Max CP players "ruin" content for advancing players

DuskMarine · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I am a CP340 stamblade. I follow meta as well as I can, work on my rotation, and without pots am around 20K on a target dummy. In veteran dungeons, if I am with a similar level DPS, I am pulling 40-45% dps, more on trash. However, if I am paired with a CP750, I am pulling 30-35%, sometimes even less. I'm working on VMA and am geared for beginning trials.

I'm starting to burn out on the game and IMO, the problem with ESO "endgame" is that the vast majority of it, you experience with CP750 players who already outgear the content. Instead of having a good time and feeling like you are responsible for figuring out and surviving mechanics, the "feeling" is that you are an undesirable appendage who is just causing it to take longer than it must. Worst case scenario, you die and the CP750 players dont res you (or dont heal you) because they can roll over the content without you. (Or how about the CP750 dps who runs as tank and doesnt give a **** about your or your penetration buffs) Its not a team effort when overgeared players are involved. In fact, overgeared players allow abuse of the mechanics and a cheapening of the experience.

The problem with the game, the "doldrums", the "burnout" is that high CP players overgear the majority of content you encounter, and instead of feeling like a valued team member, instead there is this (usually) unspoken complaint that you are not good enough. I don't feel like a hero, I feel like a useless appendage.

What can ZOS do about it? 1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs. 2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?) 3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

man youve gotta get use to it or find another game. but even still there are gonna be people higher level and better than you in every game you play that do not wanna wait on you. if you think thats bad you need to go play single player games cause multiplayer theres always someone way better than you that wont care if you die and leave you dead. its either catch up and get better or stay behind.

TheDarkoil · July 2018

Forget about bis and meta and just pug some normal original trials, you will learn the mechanics and slowly obtain the gear you think is overpowered. Plus 18.2k pen is too much especially with sets like night mothers or anyone using ele drain. It's too much for most of VMA as well, for example valkyn skoria only has 9k physical resistance.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also see this daily, as i run dungeons on many characters and around 1200 CP.

I have played the same dungeons over and over and over i know every mechanic, every mob spawn and how to kite/drag mobs for optimal efficiency and experience newer players asking me questions and such, which i am happy to answer.

I run these dungeons to get reward at end, so i go as fast as possible to do more characters and more rewards and can see how players get put off by me speeding through dungeons but my goal is end reward while others is to experience the dungeon etc.

My best advice is to group with others of similar levels and mindset. Then you will be in your element and get more enjoyment out of your playtime.

What if they made a heroic dungeon level that you could run for your pledges instead of sandbagging hm vet?

I understand where you are coming from, you just want your stuff, but that ruins the content for everyone who is not at your level.

Its not your fault for "wanting your rewards" but the fact that progression is messed up. There needs to be a way to segregate top level players from those who are still advancing.

VaranisArano · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

So, after CP 160, no one actually "out gears" the content. Rather, anyone over level 50 can do the vet dungeons, and anyone over CP 300 can do vet DLC dungeons. So you've pretty much only just hit the point of being ready to tackle the vet DLC dungeons. Thats pretty good!

But problem isn't that you are out-geared, its that you feel out-DPSed. At 20k DPS, you've got decent DPS for a vet dungeon. Chances are, those times you get paired with a DD of your level, they are doing less DPS than that. That's why your percentage of the group total is higher. If those CP 750,were pulling 25 to 30k DPS, yeah your percentage is going to drop off,

I suggest you look away from the percentage of damage, because it isn't doing you any favors. Instead, pay more attention to your damage. Are you happy doing 20k DPS or do you want it to be higher? If you want it to be higher, I suggest looking at builds, rotations, and practicing what you need to do to reach higher DPS numbers.

In other words, the problem is not those high CP players doing more DPS and bringing your percentage down. The problem is that the only way for you to increase your DPS is to practice increasing it to the level you desire according to the content you want to run.

Finally, if you really want to run with people your level, I suggest putting together a group in zone chat or your guilds.

I appreciate you post, and this is the approach I've been taking. But the lack of enjoyment doesnt come from having less DPS than a 750, but because when 750s are involved, the content is waayyy to easy, to the point that the mechanics can be abused (dont need to heal or res a lower dps, fake tanks, etc)

When people can run vet dungeons without a tank, can you tell me with a straight face that they are not overgeared?

