Sprinting outside of PVP should cost less or nothing at all

lagrue · July 2018

I've always hated stamina bars in pretty much any game - it isn't a fun thing to manage, but in this case it's an absolute annoyance if you're a mage character. Even if you're somewhere like a city you constantly have to stop sprinting every 10 seconds. Sprinting doesn't give any real combat advantage in PVE so I see no reason why it needs to cost as much as it does - or in fact anything at all. There's nothing fun or engaging about constantly monitoring a green bar for something as basic as moving around. For attacking and blocking, sure I get it - but this arbitrary restriction on movement is unenjoyable and overall pointless.

It's the same issue I've had with most ES games to the point where I mod sprinting to have no cost. There's just no reason for it. Even in real life people could wear full heavy armor and sprint 20x longer before tiring - so you can't even say its for realism purposes.

Anyway this is obviously more of a negative for mages. I made suggestions in the past for Magicka versions of things like Sprinting and I'm still echoing that.

ezio45 · July 2018

agreed

Judas Helviaryn · July 2018

This is why we have mounts..

Infinite sprinting should be left to out-of-combat situations, not just to PVP or PVE.

Even in real life people could wear full heavy armor and sprint 20x longer before tiring - so you can't even say its for realism purposes.

I'm gonna ask you to cite your source here. Traditional, full platemail weighs somewhere in the 60-120lb range. Nobody's sprinting with that for long, if at all.

lagrue · July 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

This is why we have mounts..

Infinite sprinting should be left to out-of-combat situations, not just to PVP or PVE.

Even in real life people could wear full heavy armor and sprint 20x longer before tiring - so you can't even say its for realism purposes.

I'm gonna ask you to cite your source here. Traditional, full platemail weighs somewhere in the 60-120lb range. Nobody's sprinting with that for long, if at all.

Well that's not true - a full platemail set weight 55 pounds roughly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour
"A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55lbs).[2] "

This video is a 50 pound set and look at this guy, he's bolting around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

Not only that - but let's consider the fact I am primarily a mage and not even wearing armor to begin with. But even if I was - 50 pounds is NOT alot of weight when it's distributed across your body, especially not for people who are trained for war.

Dextail · July 2018

No.

Completely unneeded change.

This is very much a learn to game issue, the world isn’t “massive” with large bare landscapes with no port locations. It takes barely any time to mount up, rapids and zoom from one side of the map to another.

lagrue · July 2018

Dextail wrote: »

No.

Completely unneeded change.

This is very much a learn to game issue, the world isn’t “massive” with large bare landscapes with no port locations. It takes barely any time to mount up, rapids and zoom from one side of the map to another.

QoL changes often aren't needed - they're just nice to have.

I don't know how you can say the world isn't massive... it is. I don't know about you, but out in the world I have to dismount every 5 seconds to do something, so yeah it might not take long to mount up, but it is annoying to constantly have to do so.

It's also pretty crappy on console trying to go through towns on your mount because it becomes a lagfest and frame drops to ass levels. Sometimes I would just like to go from point A to point B unimpeded.

Look at the Reaper's MArch map if you have it unlocked - the south most wayshrine and boss - on the map they are practically kissing eachother, but I an't run from one to the other without stamina dying. That's crap and not even 2% of the map in one direction.

DanteYoda · July 2018

People (devs included) don't seem understand that fun and realism don't mix...

My take on Stamina in this game is to sell mounts... Everything goes back to what Zos can sell us.. If we all ran around like in real life we'd need no mounts..

What they needed to do is have endless stamina out of battle and make mounts run faster than a player character.. but that defeats the need for leveling up books...

Gulkrim-mur · July 2018

lagrue wrote: »

I've always hated stamina bars in pretty much any game - it isn't a fun thing to manage, but in this case it's an absolute annoyance if you're a mage character. Even if you're somewhere like a city you constantly have to stop sprinting every 10 seconds. Sprinting doesn't give any real combat advantage in PVE so I see no reason why it needs to cost as much as it does - or in fact anything at all. There's nothing fun or engaging about constantly monitoring a green bar for something as basic as moving around. For attacking and blocking, sure I get it - but this arbitrary restriction on movement is unenjoyable and overall pointless.

It's the same issue I've had with most ES games to the point where I mod sprinting to have no cost. There's just no reason for it. Even in real life people could wear full heavy armor and sprint 20x longer before tiring - so you can't even say its for realism purposes.

Anyway this is obviously more of a negative for mages. I made suggestions in the past for Magicka versions of things like Sprinting and I'm still echoing that.

I feel the pain imagine dealing with it mag the in pvp. But that ruins the feels of accomplishment you can slot cp for reduction and even obtain sets for it too. Tbh when in a dungeon or trial how often are you really sprinting around.

Don't forget your mount too. I always found running in pve careless and easy lol.

