New Motifs in the Crown Store Ruining The Market

munster1404 · July 2018

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I’d rather just buy them from the crown store.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yeah, the crown store versions of farmable motifs are priced crazy high (because it's a convenience/skip-the-farming thing). I seriously doubt that people are buying enough 5k Crown motif books to depress the market.

(Checking TTT, the Fang Lair chest motif is still running 250-400k. Yep, those prices are tanking. /sarcasm)

My 150K crown bank says bring it on!

NupidStoob · July 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Good, screw the market.

If it were anything else then a video game economy then quite frankly I'd be against it because economy's are necessary things but quite frankly, these styles, are not that great, and charging insane ammounts for them was dumb anyway.

It's cosmetics, not gear. And the value decreased drastically because of the outfit system anyway, because of ease of access.

This. Any videogame market can crash and burn. I want to play the game, and not pay some botter 60k gold/200 corn flower.

You do realise that the reason prices are actually so low are botters? Same for tempers.

ResTandRespeC · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Good, screw the market.

Lol? Time for someone too go back to their singelplayer game I hear.

For having a opinion? Are you truely so fragile?

With the outfit system released, all we need is the motif and a costume slot. This ease of access changes expectation of price. IE, before, it was such a status symbol that it was essentially a luxury, you went the entire mile and crafted the gear. Now? It's applicable to anyone, and the price is ajusted to meet that.

And the rise of the crownstore motif is there because of ZOS seeing money to be made off players who simply dont run these dungeons on vet, which is a large portion of the populace.

It's just the way of things. Gonna have to get used to it.

Id say at least 80% of people woith new motif's, before outfits didn't even use crafted gear as there main gear set if even they ever crafted themselves a set. The new outfit system honestly increased motif prices until the extended event crashed the market.

The reason for the increase was exactly as you stated, ease of use. Because of the fact that you could actually use the styles, instead of just having them! The crown store gifting definitely had a large impact on the prices of the new motifs.

As far as the new weklynar motifs goes u think it's absolutely ridiculous. They keep making their crown store marketing tactics more and more aggressive and people are eating it up. I have no problem with motifs being hard to get and don't care if they sell motifs like they've done in the past (waiting 2-3 months to release them in the store or crates), but to implement a system that where it is insanely hard to get something to push more people in to crown store purchases alone is disheartening, but to then put them out on the same day in the crown store to give the incentive of exclusivity to those who pay real world money, and to then allow crown "gifting" (selling) to basically all but destroy any incentive to get them in game is ridiculous.

ResTandRespeC · July 2018

MattT1988 wrote: »

The motif market needed a bit of a crash anyway. Whenever new motifs come out the prices that people put on them were outrageous and this is coming from someone who farms them and flips my doubles at the guild trader. Your still going to earn plenty of gold from them just not 100,000 freakin gold for a daggers page. You’ll still make a bucket load of gold from the motif, just not an outrageous amount. Don’t be greedy.

Idk if its really greedy though. I don't farm or buy motifs, but it's honestly the buyers who set the market not the sellers. If its not selling at one price, people will relist at a smaller price until it does. Likewise the motifs take a lot of work to get. The idea behind them originally was to get people to keep running the dungeons and to breathe live back into content. The dungeons are very challenging and it took people many hours and a whole lot of pots to get to the point they could to farm them efficiently. The base line standard is about 25k an hour just farming mobs for gold. All the progression, organizing of teams, potions, and time all contribute to their cost. Of course when they're new they cost a bunch as everyone is buying them up. That's how everything works. If you care about having the new shiny item ASAP you pay more. Wait a few months to get em cheep.

dogman · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Good, screw the market.

If it were anything else then a video game economy then quite frankly I'd be against it because economy's are necessary things but quite frankly, these styles, are not that great, and charging insane ammounts for them was dumb anyway.

It's cosmetics, not gear. And the value decreased drastically because of the outfit system anyway, because of ease of access.

I hear you, but, this game's economy is focused around the motif-rage, everybody wants the newest motif book and they'll pay anything to get it, in my opinion it's nice. To be honest, the prices, atleast on the EU server, are quite high right now, but, still, they sell fast. (and they dont look bad let me have my skimpy necromancer fantasy!!)