Also, there are very specific thresholds to reach for a stamblade. It wasnt until around CP300 that I had enough points in penetration (65 i think) to hit the 18.2k buffed. At this point I have very few CP points to allocate elsewhere.

Yeah, depending on the dungeon, they aren't overgeared.

See, ESO's dungeons are such that sufficient DPS can burn almost everything. Tanks and healers are strictly necessary only when there's a mechanic requiring them (DLC dungeons are much better about this) or the group DPS is low enough that the mechanics have to be respected.

Every group Ive been with that had low to average group DPS needed a tank. Every group I've had that out-DPSed the content only needed me to hold the boss still for the stack-n-burn.

Now, some of that DPS comes from gear and CP. (And Caltrops and that VMA gear, which can be gotten by CP 300). Because its going to take more than 20k DPS to pull a stack-n-burn in a vet dungeon unless its a really easy one. 20k DPS is sufficient to complete most vets, though it will not be the fastest clear. (I ran Vet COA2 for the first time with friends, where our DDs were pulling between 15-20k DPS and it was a long slow painful slog)

In other words, more DPS allows players to ignore mechanics. CP, gear, rotation, and practice all combine to reach that level of DPS that lets players stack-n-burn bosses in vet dungeons, and if they can hit that level of DPS with 3 DDs and a tank or a healer, they don't need the other support role. But its more of a flat DPS check, with reaching that level of DPS however they can, than a "you must be CP 750 to attempt this".

zaria · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

What can ZOS do about it?

1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs.

2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?)

3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

1) Not really a suggestion for ZOS and I guess encouragement for players mid-range CP to quit?
2) Not a bad suggestion and one that has been made by multiple "sub-groups" of CP players.
3) You want to punish players for having a different CP than you? Isn't this the same thing you are complaining about?

The goal is to get overgeared players out of content that they will ruin for advancing players.

My proposal is the carrot and the stick. Make a heroic pledge that gives more rewards, but dont let them sandbag and speed run normal vets for the same rewards, because this is what they will do, even if there are heroic dungeons.

Vet dungeons are not equal, the easier ones like CoA 1 and Wayrest 1 is more like normal dlc and is usually smoother since the players are more experienced. Vet DLC on the other hand is far harder.
However players with high dps might well want to do CoA1 anyway for pledges or gear.

20K is good enough for vet dungeons, you would want to be a bit higher for dlc. But you will not be kicked because of dps.
And you have plenty of room for improvement to.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also see this daily, as i run dungeons on many characters and around 1200 CP.

I have played the same dungeons over and over and over i know every mechanic, every mob spawn and how to kite/drag mobs for optimal efficiency and experience newer players asking me questions and such, which i am happy to answer.

I run these dungeons to get reward at end, so i go as fast as possible to do more characters and more rewards and can see how players get put off by me speeding through dungeons but my goal is end reward while others is to experience the dungeon etc.

My best advice is to group with others of similar levels and mindset. Then you will be in your element and get more enjoyment out of your playtime.

What if they made a heroic dungeon level that you could run for your pledges instead of sandbagging hm vet?

I understand where you are coming from, you just want your stuff, but that ruins the content for everyone who is not at your level.

Its not your fault for "wanting your rewards" but the fact that progression is messed up. There needs to be a way to segregate top level players from those who are still advancing.

Why do you want it harder for yourself?
That is the only thing that you will accomplish by trying to get rid of max-CP characters, which by the way will likely make it take a lot longer to form a group since people don't stay mid-CP for long.

"Still advancing" is a load of BS! You should have all your necessary skills by now and have access to all the same gear as anybody else from cp160 to cp750. You should know how to use your skills also because you learned how to play your character a long time ago.
What are you "still advancing"?

You've hit endgame and endgame is always a grind repeating the same things getting yourself more efficient at it. Other players are not holding you back. You're holding yourself back now. In fact, the other higher CP players are making it faster for you to get the gear that you may not have gotten in the best trait yet so they are actually advancing you faster than you would if you were the highest CP in the group.

I'm done with this "definition of insanity" refusal to do what they know they need to.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

TheDarkoil wrote: »

Forget about bis and meta and just pug some normal original trials, you will learn the mechanics and slowly obtain the gear you think is overpowered. Plus 18.2k pen is too much especially with sets like night mothers or anyone using ele drain. It's too much for most of VMA as well, for example valkyn skoria only has 9k physical resistance.