FinneganFroth · July 2018

[removed quote]

You having to dismount every 5 seconds is either a factor of you working your way through questing or the fact that you farm every node that you see. That is not warranted to change a huge mechanic of a game. If you choose to farm every node, be prepared to run.

Also, why are you running everywhere when there are mounts?

FinneganFroth · July 2018

I think we should stop removing health from people who jump off cliffs: DEBATE.

BretonMage · July 2018

Totally agree. It’s frustrating to have to use your mount just to go from the woodworking station to the blacksmithing station, or basically just to go down the road. I don’t mind using mounts out in the wild, but we should have unlimited sprinting in town at least.

lagrue · July 2018

FinneganFroth wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

FinneganFroth wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

FinneganFroth wrote: »

Stupid and no

Care to elaborate why it's stupid or are you just here to add nothing to the discussion?

No. Dextail added completely logical explanations of why it shouldn't happen and you dismissed those explanations with your own personal griefs. I just figure I'd save myself time.

"The world isn't massive" isn't a logical explanation lol Firstly it's blatantly untrue, and secondly it doesn't change anything even if it was.

You didn't figure that at all though - because he commented after you. You just came here to call somebody stupid and then *** off, but judging by your forum history you tend to do that to everybody so yeah. Have fun.

You having to dismount every 5 seconds is either a factor of you working your way through questing or the fact that you farm every node that you see. That is not warranted to change a huge mechanic of a game. If you choose to farm every node, be prepared to run.

Also, why are you running everywhere when there are mounts?

Yeah I farm materials - which is arguably a bigger part of the game than sprinting is. I don't see how not having a stamina bar is either a massive overhaul or a bad thing for anybody. I mean what does one gain by opposing this idea? I posted videos and info above about why the stamina bar is unrealistic - and it's not fun realistic or not.

Jumping off cliffs as you so eloquently put in your next comment makes perfect sense. In real life you die jumping off a cliff. In real life you DONT have to stop running every 5 seconds unless you're an overweight piece of crap.

Also - did you ever consider it's just not always FUN to be mounted? That maybe I don't want to spend 90% of my game career on horseback? Just because mounts are a thing doesn't mean Sprinting couldn't use some QOL.

I use mounts that vast majority of the time - but depending on what activities you're committed to, it isn't always the best thing to be doing. When I want to farm mats, do quests - or just explore the world, being on horse back at max speed whipping past everything kind of defeats that purpose. But likewise the slower sprinting is made even slower by stamina drain which takes away the enjoyment.

This is a game - fun is important. I don't think I've ever seen anybody say it's actually FUN to manage stamina for sprinting.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

People (devs included) don't seem understand that fun and realism don't mix...

My take on Stamina in this game is to sell mounts... Everything goes back to what Zos can sell us.. If we all ran around like in real life we'd need no mounts..

What they needed to do is have endless stamina out of battle and make mounts run faster than a player character.. but that defeats the need for leveling up books...

You must be new to the game. The game was like that long before the crown store.

Or maybe you don't even play the game, as mount skins are cosmetic and have no impact on your speed apart form acquiring your first horse, which they give away for free now upon leveling.

Some people are obsessed with making everything about the crown store.

DaveMoeDee · July 2018

FinneganFroth wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

FinneganFroth wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

FinneganFroth wrote: »

Stupid and no

Care to elaborate why it's stupid or are you just here to add nothing to the discussion?

No. Dextail added completely logical explanations of why it shouldn't happen and you dismissed those explanations with your own personal griefs. I just figure I'd save myself time.

"The world isn't massive" isn't a logical explanation lol Firstly it's blatantly untrue, and secondly it doesn't change anything even if it was.

You didn't figure that at all though - because he commented after you. You just came here to call somebody stupid and then *** off, but judging by your forum history you tend to do that to everybody so yeah. Have fun.

You having to dismount every 5 seconds is either a factor of you working your way through questing or the fact that you farm every node that you see. That is not warranted to change a huge mechanic of a game. If you choose to farm every node, be prepared to run.

Also, why are you running everywhere when there are mounts?

These is no shortage of locations where you can't mount.

LegendaryMage · July 2018

It's probably not going to happen, so slap on some well fitted traits like I did (I have 3), that helps a bit. You can also put another 5-10% in the CPs if it matters that much to you, and that will help you a bit for sure.

And when sprinting, make sure you always sprint with a speed buff, otherwise it's pointless on a mag char with no sprint speed bonuses.

PrinceDamien · July 2018

Maybe it's not realistic that you can't sprint for longer than that.
But if you want realism we should add that your character has to sleep during the night, or else we get huge debuffs (tired).
And with the short days ingame (also unrealistic short day cycles) we need to sleep alot.

Don't forget that we need to eat several times a day aswell, and drink.

I also always wondered where all the bathrooms are in ESO.
Maybe add some of those that we have to use.

