Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
To every one that thinks Zenimax owes them something.
healzif
Soul Shriven
Maybe you should of read the TOS that you so hastily agreed to....
"ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time. Should ZeniMax make a material change to the Services, it will provide You notice within the time period specified when You joined the particular Service, or if no time period for notice of material changes was specified, then within thirty (30) days of the date such notice is either (at ZeniMax’s discretion) provided to You via email or is posted on the applicable product or ZeniMax Service or on Your “My Account” section."
Just remember, They built a product that you bought AS-IS and accepted the product by clicking the "I Agree" button.
"ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time. Should ZeniMax make a material change to the Services, it will provide You notice within the time period specified when You joined the particular Service, or if no time period for notice of material changes was specified, then within thirty (30) days of the date such notice is either (at ZeniMax’s discretion) provided to You via email or is posted on the applicable product or ZeniMax Service or on Your “My Account” section."
Just remember, They built a product that you bought AS-IS and accepted the product by clicking the "I Agree" button.
3
-
healzifSoul ShrivenMy favorite line:
You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever.0 -
Jerle69Soul ShrivenZOS is extending the early-access window to Sunday before the normal billing cycle begins, so there's your bone.1
-
Seneschel✭✭My favorite line:
You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever.
Yeah that's a great one right there. It's like no one reads these or anything! And who ever skips one of these?!!0 -
healzifSoul ShrivenMy favorite line:
You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever.
Yeah that's a great one right there. It's like no one reads these or anything! And who ever skips one of these?!!
I only read it during this most recent down time. I knew they had it covered, but just wanted to edumacate the non-edumacatable
0 -
Crotox✭http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/blog/english-mistakes/should-have-vs-should-of/
THE PHRASE "SHOULD OF" DOESN'T EXIST!
i'm no native speaker, but this annoys me. but i agree to OT2 -
fratter24Soul Shriventhen read carefully the first lines genius,
, stfu and stop creating new posts please.Except as prohibited by applicable law,0 -
healzifSoul Shrivenhttp://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/blog/english-mistakes/should-have-vs-should-of/
THE PHRASE "SHOULD OF" DOESN'T EXIST!
i'm no native speaker, but this annoys me. but i agree to OT
not 2 mes, I's gonna member tht 4 da futra0 -
Seneschel✭✭My favorite line:
You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever.
Yeah that's a great one right there. It's like no one reads these or anything! And who ever skips one of these?!!
I only read it during this most recent down time. I knew they had it covered, but just wanted to edumacate the non-edumacatable
Yeah all companies have it covered. People should know by now that it's gonna be there even if you don't read it. Why risk a lawsuit when it takes two minutes to add that additional line to something people will blindly accept anyway?0 -
this thread is a direct result of game servers being down to much. if you actually read the TOS I sincerely feel for you as a human being. they all say the same thing...we don't take responsibility for ***...thanks for purchasing /cliftnotes off lol0
-
raglau✭✭✭✭✭One of my favourite things about living in the EU, is that ToS do not apply if they would lessen your consumer rights. So you can simply click them away safe in the knowledge they usually are not worth the pixels they are written on.1
-
mourneuk✭i don't think people are just pissed by the downtime during prime time. I think they're more bothered by the lack of communication - ZOS must have known before early access even started that they were going to bring the servers down for maintenance just before official launch, but neglected to tell anyone until just before they brought the servers down.
What this demonstrates is a company completely inexperienced when it comes to online gaming. They have a great deal to learn in a very short period or they will haemorrhage customers.
The terms of service protect companies from being sued. It doesn't protect them from being deserted by their customers, and this is what they risk with every single amateurish stunt they pull.0 -
rvr1982✭✭Yea, there is a crasy amount of haters on this forum.
Looks like it's their first time pre-ordering a game. what did they expect ? bug free ? zero maintenance ? Sure. Stop dreaming.0 -
healzifSoul Shriveni don't think people are just pissed by the downtime during prime time. I think they're more bothered by the lack of communication - ZOS must have known before early access even started that they were going to bring the servers down for maintenance just before official launch, but neglected to tell anyone until just before they brought the servers down.