I had NMG but after the nerf its a useless set. Get Major Fracture elsewhere.

Beardimus · July 2018

Good advice in this thread OP.

Honestly stop worrying, and play with mates. End game PvE can be clicky, try PvP. They have noCP so ur already end game there.

ImmortalCX · July 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also see this daily, as i run dungeons on many characters and around 1200 CP.

I have played the same dungeons over and over and over i know every mechanic, every mob spawn and how to kite/drag mobs for optimal efficiency and experience newer players asking me questions and such, which i am happy to answer.

I run these dungeons to get reward at end, so i go as fast as possible to do more characters and more rewards and can see how players get put off by me speeding through dungeons but my goal is end reward while others is to experience the dungeon etc.

My best advice is to group with others of similar levels and mindset. Then you will be in your element and get more enjoyment out of your playtime.

What if they made a heroic dungeon level that you could run for your pledges instead of sandbagging hm vet?

I understand where you are coming from, you just want your stuff, but that ruins the content for everyone who is not at your level.

Its not your fault for "wanting your rewards" but the fact that progression is messed up. There needs to be a way to segregate top level players from those who are still advancing.

Why do you want it harder for yourself?
That is the only thing that you will accomplish by trying to get rid of max-CP characters, which by the way will likely make it take a lot longer to form a group since people don't stay mid-CP for long.

"Still advancing" is a load of BS! You should have all your necessary skills by now and have access to all the same gear as anybody else from cp160 to cp750. You should know how to use your skills also because you learned how to play your character a long time ago.
What are you "still advancing"?

You've hit endgame and endgame is always a grind repeating the same things getting yourself more efficient at it. Other players are not holding you back. You're holding yourself back now. In fact, the other higher CP players are making it faster for you to get the gear that you may not have gotten in the best trait yet so they are actually advancing you faster than you would if you were the highest CP in the group.

I'm done with this "definition of insanity" refusal to do what they know they need to.

The elitism is strong in this one.

SoLooney · July 2018

then dont queue in group finder. all the problems you stated can be avoided if you run with your own friends or guildmates

and what makes you think youre severely behind cp 750 players? highest lvl gear is cp 160 which you are above. the only thing that kinda holds you back is cp but the cp tree works as diminshing returns so the lower level cps arent as behind the higher lvl cp players

bis gear on a stamblade single target is relequen and adv yokeda which is easy to farm if you have good rng. perfect relquen is probs out of your reach

and max cp players ruin the game cause they can faceroll through dungeons quickly snd that they dont res you?

just a whiny thread full of personal problems

Apache_Kid · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also see this daily, as i run dungeons on many characters and around 1200 CP.

I have played the same dungeons over and over and over i know every mechanic, every mob spawn and how to kite/drag mobs for optimal efficiency and experience newer players asking me questions and such, which i am happy to answer.

I run these dungeons to get reward at end, so i go as fast as possible to do more characters and more rewards and can see how players get put off by me speeding through dungeons but my goal is end reward while others is to experience the dungeon etc.

My best advice is to group with others of similar levels and mindset. Then you will be in your element and get more enjoyment out of your playtime.

What if they made a heroic dungeon level that you could run for your pledges instead of sandbagging hm vet?

I understand where you are coming from, you just want your stuff, but that ruins the content for everyone who is not at your level.

Its not your fault for "wanting your rewards" but the fact that progression is messed up. There needs to be a way to segregate top level players from those who are still advancing.

Why do you want it harder for yourself?
That is the only thing that you will accomplish by trying to get rid of max-CP characters, which by the way will likely make it take a lot longer to form a group since people don't stay mid-CP for long.

"Still advancing" is a load of BS! You should have all your necessary skills by now and have access to all the same gear as anybody else from cp160 to cp750. You should know how to use your skills also because you learned how to play your character a long time ago.
What are you "still advancing"?

You've hit endgame and endgame is always a grind repeating the same things getting yourself more efficient at it. Other players are not holding you back. You're holding yourself back now. In fact, the other higher CP players are making it faster for you to get the gear that you may not have gotten in the best trait yet so they are actually advancing you faster than you would if you were the highest CP in the group.

