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Lets not overreact and completely gut runecage
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Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hayden_Knight wrote: »i'm just sick of hearing sorcerers bang on about how hard they have it.
that sorc tool kit
and i'm sick of everyone banging on and whining about sorcs and how hard it is to face them.
rune cage isn't the origin of the break free bug and nerfing it won't fix that bug, either.
address the root of the problem, not the symptoms that exist in every class that can throw a root or stun in pvp.
6 -
The argument here isn't that the skill needs to be nerfed, it's just that it needs to work as intended, i.e., allowing the target to break free the way all other stuns work. I don't think Rune Cage is OP because I find it pretty easy to counter. Just have a decent stam pool and put minimal effort into damage mitigation, then once you get hit with a rune cage, just break free, eat the 1-2k damage, and enjoy your CC immunity while you follow up on the sorc that cast it on you. Ezpz on my magDK in BGs2 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭I went into bgs on my newly vr stam sorc with about 1/4 of the passives, green gear in divines, no sustain and freakin roflstomped noobs with runecage.
That skill is stupid.3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've faced this frequently in both Cyro and Battlegrounds, and while it's strong I don't think it needs a super-strong nerf. I'm sure there's an enormous number of ways to balance it a bit better, but I would personally just want to see its range reduced slightly to 22 meters. Sorc is a ranged class and it shouldn't be forced to get up way close like Petrify, but it should also present at least a little bit of a risk for such a powerful ability. If it gets put into the same range category as gap closers and pulls, then I think it would still meet the needs of the sorc while providing a nontrivial amount of risk that gives other players the opportunity to change up the fight and put it on their terms.
@Recremen
Yes, we agree on this. I have been saying that it should be gap closer range (22 meters) and remove the keep buffs so it cant go beyond that pretty much this whole PTS cycle. This skill got a small buff when sorc was pretty middle of the road in PVP, now as usual, the forums want to completely gut the class.As a sorc main i can tell you it's op af. when you have 3 ppl on you it's rc and you die. I rock around 18k stam. It's pirate monster or gg gf gtfo.
Same with sloads. 1 sload? Meh. 3 sloads on you? Gg gf gtfo
@Jurand80
If you are outnumbered three to one getting pounded on, any hard CC is probably the end of you. Your positioning on the battlefield was bad which is by definition a L2P issue. It has nothing to do with the skill. You are supposed to die when outnumbered 3 to 1.
End of the day, the damage and range needs toned done. The other issue is the CC immunity is not always working as well as it should. That said, I would bet half the gold in my bank that the average person on the forums crying about not being able to break from rune cage actually ran out of stam. If you have ever complained about the duration of this skill, your stam management was by definiton bad. If your build cant break free from a CC on cooldown, you need to adjust your build.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RC may not be the only unblockable undodgeable stun but its the Sorcerer's timed burst combo that makes it OP.
Magicka NBs use the Meteor + Fear (6 meters) + Assassins Will + Impale (by which time you can dodge this)
DKs apply a few DOTs then Meteor + Fossilize (8 meters) + Whip + Whip without even an execute
But Sorcerers can put a Mage's Fury and Curse beforehand then cast Meteor + Rune (41 meters) + Frags and all can hit at the same time.Thats 2 powerful burst abilities + an execution guaranteed to hit.
And its ironic that Sorcerers accuse everyone else for being glass cannons when we excel at glass cannon builds thanks to shield stacking. Like we're the only class in pvp who dont have to slot impenetrable trait and still remain viable. Not even dodge builds can slot full well fitted anymore thanks to ... the undodgeable Rune Cage combo.
It's not guaranteed, though. Good players will CC you or pop Immovable or Cloak or even Mistform before you can complete the combo.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Shardaxx✭✭✭✭✭I wish I had a skill like runecage.PS4 - Europe - Shardaxx - Wood Elf Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a sorc main i can tell you it's op af. when you have 3 ppl on you it's rc and you die. I rock around 18k stam. It's pirate monster or gg gf gtfo.
