Joy_Division wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as i understand only the duration of the buff seems to be a problem with channeled focus.

Is that correct?

So its not the main aspect of the skill, the now finally moving with target Major Defence buff, but the secondary effect that needs some more tweaking to account for the increased cost?

@Joy_Division, now don't you think someone could persuade someone working on combat design to just do some "tweaking" during the PTS cycle ? After all the channeled focus morph ONLY has the magica sustain linked to it, and not 2 minor buffs like restoring focus or a group utility and a minor buff like wardens and sorcs, at least the only minor buff should reflect new duration of the ability (18s on PTS / 15 s on live) as well as the increased costs.

Someone can try

I'd very much prefer the original way but looks like we're stuck with this method

Really, you are not in for mobile defence ?
Then just ask them to change channeled focus back, but leave the changes to restoring focus and base skill.

Can't be much of a problem to do it.

Is the resistances even worth it for anyone outside of pvp? Tanks usually end up at cap resistances anyway without a measly 2k extra resistance.

Elsterchen wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as i understand only the duration of the buff seems to be a problem with channeled focus.

Is that correct?

So its not the main aspect of the skill, the now finally moving with target Major Defence buff, but the secondary effect that needs some more tweaking to account for the increased cost?

@Joy_Division, now don't you think someone could persuade someone working on combat design to just do some "tweaking" during the PTS cycle ? After all the channeled focus morph ONLY has the magica sustain linked to it, and not 2 minor buffs like restoring focus or a group utility and a minor buff like wardens and sorcs, at least the only minor buff should reflect new duration of the ability (18s on PTS / 15 s on live) as well as the increased costs.

Someone can try

I'd very much prefer the original way but looks like we're stuck with this method

Really, you are not in for mobile defence ?
Then just ask them to change channeled focus back, but leave the changes to restoring focus and base skill.

Can't be much of a problem to do it.

Old as in 4 years ago original Restoring Focus

I am curious as to why templar is always getting nerfed. When was the last time templar was overperforming? I can't really think of a time. Maybe back when they had that blind skill for pvp, but beyond that basically never.

I guess jesus beam damage increase was a buff. Yay? It was already high.

Kadoozy wrote: »

I am curious as to why templar is always getting nerfed. When was the last time templar was overperforming? I can't really think of a time. Maybe back when they had that blind skill for pvp, but beyond that basically never.

I guess jesus beam damage increase was a buff. Yay? It was already high.

Actually, Jesus Beam has been a DPS-loss ever since the multiple nerfs placed upon it, several update patches ago.
Jesus Beam is a channeled ability, meaning you are making yourself very vulnerable by using it since you cannot perform other attacks or actions while it is being channeled. Because of that trade-off; yes, it should be a high-damage ability. However, it is not one, because it has been nerfed multiple times. A player can do more damage via animation-cancelling light & heavy attacks and spamming other instant-cast abilities, like Force Shock/morphs from the Destro skill tree, among others.
As of this current patch, Jesus Beam (both morphs, tbh) are a complete, total waste of an ability slot for Templars.

That should not be the case, especially for a class-specific ability. Every class has access to Force Shock, etc.
There is nothing currently positively unique or special about Jesus Beam. Why make yourself vulnerable (unable to block/dodge, or perform other attacks/abilities/synergies, etc.) by channeling an ability that also does less overall DPS in the same amount of time in comparison to using spammable-abilities (instant-cast), weaving attacks, and animation-canceling? Templar is twice-cursed with this problem, because Dark Flare also has a very long casting time that, again, which kind of makes it very undesirable and useless.

It's more of a problem with ESO's combat system: weaving, animation-cancelling, etc.
Channeled abilities should not only be equal and on-par with the above, but perform slightly better due to the fact that you are making yourself vulnerable by channeling them instead of insta-casting them in the first place.

I've been playing Templar for 4 years, since ESO PC-NA launch. Just saying.

Elsterchen wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Is the resistances even worth it for anyone outside of pvp? Tanks usually end up at cap resistances anyway without a measly 2k extra resistance.

For a DD in medium its worth the almost 8k the skill offers (inside rune), but the 5,2k outside are helping too.

Sorry, I think my original comment was a bit unclear. Using the skill has always been worth it for the major protection and resolve you got, which now is given as part of the overall buff.

My statement was more asking if ~2k resistances while standing in the rune was worth paying nearly double the cost to cast the skill, since overall that seems to be the trade off.

For me, even for tanks, the answer is no. I would much rather have more magic (overall sustain) than 2k extra resistances. I would certainly rather have that sustain over resistances as a dps, and as a healer. I can't think of a situation where I would sacrifice my sustain for resistances. Maybe a specific PVP build, where I could build for more sustain other places. In the PVE meta, however where sustain is simply not built in, this sets templar behind all other classes in every role imho.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as i understand only the duration of the buff seems to be a problem with channeled focus.