I'm done with this "definition of insanity" refusal to do what they know they need to.

The elitism is strong in this one.

If you think that is elitist then i have some people in my trials guild you should meet lmaoooooo

ImmortalCX · July 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

then dont queue in group finder. all the problems you stated can be avoided if you run with your own friends or guildmates

No, the problem is still there. Most friends are either pre CP or 750.

The problem is with progression in ESO.

People complaing about "fake tanks" and other things, yet that is just a symptom of the same problem.

nadrokal · July 2018

I've had encounters with the people to OP is describing, and they do tend to suck any sense of fun out of the dungeon. And sure he's probably done that dungeon a bazillion times and just wants to get it over with. But you know what? Those mid-CP people trying to get gear, learn mechanics and practice their rotations are potentially going to be filling your vet groups some day. Having a bit of patience or even some simple empathy towards another player can pay off in the end. But sadly too many are in the "UGH STOOPID RANDOS" mindset and expect everyone to have perfect knowledge of every dungeon as soon as they hit the queue button.

Joining guilds or otherwise forming a group beforehand isn't always the answer, either. It can sometimes take even longer than using the group finder. And as far as punishing those overpowered for the content, I'm going to have to vote against that. Simply because it also punishes the people who actually are friendly, decent and helpful people. Short of some sort of voting system, which would be wide open to abuse, there isn't much ZOS can do to punish the queue trolls that doesn't hurt everyone else. Best thing to do? Take the time to find a group of people you know are patient, or failing that leave and try again. I've had to do that twice, and while sitting in queue again is not fun sometimes it''s really the only answer.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also see this daily, as i run dungeons on many characters and around 1200 CP.

I have played the same dungeons over and over and over i know every mechanic, every mob spawn and how to kite/drag mobs for optimal efficiency and experience newer players asking me questions and such, which i am happy to answer.

I run these dungeons to get reward at end, so i go as fast as possible to do more characters and more rewards and can see how players get put off by me speeding through dungeons but my goal is end reward while others is to experience the dungeon etc.

My best advice is to group with others of similar levels and mindset. Then you will be in your element and get more enjoyment out of your playtime.

What if they made a heroic dungeon level that you could run for your pledges instead of sandbagging hm vet?

I understand where you are coming from, you just want your stuff, but that ruins the content for everyone who is not at your level.

Its not your fault for "wanting your rewards" but the fact that progression is messed up. There needs to be a way to segregate top level players from those who are still advancing.

Why do you want it harder for yourself?
That is the only thing that you will accomplish by trying to get rid of max-CP characters, which by the way will likely make it take a lot longer to form a group since people don't stay mid-CP for long.

"Still advancing" is a load of BS! You should have all your necessary skills by now and have access to all the same gear as anybody else from cp160 to cp750. You should know how to use your skills also because you learned how to play your character a long time ago.
What are you "still advancing"?

You've hit endgame and endgame is always a grind repeating the same things getting yourself more efficient at it. Other players are not holding you back. You're holding yourself back now. In fact, the other higher CP players are making it faster for you to get the gear that you may not have gotten in the best trait yet so they are actually advancing you faster than you would if you were the highest CP in the group.

I'm done with this "definition of insanity" refusal to do what they know they need to.

The elitism is strong in this one.

.

.

I run "normal" dungeons if that. I mostly just do overland content. I've only once ever joined a trial, and didn't stay in it.
If I am "elitist" then we've got a serious problem with the higher difficulty stuff that I don't do because it must be impossible.

I'm just telling you to stop trying to measure your *** against another dude's ***. That's all you are doing when you only care about dps and don't realize that "you beat the boss" which is the only damn goal of pledge runs and the dungeons after the first run for the story anyway.

So again:

Jameson Laughing

ImmortalCX · July 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

then dont queue in group finder. all the problems you stated can be avoided if you run with your own friends or guildmates

and what makes you think youre severely behind cp 750 players? highest lvl gear is cp 160 which you are above. the only thing that kinda holds you back is cp but the cp tree works as diminshing returns so the lower level cps arent as behind the higher lvl cp players

bis gear on a stamblade single target is relequen and adv yokeda which is easy to farm if you have good rng. perfect relquen is probs out of your reach

and max cp players ruin the game cause they can faceroll through dungeons quickly snd that they dont res you?

just a whiny thread full of personal problems

Why do people keep calling in Advanced Yokeda? Is it to show that they've been playing since before it was renamed?

