FakeFox wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

You are brave by speaking by the majority of players who just play for fun even doing vets and endgame stuff.

This message you created was directed towards the most toxic and manipulable by 3rd party opinions/influencers/hype/minmaxers/tryhards. Leading to a no brain community guided by those mentioned before. I'm sorry if i offend someone, just speaking facts.

The parse thing has become as popular as back in the day of wotlk gearscore addon; or day present neverwinter gearscore in game attribute measurement.

The dps parses trend has to go, it will only make us go somewhere we wont like, and then these tryharders with their parses will leave the game because of a new grind/farming items/worse rng could happen because of so many players reaching so much dps will just tell devs to increase the "challenge" and thus forcing other players with lives and jobs to do x task for x time. Simply because some guys wanted to make the vet content easy.

Sometimes the best is not always the best, and sometimes easy is not always fun.

Parsing has to go, practicing in a mmo is ridiculous, dummies doesnt make you dodge red areas, doesnt hit u. Your dps parse is a self reassuring tool for the insecure dps, and it has to go. Period.

The only toxic person I see right now is you. And you are absolutely wrong and insulting, by implying good players have no jobs or real live.

LiquidPony wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

You are brave by speaking by the majority of players who just play for fun even doing vets and endgame stuff.

This message you created was directed towards the most toxic and manipulable by 3rd party opinions/influencers/hype/minmaxers/tryhards. Leading to a no brain community guided by those mentioned before. I'm sorry if i offend someone, just speaking facts.

The parse thing has become as popular as back in the day of wotlk gearscore addon; or day present neverwinter gearscore in game attribute measurement.

The dps parses trend has to go, it will only make us go somewhere we wont like, and then these tryharders with their parses will leave the game because of a new grind/farming items/worse rng could happen because of so many players reaching so much dps will just tell devs to increase the "challenge" and thus forcing other players with lives and jobs to do x task for x time. Simply because some guys wanted to make the vet content easy.

Sometimes the best is not always the best, and sometimes easy is not always fun.

Parsing has to go, practicing in a mmo is ridiculous, dummies doesnt make you dodge red areas, doesnt hit u. Your dps parse is a self reassuring tool for the insecure dps, and it has to go. Period.

Thank you for also seeing the absurdity about “practicing.” Unless you’re a professional gamer making money, the idea of someone practicing in a video game otherwise is just sad. Do people go on Call of Duty and sit at the firing range all day? Playing the game IS practicing. In Destiny, you go on missions and such where you kill enemies and complete the goal. Then, you go on the raid events and do the same thing. You’re prepared for this part of the game because in plahing the game, you have prepared.

RNG is insidious. Theorycrafters release what’s BiS, and everyone then clamors for this rare much sought after gear. The game then BECOMES a never ending farm. And that plays right into developers hands.

If you want to make dummy parses value added, make them challenging. The dummy is a combat dummy, and you have to dodge AoE’s, direct damage, and snare like effects. Add in a couple virtual bodies around that you need to rez in a certain amount of time or you fail. In between all this movement/blocking/rezzing, you dps the dummy. At the end of a timer, you’re given a score -based on how many attacks you avoided, how fast you rezzed, how much damage you did. Think akin to the Xmen Danger Room. THEN you’d actually be practicing, while playing something at least ‘resembling’ the game.

Good lord, the amount of nonsense that gets posted on these forums ...

In Destiny, you shoot your gun. In Call of Duty, you shoot your gun. There's no point in "practice" because the practice wouldn't apply to the actual game. You're not working through a complex rotation or managing DoTs or resources or buff/debuff uptimes in these games. There's no point at all in drawing an analogy between ESO combat and basic FPS combat.

In ESO you hit the target skeleton to optimize your build, to test variations in gear and skills and CP and group comp, and to perfect your rotation. Would it be better to do this in actual combat scenarios? Maybe, but that's hard to do by yourself and time-consuming even with a group. Remember the Bloodspawn and Slimecraw DPS test days? I do. It was a pain. We really want to get a group of 12 and reset vHRC over and over again to practice on Ra Kotu? Why do that when we have easier options?

