is this what we deserve?

tuxon · July 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

the cosmetic stuff is awesome but being so much money to buy it kindve sucks. what we deserve is fairly priced items and this stuff is not fairly priced.

Well said!

tuxon · July 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

tuxon wrote: »

I was calm first time I heard about "crown riding lessons" even I believe the mount speed/stamina/capacity should be account wide.

I choose to be amused about the riding lessons. In an "I pity the fool who pays real money for something they can just as well play for with a little more patience"...
Of course, I also do not subscribe to the "all should be account wide because we deserve anything we earned on our main for no extra effort on our alts as well!" foolishness either...

tuxon wrote: »

Then motifs in loot boxes and outfit slots only for 1 char. Come on I spent 1.500 crowns fot item which according to every aspect of logic should be account wide, but instead I got only +1 slot for 1 char.

I have no issue with motivs in loot boxes.
The outfit slot though...
...that is an issue.
Comparable games I played had an outfit slot equivalent for somewhere around... 250 crowns I suppose? Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, but rather cheap. ESO... eh.
At 1500 crowns, I -would- say it ought to be account wide. And i wish they gave everyone who shelled that out for one of their characters the slot account wide, and sold any individual slots for 250 crowns instead. Well, or better yet, 2 slots for 500 - let people go wild with outfits, that makes them chase the motivs more...

Similat with the crown store motivs. Thuse are a bit too pricey for a single character thing... wish they had made it so that paying those once allows you to draw as many character-bound copies of the style book as you want, to learn it on every character; not in the least so that if ever you want to redo one character, you are not bound by "Oh, no, I cannot delete that one, I learned that crown motiv..."

tuxon wrote: »

But what I really wanted to talk about is current situation with monster styles/outfits...

Eh.
Yeah, I can see those being vexing, but... eh.

I can see how they would want to make a nice profit from monster weapons.
I can see how they might make a hefty grind for the outfit motivs.

The only thing that vexes me is the time limit...

Personally, I hope that at -some- later date (when something else is the newest thing all the epeen players -must- have) they might make the rare monster stuff grind -permanent-, but for ALL motiv options - shoulder, helmet, weapons... and add the armor pieces to the crownstore pack, treating it exactly the same as crown store motiv books. As in, you can buy them, or you can grindgrindgrind until you get what you want...

Thanks for your thoughts. Good points. I totally agree about outfits...

Gnortranermara · July 2018

From what I've seen so far, the drop rate for the head style seems to be between 1 in 5 to 1 in 15. That's not terribly grindy. That's probably the least grindy thing ZOS has ever done.

I mean, compare it to the monster trophy achievements. The last one I needed was the Buzzing Spine. It took me hours upon hours to get it, just to unlock a stupid dye color. I gained 3 champion points grinding wamasus. I leveled Dawnbreaker of Smiting from 0 to 4. I killed 2000-3000 wamasus, one at a time. THAT is a grind. A dozen runs in COH1 is about the same as looking for a full set of Ebon or Lich in the right traits. It's nothing.

Nyladreas · July 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

So much whining for something purely cosmetic. Don't like it? Don't buy/farm it. There's no achievement for it. ZOS should look at other performance stuff which actually hurt gameplay and not stupid "fashion & less work for me please topics" you mention.

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem at all. Cosmetics are a big part of the game for a lot of players and this represents a problem to them.
Yeah it's not required, but so is playing the game in the first place.
ESO has a wide range of players who enjoy different aspects of the game and none of them should be treated unfairly in their respective context.

You are missing the point. People paid for the game and they have all the content (or ability to acquire) all the content in said game. Anything additional is up to the individual player if they want to purchase. Sounds like these monster weapon styles aren't worth it for you, so don't buy them. This is such a simple problem.

No you are missing the point, why do you think so many people complained about jewellery crafting being locked behind summerset, it's an aspect of the game locked behind a paywall, a gameplay feature in this case. The illambris pack is a cosmetic feature, also locked behind a pay wall. But there is not only summerset l, morrowind, dungeon Dlcs, and story expansions.
Endgame in the Base game is laughable by today's standards.
If you want Bis you need to buy.
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with supporting the game I like trough little transactions like these it just feels like the customer is no longer their concern.
There is missing balance, game breaking bugs and a lot of miscommunication,all the while they continue to dish out cosmetics costing a third of the price of the Base game.

What is BiS that you need to buy? You are completely wrong. Jewelry crafting is a new addition to the game and part of the new Chapter, so you have to buy it, so what? I haven't seen a single build where you HAVE to craft jewelry. In fact, most of the best gear for trials and such are dropped IN trials.