There are problems with end game progression. There I said it. You don't agree? Keep buying your ESO+. But don't tell newer players that they have personal problems because the progression is not fun.

This was supposed to be a constructive criticism of the game to inspire new ideas to solve the problem.

Inarre · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

What can ZOS do about it?

1) I'm sure they won't do anything about it unless they see a bunch of people fading out and quitting in the mid CPs.

2) Put high CP players in different undaunted pools (?)

3) Reduce pledge rewards for high CPs who outmatch the content -- give them incentives to run more advanced content (idk, maybe have heroic dungeons where mobs get an extra 4k resists or something like that.)

1) Not really a suggestion for ZOS and I guess encouragement for players mid-range CP to quit?
2) Not a bad suggestion and one that has been made by multiple "sub-groups" of CP players.
3) You want to punish players for having a different CP than you? Isn't this the same thing you are complaining about?

The goal is to get overgeared players out of content that they will ruin for advancing players.

My proposal is the carrot and the stick. Make a heroic pledge that gives more rewards, but dont let them sandbag and speed run normal vets for the same rewards, because this is what they will do, even if there are heroic dungeons.

Except that the content that you consider people "overgeared" for is the exact content that they should be running, so long as you are queing for veteran dungeons.

CP750 players ARE veteran players and SHOULD BE running veteran content.

If VETERAN players are ruining your VETERAN dungeon then you should reconsider your perspective.

Hurtfan · July 2018

Sorry I ruin your play.

XxCaLxX · July 2018

I don’t understand the term of over geared. A 160 can use the same gear as a 750. The correct term is more experienced.

VaranisArano · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

then dont queue in group finder. all the problems you stated can be avoided if you run with your own friends or guildmates

No, the problem is still there. Most friends are either pre CP or 750.

The problem is with progression in ESO.

People complaing about "fake tanks" and other things, yet that is just a symptom of the same problem.

Part of the problem is that you are conflating CP 750 with "People who do high DPS and ignore mechanics in dungeons." There's overlap, but its far from 100%.

Another part of the problem is the assumption that because you aren't CP 750 you can't do the same level of DPS.

The only way to avoid those "I've got high DPS so I'm gonna ignore mechanics and rush through the dungeon" folks that we see at all levels of the groupfinder for normal and vet alike is to form your own group from zone or guild.

Or there's my approach as the tank or healer when people rush ahead, "You'd better not blame me if you die before I get there."

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

Actually, you are also overgeared for the majority of group content, just like those cp750s.
That's because when this content was released, champion system didnt exist (the first 2 dungeons designed with cp in mind were ICP and WGT) and character stat pools used to be softcapped.

Like the others have said already, gear cap is cp160 so it's not possible to get something better than that. Cp750 gear doesnt exist. And there's only a few items you can't realistically obtain with your level and dps: perfect vAsylum weapons (only a destruction staff is worth it, though) and perfected versions of vCloudrest sets (the only difference between perfect and regular is extra 1k stamina or magicka).
You can get vMA or vDSA bows, Relequen set etc just like any cp750 guy. Also, stamina buff potions are cheaper than magicka ones, so you're lucky.

P.S. Also, there are cp 750 with 20k or less dps.

That's because dps mostly depends on your rotation.

Elwendryll · July 2018

There is something I don't like about the meta.
When they separated normal and vet dungeons into I and II versions, some veterans discovered mechanics on the I version of the dungeons. Why? Because prior to that, the bosses never lived long enough for the mechanics to show up.

People are just stacking damages to ignore mechanics. I'm fine with dealing a lot of damages, but I don't like the idea of a meta based on getting around the mechanics by burning the bosses down, it feels like cheating.
Let me clarify. Outdpsing the content and getting over the mechanics should be a possibility, but it shouldn't be considered as the norm.

Maybe it's a problem of design.
Maybe it's because since we can put a number on the damages we make, people are eager to see big values for self satisfaction.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the people that take the time to practice to get for instance 40k+ dps are certainly not those who need to clear the dungeons fast because they haven't much time to spend on the game...