Same with sloads. 1 sload? Meh. 3 sloads on you? Gg gf gtfo
So the skill is OP because you can't 1vX if someone is using it? Makes sense.Saying you have never died to Rune Cage is the same as saying you've never been in PvP.
Yes my Tribune rank was hacked onto the account. The real question is how you died to a skill that does 2k damage and can only be used every 6 seconds. Did you forget to bring your armor?
Also arguing that in a "3v1 scenario its gg" is mute point. ZOSs vision is clearly against 1vX and that in a 3v1 scenario you SHOULD die.
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rename the skill to "cage for bads"Edited by Malamar1229 on July 19, 2018 11:37PM1 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, so let's list all of the skills a sorc has access to/is likely to potentially use that affect targets outside of gap closer range:
Endless Fury/Mages Wrath
Haunting Curse/Daedric Prey
Crystal Fragments/Crystal Blast
Rune Cage (the other morph is cast on self so is whatever range the attack hits from)
Ice Comet/Shooting Star
Degeneration/Structured Entropy
Force Pulse/Crushing Shock
Destructive Reach
Now i am of the opinion that the maximum range of any CC should be gap closer range (22 metres) as outside of that range they pose much less of a threat and the only reason to CC outside of that range is if you want an advantage in your burst combo.
This is the issue with mag sorcs is that they queue the damage and then rune cage, all while outside of gap closer range. This is literally the giant putting a hand on the forehead of the dwarf and kicking them repeatedly.
I am also of the opinion that rune cage, petrify and fear should have the basic stun animation, which is much easier and efficient to CC break even in bad lag.
Another change i'd make is to make Snipe and it's morphs the same range as crushing shock and add a 1 second cool down on the skill so it can't just be mindlessly spammed.
All of this would create a better overall balance. Counterplay to both sides of a screwy equation is what we're asking for.
Rune Cage's damage DOES NOT MATTER, it's range and buggy CC does. The range of stuns should be the range where there is a more significant threat, which is gap closer distance.Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!5 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you are dying from this super op roflstomp skill maybe you should build for more sustain/defense. Crying about your glass cannon getting 1-shotted isn't viable evidence of a skill needing a nerf. I play in no CP in 5 medium with 1 damage set and 1 sustain set with only impenetrable trait for defense and I have yet to be killed in the immensely short amount of time it takes to break free from CC.
It has never been unbreakable for me but I understand the frustration from CC's being unbreakable for me before. However, this is a problem with coding and not the skill causing it.
Rune cage isn't the only unblockable and undodgeable CC on the market. Go fix your build so you're not getting curb stomped in a second flat instead of crying wolf to the nerf gods.
EDIT: I acknowledge that the skill has a pretty significant bug. This needs to be fixed 100%. I should have made this more clear in the original post. However, I still stand that the skill needs a bug fix and not a nerf. Some people seem to think that a nerf will fix a problem caused by the bug and that isn't how it works.
The problem with rune cage is timing. Timing is the most important thing in this game. When you cant time your healing correctly you are doomed. Rune cage is one of the very few skills that can destroy timing, but heres why its the worst offender.
Petrify, fear, rune cage, and streak are all un dodge-able ccs. Fear is pretty bad because nightblades have huge burst and heal debuffs.. Also the animation sucks so you might not know that you're feared if theres a lot going on. Then it might be to late.
Petrify isnt so bad because mag dks dont have a frag or spectral bow that hits insanely hard. And streak is the weakest un dodge-able cc.. This is because when you streak through someone you have to turn and hit the frag. With rune cage you can cast it and, while it takes a second or so to CC the enemy, you can already have the frag on its way and almost hitting the enemy.
Sorc is a huge burst class. Classes like stam blade and mag sorc have so much more than some other classes (stam sorc, magden)... This is why every update those classes are at the top in one way or another. I wouldnt worry so much about nerfs when the class has so much to offer. Especially when it probably will just lose its damage, which i think it should tbh.3 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »As a sorc main i can tell you it's op af. when you have 3 ppl on you it's rc and you die. I rock around 18k stam. It's pirate monster or gg gf gtfo.