As per topic, I kinda agree that, you shouldn't give the crown option right off the bat but I understand why they did it with these motif books. Scalecaller and Fang lair, to the /average/ player, it's not a cake walk. It's hard, especially the hard mode can seem impossible for some, so they let them have it.

ceil420 · July 2018

I will never shed tears for the financial woes of players crying about not being able to jack up the prices on their merchandise. Ever lower, I say, even if it's on something I have no interest in (like, say, Fang Lair motifs).

ResTandRespeC · July 2018

dogman wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Good, screw the market.

If it were anything else then a video game economy then quite frankly I'd be against it because economy's are necessary things but quite frankly, these styles, are not that great, and charging insane ammounts for them was dumb anyway.

It's cosmetics, not gear. And the value decreased drastically because of the outfit system anyway, because of ease of access.

I hear you, but, this game's economy is focused around the motif-rage, everybody wants the newest motif book and they'll pay anything to get it, in my opinion it's nice. To be honest, the prices, atleast on the EU server, are quite high right now, but, still, they sell fast. (and they dont look bad let me have my skimpy necromancer fantasy!!)

As per topic, I kinda agree that, you shouldn't give the crown option right off the bat but I understand why they did it with these motif books. Scalecaller and Fang lair, to the /average/ player, it's not a cake walk. It's hard, especially the hard mode can seem impossible for some, so they let them have it.

Thats why they're gunna make it the average. The release a couple bad looking motif books with 1 good looking 1 that is grind your face off insane and release that one same day in the crown store. Weklynar here we come

ADarklore · July 2018

So... someone would rather support extortion... which is what I consider of the exorbitant prices charged by players in the game with new and rare motifs! I'm all for driving DOWN the prices of motifs so they are available for ALL players, including those who don't have the time to farm for in-game gold to pay these outrageous prices.

Cryptical · July 2018

Just going to point out that the anniversary event has zero impact on the fang and scale motif price fluctuations, because those came out after it was over.

Feanor · July 2018

„The market“ is either ridiculous prices or selling junk anyway.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · July 2018

Welcome to my world I keep howling but nobody is listening :V

JKorr · July 2018

Iluvrien wrote: »

You accept the placement of crafting items (motifs) in the Crown Store at all.

All sympathy for your position is forfeit.

Remember that "cosmetic" thing? Yeah, wearing armor that looks a certain way isn't giving anyone any uber super duper advantage.

Some players, myself included, are never going to be "uber leet" enough to farm the motifs from vet dungeons. I know the only way I will ever get the gold together to buy some of the motifs [250k for one piece of it, and there are 7 pieces of armor, plus how many weapons?] is to turn the game I want to play for fun, enjoyment and relaxation into a full time job. I'm sure if I spend every single minute of my playing time on farming mats, refining and selling the tempers, etc. I could eventually accumulate enough gold. However that kinda seems to be rather the exact opposite of why I play the game.

On the other hand, I sub, and have since the beginning. Crowns, when there are no senche mounts/pets in the store for direct purchase, accumulate for me. So I buy the motifs with the saved crowns, and keep playing the game for fun.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who want to keep cosmetic items out of the crown store so they can charge ridiculous amounts of gold for them. YMMV

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · July 2018

The Free Market Provides

ProfessorKittyhawk · July 2018

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I’d rather just buy them from the crown store.

Same. I've not been a fan of the whole dividing motifs into pages for a while now, ever since the introduction of the Dwemer motif. That one wasn't as bad a farm as the newer ones, which are gated behind veteran dungeons and trials or pvp. With more and more motifs being added all the time, it becomes a full time job for those who don't necessarily have the time to spend farming all these motifs to complete their collection. So having the option of spending real world money on the rare ones to cut out the needless farming is perfectly acceptable in my eyes. For those against it or those who enjoy farming, by all means. Farm away. For all the rest, there's the crown store.

ladymarisab14_ESO · July 2018

Aren't there variants of the motif that *only* come from farming the vet dungeon? For people like me with not as much time to devote to content, this set up should theoretically work for most types of gamers. I can buy the motifs in the crown store, but there's a part of it that I can't easily get, which *should* make both sides less cranky. From what I can see, at least an attempt was made to make things appealing to the majority of their players.

