newtinmpls wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

WTB all of you saying "no" your free time and willings to run like "mindless bot" gathering this everything every time on new char.

No, that's not what I am saying.

I have 2 accounts, 25 characters and none of them have gotten all the skyshards. 3 of them have fully finished the various riding lessons.

What I am saying is if I haven't done it on that character, then I shouldn't get it on that character.

If I was playing chess - then all of my "characters" live or die as a group.

This isn't chess.

We don't play our characters as "groups".

mmoRPG - one player at a time. One achievement at a time. Or, if that character didn't do it, then they didn't do it.

That's exactly my position, including the number of accounts and characters together with my approach to playing them.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Does this game not allow for multi-logins on different accounts? I used to five-box toons on WoW and RIFT for stuff I wanted more girls to have, quests, exploring, etc.

So far I have only one account here, but I'm thinking about another one. Two-boxing would be something I'd want to do though if I had two accounts, so if that's not workable in this game for some reason?

Multi-boxing is not allowed by ZOS.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23701

Where does it end though? Remove exploration skills by adding shard locations to maps today may encourage demand for many other shortcuts. Level 50 built out toons for you to venture forth into PvP land without any work on the player's part? Auto combat button so that you don't have the time sink and learning challenge to figure out how to play? An ultimate crafter button that gives you master crafter with just one finger push? May as well just have a win-the-game button. Log on, push it, log off. Come back in a week to view all your accomplishments, trophies, and victories.

This is a process game. There is no final grand victory. Its raison d'etre is to provide these time sink challenges to occupy our time without end. That is why new DLC and chapters are added here instead of to Skyrim, Oblivion, or Morrowind. They are all still playable. Arena and Daggerfall not so much. At some point there will be a new solo game with beginning, middle, and end set in the Elder Scrolls universe. That is not the purpose or future of TESO however.

Slick_007 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

You see, that's the thing. You've already done "X."

You shouldn't need to do it 7-14 more times. It's not getting anything for free because you've already gotten it.

but you didnt. thats the whole point of your own argument. you dont want to do it while we say if you want something you gotta earn it.

How exactly did one not earn it?

Hell, this is a game where we are identified more by our account name than our character name. I fail to see why each character has to be unique rather than an extension of our account. It simply isnt that type of game

Tetrafy wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So out of genuine curiosity, why do you guys think grinding the same stuff 8-15 times over is fun?

I legitimately don't understand. Is it just one of those "I did it so you have to" things? Masochism? Having too much time on your hands?

Its not fun grinding the same stuff over and over. You know what worse though? Flavor of the week PvP, and people giving up on something because it doesnt work for them in the first 10 minutes. If everyone had access to all there Skyshards and everything, there would be nothing but Sorcs in Cryodiil and Nightblades in PvE, because everone would have just moved over all there gear from last weeks flavor.

My first 2 Characters where DKs. I quit them both before even reaching lvl 15 because I didn't like them. Now one of those 2 is a vTrials DK Healer, since Homestead. Because I kept with the game and learned how to play DK later, I was able to make a fun build.

That's not really how skyshards or lorebooks work.

No idea what you mean here. I didnt say anything about how Skyshards and Lorebooks work. Other than answer the forum question of should they be account wide.

People are going to make alts regardless.

Yes, but not 5 a patch as they switch to the new meta class

May as well make it easier to make alts. There's no point in doing work you've already done

No, you should not make it easier to allow people to make the new cancer build. If you want Charater, whether t is your 1st or 14th, you should have to put a little work into it to make it worth having.

What I do not want is for people to be switching to the new flavor of the month. This wont happen nearly so often with the extra work. I have 10 characters. I've only ever deleted one and I only made it for the extra 60 storage before I caved and got plus.

