Don't let this be yet another PTS with zero Race balancing

SodanTok · July 2018

Just make racial passives less impactful and all will be fine. Let redguard be the best damage/sustain race by having 1% max stam and 70stam every 5s while khajiit gets 1% crit chance.

Let argonian be best sustain/healing race by getting 400 resources every pot use and having 1% healing received/done

Twohothardware · July 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

I was really disappointed in bretons, lorewise they are supposed to be ideal spellswords. One would assume they'd get passives to reflect that, so they are the go to race if you want to switch between mag and stamp dps on the fly, but no it had to be another one way ticket.
I mean it wouldn't even be that hard give them max stamp/mag and cost reduction for both.
Redguard and high elf would still be top dog.

Yeah I'd like to see Breton made more like Dark Elf as a strong go-between Race because the only two in the game that really fit that role are both on Ebonheart with Dark Elf and Argonian.

SodanTok wrote: »

Just make racial passives less impactful and all will be fine. Let redguard be the best damage/sustain race by having 1% max stam and 70stam every 5s while khajiit gets 1% crit chance.

Let argonian be best sustain/healing race by getting 400 resources every pot use and having 1% healing received/done

There wouldn't be a point in Racial passives at all if they were that minor. They just need to leave Redguard and Argonian where they are as they should be the benchmark of what a solid feeling competitive Race should be like and go in and add some more substantial passives to the other Races.

They need to just entirely get rid of Racial passives like 20% Health Recovery and bonus damage in stealth that have no benefit to you unless you run Troll King or play as a Nightblade. Nobody runs Health Recovery focused sets in the game outside of that one Monster Set because they're just not effective and there are 5 Classes in the game so why do we have two races, Khajiit and Wood Elf, that both have Racial passives which do nothing for the other 4 Classes in the game.

Twohothardware · July 2018

Delete

Twohothardware · July 2018

Delete

Twohothardware · July 2018

Bump

hakan · July 2018

my stamblade dunmer disagrees with removal of 6 stam

i dont agree with most of the comments and suggestions . They look too bland.

kaithuzar · July 2018

I’ve been a high elf since launch. Considered heavily swapping to dunmer or Breton but didn’t.
I would never go Argonian even though it’s OP on my main (magblade), I just like the human/elf look.

If dunmer or Breton got a buff I would definitely race change, if for no other reason, a change of pace.

CurvedSwords123 · July 2018

Leave Redguard as is. Argonian sustain is over tuned in a lot of ppls minds, still don't want them to have a nerf. That being said, if u are going to give the other races more sustain, you would either have to give Redguard & Argonian either some damage or defense goodies.

Maryal · July 2018

Many of us chose our character's race because of the racial passives. We understood coming into this game how important character creation was (usually as a result of previous gaming experience), and this includes choosing a race based on racial passives (not esthetics). We understood that the set of racial passives we chose needed to synergize with the class we wanted to play, and both of those things needed to synergize with our particular play style.
Keep in mind that for many of us, developing our main character has been a significant investment of our time (and I'm talking years).

I'm sorry for those who made a 'less than optimal choice.' As gamers, we all have lessons learned 'the hard way' ... while these 'lessons' suck at the time, we do learn from them. As much as some of you may not want to hear it, maybe this is one of those 'gamer lessons' you need to learn as well, and in the long run, you will be better off for it.

For those who regret their choice of race because they are unhappy with their racial passives, you can always purchase a race change token from the crown store.

That being said, I do realize that racial passives, on very rare occasion, do get tweeked, but it has nothing to do with 'flavor of the month meta.' The 'meta' is always changing ... and because of that, the desire to have 'this or that' set of racial passives changes as well ... something totally expected and totally normal ... and NOT a reason to change racial passives.

John_Falstaff · July 2018

@Maryal , it's a roleplaying game first and foremost. If lesson I have to learn is to choose not the race I like, but race that gives me max stats - well, it's a poor man's game. I won't be better off playing a character I don't associate myself with, no matter how successful it can make myself at hitting higher leaderboard scores. I don't feel that people who played their character for years after choosing race for passives, should keep status quo, while people who did the same after choosing race because they like it, should be stuck in limbo. One thing worse than ever-changing meta is the neverending frozen meta that makes everyone a Redguard or Dunmer just for stats' sake.

