enjoying the ride...
It's not a CP thing at all, it's a player thing...

OGLezard · July 2018

Last night I ran with two low cp level players, 1 was 324, the other was 216. My buddy opted to help me help them. He is max cp tank, and I am max cp dps.

In both daily dungeons for undaunted we took the time to explain each mechanic, and I even held back a little on my dps by swapping to a couple support skills.

When the two low cp wiped on hard mode valkyn skoria, after the platforms were both destroyed, me and my buddy went full on duo on the boss and the low cp players laid there dead cheering us on as we finished off the last 30%.

We did everything we could to make sure they had fun, understood each mechanic, and helped them understand what they did wrong and could improve on.

Sorry you think us max level cp players are ruining your fun...... I can assure we are not all like you describe op.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

I was pretty clear, i wasn't potting, nor do i have caltrops. I also run flurry instead of surprise attack because i like the constant healing for pugs.

Based on DPS %s compared to other players, I am definitely at least on the high side of average.

Sure I could pull more with caltrops and pots, but the content doesn't demand it.

I'm not complaining about being underpowered, but about the content being so easy that the presence of high CP players allows them to abuse the mechanics. Its just not fun.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

I was pretty clear, i wasn't potting, nor do i have caltrops. I also run flurry instead of surprise attack because i like the constant healing for pugs.

Based on DPS %s compared to other players, I am definitely at least on the high side of average.

Sure I could pull more with caltrops and pots, but the content doesn't demand it.

I'm not complaining about being underpowered, but about the content being so easy that the presence of high CP players allows them to abuse the mechanics. Its just not fun.

I guess I just don't see the issue then. You won't run a maximum-effectiveness build because the content doesn't demand it, but you don't like other players that do because it makes it too easy/makes you feel like you're underperforming.

If your issue is that some content isn't challenging, then I agree with you, and there's just no way around that. But I also have good news, some vet content is really hard, and will require you to push into higher numbers. I promise, there are some mechanics that simply cannot be ignored, no matter your CP.

And if all of the above fails, and you still aren't having fun, come to PvP. It's always a fun challenge there.

Wolfpaw · July 2018

GW2 LFG/party system is the best I have ever seen in a mmorpg, nothing comes close.

I wish ESO would copy it. No long queue, new players could group with similar and learn game mechanics better, speed runners will run with like, etc...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

ImmortalCX · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

I was pretty clear, i wasn't potting, nor do i have caltrops. I also run flurry instead of surprise attack because i like the constant healing for pugs.

Based on DPS %s compared to other players, I am definitely at least on the high side of average.

Sure I could pull more with caltrops and pots, but the content doesn't demand it.

I'm not complaining about being underpowered, but about the content being so easy that the presence of high CP players allows them to abuse the mechanics. Its just not fun.

I guess I just don't see the issue then. You won't run a maximum-effectiveness build because the content doesn't demand it, but you don't like other players that do because it makes it too easy/makes you feel like you're underperforming.

If your issue is that some content isn't challenging, then I agree with you, and there's just no way around that. But I also have good news, some vet content is really hard, and will require you to push into higher numbers.

And if all of the above fails, and you still aren't having fun, come to PvP. It's always a fun challenge there.

I think you exactly see the issue but are pretending that you dont, just to argue.

The issue is that that vet dungeons (even on HM) is pretty well balanced to a player pulling 20K dps. (From what I gather, that's what they were designed for.)

When there are players in there pulling 40K dps and with enough sustain to constantly pop Vigor or shields, they can abuse the boss mechanics, they dont really need a tank, and if you die it doesnt matter because they can sustain through it and the healer would really rather DPS anyway.

The content is balanced perfectly for ME and other players at my level, but pledges were never rebalanced to handle the power creep, and they are cluttered with MAX CP players who make a mockery of the difficult level. Instead of the game feeling challenging and fun, it ends up feeling like a meaningless grind to 750.

Depending on when you came up, the content was probably much better balanced to the typical power level, so you may have no idea what I'm talking about.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

At CP300, you should be able to pull higher DPS on a target dummy than 20k. It seems to me like there may be issues with your rotation, as that was what always held back my numbers, personally. If you could post a video of your parse, or a screenshot of the combat metrics summary, that would be helpful in determining what the DPS deficit is being caused by.

At any rate, it isn't really possible to be "over-geared" for content, since all content scales. It is possible to be under-geared, if you don't know how to build your character, or choose sets at random.

I was pretty clear, i wasn't potting, nor do i have caltrops. I also run flurry instead of surprise attack because i like the constant healing for pugs.

Based on DPS %s compared to other players, I am definitely at least on the high side of average.

Sure I could pull more with caltrops and pots, but the content doesn't demand it.