People will absolutely switch to the flavor of the month if all you have to do is a 3 hour grind to 50 and then you have all your Guilds, Skill Points, and everything to leap into what ever content. I do not want to see 80% Werewolfs in Cryodiil 2 days after Wolf Hunter. I already hate that 90% of Trials runs are 1 DK, 1 Sorc, 1 Templar and 9 Nightblades

Most people it takes longer than 3 hours be realistic here. The average person wont hit 50 in a month of playing.

And most people it takes << a month. You can hit L50 by complete accident in 50 hours of gameplay, without XP events, without scrolls.

50 hours of meandering about, doing a little of this, and a little of that, and you'll be into CP territory. (Do a single random normal @20 minutes a day and you'll be most of the way there. Add in the BG's for another <20 minutes and you'll be maxed well before 30 days.)

Tetrafy wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

I don't think account wide achievement/skyshards/lorebooks/etc are really a great idea even though i'd welcome the lessened grind it would give lol. Would really put a damper on the games longevity. What i do sympathize with is the lack of addons (ps4 na). Having to use my Cell phone and pay for an outside app just to be able to find all the skyshards and lorebooks i need, in a timely fashion, is unfortunate. I'm sure they'll het around to adding it to the game by the time i finish them on my on my last toon lol.

If you burn out from grinding and dont play as much or at all there is no longefity.

And if it's all granted Day 0, those same players will end up getting bored with their new found character.

ZoS splits the difference. (And as far as grinds go, they've dialed back the necessary requirements for almost everything considerably since beta, shared, tradeable gear, morphable traits, shared CP, CP accessible from Level 1, dailies for Undaunted, MG, FG, Psijic, BG's, Alliance war, and XP bonuses left, right, and center.)

You are not forced to grind out any of this. You can pick it up along the way, one of a dozen different ways, and you can still be viable in the meantime.

You may not be final build, top tier, but you can very much be viable.

You don't absolutely need maxed Shards, Horse, Undaunted, MG, FG, Psijic to make it work. Pick it up a bit at a time, instead of in a single sitting, and you're character gets a little closer to your desired build, getting a little stronger each and every time.

Skillwise, you can have 2 weapon lines and all class lines maxed and morphed by L50, just with the points recieved from leveling. You can pick up enough extras from lots of other sources, and you can compensate for everything else in multiple ways.

There is zero content in this game you can't do without one or more of those items above left partially completed.

If you'd prefer a middle ground that everyone could likely hate, make Lorebooks and skyshards dynamic from character to character. No predetermined locations that way, console and PC on equal footing, everything still glowing just as purple or brilliant blinding white on console and PC alike.

I will go so far as to bet you end up spending far more time mucking about in your inventory and vendoring things than you ever will hunting shards or collecting books. I'd love to see a stat breakdown by activity, in that regard, because I suspect some of the numbers people assume are so high aren't, and some of the numbers people don't give a second thought to are probably through the roof.

Tetrafy wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

No. I will go one further, and say make CP individual.

No reason to lock new characters behind a huge grind. Just fine as it is now

While I really dislike account-wide systems like this in an RPG (they are better used in other mediums), the Champion System was designed to be account-wide. I does not even make sense to have CPs bound to the character.

Should they have done an account-wide Champion System? No. While it sounds like a cool idea, looking back, I think it was on the bad side of the spectrum of ideas.

Why people would never level alts and probably jump ship. Realize this game is getting big because of good decisions.

I had 3 v16 characters when they removed vet ranks, and a couple of other vets, but I'm casual. I had guildies who had all their character slots at max. There are tons of people who have no problem leveling alts, including on more than one account.

As others have pointed out, if you already have a toon that's a crafter, you can probably make a solid build without ever looking at a skyshard. Just run all the Group Dungeons and Public Group challenges to level Undaunted and you will probably have enough already from that and leveling to 50. And you can add the Public Dungeon Skyshards to the list if you like.

Then, if your thing is PvP, you can grab the skyshards in Cyrodiil during lulls in battle or if you are going into a delve anyway to get blessings.

Valrien wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

No.
What is even the point of playing the game if you aren't even going to play the game?

