Make Dizzying Swing and Wrecking Blow competitive and get rid of the cast time

Twohothardware · July 2018

The cast time on these Two Handed skills make them incredibly non-competitive against instant cast skills like Surprise Attack and especially against bleed builds. Dizzying Swing / Wrecking Blow are very easy to roll dodge, block, CC the person, or just move behind the player causing it to miss because you have to stay on target through the full channel cast. The skill becomes even clunkier during lag in Cyrodiil resulting in the channel hanging for longer than usual at times during the cast.

The best change would be to lower the damage 10-15% or whatever and make it instant cast. Then get rid of the new Empower buff which only increases light attack damage on Wrecking Blow and give it something more in line with the name like setting players off balance. Wrecking Blow could then synergize with CP and sets that give bonuses to off balance targets.

usmcjdking · July 2018

I'm a fan of the cast time, TBH. Gives the skill some real weight and makes it much more satisfying to use.

Narvuntien · July 2018

Dizzying swing must keep the cast time.

Wrecking blow perhaps not.

I think perhaps the animation in general, particularly the end of the animation could be cleaned up. Needs better flow into other abilities. Its one of the most animation cancelled abilities.

olsborg · July 2018

Nerf animation cancel as best ZOS can and WB/DS might be more competetive.

Mureel · July 2018

Lol!

Ragnarock41 · July 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm a fan of the cast time, TBH. Gives the skill some real weight and makes it much more satisfying to use.

a.k.a. keep WB useless. meh.

Stibbons · July 2018

It hits like a truck and it is cheap. It has cast time. So what.

Ragnarock41 · July 2018

Stibbons wrote: »

It hits like a truck and it is cheap. It has cast time. So what.

Its the easiest spammable to counter in the entire game, doesn't even function with lag, can literally be cancelled by walking into the caster.
Dizzying swing is fine, but wrecking blow is not.

Skoomah · July 2018

Dizzy swing is Garbage. Make it instant cast.

kaithuzar · July 2018

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Twohothardware · July 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Jabs is one of the hardest to counter. It's undodgeable and a 70% snare on final hit. Why Stamplar does well in dueling tournaments.

Twohothardware · July 2018

Stibbons wrote: »

It hits like a truck and it is cheap. It has cast time. So what.

The damage isn't all that much higher than Surprise Attack which applies Major Fracture at the same time. But it doesn't matter how hard it hits if you miss and it's really easy to dodge by rolling, using Shuffle, or just going circles around the guy with major expedition since the dizzying swing caster has to track you and stay on target through the full cast.

templesus · July 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Jabs is one of the hardest to counter. It's undodgeable and a 70% snare on final hit. Why Stamplar does well in dueling tournaments.

I can’t believe you just generalized the entire ability based on duels.

Jabs is horrendous in cyrodiil. Try it out sometime.

Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

Taleof2Cities · July 2018

Look!

Another @Twohothardware “buff my playstyle” thread!

Feanor · July 2018

Yes Jabs is really bad. It doesn’t even hit once if the opponent moves just a bit or even walks by.

Ragnarock41 · July 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Not when jabs work properly. Not denying it has its own share of issues, but when it comes to counterplay, I would much rather facing a d.swing user than a stamplar spamming jabs on me. If you think duking it out with a stamplar is a good idea, you sir are suicidal for sure I would say.

(Stamplar has many issues similar to stamDk, but the class can still pack a strong punch in the end. I just kinda feel sad that in 4 years, they still haven't managed to fix stamplar properly, that its still the same mess I left years ago.)

JohnOfMarkarth · July 2018

templesus wrote: »

[quote="Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

Aaam sorry what... NO gameplay feature should never be used for claims or arguments. As it is indeed still part of the result... Else people could claim any other thing not to be viable for arguing cause "It does not support my perosnal agenda".

Thats not to say jabs are great.
No... but thats to say that what ye claim is just... bs. "dueling does not matter. muh. cyrodiil" my response would be "Pvp is cancer of ESO, muh pve" so its not a fair claim.

templesus · July 2018

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

[quote="Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

Aaam sorry what... NO gameplay feature should never be used for claims or arguments. As it is indeed still part of the result... Else people could claim any other thing not to be viable for arguing cause "It does not support my perosnal agenda".

Thats not to say jabs are great.
No... but thats to say that what ye claim is just... bs. "dueling does not matter. muh. cyrodiil" my response would be "Pvp is cancer of ESO, muh pve" so its not a fair claim.

I can’t even dignify what I just read with a true response.

Strider__Roshin · July 2018

I think Jabs are a fantastic spammable. I gave up playing stamplar years ago because of their stupid defense rune, and I couldn't stand how handicapped I felt using Chuden. I'm looking forward to playing one again next patch with the Rune change.

But yeah uppercut is a garbage. Make it an instant cast and I'll gladly play with Warden, stamsorc, and DK again.