I'm not complaining about being underpowered, but about the content being so easy that the presence of high CP players allows them to abuse the mechanics. Its just not fun.

I guess I just don't see the issue then. You won't run a maximum-effectiveness build because the content doesn't demand it, but you don't like other players that do because it makes it too easy/makes you feel like you're underperforming.

If your issue is that some content isn't challenging, then I agree with you, and there's just no way around that. But I also have good news, some vet content is really hard, and will require you to push into higher numbers.

And if all of the above fails, and you still aren't having fun, come to PvP. It's always a fun challenge there.

I think you exactly see the issue but are pretending that you dont, just to argue.

The issue is that that vet dungeons (even on HM) is pretty well balanced to a player pulling 20K dps. (From what I gather, that's what they were designed for.)

When there are players in there pulling 40K dps and with enough sustain to constantly pop Vigor or shields, they can abuse the boss mechanics, they dont really need a tank, and if you die it doesnt matter because they can sustain through it and the healer would really rather DPS anyway.

The content is balanced perfectly for ME and other players at my level, but pledges were never rebalanced to handle the power creep, and they are cluttered with MAX CP players who make a mockery of the difficult level. Instead of the game feeling challenging and fun, it ends up feeling like a meaningless grind to 750.

Depending on when you came up, the content was probably much better balanced to the typical power level, so you may have no idea what I'm talking about.

I'll admit, I've been around for a while (I remember finally getting to VR16 back in the day), and you're absolutely right about the power creep. But I was misunderstanding you, I see your point now. Unfortunately, I just don't think there is an immediate, practical solution that you could use, or that ZOS could implement. Separating the queues based on CP would widen the skill gap between skilled and unskilled players. It would also increase queue times for everyone, as the pools of players to make groups from would be effectively cut in half.

And separately, I don't think most max CP players want the dungeons to be harder. Most of them have done them hundreds of times for dailies and achievements, and at this point, they mostly burn through them as fast as possible just so they can do other things in game (which, if I understand you correctly, is the root of your problem). While I don't think you'd have a hard time selling the idea of separate queues to max CP players, I don't think many of them would want that to come with a difficulty increase.

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

Its like going to a movie and having your friend tell you what is going to happen next every few minutes. There is nothing wrong with the movie, the problem is that you are seated next to someone who is ruining it for you.

I belive this is a serious problem in the game and I hope ZOS is listening.

Power creep didn't make the vet dungeons irrelevant, its the presence of "overpowered" people being forced to run them for pledges that ruins it for players who are still developing.

My suggestion was that the game needs something like heroic dungeons to de-incentivize these OP players from ruining what would otherwise be good content.

Aebaradath · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

[I probably shouldn't have responded to you, but you're just wrong.

Uh-huh. So explain to me why you need VO or any other set to sustain Caltrops, because that's the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time.

Is it just me or does this feel like a Sting 2.0 thread?

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

Its like going to a movie and having your friend tell you what is going to happen next every few minutes. There is nothing wrong with the movie, the problem is that you are seated next to someone who is ruining it for you.

I belive this is a serious problem in the game and I hope ZOS is listening.

Power creep didn't make the vet dungeons irrelevant, its the presence of "overpowered" people being forced to run them for pledges that ruins it for players who are still developing.

My suggestion was that the game needs something like heroic dungeons to de-incentivize these OP players from ruining what would otherwise be good content.

The problem with that solution is that it's basically punishing players who play the game. At a a certain point, lots of players get to that level, and to create artificial barriers to keep them out of content for the sake of lower-leveled players would cause an outrage among the high level players.

SquareSausage · July 2018

We finished this dungeon too easy.

Damn people complain about everything these days.

jaws343 · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

Its like going to a movie and having your friend tell you what is going to happen next every few minutes. There is nothing wrong with the movie, the problem is that you are seated next to someone who is ruining it for you.

I belive this is a serious problem in the game and I hope ZOS is listening.

Power creep didn't make the vet dungeons irrelevant, its the presence of "overpowered" people being forced to run them for pledges that ruins it for players who are still developing.

My suggestion was that the game needs something like heroic dungeons to de-incentivize these OP players from ruining what would otherwise be good content.

You act like another dungeon level would lead players to playing it over your preferred method of difficulty. But players barely do the hard mode in vet dungeons unless it is the pledge/non-dlc. And if it isn't the pledge, players are only doing vet dungeons for the completion or the gear. if it is the gear, increasing the difficulty isn't going to lead those players to the new content. They will stay in the regular vet queue to get their jewelry and then jump down to normal to get the rest. Unless you want to force CP cap players to only be allowed to queue for this "heroic" difficulty.

If you aren't forcing them, they won't do it. And if you are forcing them, you will eventually be forcing yourself. And when you are CP cap and still unable to do sufficient DPS to complete this more challenging difficulty, you will then be the problem, and you will come here and complain that you are getting kicked from groups for not having enough DPS.

