Feanor wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You aren't supposed to run in circles after the other group, flipping flags and never engage. It's not different to the outpost "roleplay". It's painfully obvious this is an exploit.

That said, the IC flags shouldn't count for the campaign ranking and have an AP cooldown, just as resources do. Another job of less than stellar game design.

So, let's say I jump into IC and all the flags are taking by enemies BUT they are all gone back up into Cyrodiil.

I could take the flags without ever engaging, so that would be an exploit to you?

You wouldnt be able to, as the other alliances wouldnt be taking turns taking them off of you.

??? I could just take all the flags without ever engaging, right?

So what makes it an exploit? Flipping the flags OR doing so without ever engaging the enemy?

The exploit is agreeing with the other group - either in chat, over discord or through conclusive action - that you're not going to fight at all but just flip the flag for each other. Is that so hard to get?

No, but it's VERY hard to prove.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You aren't supposed to run in circles after the other group, flipping flags and never engage. It's not different to the outpost "roleplay". It's painfully obvious this is an exploit.

That said, the IC flags shouldn't count for the campaign ranking and have an AP cooldown, just as resources do. Another job of less than stellar game design.

So, let's say I jump into IC and all the flags are taking by enemies BUT they are all gone back up into Cyrodiil.

I could take the flags without ever engaging, so that would be an exploit to you?

You wouldnt be able to, as the other alliances wouldnt be taking turns taking them off of you.

??? I could just take all the flags without ever engaging, right?

So what makes it an exploit? Flipping the flags OR doing so without ever engaging the enemy?

The exploit is agreeing with the other group - either in chat, over discord or through conclusive action - that you're not going to fight at all but just flip the flag for each other. Is that so hard to get?

No, but it's VERY hard to prove.

That's what the Bleakers roleplayers said too. Besides, ZOS isn't subject to law enforcement standards. They can close accounts with whatever reason they find acceptable. You don't own and are enttitled to nothing in ESO.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You aren't supposed to run in circles after the other group, flipping flags and never engage. It's not different to the outpost "roleplay". It's painfully obvious this is an exploit.

That said, the IC flags shouldn't count for the campaign ranking and have an AP cooldown, just as resources do. Another job of less than stellar game design.

So, let's say I jump into IC and all the flags are taking by enemies BUT they are all gone back up into Cyrodiil.

I could take the flags without ever engaging, so that would be an exploit to you?

You wouldnt be able to, as the other alliances wouldnt be taking turns taking them off of you.

??? I could just take all the flags without ever engaging, right?

So what makes it an exploit? Flipping the flags OR doing so without ever engaging the enemy?

You could, but once all 6 flags are your colour you have no more flags to capture. Currently 2 alliances capture behind each other so that there are constnatly flags to take. THAT is the problem

Mureel wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You aren't supposed to run in circles after the other group, flipping flags and never engage. It's not different to the outpost "roleplay". It's painfully obvious this is an exploit.

That said, the IC flags shouldn't count for the campaign ranking and have an AP cooldown, just as resources do. Another job of less than stellar game design.

So, let's say I jump into IC and all the flags are taking by enemies BUT they are all gone back up into Cyrodiil.

I could take the flags without ever engaging, so that would be an exploit to you?

You wouldnt be able to, as the other alliances wouldnt be taking turns taking them off of you.

Really what?! When I solo farm bosses in IC and someone comes and flips the flags, I flip them back as I get there so I get the Telvar bonus!

So what, because some stealthblade runs away or I can't see the person who flipped to kill them, but want my bonus back, I'm exploiting now?!

Whatever.

Stupidest thing I've ever heard, since the only way to get the telvar bonus is to own the flag!

Loads of guilds are in there as group events for the ap event.

Stands to reason there may be different alliance groups.

Find a new drum.

If you saw an enemy, you would kill them, not sitchair whilst they take it to take it back and take turns.

AP trading is bannable, but is this AP trading?

Last night while going after the IC monsters we were also flipping the flags as we went. And behind(or ahead depending on your perspective)2-3 reds or 2-3 blues where also re-flipping the pins. This was not intentional on our part. There was no communication between factions. There was no trading of AP. We attacked them if they attacked us, as there is no reason for 13 players to chase down 2... We also got no where near 500k in an hour, pretty sure I got way less than I would have earned in Cyrodiil as I only got 4 rewards of the worthy in about an hour to an hour and a half.


Last years AP trading was done in keeps/outposts with the doors down. Where 2 or all factions would literally take turns reflipping the pins without fighting. That is quite a bit different than pin flipping in IC. If it's really an issue in IC they could just remove the AP for pin flipping during the rest of the event.