What else is realistic that could be added? hmm...

LegendaryMage · July 2018

PrinceDamien wrote: »

Maybe it's not realistic that you can't sprint for longer than that.
But if you want realism we should add that your character has to sleep during the night, or else we get huge debuffs (tired).
And with the short days ingame (also unrealistic short day cycles) we need to sleep alot.

Don't forget that we need to eat several times a day aswell, and drink.

I also always wondered where all the bathrooms are in ESO.
Maybe add some of those that we have to use.

What else is realistic that could be added? hmm...

We've been eating and drinking for years and not once go to the bathroom, retaining our perfect physique with no problems. Similarly we can go without food and drinks for years and there won't be a single consequence. Yeah, realism is out the way...

That's more for single player RPGs like Modrim.

HappyLittleTree · July 2018

They could fix this by just adding a sprint bar like on mounts xD
and it should be longer if you're a stam character or maybe be like the carryweight thing for horses that the stamina training for mounts also applies to characters^^ so it be even more necessary to level stamina on horses^^

midgetfromtheshire · July 2018

Why not just put more points into sprint reduction with CP? Or wear darkstride or prisoners rags to make the cost effectively 0?

Gnortranermara · July 2018

Such idea. Much wow. Very yes.

BigBragg · July 2018

Press H by default for infinite sprinting.

lagrue · July 2018

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

Why not just put more points into sprint reduction with CP? Or wear darkstride or prisoners rags to make the cost effectively 0?

I have 10% from CP already... and with diminishing returns in the CP System it seems stupid to keep wasting points in there.

Those are Stamina based sets - useless to mages, which I main - why would I neuter my character to sprint more, that's just insane? Not sure those are actual suggestions or if you're trying to troll.

ZOS_JesC · July 2018

Greetings, we've removed several comments that were baiting. This is a reminder to keep comments constructive and free of personal insults. If the conversation can't remain on topic and civil we will close this thread.

midgetfromtheshire · July 2018

lagrue wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

Why not just put more points into sprint reduction with CP? Or wear darkstride or prisoners rags to make the cost effectively 0?

I have 10% from CP already... and with diminishing returns in the CP System it seems stupid to keep wasting points in there.

Those are Stamina based sets - useless to mages, which I main - why would I neuter my character to sprint more, that's just insane? Not sure those are actual suggestions or if you're trying to troll.

Regardless of diminishing returns, you want reduced sprint cost? It's there for you with CP.

Either that or stop playing on your mag toons and go play as a stam.

If not, go back to playing your modded skyrim.

lagrue · July 2018

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

Why not just put more points into sprint reduction with CP? Or wear darkstride or prisoners rags to make the cost effectively 0?

I have 10% from CP already... and with diminishing returns in the CP System it seems stupid to keep wasting points in there.

Those are Stamina based sets - useless to mages, which I main - why would I neuter my character to sprint more, that's just insane? Not sure those are actual suggestions or if you're trying to troll.

Regardless of diminishing returns, you want reduced sprint cost? It's there for you with CP.

Either that or stop playing on your mag toons and go play as a stam.

If not, go back to playing your modded skyrim.

Here's the thing - I'm not stupid - I know what I can do to reduce Stamina costs - I still think a stamina cost on sprinting is arbitrary in the first place. I don't even think that CP Star or gear that does this should exist - it should all be reworked. Change those perks out for something else, and then either naturally reduce the drain, or axe it.

My post isn't me not knowing how to reduce costs - it's me stating I think this system is outright bad design and not needed. Your responses don't discuss that at all.

Other developers like Digital Extremes have realized this and removed it from their game because it does nothing for the gameplay experience. Stamina drain for movement has never been fun for the vast majority of people - and it never will be. So instead of trying to lambaste me with the ways to *** my way around the mechanic - how about we look at the core problem, which is that the mechanic itself functions how it does.

Telling me to stop playing the characters I've played with for years or waste another 30 levels of CP for like 4% of sprint reduction isn't going to solve the issue with the fact sprint stamina is a bad mechanic to begin with. And it's such a small amount it'll buy me 0.5 seconds more sprint at best, which really isn't even anything close to a solution.

It's completely unnecessary, makes no sense, and hurts the characters wearing light gear which makes 0 sense. There's literally no justifying the existence of the mechanic, especially not in how it currently works.

I mean if you look at other ES games - since they do have sprint stamina bars still, the weight of your gear is what determines the stamina drain. People wearing heavy armor are the ones who have to slow down in every other ES game, not the light armor wearer's - and you know what, that's actually logical. If they're going to copy core mechanics of the series - the least they could do is make sure they function the same.

Having an equal drain for everybody in ESO is a big part of the problem - the drain isn't weight based at all, instead chars build for stam automatically don't face this issue, but leaves half of the playerbase left mircomanaging stamina just to move around the game world.