I totally understand that people who cleared all the content can afford to drop the survivability to get more dps and get the content done faster. I however don't like how it reflects upon the new players and the expectations toward them. And even the expectations to clear vet dungeons and trials have raised. As far as I know, people are pulling like 20k more dps than when the first clear of vMoL happened.

Agenericname · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

So, after CP 160, no one actually "out gears" the content. Rather, anyone over level 50 can do the vet dungeons, and anyone over CP 300 can do vet DLC dungeons. So you've pretty much only just hit the point of being ready to tackle the vet DLC dungeons. Thats pretty good!

But problem isn't that you are out-geared, its that you feel out-DPSed. At 20k DPS, you've got decent DPS for a vet dungeon. Chances are, those times you get paired with a DD of your level, they are doing less DPS than that. That's why your percentage of the group total is higher. If those CP 750,were pulling 25 to 30k DPS, yeah your percentage is going to drop off,

I suggest you look away from the percentage of damage, because it isn't doing you any favors. Instead, pay more attention to your damage. Are you happy doing 20k DPS or do you want it to be higher? If you want it to be higher, I suggest looking at builds, rotations, and practicing what you need to do to reach higher DPS numbers.

In other words, the problem is not those high CP players doing more DPS and bringing your percentage down. The problem is that the only way for you to increase your DPS is to practice increasing it to the level you desire according to the content you want to run.

Finally, if you really want to run with people your level, I suggest putting together a group in zone chat or your guilds.

I appreciate you post, and this is the approach I've been taking. But the lack of enjoyment doesnt come from having less DPS than a 750, but because when 750s are involved, the content is waayyy to easy, to the point that the mechanics can be abused (dont need to heal or res a lower dps, fake tanks, etc)

When people can run vet dungeons without a tank, can you tell me with a straight face that they are not overgeared?

Also, there are very specific thresholds to reach for a stamblade. It wasnt until around CP300 that I had enough points in penetration (65 i think) to hit the 18.2k buffed. At this point I have very few CP points to allocate elsewhere.

The best solution is typically going to be not PUG. Random dungeon groups are exactly that, random.

If the problem wasn't high level players being able to bypass mechanics by burning through it, it would be low DPS, "fake" roles, non-meta builds, etc. It's always going to be a mixed bag.

Using dungeon finder to find a group is a basic and coarse instrument. You can find one. If you need a fine adjustment, make your own. Form your own group or don't PUG may often sound like cheap advice, and some may even intend for it be that, but it really is a better way to enhance your own game.

SHADOW2KK · July 2018

Inferiority complex much OP?

VaranisArano · July 2018

Elwendryll wrote: »

There is something I don't like about the meta.
When they separated normal and vet dungeons into I and II versions, some veterans discovered mechanics on the I version of the dungeons. Why? Because prior to that, the bosses never lived long enough for the mechanics to show up.

People are just stacking damages to ignore mechanics. I'm fine with dealing a lot of damages, but I don't like the idea of a meta based on getting around the mechanics by burning the bosses down, it feels like cheating.
Let me clarify. Outdpsing the content and getting over the mechanics should be a possibility, but it shouldn't be considered as the norm.

Maybe it's a problem of design.
Maybe it's because since we can put a number on the damages we make, people are eager to see big values for self satisfaction.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the people that take the time to practice to get for instance 40k+ dps are certainly not those who need to clear the dungeons fast because they haven't much time to spend on the game...

I totally understand that people who cleared all the content can afford to drop the survivability to get more dps and get the content done faster. I however don't like how it reflects upon the new players and the expectations toward them. And even the expectations to clear vet dungeons and trials have raised. As far as I know, people are pulling like 20k more dps than when the first clear of vMoL happened.

Its absolutely a design problem, because the devs have always struggled to do mechanics that aren't vulnerable to simply "MOAR DPS!"

The new DLC dungeons are better about this in terms of mechanics you cant ignore. The new Summerset world bosses were well designed to about traditional "stack n burn" tactics. So I have some hope.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

There is something I don't like about the meta.
When they separated normal and vet dungeons into I and II versions, some veterans discovered mechanics on the I version of the dungeons. Why? Because prior to that, the bosses never lived long enough for the mechanics to show up.