Same with sloads. 1 sload? Meh. 3 sloads on you? Gg gf gtfo
So the skill is OP because you can't 1vX if someone is using it? Makes sense.Saying you have never died to Rune Cage is the same as saying you've never been in PvP.
Yes my Tribune rank was hacked onto the account. The real question is how you died to a skill that does 2k damage and can only be used every 6 seconds. Did you forget to bring your armor?
Also arguing that in a "3v1 scenario its gg" is mute point. ZOSs vision is clearly against 1vX and that in a 3v1 scenario you SHOULD die.
"makes sense" was my poor attempt at bring funny. I agree with you completely its just hard to convey sarcasm through text.OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Ok, so let's list all of the skills a sorc has access to/is likely to potentially use that affect targets outside of gap closer range:
Endless Fury/Mages Wrath
Haunting Curse/Daedric Prey
Crystal Fragments/Crystal Blast
Rune Cage (the other morph is cast on self so is whatever range the attack hits from)
Ice Comet/Shooting Star
Degeneration/Structured Entropy
Force Pulse/Crushing Shock
Destructive Reach
Now i am of the opinion that the maximum range of any CC should be gap closer range (22 metres) as outside of that range they pose much less of a threat and the only reason to CC outside of that range is if you want an advantage in your burst combo.
This is the issue with mag sorcs is that they queue the damage and then rune cage, all while outside of gap closer range. This is literally the giant putting a hand on the forehead of the dwarf and kicking them repeatedly.
I am also of the opinion that rune cage, petrify and fear should have the basic stun animation, which is much easier and efficient to CC break even in bad lag.
Another change i'd make is to make Snipe and it's morphs the same range as crushing shock and add a 1 second cool down on the skill so it can't just be mindlessly spammed.
All of this would create a better overall balance. Counterplay to both sides of a screwy equation is what we're asking for.
Rune Cage's damage DOES NOT MATTER, it's range and buggy CC does. The range of stuns should be the range where there is a more significant threat, which is gap closer distance.
This is the constructive criticism that benefits a discussion. Thank you.Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691031 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭If you are dying from this super op roflstomp skill maybe you should build for more sustain/defense. Crying about your glass cannon getting 1-shotted isn't viable evidence of a skill needing a nerf. I play in no CP in 5 medium with 1 damage set and 1 sustain set with only impenetrable trait for defense and I have yet to be killed in the immensely short amount of time it takes to break free from CC.
It has never been unbreakable for me but I understand the frustration from CC's being unbreakable for me before. However, this is a problem with coding and not the skill causing it.
Rune cage isn't the only unblockable and undodgeable CC on the market. Go fix your build so you're not getting curb stomped in a second flat instead of crying wolf to the nerf gods.
EDIT: I acknowledge that the skill has a pretty significant bug. This needs to be fixed 100%. I should have made this more clear in the original post. However, I still stand that the skill needs a bug fix and not a nerf. Some people seem to think that a nerf will fix a problem caused by the bug and that isn't how it works.
The problem with rune cage is timing. Timing is the most important thing in this game. When you cant time your healing correctly you are doomed. Rune cage is one of the very few skills that can destroy timing, but heres why its the worst offender.
Petrify, fear, rune cage, and streak are all un dodge-able ccs. Fear is pretty bad because nightblades have huge burst and heal debuffs.. Also the animation sucks so you might not know that you're feared if theres a lot going on. Then it might be to late.
Petrify isnt so bad because mag dks dont have a frag or spectral bow that hits insanely hard. And streak is the weakest un dodge-able cc.. This is because when you streak through someone you have to turn and hit the frag. With rune cage you can cast it and, while it takes a second or so to CC the enemy, you can already have the frag on its way and almost hitting the enemy.