I won't get into the whole argument of market and pricing, that's whole 'nother beast of which this is "issue" is a symptom, not a cause.

Vercingetorix · July 2018

Post stupid prices, get stupid prizes.

5k Crowns is significantly cheaper than 200k gold for 1/14 of a motif with only one drop per run that requires 3 other well-geared, highly experienced players that have open schedules to do the farming. If you want to make a sale, try posting more reasonable prices for your goods next time. Otherwise, folks will simply bypass you and go straight to the Crown Store for themselves and their friends. Players are literally voting against you with their wallet.

radiostar · July 2018

This "market system" hardly needs even MORE protection. No sale.

Violynne · July 2018

SupremeRissole wrote: »

When the bloodroot motifs became farmable, they sold in trader for 80k-200k.

Translation: because of price gouging and price fixing, traders were making bank on the 5% who has the gold to pay such ridiculous prices.

Everyone else goes without.

Screw the market, and while I'm at it, screw ZoS' batsh*t insane $50 price tag over it.

But more importantly: screw the gamers who buy this crap, which fuels the grand level of stupid.

This isn't even a cosmetic good, which requires even more sales if people don't have resources to even make the new outfit.

I'm cookin' me some smores watching the trader market burn.

Katahdin · July 2018

Honestly,

I've run vet Scalecaller and Fang Lair three times each now. My groups on all runs were not able to beat HM but did complete regular vet. I saw 2 motifs drop in 6 runs with 4 people, so 2 in 24 on vet non HM and none were mine.

So unless I can get a group that can complete HM reliably, I'll never be able to farm those motifs. At 200K-250K per page right now, it will take forever to farm the gold as well.

I have been working at my job for 20+ years.
5k crowns is lunch money for 3 days at the deli, even at full price.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that it is more efficient to just buy them on the crown store and skip all the aggravation, grind and price inflation the l33t few that can manage it charge. I'm seriously thinking about just buying them and be done with it.

Apache_Kid · July 2018

Completely agree with OP. Releasing the motifs in the crown store the same day they went live in the dungeons is a giant slap in the face to anyone who spent anytime learning the dungeons or progressing the HMs for those dungeons. The newest DLC dungeons are supposed to be the most (or some of the most) difficult dungeons in the game and people should want to learn to do these dungeons. Want the reward? Play the content.

All of the people complaining about expensive motifs and "the market" are the same people who can't do these dungeons and don't want to take the time to get good enough to do these dungeons (which on non-HM are not even that difficult). If you don't want to take the time to improve as a player to run the content then you SHOULD have to pay lots of gold to bypass having to spend all that time becoming a halfway decent player.

Skilled PvE players should have ways to maximize gold income from using their skills to beat the most difficult content and selling the spoils. To say they didn't affect the market is a joke. So many players like myself want to collect all the motifs and they want to do it right away. Every single one of those crown store motif sales is 100s of thousands of gold out of the pocket of other players who actually want to dedicate time to running the content in its intended form.

There should be 1-2 month delay at the minimum for these being in the store.

Hey also on a side note, every single one of you that purchased the fang lair and scalecaller style in the crown store? Have you seen the new Welkynar motif grind coming? Yeah your purchase just reinforced to them that their idea of making the grind for the motif so bad that collectors just buy it from the crown store on day 1 is a good idea. We are now to the point of them making insurmountable grinds just to drive sales in the crown store for convenience. Quit spending money on this broken *** game.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Good, screw the market.

Lol? Time for someone too go back to their singelplayer game I hear.

Kinda irrelevant whether SP or MP.

I agreed with bother of the first two comments. I managed to sell a scalecaller page first day for like 110k, but nothing after that. I am fine with that. I'll just read them.

I have made a lot of money in the past selling motif pages, but I also like things being cheap. I have played the market, but I would also be happy if that was not a thing and their was massive deflation.

such a small percentage of players make good money from selling stuff, I have no interest in protecting that. The problem isn't that it is killing the market though. The problem is that gold is going to people who spend real money instead of people who gather items for sale by playing the game. It is encouraging people to replace gameplay with money spending.