Either way, this won't work the way you want it to. And dungeons are fine.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

Its like going to a movie and having your friend tell you what is going to happen next every few minutes. There is nothing wrong with the movie, the problem is that you are seated next to someone who is ruining it for you.

I belive this is a serious problem in the game and I hope ZOS is listening.

Power creep didn't make the vet dungeons irrelevant, its the presence of "overpowered" people being forced to run them for pledges that ruins it for players who are still developing.

My suggestion was that the game needs something like heroic dungeons to de-incentivize these OP players from ruining what would otherwise be good content.

The problem with that solution is that it's basically punishing players who play the game. At a a certain point, lots of players get to that level, and to create artificial barriers to keep them out of content for the sake of lower-leveled players would cause an outrage among the high level players.

Its a problem that ZOS needs to work out.

It wouldnt be punishing players if heroic dungeons were made available that offered better rewards. If the dungeon dropped xmute geodes and occasional gold jewelry, it would be enough incentive for these max cp players to run them instead of sandbagging the vet pledges.

No-CP PVP campaigns were created for a similar purpose, to help separate player populations. Hopefully they will recognize that there is a similar problem in PVE and create heroic dungeons.

The only problem I see with this is that there might be a lack of pre-750 players to run vet dungeons if they made heroic pledges. Maybe they could start by only allowing one heroic pledge per day.

p00tx · July 2018

Queueing for a pug dungeon is almost never ever going to get you what you're looking for, and trying to change the game to suit this lack is not a good idea. This is a multi-player game, which means multiple players have to be taken into account when designing it. We can't dumb the game down to a CP 300 level to suit the needs of one person because that would be colossally unfair to those above that level. You can however make friends with people who have the same vision you do (they are out there. I promise.), and queue a dungeon with them. Problem solved.

You cannot control the dungeons, but you absolutely CAN control who you run them with.

PS. You're supposed to look to the performance of a 750 as something to work toward, not a pain point. Why on earth would anyone have the same ability at 350 as someone at 750? That makes zero sense. You absolutely SHOULD be weaker, and there is nothing wrong with that or with you. You're right where you're supposed to be.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Finally, 99% of the people you group with, you will never group with again, unless they are in your guild or friends list. Again, no reason to worry about what someone thinks when you will never play with again.

not true, if people play the same time as you doing similar content there is a chance to meet up again. I ran into the same people in many run in other mmo using lfg (duty finder) in dungeons.

LiquidPony · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

One solution I can offer is for you to reach the CP cap (or not, it probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference) and focus on the DLC dungeons. Those have been consistently more difficult than the base game dungeons, and more dependent on following the mechanics. I understand that it would be a shame to look at most of the 4-player group content as "too easy," but just based on the game's lifespan, at this point, it is and probably always will be very easy to clear most of the dungeons in game currently.

Its like going to a movie and having your friend tell you what is going to happen next every few minutes. There is nothing wrong with the movie, the problem is that you are seated next to someone who is ruining it for you.

I belive this is a serious problem in the game and I hope ZOS is listening.

Power creep didn't make the vet dungeons irrelevant, its the presence of "overpowered" people being forced to run them for pledges that ruins it for players who are still developing.

My suggestion was that the game needs something like heroic dungeons to de-incentivize these OP players from ruining what would otherwise be good content.

The problem with that solution is that it's basically punishing players who play the game. At a a certain point, lots of players get to that level, and to create artificial barriers to keep them out of content for the sake of lower-leveled players would cause an outrage among the high level players.

Its a problem that ZOS needs to work out.

It wouldnt be punishing players if heroic dungeons were made available that offered better rewards. If the dungeon dropped xmute geodes and occasional gold jewelry, it would be enough incentive for these max cp players to run them instead of sandbagging the vet pledges.

No-CP PVP campaigns were created for a similar purpose, to help separate player populations. Hopefully they will recognize that there is a similar problem in PVE and create heroic dungeons.

The only problem I see with this is that there might be a lack of pre-750 players to run vet dungeons if they made heroic pledges. Maybe they could start by only allowing one heroic pledge per day.

Your mistake here is thinking that CP is the primary factor that differentiates good and bad players or high DPS and low DPS players.

That is not the case.

Do enough Activity Finder content and you'll come across plenty of CP995 players who mostly spam bow light attacks, and you'll come across plenty of CP300-400 players with Maelstrom weapons and mostly BiS gear setups doing top-end DPS.

The solution to your problem is the same as it's always been. If you want a group that runs dungeons your way, then group up with like-minded individuals, find a guild, etc. If you use the Activity Finder, you are at the mercy of the other 3 people in the group.