Maryal · July 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maryal , it's a roleplaying game first and foremost. If lesson I have to learn is to choose not the race I like, but race that gives me max stats - well, it's a poor man's game. I won't be better off playing a character I don't associate myself with, no matter how successful it can make myself at hitting higher leaderboard scores. I don't feel that people who played their character for years after choosing race for passives, should keep status quo, while people who did the same after choosing race because they like it, should be stuck in limbo. One thing worse than ever-changing meta is the neverending frozen meta that makes everyone a Redguard or Dunmer just for stats' sake.

Yes! This IS a game! And, as a game, there is an element of strategy involved. You can't strategize 'in the dark' ... it requires a level of skill, knowledge and experience ... the more you have of those things the better you can strategize ... the better your in-game decisions will be (generally speaking).

The status quo of the game IS constantly changing - for new players as well as seasoned players. It changes when armor sets are modified, it changes when new armor sets are introduced, it changes when game mechanics change, it changes when skills/abilities are changed (or new ones introduced), it changes when NPC mechanics change, etc.

There are casual players who are perfectly happy with ESO's vanilla content. In fact, a person doesn't even need to spend skill points on their racial passives just to play vanilla content. So, if you are having issues, I take it that you are more than just a casual player engaging in vanilla ESO content. If that's the case, then what you really need is experience ... and that means having the mental fortitude it takes to make a lot of mistakes and die a lot in the process.

Keep in mind that experienced gamers (who learn from the 'school-of-hard-knocks') don't start out that way ... they start out as noobs like every one else and make tons of mistakes along the way and they don't mind leveling-up their 'OMG I died again skill' early on. With regard to your 'max stats' comment - I never said anything about choosing a race that gave you 'max stats.' While 'max stats' might make someone with 'less than average skills' not suck so much, it won't make them a good player.

'Max stats' can help carry an under-level character to max level. Once you are at max level, as you gain more and more experience/knowledge/skill the less important 'max stats' become ... that is unless you are looking to join the top 1% of the player base ... which, most of us aren't.

John_Falstaff · July 2018

@Maryal , then I'm not sure if I managed to understand your point from before. My point is, people don't want to change racials because they want to follow meta. If it was the case, sure, they could just get a race change token. My point was, there is a conflict between staying true to oneself (why, people want to play nord sorcerers, they want to tank but like to see themselves as a bosmer, and so on and so forth), and being denied the progress in game by their passives. Because passives do matter - not being a redguard costs one regen glyph and loss of damage, it's a hard reality. To add insult to injury, having wrong passives costs getting heat from caustic meta-minded people, when someone goes as a bosmer tank in a trial, and people on voice chat giggle and ridicule that person (not a mental experiment, I'm talking from experience, I was sitting and listening all that). Skill isn't all that matters, and people with 'wrong race' are under constant pressure: if they want to progress as game achievements go, they're pressured towards dulling down their game and playing race they don't like.

I know it's not the only game like that, and not the latest trend. People playing chess are forced to give up on openings they enjoy if they want to play in higher leagues. But it doesn't mean that in case of ESO, we can't fix at least some things (by, say, detaching passives from actual race and call it 'upbringing' package, 'background' or something like that). That way, people who like having fur and claws won't fear of being ridiculed if they'll decide to be magicka sort of character. I think freedom of choice makes the game so much more worth playing.

IZZEFlameLash · July 2018

Stop trying to nerf Argonians. It's a game and in game, as in life, you will sometimes have to make a choice you don't like if it means you will be better off in the long run. I do not run Argonian on nearly all classes but I do not want to see them being so useless again because of ZOS' nerf.

Twohothardware · July 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Stop trying to nerf Argonians. It's a game and in game, as in life, you will sometimes have to make a choice you don't like if it means you will be better off in the long run. I do not run Argonian on nearly all classes but I do not want to see them being so useless again because of ZOS' nerf.

Last sentence in first post says I'm not looking for nerfs to Argonian or Redguard even though they are currently way overperforming. Other Races like Nord, Breton, and Khajiit just need to be buffed to their level.

Mystrius_Archaion · July 2018

Just remove racial passives so that anybody can choose any race they want without either being less effective or being accused of being "flavor of the month" crap.