Spend enough time in front of the target skeleton and the rotation becomes ingrained. When the rotation becomes ingrained, you can focus on mechanics and the other stuff you actually need to do in game. And besides all of that, numerous fights in this game are just stack and burn. What you do on a target skeleton is exactly what you do on Ra Kotu or the Foundation Stone Atro or Valariel or most dungeon bosses.

And your point about practice is pretty ridiculous. Lots of people "practice" for things they don't get paid for every day. They're called hobbies. Some people find it fun to spend time optimizing their ESO combat skills. Other people have fun posting dumb nonsense on the forums of a game they don't even play. We probably have a different opinion on which one of those hobbies is "sad."

Your post lost whatever semblance of integrity it had when you resorted to name-calling. Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument, and people recognize that fact fairly quickly when reading one.

You clearly don't understand what "ad hominem" means.

Ad hominem: an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

“Some people find it fun to spend time optimizing their ESO combat skills. Other people have fun posting dumb nonsense on the forums of a game they don't even play. We probably have a different opinion on which one of those hobbies is "sad."

I rest my case.

As was said in a previous post, people are just as entitled to post about a facet of the game that they think is detrimental, as are those who post in defense of that facet. Furthermore, I even stated that I had participated in the parsing fervor, but began to notice how setting that gateway doesn’t always lead to better parses, but more “imaginative” ways to parse.

Take Alcast for example. His parses rarely contain the skills he even recommends, and he pulls numbers that guilds I’m in wouldn’t accept. Even cheesing, his parses are not considered competitive. My guild has a threshold for 52k solo on a dummy for stamblades to make it on the team. I thought they were an anomaly, but now even casual guilds want 45k. Like fashion or music, things trickle down to the masses from “those on high.” Suddenly BiS becomes an essential element of participation.

Not to mention the inherent difference between PC and console. I play primarily on console, where there are no buff timers, notifications, are anywhere near the latency of PC. Yet like what was said previously, this hasn’t stopped the PC modality from becoming commonplace. I have a pc account and went through thr motions on a dummy recently; it’s truly night and day. My parse was 5k higher on PC, and loads easier to achieve. The problem the masses adopting the same standards is that some are far easier to obtain than other. It’s why high school athletes aren’t measured against the criteria for professional players.

I never stated I didn’t understand the necessity of parses, in fact I said the opposite, but my point was about the ubiquity with which content even for casual gamers has become prohibitive.

Also, regardless if I’ve topped my playing a game, that doesn’t mean the game doesn’t interest me. I’ve played ESO since launch, but couldn’t accept any longer the time/energy it takes to stay competitive, even casually. If parses were dynamic and that facet of the game felt integrated into the whole, Id be much more interested to participate. But when a multiplayer game becomes portioned to spend longer and longer stretches of time solo with a target dummy as your teammate, we’ve lost something along the way.

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

You are brave by speaking by the majority of players who just play for fun even doing vets and endgame stuff.

This message you created was directed towards the most toxic and manipulable by 3rd party opinions/influencers/hype/minmaxers/tryhards. Leading to a no brain community guided by those mentioned before. I'm sorry if i offend someone, just speaking facts.

The parse thing has become as popular as back in the day of wotlk gearscore addon; or day present neverwinter gearscore in game attribute measurement.

The dps parses trend has to go, it will only make us go somewhere we wont like, and then these tryharders with their parses will leave the game because of a new grind/farming items/worse rng could happen because of so many players reaching so much dps will just tell devs to increase the "challenge" and thus forcing other players with lives and jobs to do x task for x time. Simply because some guys wanted to make the vet content easy.

Sometimes the best is not always the best, and sometimes easy is not always fun.

Parsing has to go, practicing in a mmo is ridiculous, dummies doesnt make you dodge red areas, doesnt hit u. Your dps parse is a self reassuring tool for the insecure dps, and it has to go. Period.

The only toxic person I see right now is you. And you are absolutely wrong and insulting, by implying good players have no jobs or real live.

LiquidPony wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

You are brave by speaking by the majority of players who just play for fun even doing vets and endgame stuff.

This message you created was directed towards the most toxic and manipulable by 3rd party opinions/influencers/hype/minmaxers/tryhards. Leading to a no brain community guided by those mentioned before. I'm sorry if i offend someone, just speaking facts.