RoyalPink06 · July 2018

Current market value of Fang Lair Chests motif on PS4-NA is 400k+. I think the market can afford to be taken down a notch or 2, just sayin’.

Kiralyn2000 · July 2018

ladymarisab14_ESO wrote: »

Aren't there variants of the motif that *only* come from farming the vet dungeon?

Nah, those are the regular ones. The 'exclusive bound variants' are in the battlegrounds.... another bribe to try to get people playing pvp. (and they apparently drop in pages not chapters... so it takes multiple drops to get all weights of Fanged Worm chest, for instance.)

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The simple fact that there is a 100g/crown conversion should tell you that something is really wrong.

Crown sellers allowing the ratio to be only 100:1 is their own damn fault. Given how much gold there is floating around in this game, that seems way too low.

Thinking to games I play that have official cash-currency 'exchanges' in them.... Star Trek Online. They have a in-game-farmable currency called Dilithium. You can only get 8000 of it a day per character, and it's used for a bunch of useful stuff. You can also exchange it for their local cash currency, Zen. The in-game exchange rate varies by how much dilithium is floating around, but for the last year or so has hovered around 250-300:1 This is for a limited-farming currency that is in demand for plenty of other things, so it has good value to the players. And it takes 300 to get one Zen.

Meanwhile, in ESO, people are asking a mere 100 of an infinitely-farmable currency that the economy is packed full of, for their crowns? That's it? I would have expected a much higher exchange rate.

Although I suppose that people having to go through the whole "make deal in chat, buy gift, trade gold" thing makes it more awkward than the game having a built in & moderated currency exchange feature. Doing that in ESO would be totally broken, though - the super-moneybags players would have a brand market to flip & control, buying up all 'cheap' Crowns with their 100mil+ bankrolls and jacking the prices higher for Even Moar Profit!™ An exchange only works without rampant inflation & corruption in other games because the in-game currency used is a somehow-limited one.

Cryptical · July 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

Honestly,

I've run vet Scalecaller and Fang Lair three times each now. My groups on all runs were not able to beat HM but did complete regular vet. I saw 2 motifs drop in 6 runs with 4 people, so 2 in 24 on vet non HM and none were mine.

So unless I can get a group that can complete HM reliably, I'll never be able to farm those motifs. At 200K-250K per page right now, it will take forever to farm the gold as well.

I have been working at my job for 20+ years.
5k crowns is lunch money for 3 days at the deli, even at full price.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that it is more efficient to just buy them on the crown store and skip all the aggravation, grind and price inflation the l33t few that can manage it charge. I'm seriously thinking about just buying them and be done with it.

I’ve run vet scale about a couple dozen times for these motifs. I’m down to needing 3 chapters to complete the scale book, and have a few duplicates for sale for 40 or 50k. The drop rate is about 50/50 on straight vet.

In my experience, the drop rate is much higher than you have seen, and from my own price research they are not selling for as much as you think.

Fang... is harder to get a group for. I’ve still gotten 50/50ish motif rate there.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ladymarisab14_ESO wrote: »

Aren't there variants of the motif that *only* come from farming the vet dungeon?

Nah, those are the regular ones. The 'exclusive bound variants' are in the battlegrounds.... another bribe to try to get people playing pvp. (and they apparently drop in pages not chapters... so it takes multiple drops to get all weights of Fanged Worm chest, for instance.)

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The simple fact that there is a 100g/crown conversion should tell you that something is really wrong.

Crown sellers allowing the ratio to be only 100:1 is their own damn fault. Given how much gold there is floating around in this game, that seems way too low.

There are a ton of crowns floating around though due to many people who sub but have no interest in crown store cosmetics. I have nothing of interest left to buy in the crown store and am sitting on 5500 crowns. If I wasn't only an on and off subber, I would probably have around 20k crowns at this point.

I do not buy progress, so I would never spend real money on a motif, but I can see why some don't value their crowns.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · July 2018

I'd rather buy them with Crowns than give my gold to greedy farmers.