This is supposed to be a game about "Character Progression: Be who you want to be"(click for link) which racial passives encouraging a specific race for a specific build are not, and makes it much harder to change builds with updates or different ideas and desires.

It is long past time that racial passives were rebalanced into oblivion and removed.

Maryal · July 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maryal , then I'm not sure if I managed to understand your point from before. My point is, people don't want to change racials because they want to follow meta. If it was the case, sure, they could just get a race change token. My point was, there is a conflict between staying true to oneself (why, people want to play nord sorcerers, they want to tank but like to see themselves as a bosmer, and so on and so forth), and being denied the progress in game by their passives. Because passives do matter - not being a redguard costs one regen glyph and loss of damage, it's a hard reality. To add insult to injury, having wrong passives costs getting heat from caustic meta-minded people, when someone goes as a bosmer tank in a trial, and people on voice chat giggle and ridicule that person (not a mental experiment, I'm talking from experience, I was sitting and listening all that). Skill isn't all that matters, and people with 'wrong race' are under constant pressure: if they want to progress as game achievements go, they're pressured towards dulling down their game and playing race they don't like.

I know it's not the only game like that, and not the latest trend. People playing chess are forced to give up on openings they enjoy if they want to play in higher leagues. But it doesn't mean that in case of ESO, we can't fix at least some things (by, say, detaching passives from actual race and call it 'upbringing' package, 'background' or something like that). That way, people who like having fur and claws won't fear of being ridiculed if they'll decide to be magicka sort of character. I think freedom of choice makes the game so much more worth playing.

While it may be true that some people don't want racial passives to change in order to 'follow the meta', it is equally true that others don't want racial passives to change because their character's racial passives are so integrated into how they have developed and play their character from an RP standpoint. And, it is equally as true that some players don't want racial passives to change because, for them, 'how' they play the game is more limited, they chose their race based on the set racial passives that best suited how they were able to play the game.

For example, some people are limited in the type of character they can play in games. For medical reasons, some people need to avoid playing games that have more than a nominal amount of flashy/flickering lights. For them, pve'ing as a stealthy NB thief (who prefers to avoid fights) is something they can do and enjoy. Because of their medical condition, they avoid pvp, they don't play magica based characters, nor do they fight against magica based characters. For them, the wood-elf passives have been a big help in allowing them to play a fulfilling role, RP'ing as a stealthy NB thief.

Another thing to consider is that our racial passives are, for the most part, rooted in Elder Scrolls lore. A lot of us came to ESO because of our love of the Elder Scrolls games. The Elder Scrolls franchise is drenched in lore (for those who care to learn about it). Lore that is 'cannon' is consistent across all the ES games (note: not everything we call lore is cannon). ES races as well as each race's 'core racial passives' are * rooted in ES history (lore).

* 'Rooted in' - developed by using something as a basis

A few years back each race got 1'flavor-passive' added to their core racial passives ('flavor is what it was referred to back then). Flavor-passives are pretty weak by design. They were added to give a little uniqueness to each class while at the same time providing little, if any, impact on actual gameplay. Some of these 'flavor passives' included wood elf - decreased damage when falling from heights, another passive (I can't remember the race) was 1% additional AP gain, another one was enhanced swimming speed. I can't remember them all and I'm too tired to go through the laborious 'forum search' process to find which patch notes they are in.

Also worth noting: some of these 'flavor-passives' are rooted in ES lore and some are not (but even when a flavor passive is not rooted in ES lore, it doesn't conflict with it either)

Extricating racial passives from the races wouldn't make sense in this game ... racial passives are too intertwined with the history of the races, their culture, and the lore of that forms the basis of all the Elder Scrolls games.

ZarkingFrued · August 2018

Well.. you have the option to choose whatever race you want and pair that with your class of choice. Dont nerf races at least. Just buff the irrelevant ones. If everyone got every nerf they called for this game would suck. Pve is already pointless unless you rune the exact same vet trials and select few vet dungeons over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.. why is it that pve people play ESO again?

DoobZ69 · August 2018

Races are perfectly balanced.
It only takes $30 and making peace with playing a race you can't stand to finally come to that conclusion.