Running in circles taking flags is extremely boring. I was in a group that wanted to go to IC. Before I know it we are running in circles and people are talking about how the blues and the reds are doing the same thing so lets keep going.

I lasted 10 min and left becasue it was very boring.

I do not care that people want to do this.

ZOS please make IC a separate queue from Cyro and add alliance lock.

It had to be expected. All the defenders are like...



It’s Bleakers 2.0 really. When there aren’t bounds on your moral compass everything seems alright.

They promoted the flipping back and forth themselves with the new Midyear Mayhem achievement to kill all the Imperial City bosses.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I was just reading this thread, shaking my head at all the whining about "somebody is getting too much AP from something I could do too but I would rather stop their fun because that is more fun to me", but I had to post a response to this:

Feanor wrote: »

It’s Bleakers 2.0 really. When there aren’t bounds on your moral compass everything seems alright.

Who is it hurting in real life? "Moral compass" my butt.
It doesn't hurt anybody that anybody is doing this and actually helps others whether they are colluding/cooperating or not.
In fact, it shows more of the intended behavior of MMOs than any of the other "every man for himself" solo play and whining I've seen anywhere else.

People are actually grouping and helping each other do content they normally don't do to get cosmetic items they have wanted for a long time but never had before so that everyone can enjoy them, and you want to kill that socializing and cooperation??!!

This is why I solo almost exclusively in MMOs, at least since City of Heroes closed. The "I have to be exclusive and be the only one having any fun" type of people come out in any group environment to make us all dread grouping and kill any fun or cooperation.

The Alliance War and the factions are there for a reason. And it isn’t getting all warm and fuzzy together and game the reward system. Let’s rename the Alliance War to Participation Trophies and Alliance Points to Participation Points. Then we can start handing them out even more generously than now, allow every exploit possible, and even outright cheating. Because, who gets hurt in real life?

Better yet, put every achievement available in game into the crown store also. At least ZOS then takes part financially in people’s attempts to just take the short cut to heaven.

Feanor wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

What I find most funny is - if it were not true, what would @Blobsky gain by bringing it up? It’s not my place to judge his character or his behavior in game - it’s just simple logic that denial doesn’t make any sense. If ZOS takes a look at it and decides everything is fine, well so be it. But there can’t be possibly any harm in bringing this up and urge ZOS to a bit more scrutiny.

Well then let ZOS decide and for people to stop:


Over inflating numbers;

Calling it an exploit when your word means nothing. ZOS labels what is and what is not an exploit;

Dictating on how people play.


When people randomly throw out numbers with no evidence to back it up, my respect for them goes majorly downhill and devalues what they are stating.

It’s a sensitive topic after Bleakers happened. And the arguments brought up in defense in this thread alone are astonishingly similar. I would have permabanned everyone involved in Bleakers and Black Boot Farm last year. And not revoked it. Sadly that didn’t happen. It’s why everyone thinks you can get away with everything if you invent a stupid excuse.

Being a sensitive topic does not change my 3 points in quote.

Additionally i would permabann the flipping also and i would permabann any exploiting that was clearly done. This is the only way to achieve a decent gaming environment.

Black boot and Bleakers flipping got temp suspensions and kept the profits, the ones i know of personally so i talk on facts. This didn't discourage exploiting in the least. CE users got accounts back after crying to ZOS. Vice cannon exploiters nothing was done. The list goes on and on after 3 years.

Like i originally stated, i have come to accept the reality of this so no longer angry/disheartened when i see this happening, it is the ESO way. ESO is not competitive. Name an achievement or title and i can off the cuff tell you how it has been exploited before so using the argument people are getting AP's and ranks by putting little effort in is weak.

Until ZOS comments on this, bloating the numbers and stating it is an exploit is unnecessary. Also dictating how people are supposed to play, in any environment, is foolish in my eyes.

This flipping IC flags is such a grey area, the way i see it, that is cannot be enforced without getting some players who didn't realise/know caught up in it which is nonconstructive.

EDIT: Since any post debating this issue is being removed it will be my last post here. Obviously inflating numbers and calling people exploiters when ZOS has yet to comment on is the way forward it is a waste of time.

TequilaFire wrote: »

Well if this is an exploit so is grinding Skyreach and overland mobs over and over again.
You have three alliance grinding content in IC of course the flags are going to flip a lot.
They are not cooperating with each other, it is how the game is played.

Yeah that’s what the Bleakers RPers said too. The difference is: Skyreach and overland is PvE. You’re supposed to be able to do that repeatedly and on your own. A PvP setting relies on players actually fighting players. Otherwise we’d call it PvE with another currency tacked on.