Feanor · July 2018

@Apache_Kid

Buyoant Armiger took no skill to get at all, but the prices were ridiculous as well due to it being artificially made scarce. I mean, not every motif should be like Mercenary or Celestial. But above 20k per page shouldn’t be the norm if you want the majority of players being able to enjoy these things.

Iluvrien · July 2018

JKorr wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

You accept the placement of crafting items (motifs) in the Crown Store at all.

All sympathy for your position is forfeit.

Remember that "cosmetic" thing? Yeah, wearing armor that looks a certain way isn't giving anyone any uber super duper advantage.

Some players, myself included, are never going to be "uber leet" enough to farm the motifs from vet dungeons. I know the only way I will ever get the gold together to buy some of the motifs [250k for one piece of it, and there are 7 pieces of armor, plus how many weapons?] is to turn the game I want to play for fun, enjoyment and relaxation into a full time job. I'm sure if I spend every single minute of my playing time on farming mats, refining and selling the tempers, etc. I could eventually accumulate enough gold. However that kinda seems to be rather the exact opposite of why I play the game.

On the other hand, I sub, and have since the beginning. Crowns, when there are no senche mounts/pets in the store for direct purchase, accumulate for me. So I buy the motifs with the saved crowns, and keep playing the game for fun.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who want to keep cosmetic items out of the crown store so they can charge ridiculous amounts of gold for them. YMMV

A purely cosmetic item is something that is applied only to the character using it at the time.

Motifs are applied to a character, at which point that character is able to craft armour to be given to any other player with that effect. Motifs are crafting items with a cosmetic effect but not a cosmetic nature.

If you factor in the effect that motifs have on writ drops etc. then they move even further away from the purely "cosmetic" category.

You know what? I can't farm vet dungeons either. Never even stepped into one. I am not a seller of these motifs, I have nothing to gain by opposing the inclusion of motifs in the Crown Store. I still do though. Why? Because I am holding onto a principle.

Since I can't farm them, I have to save gold to buy them. in fact, even though I am an ESO+ subscriber and have crowns to burn I still buy them with gold. I buy everything with gold. Last week I finally bought the Lake Amaya house in Vvardenfell. For gold. I saved up 1.3 Million gold to buy it when I have 31K crowns in the bank. It took a month. It felt good to achieve it too. I managed it even though I have a (more than) full time job, and am a father to a 15 month old son, and am a husband too.

I didn't turn the game into a job, I just sold off the tempers I received while refining materials for writs. An activity I was already doing.

You seem to want to classify me as someone who wants to keep these things out of the Crown Store for personal gain. I don't. I don't want them in the Crown Store on principle. I don't want anything in the Crown Store. I don't want there to be Crown Store at all.

Apache_Kid · July 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Apache_Kid

Buyoant Armiger took no skill to get at all, but the prices were ridiculous as well due to it being artificially made scarce. I mean, not every motif should be like Mercenary or Celestial. But above 20k per page shouldn’t be the norm if you want the majority of players being able to enjoy these things.

Armiger and this are not comparable situations for me because of how they are obtained. For the record i think the astonishingly low drop rate for them isn't fair. Fang Lair about Scalecaller takes about 25 and 20 minutes respectively with a good group and you get a 50%chance at a drop. You could farm chests for countless days and not get an armiger motif. Not really the same.

Higher gold prices for motifs is good in my opinion because then players are either incentivized to learn to run the content or do other parts of the game to make gold to afford them.

MMOs used to be about getting your players to spend as much time as possible running the same content for rewards but that has evolved to now getting as many players as possible to spend real world money to get the rewards without running the content. I don't like that and it rubs me the wrong way. The upcoming welkenyr motif is a symptom of this. You think fang lair and scalecaller prices are high? Just wait. I wonder how many copies that one will sell in the store?

BozzyTheDrummer · July 2018

I probably won’t have the chance to get these motifs for some time, as I don’t think i’m Good enough yet to attempt these vet dungeons, but I do not like the idea that they are available in the crown store. I feel like that just ruins the fun of getting the pages/boom. I feel like it ruins the appreciation when you do get a piece or the whole book, because I know joe-blow over there could have just bought the book. I like the idea of these not being available in the crown store immediately, rather after a bit of time.