Just get everything for free?

Because after people spend a lot of time already grinding books and skyshards, then "the point of playing the game" is endgame content or pvp.

But if your "point of playing the game" is to literally just run around and collect skyshards, then have at it. I'm sure you're having lots of fun.

Part of the point of playing the game is getting the character to the end-game. The end-game is the completion of the character, not where the character starts. That is an RPG, and ESO is still an RPG. RPGs are about the character, not the player.

The end game is about the destination, not the journey...hence the name "end-game"

So what's the reasonable time frame from character creation screen to end-game character?

100 hrs? 50? 10? 2? Not like you have to farm gear on that particular alt.

abigfishy wrote: »

lol level 1 character with 200 skill points.

Oh level 1 character with 750 CP (That you can use from level 1).


Why does having 200 skill points at level 1 matter anyways? You can't spend them all at level 1 anyways.

The only thing people are asking for (especially console players) is to make it easier on alt characters to gather skyshards / level mage guild so we don't have to go through the grind on our umpteenth alt. I would like to be competitive on all my alts but I hate having to pull out my laptop , keep it on my lep while I play XBOX just so I can see where all the skyshard and mage guild locations are. At the very least they need to make markers on the maps for these locations if you have already found them once.

Hammy01 wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

lol level 1 character with 200 skill points.

Oh level 1 character with 750 CP (That you can use from level 1).


Why does having 200 skill points at level 1 matter anyways? You can't spend them all at level 1 anyways.

The only thing people are asking for (especially console players) is to make it easier on alt characters to gather skyshards / level mage guild so we don't have to go through the grind on our umpteenth alt. I would like to be competitive on all my alts but I hate having to pull out my laptop , keep it on my lep while I play XBOX just so I can see where all the skyshard and mage guild locations are. At the very least they need to make markers on the maps for these locations if you have already found them once.

Purple glow intended to draw your attention? Probably lore book (maybe thieves trove) Big white spotlight looking thing = skyshard. One in every delve (look for door to cave-like thing that seems somewhat out of place. Enter, run past mobs around typical layout for < 60 seconds, run back and exit.), one in every public (larger delve, same scenario). Full skyshards for group events in public's (if you've done it once, you don't need map to recall where the boss spawns - takes < 90 seconds from door to boss kill solo, perhaps a little longer if you have to wait for spawn.). Full skyshard for main line quests (wait till 50 and you can do them one after the other, and quest markers provided), full skyshard for initial 4 man dungeon quest completion. (Use Specific dungeon finder after first daily random, go right down the list, complete on norm in <20 minutes per.)

I have shards I've still never collected on my main. I've plenty of map icons never completed on my main (and thus the skillpoints that come with). I have alts that have never finished main line.

You don't need every point in the game to be viable. You never have.

Valrien wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

No.
What is even the point of playing the game if you aren't even going to play the game?

Just get everything for free?

Because after people spend a lot of time already grinding books and skyshards, then "the point of playing the game" is endgame content or pvp.

But if your "point of playing the game" is to literally just run around and collect skyshards, then have at it. I'm sure you're having lots of fun.

Part of the point of playing the game is getting the character to the end-game. The end-game is the completion of the character, not where the character starts. That is an RPG, and ESO is still an RPG. RPGs are about the character, not the player.

The end game is about the destination, not the journey...hence the name "end-game"

The end game is the culmination of the journey. The reason 'end' is there is because the game is over, but people still wanted something to do.

Hammy01 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

You see, that's the thing. You've already done "X."

You shouldn't need to do it 7-14 more times. It's not getting anything for free because you've already gotten it.

but you didnt. thats the whole point of your own argument. you dont want to do it while we say if you want something you gotta earn it.

But we have... we have discovered those skyshards and lore books at some point!

I think all you naysayers are missing the point. Most of us don't mind putting in the leg work to go and pick up the skyshards and lorebooks.. we just don't want to have to use secondary devices (IE - Laptop, tablet, phone) to locate the same things over and over again in game.