I'm not missing the point at all. You want things to be cheaper and/or free, except that's not how the world works. I'll say it for the 1000th time...if this stuff isn't worth it to you, don't buy it. If it is worth it to you, then buy it. What in holy *** is so complicated about that concept? If enough people agree with you that they are charging too much, people will stop buying and they will be forced to lower the price. Clearly that isn't the case, though, so stop complaining.

Sirroria and relequen are bis, vma weapons, war machine and so on.

sirorias actually isnt bis its actually useless in trials you have to move alot in(which cloudrest and as you have to move alot and hof as well as mol) relequen is interchangeable with other sets, and vma weapons fell off the map as bis when the 2 handed patch went through and war machine is so situational to the point its not really often used.

Try to run a stambuild without a vma bow and relequen is not interchangeable if you want Bis.
I agree on sirroria though. Still bis in a lot of trials

vMA bow isn't even really that strong. I was disappointed when I finally got it. People give it wayyyy too much credit.

DanteYoda · July 2018

Corporations like Zos are insanely greedy and honestly many of us enable them to be like this.. We are mostly to blame.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Corporations like Zos are insanely greedy and honestly many of us enable them to be like this...

...and yet, that "greed" is what makes them create games like ESO!

Without that "greed" what great computrer games would we get to play all day? Tetris? No wonder people in soviet russia needed large amounbts of vodka to make it through the day...

Okay, newsflash. Companies don't exist to make good games, they exist to make money.
Making good games is just the way some companies choose to go about making money. Then they spend the money they make to keep the game running, pay the server upkeep and their developers salaries to add more content so they can make even more money.
If they at some point stop making money from a game... they pull the plugs on the servers, pinkslip the developers and sell off the assets.

We may not like it, but we have to live with things how they are, not how we'd like them to be, yes? And at least we get good games from those "greedy" corporations, yes?

As such... I have no problem putting my money where my mouth is, pay my subscription and spend in the crown store now and then to make them money from ESO for a while yet, so I can keep enjoying playing the game...

Sergykid · July 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

[...] Companies don't exist to make good games, they exist to make money.

here dreaming for a game made by a company that exists to make a good game

ZOS_Ragnar · July 2018

We have once again had to remove several comments from this thread. Please ensure your posts remain civil and constructive.

griffkhalifa · July 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

the cosmetic stuff is awesome but being so much money to buy it kindve sucks. what we deserve is fairly priced items and this stuff is not fairly priced.

I'm triggered. You "deserve" fairly priced items in the Crown Store? What does that even mean. And who determines what is "fairly priced"? The consumer does by either buying it or not buying it.

i work in retail and fairly priced tends to be actually worth the money is it worth having to spend 30$ on crowns when all i need is 25$? just think we should be able to buy crowns equal to these amounts and not have to spend more than i have to. that is fair pricing.

See here's the problem: you don't HAVE to spend money on crowns. For the 1001st time: if it's worth it to you buy it, if it isn't, don't.

griffkhalifa · July 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

So much whining for something purely cosmetic. Don't like it? Don't buy/farm it. There's no achievement for it. ZOS should look at other performance stuff which actually hurt gameplay and not stupid "fashion & less work for me please topics" you mention.

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem at all. Cosmetics are a big part of the game for a lot of players and this represents a problem to them.
Yeah it's not required, but so is playing the game in the first place.
ESO has a wide range of players who enjoy different aspects of the game and none of them should be treated unfairly in their respective context.

You are missing the point. People paid for the game and they have all the content (or ability to acquire) all the content in said game. Anything additional is up to the individual player if they want to purchase. Sounds like these monster weapon styles aren't worth it for you, so don't buy them. This is such a simple problem.

No you are missing the point, why do you think so many people complained about jewellery crafting being locked behind summerset, it's an aspect of the game locked behind a paywall, a gameplay feature in this case. The illambris pack is a cosmetic feature, also locked behind a pay wall. But there is not only summerset l, morrowind, dungeon Dlcs, and story expansions.
Endgame in the Base game is laughable by today's standards.
If you want Bis you need to buy.
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with supporting the game I like trough little transactions like these it just feels like the customer is no longer their concern.
There is missing balance, game breaking bugs and a lot of miscommunication,all the while they continue to dish out cosmetics costing a third of the price of the Base game.

What is BiS that you need to buy? You are completely wrong. Jewelry crafting is a new addition to the game and part of the new Chapter, so you have to buy it, so what? I haven't seen a single build where you HAVE to craft jewelry. In fact, most of the best gear for trials and such are dropped IN trials.

I'm not missing the point at all. You want things to be cheaper and/or free, except that's not how the world works. I'll say it for the 1000th time...if this stuff isn't worth it to you, don't buy it. If it is worth it to you, then buy it. What in holy *** is so complicated about that concept? If enough people agree with you that they are charging too much, people will stop buying and they will be forced to lower the price. Clearly that isn't the case, though, so stop complaining.