Is that correct?

So its not the main aspect of the skill, the now finally moving with target Major Defence buff, but the secondary effect that needs some more tweaking to account for the increased cost?

@Joy_Division, now don't you think someone could persuade someone working on combat design to just do some "tweaking" during the PTS cycle ? After all the channeled focus morph ONLY has the magica sustain linked to it, and not 2 minor buffs like restoring focus or a group utility and a minor buff like wardens and sorcs, at least the only minor buff should reflect new duration of the ability (18s on PTS / 15 s on live) as well as the increased costs.

Someone can try

I'd very much prefer the original way but looks like we're stuck with this method

What gets my goat is that once upon a time in the very early days of the game (Beta) Templar had the most sustain of any class. Everyone's knickers got in a twist about this and now Templar literally has the worst sustain of all classes. Where the hell is the balance in that? Magplar sustain isn't as much of a problem as Stamplar sustain where it is literally nonexistent. I'm not even sure Stamplar is viable without heavily building for stamina sustain via sets, CP, everything. The Stamplar build is very narrow and boring. Its feasible but it is also constricting. I watch as magplar buddies mix and match a thousand sets freely... and inside I seethe just a little bit. I'm not mad at them, I'm angry with the designers who can't *8a!@ understand why this frustrates me!!!

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

On another topic I'd like to know If I have this right: They're removing the Magicka Recovery from the Rune?

No, the recovery is still there. But the recovery:cost ratio is now worse than it used to be (especially since you can't refresh the recovery duration by moving back into the rune), so while they technically haven't altered the recovery numbers, it's a net nerf to sustain.

Haven’t had the chance to check it out on PTS, but sounds like channeled focus gives the same buffs as on live (major resolve, major ward, and x magicka every .5 seconds). But those buffs are now applied for 15 seconds upon cast of the skill instead of for 8 seconds upon standing in the rune. Standing in the rune no longer refreshes the duration, but instead adds an additional ~2.6k physical and spell resistance.[/quote]

I think the restoring focus morph is currently 15 seconds, while channeled focus is a bit longer, 18 i think. Channeled focus is the one that gives magicka recovery. The 8 seconds is how long you keep the buff after leaving the circle.

I like the mobility aspect, the cost should be left alone though.

Joy_Division wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO - the recovery is still there, it's just a flat 15 seconds (as opposed to potentially 26) and the cost of the spell is nearly doubled.

So, the PTS version could be a little better in certain scenarios and it could be a lot worse in others. It's a mixed bag, which is unfortunate.

I mean we're all getting used to Siroria so moving into and out of a small circle when required is becoming normal. To then 'fix' it for Templars by making it worse is even more annoying given the PvE meta.

Actual base costs are 1890 and 1080, so 810 magicka less and ~43% cost reduction
New base costs will be 2700 and 1891, so 809 magicka less (why 1 magicka difference ? ...) and ~30% cost reduction
At least a 1543 cost of Channeled Focus would have been more logical to keep the percentage of reduction equal, not the flat value.
Even if i think the cost shouldn't have been increased at all for this skill.

To add to the cost issue of Rune Focus, there is something else bothering me with this skill, why is it proc-ing Olorime's circle ? You can't consider this skill a healing skill, even if he's in the healing tree of the Templar.

for me this is just another proof that the devs never or rarely see the whole picture of a class.. which is kinda sad.
I mean, the talk was about the "house" identity of the templars, but we were not happy with it, since the benefits were small and the PVE and PVP playstile demmanded mobility. So allright, devs go and say "mates, they need mobility, screw the rune thing, make it stick to player, thats what the reps sad!" but they realize that that would kill the house, so they gonna give benefit to staying inside the rune, which is neat.

But next day, they think about it again and come to the conclusion that this ability now is to overloaded and powerfull. first dev goes "Mates, we need to nerf it a little, its just too good now!" and they come up with the idea that we only stay inside the run for the resistances, not because we need the recovery, so they increase the cost and increase the resistances inside the rune, which is great for some, but worse for most...

If the changes go life, they completly gutted the ability for magplars, since we are all better off with using spell symmetry. templar tanks dont exist anyways, and the new channeled focus wont draw more out of the playerbase. Stamplars made their points a loong long while ago, and the focus changes dont help that weakpoint either...

i really dont get it, i would like, but i dont...

NobleX35 wrote: »

I was afraid this was going to happen...the dev teams response to underperforming skills is to buff them in a certain aspect, but then nerf them in another EVEN THOUGH THE SKILL WAS UNDERPERFORMING WHICH MEANS IT ONLY NEEDS THE BUFF...I swear they do this all the time and it is ridiculous...

They only do this to wardens and templars (and DKs sometimes). Sorcs and NBs get straight buffs all the time.

I think Wrobel secretly just wants everyone to delete their tenplars and wardens.