Thogard · July 2018

We need skills that are stronger than usual but are easily countered / hard to land.

They already gutted frags. Let’s not make dizzy swing a skillless skill too.

exeeter702 · July 2018

Uppercut is incredibly frustrating to use on competent players to be sure. I personally dont like using it, especially o console without a cast bar to show when the cast breaks due to range or facing changes, however i do feel like there still needs to be execution heavy abiities that have a higher payoff. There are enough alternatives for any class if you want to avoid uppercut.

Brrrofski · July 2018

Yeh, it's hard to use against a good player.

I'd be ok with no or hugely reduced cast time - but the damage would need to be adjusted.

templesus · July 2018

This brings up an interesting topic for debate...what if they gave dizzying the old frag treatment? Gave it a proc chance that would do more damage and be instant?

exeeter702 · July 2018

templesus wrote: »

This brings up an interesting topic for debate...what if they gave dizzying the old frag treatment? Gave it a proc chance that would do more damage and be instant?

Well, the thing with frags is that while the proc converts frags into an instant cast, it is still a projectile of which you can react to due to its trajectory. If you were to give this treatment to uppercut, the visual indicator for the instant cast uppercut buff would have to be very clear for other players to see and have an internal CD governing how frequent the proc can occur. With those caveats i could get behind that idea.

Twohothardware · July 2018

templesus wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Jabs is one of the hardest to counter. It's undodgeable and a 70% snare on final hit. Why Stamplar does well in dueling tournaments.

I can’t believe you just generalized the entire ability based on duels.

Jabs is horrendous in cyrodiil. Try it out sometime.

Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpF4k4A1coU

He's on the same platform as you.

The problems with Stamplar in Cyrodiil is terrible sustain and no defence like a Wardens Shimmering Shield. Jabs behaves like any other skill that doesn't require a target to activate. If your lagging you'll have a bad time with it.

brandonv516 · July 2018

Wonder how DS/WB look with:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Blood+Moon+Set

HankTwo · July 2018

Uppercut and it's morphs shouldn't get cancelled just because the enemy player walks into you. Imo, as long as the skill doesn't get dodged it should always hit unless the opponent gets behind a wall/object or out of the 7 meter range.

Additionally, wrecking blow is in need of a rework, since the empower change left it a state that is not viable at all. However, dizzying swing shouldn't have the cast time removed because high damage + instant cast + hard cc would be too strong.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · July 2018

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

[quote="Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

Aaam sorry what... NO gameplay feature should never be used for claims or arguments. As it is indeed still part of the result... Else people could claim any other thing not to be viable for arguing cause "It does not support my perosnal agenda".

Thats not to say jabs are great.
No... but thats to say that what ye claim is just... bs. "dueling does not matter. muh. cyrodiil" my response would be "Pvp is cancer of ESO, muh pve" so its not a fair claim.

Dual may be a part of Thebes game but it’s a pvp fight where you know 100% that it’s just a 1vs1 then is not how PvP or PvE works. Powers that are useless in PvP or PvE can be golden in Duals. As no other content PvP or PvE can just do a 1vs1, you can’t take dual results as valid.

Nyladreas · July 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

The cast time on these Two Handed skills make them incredibly non-competitive against instant cast skills like Surprise Attack and especially against bleed builds. Dizzying Swing / Wrecking Blow are very easy to roll dodge, block, CC the person, or just move behind the player causing it to miss because you have to stay on target through the full channel cast. The skill becomes even clunkier during lag in Cyrodiil resulting in the channel hanging for longer than usual at times during the cast.

The best change would be to lower the damage 10-15% or whatever and make it instant cast. Then get rid of the new Empower buff which only increases light attack damage on Wrecking Blow and give it something more in line with the name like setting players off balance. Wrecking Blow could then synergize with CP and sets that give bonuses to off balance targets.

Nah give everything a cast time. Even buffs

Ragnarock41 · July 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Wonder how DS/WB look with:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Blood+Moon+Set

I don't think this applies to cast time abilities.

templesus · July 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought jabs was the easiest spammable to counter o.O
#sidestep

Jabs is one of the hardest to counter. It's undodgeable and a 70% snare on final hit. Why Stamplar does well in dueling tournaments.

I can’t believe you just generalized the entire ability based on duels.

Jabs is horrendous in cyrodiil. Try it out sometime.

Dueling should never be used as basis for claims/arguments, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpF4k4A1coU

He's on the same platform as you.

The problems with Stamplar in Cyrodiil is terrible sustain and no defence like a Wardens Shimmering Shield. Jabs behaves like any other skill that doesn't require a target to activate. If your lagging you'll have a bad time with it.

That video just proves my point lol, I see multiple times in it Dove missed Jabs because of the clunkiest of the locked in directional jab rather then a true cone, along with lag.