Sirroria and relequen are bis, vma weapons, war machine and so on.

Ok so to be clear: you're against the company adding any new sets along with paid content? That's what you're implying here. So everything should just be free and the employees at ZOS should feed their kids with your goodwill for giving free sets and content. Got it.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

[...] Companies don't exist to make good games, they exist to make money.

here dreaming for a game made by a company that exists to make a good game

Problem is, companies that exist to make good games usually have little money to invest. And sadly, no matter how good a game might be, if its so cheaply made that its painful to play and fails at immersion, well... it will be overlooked and forgotten.

All we can hope for is companies who exist to make money hiring developers who consider it a point of pride to make good games as well. I think ESO isn't half bad in that regard...

griffkhalifa wrote: »

For the 1001st time: if it's worth it to you buy it, if it isn't, don't.

...and really, that's all anyone really needs to hear about this.

Adernath · July 2018

Hulda wrote: »

So much whining for something purely cosmetic. Don't like it? Don't buy/farm it. There's no achievement for it. ZOS should look at other performance stuff which actually hurt gameplay and not stupid "fashion & less work for me please topics" you mention.

And here is another one who has no idea that cosmetics are the bred and butter of every modern MMO.

TheCyberDruid · July 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Problem is, companies that exist to make good games usually have little money to invest. And sadly, no matter how good a game might be, if its so cheaply made that its painful to play and fails at immersion, well... it will be overlooked and forgotten.

You should really play Witcher 3 and Stardew Valley then. Stardew Valley gets a multiplayer update for free (which is already in beta) and Witcher 3 only charged you for two bigger DLC while the rest was for free. It's not like ESO exists in a vacuum where it's the only game ever made. There are (still) companies out there making good games for the sake of making good games and they make a living that way. We tend to forget that it has been like that for quite a while before it changed.

DuskMarine · July 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

Hulda wrote: »

So much whining for something purely cosmetic. Don't like it? Don't buy/farm it. There's no achievement for it. ZOS should look at other performance stuff which actually hurt gameplay and not stupid "fashion & less work for me please topics" you mention.

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem at all. Cosmetics are a big part of the game for a lot of players and this represents a problem to them.
Yeah it's not required, but so is playing the game in the first place.
ESO has a wide range of players who enjoy different aspects of the game and none of them should be treated unfairly in their respective context.

You are missing the point. People paid for the game and they have all the content (or ability to acquire) all the content in said game. Anything additional is up to the individual player if they want to purchase. Sounds like these monster weapon styles aren't worth it for you, so don't buy them. This is such a simple problem.

No you are missing the point, why do you think so many people complained about jewellery crafting being locked behind summerset, it's an aspect of the game locked behind a paywall, a gameplay feature in this case. The illambris pack is a cosmetic feature, also locked behind a pay wall. But there is not only summerset l, morrowind, dungeon Dlcs, and story expansions.
Endgame in the Base game is laughable by today's standards.
If you want Bis you need to buy.
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with supporting the game I like trough little transactions like these it just feels like the customer is no longer their concern.
There is missing balance, game breaking bugs and a lot of miscommunication,all the while they continue to dish out cosmetics costing a third of the price of the Base game.

What is BiS that you need to buy? You are completely wrong. Jewelry crafting is a new addition to the game and part of the new Chapter, so you have to buy it, so what? I haven't seen a single build where you HAVE to craft jewelry. In fact, most of the best gear for trials and such are dropped IN trials.

I'm not missing the point at all. You want things to be cheaper and/or free, except that's not how the world works. I'll say it for the 1000th time...if this stuff isn't worth it to you, don't buy it. If it is worth it to you, then buy it. What in holy *** is so complicated about that concept? If enough people agree with you that they are charging too much, people will stop buying and they will be forced to lower the price. Clearly that isn't the case, though, so stop complaining.

Sirroria and relequen are bis, vma weapons, war machine and so on.

sirorias actually isnt bis its actually useless in trials you have to move alot in(which cloudrest and as you have to move alot and hof as well as mol) relequen is interchangeable with other sets, and vma weapons fell off the map as bis when the 2 handed patch went through and war machine is so situational to the point its not really often used.

Try to run a stambuild without a vma bow and relequen is not interchangeable if you want Bis.
I agree on sirroria though. Still bis in a lot of trials

actually i run a stamblade and without relequen i maybe pull a little less than i would but i lose a metric ton of sustain and a dead dps or a dps with no sustain is a crap dps. vma weapons you dont need the bow anymore, the staves you dont need those anymore to roll decent dps so really they havent given us much stuff set wise to be worth paying for but the contents of the story is where you really get your moneys worth.