The parse thing has become as popular as back in the day of wotlk gearscore addon; or day present neverwinter gearscore in game attribute measurement.

The dps parses trend has to go, it will only make us go somewhere we wont like, and then these tryharders with their parses will leave the game because of a new grind/farming items/worse rng could happen because of so many players reaching so much dps will just tell devs to increase the "challenge" and thus forcing other players with lives and jobs to do x task for x time. Simply because some guys wanted to make the vet content easy.

Sometimes the best is not always the best, and sometimes easy is not always fun.

Parsing has to go, practicing in a mmo is ridiculous, dummies doesnt make you dodge red areas, doesnt hit u. Your dps parse is a self reassuring tool for the insecure dps, and it has to go. Period.

Thank you for also seeing the absurdity about “practicing.” Unless you’re a professional gamer making money, the idea of someone practicing in a video game otherwise is just sad. Do people go on Call of Duty and sit at the firing range all day? Playing the game IS practicing. In Destiny, you go on missions and such where you kill enemies and complete the goal. Then, you go on the raid events and do the same thing. You’re prepared for this part of the game because in plahing the game, you have prepared.

RNG is insidious. Theorycrafters release what’s BiS, and everyone then clamors for this rare much sought after gear. The game then BECOMES a never ending farm. And that plays right into developers hands.

If you want to make dummy parses value added, make them challenging. The dummy is a combat dummy, and you have to dodge AoE’s, direct damage, and snare like effects. Add in a couple virtual bodies around that you need to rez in a certain amount of time or you fail. In between all this movement/blocking/rezzing, you dps the dummy. At the end of a timer, you’re given a score -based on how many attacks you avoided, how fast you rezzed, how much damage you did. Think akin to the Xmen Danger Room. THEN you’d actually be practicing, while playing something at least ‘resembling’ the game.

Good lord, the amount of nonsense that gets posted on these forums ...

In Destiny, you shoot your gun. In Call of Duty, you shoot your gun. There's no point in "practice" because the practice wouldn't apply to the actual game. You're not working through a complex rotation or managing DoTs or resources or buff/debuff uptimes in these games. There's no point at all in drawing an analogy between ESO combat and basic FPS combat.

In ESO you hit the target skeleton to optimize your build, to test variations in gear and skills and CP and group comp, and to perfect your rotation. Would it be better to do this in actual combat scenarios? Maybe, but that's hard to do by yourself and time-consuming even with a group. Remember the Bloodspawn and Slimecraw DPS test days? I do. It was a pain. We really want to get a group of 12 and reset vHRC over and over again to practice on Ra Kotu? Why do that when we have easier options?

Spend enough time in front of the target skeleton and the rotation becomes ingrained. When the rotation becomes ingrained, you can focus on mechanics and the other stuff you actually need to do in game. And besides all of that, numerous fights in this game are just stack and burn. What you do on a target skeleton is exactly what you do on Ra Kotu or the Foundation Stone Atro or Valariel or most dungeon bosses.

And your point about practice is pretty ridiculous. Lots of people "practice" for things they don't get paid for every day. They're called hobbies. Some people find it fun to spend time optimizing their ESO combat skills. Other people have fun posting dumb nonsense on the forums of a game they don't even play. We probably have a different opinion on which one of those hobbies is "sad."

Your post lost whatever semblance of integrity it had when you resorted to name-calling. Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument, and people recognize that fact fairly quickly when reading one.

You clearly don't understand what "ad hominem" means.

Ad hominem: an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

“Some people find it fun to spend time optimizing their ESO combat skills. Other people have fun posting dumb nonsense on the forums of a game they don't even play. We probably have a different opinion on which one of those hobbies is "sad."

I rest my case.

As was said in a previous post, people are just as entitled to post about a facet of the game that they think is detrimental, as are those who post in defense of that facet. Furthermore, I even stated that I had participated in the parsing fervor, but began to notice how setting that gateway doesn’t always lead to better parses, but more “imaginative” ways to parse.