Zos just needs to put markers on the map for lorebooks and skyshards that have already been discovered and then I will be more than happy to slither my fat Argonian butt over to those markers to pick up what I need.

I think nobody is against having that option available. After all, there are addons on PC that do this.

Personally, I have not updated the Skyshard addon since Summerset because it was actually fun to look for them based on the hints in the achievement tab, and I still need to do the second public dungeon.

The thing is that the point of this thread is to have all skyshards/lorebooks available to all characters upon character creation, and that is what we are arguing against.

All I would really like on console is an option that can be toggled on and off for the locations of skyshards and lorebooks (preferably lorebooks for me)

AlnilamE wrote: »

I think nobody is against having that option available. After all, there are addons on PC that do this.

you have the option of using addons though, console does not

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I think nobody is against having that option available. After all, there are addons on PC that do this.

you have the option of using addons though, console does not

There are plenty who have that option but don't exercise it. Just because something isn't available to you doesn't mean that you are at a disadvantage compared to those for whom it is available. Many of the complaints about how easy the game is, how little time it takes to complete a paid-for chapter etc are from players using shortcuts through addons. It cheapens the game experience rather than enhances it, and we can see from other games like WoW and SWG before it how dumbing down a game results in veteran players leaving, not new players joining. With shortcuts players simply get to complain about the endgame sooner, that's all. It doesn't make the game any better, quite the contrary.

Tetrafy wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So out of genuine curiosity, why do you guys think grinding the same stuff 8-15 times over is fun?

I legitimately don't understand. Is it just one of those "I did it so you have to" things? Masochism? Having too much time on your hands?

Its not fun grinding the same stuff over and over. You know what worse though? Flavor of the week PvP, and people giving up on something because it doesnt work for them in the first 10 minutes. If everyone had access to all there Skyshards and everything, there would be nothing but Sorcs in Cryodiil and Nightblades in PvE, because everone would have just moved over all there gear from last weeks flavor.

My first 2 Characters where DKs. I quit them both before even reaching lvl 15 because I didn't like them. Now one of those 2 is a vTrials DK Healer, since Homestead. Because I kept with the game and learned how to play DK later, I was able to make a fun build.

That's not really how skyshards or lorebooks work.

No idea what you mean here. I didnt say anything about how Skyshards and Lorebooks work. Other than answer the forum question of should they be account wide.

People are going to make alts regardless.

Yes, but not 5 a patch as they switch to the new meta class

May as well make it easier to make alts. There's no point in doing work you've already done

No, you should not make it easier to allow people to make the new cancer build. If you want Charater, whether t is your 1st or 14th, you should have to put a little work into it to make it worth having.

What I do not want is for people to be switching to the new flavor of the month. This wont happen nearly so often with the extra work. I have 10 characters. I've only ever deleted one and I only made it for the extra 60 storage before I caved and got plus.

People will absolutely switch to the flavor of the month if all you have to do is a 3 hour grind to 50 and then you have all your Guilds, Skill Points, and everything to leap into what ever content. I do not want to see 80% Werewolfs in Cryodiil 2 days after Wolf Hunter. I already hate that 90% of Trials runs are 1 DK, 1 Sorc, 1 Templar and 9 Nightblades

Most people it takes longer than 3 hours be realistic here. The average person wont hit 50 in a month of playing.

@Tetrafy A month? Holy... I don't "grind, I level via questing. I usually only do it during an XP event, but during New Life I leveled two new charaters. So no a month is not reasonable. I also work 48 hour work weeks.
However, I don't say no because of casual players. I say no because of cancer players. Someone who takes a month to level a character isnt making or breaking the game in either direction. However, someone who levels in 3 to 6 hours is. They are the type that will stop the month long level person from getting into a trial because they dont have the meta build and who will crush them in PvP making them never come back to it.