What this demonstrates is a company completely inexperienced when it comes to online gaming. They have a great deal to learn in a very short period or they will haemorrhage customers.
The terms of service protect companies from being sued. It doesn't protect them from being deserted by their customers, and this is what they risk with every single amateurish stunt they pull.
I agree. I did not say that I enjoyed losing many valuable hours of gaming. Just that I don't think Zenimax owes us anything.
Kinda like that *** that should hold the door for you when your hands are full. It would be nice if he did, but i would not expect payment of goods or services from him if he didn't.0 -
Bunk✭✭✭
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
idiot0 -
Halcyen✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
This.
You are pretty much extorted into agreeing to the ToS and EULA. You've already purchased your product, now they tell you the only way to use your product is to agree to their terms after the fact.
I know all game developers and OS developers do this, but its still shady.0 -
Mememe✭✭One of my favourite things about living in the EU, is that ToS do not apply if they would lessen your consumer rights. So you can simply click them away safe in the knowledge they usually are not worth the pixels they are written on.
This is very true and I'm not of the "waaahh refund" train of thought. The exact legislation which is applicable here is the "unfair tems in consumer contracts directive". I can only presume people who think ToS trumps everything. Don't live in the EU and understand how strong consumer legislation is. If they do live in the EU, it's a real shame they don't understand their legal rights and actually what a strong "trumps all" bit of legislation it is.1 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
Pretty much yes, in the EU anyway. Any contract that puts a consumer party in an unfair position cannot be enforced. B2B it's different, but not business to consumer. Basically, you cannot sign away your rights that are bestowed upon you by the state, even if you want to.Edited by raglau on April 3, 2014 9:27PM0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
Yes, Einstein. You cannot sign away legal rights under any circumstances. Glad you're finally catching up. It's been a long slog but you got there. Well done.1 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭Yes, any terms signed (accepted) AFTER the contract starts are non-enforceable. Devs simply do this on the basis that they know most people are not aware of their rights in law. And law always over-rides contracts and terms made at a lower (individual) level.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
This.
You are pretty much extorted into agreeing to the ToS and EULA. You've already purchased your product, now they tell you the only way to use your product is to agree to their terms after the fact.
I know all game developers and OS developers do this, but its still shady.
0 -
healzifSoul Shriven
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
Pretty much yes, in the EU anyway. Any contract that puts a consumer party in an unfair position cannot be enforced. B2B it's different, but not business to consumer. Basically, you cannot sign away your rights that are bestowed upon you by the state, even if you want to.
I would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax bends you over and begins sticking their *** in your ass, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭I would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax bends you over and begins sticking their *** in your ass, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.
Very easy in the UK, I am doing it right now with a photography company who breached contract (£1200). Small claims court, plus you can sue your credit card company as a joint party, so they tend to fight for you to protect themselves.
Not suggesting anyone does such a thing with Zeni (it's merely a case of see if they improve and if not then don't subscribe IMO), merely pointing out the facts. Its surprising how few people understand their rights and yet they are so easy to defend.Edited by raglau on April 3, 2014 10:05PM1 -
Mememe✭✭
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
Pretty much yes, in the EU anyway. Any contract that puts a consumer party in an unfair position cannot be enforced. B2B it's different, but not business to consumer. Basically, you cannot sign away your rights that are bestowed upon you by the state, even if you want to.
I would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.
OFC he does, it's not Judge Judy. I think some people really should stop and realise that actually some people have left school and may have studied this? Or work in the field for a living, or have first hand experience of making a claim?
If a consumer feels a product or service is of a unsatisfactory quality or does not meet what was sold. They can ask for a refund. In the EU, regardless of the ToS, they don't trump your consumer rights, there have been plenty of people getting refunds.
It won't ever get far as court as most decent companies like this one are refunding people.
If you don't get any joy and you feel your service is not up to what you paid for. It's a really simple process. You file a claim online, it costs next to nothing. Most times you don't even step foot in a court as a company knows how strong consumer legislation is and refunds. For small amounts like this it will all be done online. ToS won;t trump consumer legislation, that is a fact.
It's really not hard. I think too many people have been watching USA court drama's on this forum.