Take Alcast for example. His parses rarely contain the skills he even recommends, and he pulls numbers that guilds I’m in wouldn’t accept. Even cheesing, his parses are not considered competitive. My guild has a threshold for 52k solo on a dummy for stamblades to make it on the team. I thought they were an anomaly, but now even casual guilds want 45k. Like fashion or music, things trickle down to the masses from “those on high.” Suddenly BiS becomes an essential element of participation.

Not to mention the inherent difference between PC and console. I play primarily on console, where there are no buff timers, notifications, are anywhere near the latency of PC. Yet like what was said previously, this hasn’t stopped the PC modality from becoming commonplace. I have a pc account and went through thr motions on a dummy recently; it’s truly night and day. My parse was 5k higher on PC, and loads easier to achieve. The problem the masses adopting the same standards is that some are far easier to obtain than other. It’s why high school athletes aren’t measured against the criteria for professional players.

I never stated I didn’t understand the necessity of parses, in fact I said the opposite, but my point was about the ubiquity with which content even for casual gamers has become prohibitive.

Also, regardless if I’ve topped my playing a game, that doesn’t mean the game doesn’t interest me. I’ve played ESO since launch, but couldn’t accept any longer the time/energy it takes to stay competitive, even casually. If parses were dynamic and that facet of the game felt integrated into the whole, Id be much more interested to participate. But when a multiplayer game becomes portioned to spend longer and longer stretches of time solo with a target dummy as your teammate, we’ve lost something along the way.

Which guild would that be?

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

Oh is it really a weak argument, or is it just you avoiding my point, the top players that completed it back then with lower dps can obviously complete it now too with lower dps, but the people that are trying to complete it now are average people, those that still have deaths on mechanics for the 100th time, if there are constantly 2 deaths in a HM attempt that is seriously going to gimp the group's whatever chance of completing, even for top groups.

If playing for fun is your thing then yes, there's no reason to bring more dps than what's required, but the real issue is when these people that play for fun talk about content they haven't even done like they're experts or try to get in high end guilds with 0 effort and are baffled that they weren't taken, it's a common occurence here on forums that people mention guilds should lower their standards, but they never stop to think that they maybe should get better themselves.
And why don't I play for fun? If I didn't have fun doing what I do in game then I wouldn't play, it's simple, the fact that I find fun in doing something else than you do doesn't give you the right to tell me I don't play for fun.

How come are you in the real one? Does the real one have some set rules against practicing on a dummy in a video game? For your information, there are millions of gamers in this world, by your logic not one of them should practice, and if they do, they don't live in the real world, that's something many people could consider an insult, and yet again shows that the most toxic of players are still the casuals that come up with these statements. Now I don't want to get personal, even though you do, but maybe you should try to be more open minded because that mindset of yours isn't gonna do well for you, especially when you're gonna grow older.

I'll ask kindly to refrain from making assumptions about my real life, we're on a video game forum here, if you think you can resort to statements such as "act like human for a bit" then you have lost from the start, you don't know me in real life, neither even in game, I'm probably not the person you think I am, search elsewhere.

Bolded #1: Yes it is. Here is the thing about elitists. They act like they are the only ones that can do end game content. Because they make up this fantasy world where you have to meet requirements they also make up in order to complete the same content as them. That way they can, in their tiny minds, feel like they are special because no one else can achieve what they did and in order to do so they have to work really hard at it.

The amount of nonsense you write amazes me. Why don't you grab 11 of your casual friends and show us how vAS+2, vMoL HM or vCR+3 is done? Why do you even care about the requirements in "elite" guilds if you can do it without them?
For an easy start you could also do vMA no death. If I remember correctly I didn't get asked for a dummy parse before going in there.

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

In many veteran trials, there are bosses where its a dps race against mechanics and the more you are able to complete your rotation, the better for the overall group.

This.

It’s easier these days to dps down bosses rather than to learn mechanics. It puts a lot of pressure on casuals who want to do endgame content. Some people enjoy it, some people don’t. There are guilds with lower requirements.

The problem to me it seems lies in player attitudes.

Hopefully we’ll soon get swords made of math since this game is all about numbers anyway.

Beating up the skeleton is just another way of feeling you are making progress in something, just like doing main quest or hunting for achievements. It gives you the same feeling of success when you practice your rotation and hit more and more as you get better at it.