DuskMarine · July 2018

griffkhalifa wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

the cosmetic stuff is awesome but being so much money to buy it kindve sucks. what we deserve is fairly priced items and this stuff is not fairly priced.

I'm triggered. You "deserve" fairly priced items in the Crown Store? What does that even mean. And who determines what is "fairly priced"? The consumer does by either buying it or not buying it.

i work in retail and fairly priced tends to be actually worth the money is it worth having to spend 30$ on crowns when all i need is 25$? just think we should be able to buy crowns equal to these amounts and not have to spend more than i have to. that is fair pricing.

See here's the problem: you don't HAVE to spend money on crowns. For the 1001st time: if it's worth it to you buy it, if it isn't, don't.

actually to get certain things you have to pay for the crowns but, we should be able to pay the exact amount we need not more than what we need for more of the price.

kargen27 · July 2018

tuxon wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

tuxon wrote: »

Hello fellow comrades. ESO is beautiful game with a lot of potential. But there is one big madness going on now which represents ZOS treatment of their "players" aka customers. And don't get me wrong but this is not about cost - benefit function, this is not really okay. I was calm first time I heard about "crown riding lessons" even I believe the mount speed/stamina/capacity should be account wide. Then motifs in loot boxes and outfit slots only for 1 char. Come on I spent 1.500 crowns fot item which according to every aspect of logic should be account wide, but instead I got only +1 slot for 1 char. But what I really wanted to talk about is current situation with monster styles/outfits... Okay we got monster weapons for which we should pay crowns and we got ***, useless masks for insane grinding! And they are not even "brand new" as the commercial stated. And the weapons? The preview was like: "yas, buy it, spend your money and have a nice fire effect on your staff". But, honestly? On some NPC's staves the effects are better and even when the staves are sheathed. So is it what ZOS think about us? That we only want to PAY&GRIND?
If you think something like: they need to make money etc. and their policy towards their players is ok. I don't think so. I play on EU server and every know to me player on EU will say you that ESO is not a cheap game. Especially DLCs/Chapters. And I won't even mention that almost every single high level player has ESO+ (for all year in most cases).
All in all, I just don't want to see this game turning into one big slot machine, fading and dying for someone's greed.

P.S. I had an idea to start a discussion about essential and needed features in ESO for a long time, but some parts of it I saw as a separate discussions and they still were unanswered.
Some topics included there: main menu (new backgrounds for races/sorting your characters for your taste), 2H weapons animation (unsheathed handing redone), riding skills account wide and a lot more.
Should I do that?

Then don't buy it. Problem solved. Moving on...

Gosh. This is not about Ilambris Oufits. This is about the focus of the developers. The potential of ESO is huge, however there a lot of problems already now and we got some trash instead of improvements or implementing new things to the game. Next time I'll try to be more clear...

My guess is they have more than one team of programmers all working on different things. They don't move someone from debugging the lag issue and tell them this week we want you to make a purple broad sword.

Ydrisselle · July 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Problem is, companies that exist to make good games usually have little money to invest. And sadly, no matter how good a game might be, if its so cheaply made that its painful to play and fails at immersion, well... it will be overlooked and forgotten.

You should really play Witcher 3 and Stardew Valley then. Stardew Valley gets a multiplayer update for free (which is already in beta) and Witcher 3 only charged you for two bigger DLC while the rest was for free. It's not like ESO exists in a vacuum where it's the only game ever made. There are (still) companies out there making good games for the sake of making good games and they make a living that way. We tend to forget that it has been like that for quite a while before it changed.

Witcher 3 is not an online game, so they don't need to maintain servers (unlike ZOS for ESO). Stardew Valley's success was not expected, so they made way more money than they planned.

TheCyberDruid · July 2018

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Witcher 3 is not an online game, so they don't need to maintain servers (unlike ZOS for ESO). Stardew Valley's success was not expected, so they made way more money than they planned.

Yes, very well observed. Thank you for completely missing the point I tried to make when I replied to the false generalisation by TheShadowScout. You'll be hard pressed to bring up data to support that maintaining servers needs monetization in the form of loot boxes/crown crates though.

Ydrisselle · July 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Witcher 3 is not an online game, so they don't need to maintain servers (unlike ZOS for ESO). Stardew Valley's success was not expected, so they made way more money than they planned.

Yes, very well observed. Thank you for completely missing the point I tried to make when I replied to the false generalisation by TheShadowScout. You'll be hard pressed to bring up data to support that maintaining servers needs monetization in the form of loot boxes/crown crates though.

Maintaining servers needs stable income, since it's a stable expense. Without a required monthly fee ZOS still needs something. If an MMO can't make regular income, it will die and be closed.

I agree with you that good games are not only made by little developer studios with a low budget - however an MMO should not be compared to a single player game (not even a traditional multiplayer game).