I think the give me a refund brigade are a bit hysterical myself. But I can't stand all these people who think ToS trump your consumer rights in the EU and clearly have NO idea of how the law works, at all. It's embarrassing.
1 -
Valwardon✭✭
Just like any signed contract, right?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »ToS are legally meaningless drivel that mean nothing whatsoever.
Pretty much yes, in the EU anyway. Any contract that puts a consumer party in an unfair position cannot be enforced. B2B it's different, but not business to consumer. Basically, you cannot sign away your rights that are bestowed upon you by the state, even if you want to.
I would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax bends you over and begins sticking their *** in your ass, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.
I live in America. GA as a matter of fact. I have seen three times online companies TOS not holding up in court. One was Google itself. They have a program called Adsense and it states they can ban you at any time for any reason and pretty much not pay you anything that is owed to you.
The Judge looks at the TOS then they looked at Google and said what was the reason? The Google rep did not know what the reason was. Judge said that in my court is not a good enough reason. Your TOS is not valid you will pay the amount that you owe him.
Like I said seen it happen three times this is only in the past couple years. However even in America TOS in court means nothing.
You can not sign a TOS and say you will sacrifice your child on his first birthday and expect a court to uphold that agreement. There is a good deal of if's and or but's. In short if it looks like the consumer is getting screwed then chances are the court will not even consider the TOS as a valid agreement.
I do not think that Zenmax has done anything that the courts would throw out the agreement in a court though. Just saying it can and does happen. Do not believe me "lol google it". Stop the debate it is pointless and redundant as it can and does happen TOS get's throw out all the time in court.Edited by Valwardon on April 3, 2014 10:33PM0 -
healzifSoul ShrivenI would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax bends you over and begins sticking their *** in your ass, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.
Very easy in the UK, I am doing it right now with a photography company who breached contract (£1200). Small claims court, plus you can sue your credit card company as a joint party, so they tend to fight for you to protect themselves.
Not suggesting anyone does such a thing with Zeni (it's merely a case of see if they improve and if not then don't subscribe IMO), merely pointing out the facts. Its surprising how few people understand their rights and yet they are so easy to defend.
I would love to be educated on this EU topic. Because you as a consumer are whining because the service provider has taken the service down to make necessary updates to improve the quality of the service they provide to you, they are opened to be "sued" for a refund or compensation... wow. I wish i lived there. I would sue Walmart for the bananas that have a brown spot on them. Your case is solid in the imaginary world of whining ***. Let me know how it turns out, or stop bitching if you don't plan on acting.0 -
Valwardon✭✭I would love for someone to try to "trump" the TOS with a consumer law in court. Just because there is a law out there that "might" apply to your situation. Unless Zenimax bends you over and begins sticking their *** in your ass, i don't think you have the rights that you think you do.
Very easy in the UK, I am doing it right now with a photography company who breached contract (£1200). Small claims court, plus you can sue your credit card company as a joint party, so they tend to fight for you to protect themselves.
Not suggesting anyone does such a thing with Zeni (it's merely a case of see if they improve and if not then don't subscribe IMO), merely pointing out the facts. Its surprising how few people understand their rights and yet they are so easy to defend.
I would love to be educated on this EU topic. Because you as a consumer are whining because the service provider has taken the service down to make necessary updates to improve the quality of the service they provide to you, they are opened to be "sued" for a refund or compensation... wow. I wish i lived there. I would sue Walmart for the bananas that have a brown spot on them. Your case is solid in the imaginary world of whining ***. Let me know how it turns out, or stop bitching if you don't plan on acting.
You mean like the people who sued McDonalds because they got to fat. Or the people who sued McDonalds cause the coffee was too hot. That was America. Your case was just defeated. Buh Bye now.
Also when you talk about a Service read AOl versus the people when AOL's TOS was thrown out and people sued them for having poor connectivity in AMERICA.
Also of note Microsoft's TOS have been thrown out of American courts before allowing them to be sued as well. Which they have of course since revised. IN AMERICA.
I am not saying Zen has done anything wrong. Just saying your argument is HORRIBLE. It has no basis in fact or fiction for that matter.
Edited by Valwardon on April 3, 2014 10:43PM0