People are just stacking damages to ignore mechanics. I'm fine with dealing a lot of damages, but I don't like the idea of a meta based on getting around the mechanics by burning the bosses down, it feels like cheating.
Let me clarify. Outdpsing the content and getting over the mechanics should be a possibility, but it shouldn't be considered as the norm.

Maybe it's a problem of design.
Maybe it's because since we can put a number on the damages we make, people are eager to see big values for self satisfaction.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the people that take the time to practice to get for instance 40k+ dps are certainly not those who need to clear the dungeons fast because they haven't much time to spend on the game...

I totally understand that people who cleared all the content can afford to drop the survivability to get more dps and get the content done faster. I however don't like how it reflects upon the new players and the expectations toward them. And even the expectations to clear vet dungeons and trials have raised. As far as I know, people are pulling like 20k more dps than when the first clear of vMoL happened.

Its absolutely a design problem, because the devs have always struggled to do mechanics that aren't vulnerable to simply "MOAR DPS!"

The new DLC dungeons are better about this in terms of mechanics you cant ignore. The new Summerset world bosses were well designed to about traditional "stack n burn" tactics. So I have some hope.

That's typically any game that has that problem unless it has a hard "you will never do enough dps before this one-shot attack is flying at you 3 times" movement/block/interrupt check. That's also easy to deal with though and inevitably becomes boring.

There is nothing else you can do in video games with pve content, or even pvp really, until the AI is so good that "the game plays you".

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

What kind of gear do you wear? You complain that people are "overgeared" but there is really no 5 piece set that is gated behind extremely difficult content other than the perfected sets or something like maelstrom weapons. Anyways rotation and skills used is more important than gear. If you are feeling like a "useless appendage" maybe you need to change your gear and up your DPS so you don't feel so useless. You're literally asking for others to do less damage to make yourself feel better. I'm not sure what to say about that.

Nope. I have Leviathan and Briarheart, gold weapons. Dont have caltrops yet (wouldnt have sustain to use it without VO anyway). Dont have the VMA bow. Don't pot because I dont need to (there are too many 750s).

There are absolutely very specific gear/setup items that a CP300 will not have compared to a 750.

With pots, caltrops, and if I farmed VO, my DPS would jump a good bit, but that doesnt solve the problem of high CPs ruining content for lower CP players.

Then do it, why not.
And I fail to see why you're unable to use pots if there's a cp750 dd in your group. Are they stealing your pots or something?
If you want 30+k dps, farm vMA bow (you should be able to do so, vMA is designed for cp300 chars), farm Relequen set (in normal Cloudrest), use potions and you'll see a huge dps boost.
It looks like you've got quite an ego, and seeing 60+% dps on your combat metrics will probably grant you peace of mind. Just think about it, you'll be able to brag that you do more dps than a cp750 dd!

AhPook_Is_Here · July 2018

They have ran the combat system through a compressor a few times, with CP as high as it is now maybe its about time for another pass.

I remember one about 2 years ago now when on PTS they had CP uncapped and characters had more than enough CP to max everything, I soloed vet sanctum and vet dragon star, along with a lot of people I knew. CP makes for some real power creep.

LadyNalcarya · July 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

They have ran the combat system through a compressor a few times, with CP as high as it is now maybe its about time for another pass.

I remember one about 2 years ago now when on PTS they had CP uncapped and characters had more than enough CP to max everything, I soloed vet sanctum and vet dragon star, along with a lot of people I knew. CP makes for some real power creep.

1)They reworked cp system since then, nerfed most of the stars, removed cost reduction star etc.
2)Vet SO now and vet SO then are 2 totally different things. They boosted all trials to cp160 since that PTS test.

Raraaku · July 2018

I don't see how you feeling inadequate because you are comparing and contrasting yourself against others should warrant any changes within the game.

98% of my PUG experiences with high-CP DPS players have been great; they help the group run through the dungeon more quickly as well as offer valuable advice and tips to the more inexperienced members. The 2% when that didn't happen, myself and other groupmates tell that player to back off, or we vote kick the toxic player.

If you don't want to PUG, join a guild or find some people you're comfortable running content with and run content with them. But most experienced players love to help out inexperienced players because they've been in the same boat before and are more than willing to answer any questions they might have.

Zardayne · July 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

You're literally asking for others to do less damage to make yourself feel better. I'm not sure what to say about that.

There's a lot of that going around here nowadays