Sorc is a huge burst class. Classes like stam blade and mag sorc have so much more than some other classes (stam sorc, magden)... This is why every update those classes are at the top in one way or another. I wouldnt worry so much about nerfs when the class has so much to offer. Especially when it probably will just lose its damage, which i think it should tbh.
With your comments in mind, a suggestion I have not heard yet is to make the stun instant instead of slightly delayed. I think this could help move us in the right direction.Rune cage is broken
Very insightful.
Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691030 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Playing sorcs take no skill now. Back when frags still had the stun, it actually took some skill to learn to time your combo with haunting+frag+ultimate. Now it's a no-brain-one-button-pressing unblockable/undodgable stun that has a 28m range, which is ridiculous if you compare it to fossilize or fear that has an 8m and 6m range, respectively. Haunting+meteor+cage+frag/execute literally has no counter play unless you pop an immovable pot or use the psijic ultimate at the right time. Say what you want, but there is no doubt that rune cage is broken.Edited by StaticWave on July 20, 2018 1:12AM4 -
Aesthier✭✭✭✭✭Nerf all skills and abilities in PVP until its just people running around naked fighting with their fists.
ZoS will never find the mythical magical unicorn of balance.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I get rune caged all the time. I just don’t see what the problem is. I’ve gotten to “Kill 100 Sorcs” before any of the other achievements. Though, in Cyrodiil I pop immovables. Fossilize vs other MagDk’s is much more of a hassle in duels where we agree beforehand not to run immovables lol.Edited by JumpmanLane on July 20, 2018 1:21AM1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MagDk is more like talons, whip, fossilize, powerlash (hope Skoria procs) Leap lol.0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Yeah, OP, the main complaint about it is not only its range but also that you can't break out of it about 50% of the time (of course I mean even with your resources at full). Making a tankier toon doesn't help that. Petrify seems buggy to me, too. The range is 8 meters (roughly 26 feet) but on my own StamDK I have to be within about 1 meter for it to work when the opposing player isn't CC immune. As in you have to be right on their heels.
The damage from RC is no big deal. Again, though, that's not what people are annoyed with. It's the buggy break free from it that gives the sorc plenty of time to set off the actual lethal combo attack if the player can't get loose.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.
Hear that guys? Rune Cage is apparently weak.2 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.
Hear that guys? Rune Cage is apparently weak.
All those skills listed, by themselves they are fine. But as soon as other forms of damage are added into the equation they are very powerful.
I can easily deal with Rune cage. by itself. But when Curse, Meteor, Fury (maybe add a frag) then add an undodgable, unblockable stun right as they all hit. yeah its totes weak af.
Sloads by itself can be healed through with vigor, but sloads procs skoria which procs sloads, then add cripples grasp and impale.
PS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main2 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.
Hear that guys? Rune Cage is apparently weak.
Not just "weak". It's weak "AF".1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.
Hear that guys? Rune Cage is apparently weak.
Not just "weak". It's weak "AF".
That's pretty weak. I guess it needs a buff then. Probably should Defile you as well. Magsorcs are in a pretty bad state right now. I've even heard that the only thing magsorcs can kill are other magsorcs! Man I'd hate to be where they're at right now.2 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL, Sorc in disguise.
Does it matter? If it was really that bad, don't you think Sorcs wouldn't want to get caged by other Sorcs?
Compared to Cloak, Incap, Oblivion damage and a whole bunch of other overpowered things, Rune Cage is weak AF.
Hear that guys? Rune Cage is apparently weak.
Not just "weak". It's weak "AF".
That's pretty weak. I guess it needs a buff then. Probably should Defile you as well. Magsorcs are in a pretty bad state right now. I've even heard that the only thing magsorcs can kill are other magsorcs! Man I'd hate to be where they're at right now.
Oh I know! It's terrible! The poor things. Defile is a good idea, and maybe Major Fracture and Maim, too. They need all the help they can get, right?3
