Another PTS cycle, another round of no warden buffs... let's see how they're doing!

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

PC/NA warden representation on leader boards:

HRC: 15/590 (2.5%)
AA: 23/736 (3.1%)
SO: 31/764 (4%)
MoL: 12/665 (1.8%)
HoF: 12/521 (2.9%)
AS: 12/468 (2.6%)
CR: 8/358 (2.2%)
Average: 2.7%

But what about 4-man content, surely wardens are better represented there...

DSA: 8/294 (4.1%)

No other class is below 20% representation.

14 months and 6 major patches later, wardens are still a P2L class. Just making sure you're aware ZOS, because it doesn't seem you are. Thanks!

LeHarrt91 · July 2018

Yeah i was expecting something.

_Ahala_ · July 2018

I hope that there will be some good changes in a future pts increment... but that hope is fading

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2018

_Ahala_ wrote: »

I hope that there will be some good changes in a future pts increment... but that hope is fading

Lol stop sounding like a DK JK

_Ahala_ · July 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

I hope that there will be some good changes in a future pts increment... but that hope is fading

Lol stop sounding like a DK JK

Elsonso · July 2018

Interesting. I wonder how the number of Wardens stacks up against the other classes in the overall population of the game. Maybe ... what ... 1/8th? (edit: 1/16th?)

mb10 · July 2018

Can the arctic blast heal over time be increased?

Nobody wants a 1% max health a second in PvP!!

It's legit like 350 for me on my 28k health build in pvp I tested it today. So ridiculous I am not stacking 70k to just stand there and be annoying to everyone else for my health tick to be 800 a second.

FIX THIS ABILITY.
Increase the HOT to 5% a second at least, not 1%. You get so much more from vines, rapid regen, skill that pulls you to allies etc

LeHarrt91 · July 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Can the arctic blast heal over time be increased?

Nobody wants a 1% max health a second in PvP!!

It's legit like 350 for me on my 28k health build in pvp I tested it today. So ridiculous I am not stacking 70k to just stand there and be annoying to everyone else for my health tick to be 800 a second.

FIX THIS ABILITY.
Increase the HOT to 5% a second at least, not 1%. You get so much more from vines, rapid regen, skill that pulls you to allies etc

I think all the wardens damage skills that scale off of max health need an increase, Gripping Shards and Arctic Blast. Even Polar winds could use an % increase as its unrealistic to run a (as you said) 70K health warden.

arkansas_ESO · July 2018

ZOS pls

I don't want to be forced into stacking max health to be relevant on warden

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

Joy_Division · July 2018

We told them.

Ralamil · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

They never stunned for stamdens, and they're extremely powerful for us, even if they no longer help our group by reducing spell resistance. Cliff racer is dodgeable, sure, but still not reflectable, which gives us a decent means to ignore any DK flapping their wings. As someone who exclusively plays warden in Cyrodiil, making it dodgeable gave it some more counterplay, but hardly broke the skill.

EDIT: Also felt I should mention that I'm really only disagreeing with the particular assertion of yours that I quoted, not your stuff about PvE leaderboard representation.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

Oh good.

So it's useless everywhere now, because of PVP whining.

Well, then, pray tell, how would -you- buff the class? Go into detail.

Torbschka · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP tofo. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

Oh good.

So it's useless everywhere now, because of PVP whining.

Well, then, pray tell, how would -you- buff the class? Go into detail.

Are u kidding? Last pts we have had pages of how to change wardens, with specific passives/skills lol.

I dont even care anymore, but class reps must have had a great impact lol or is this system is just a joke, either way they are *** lol.

Gprime31 · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

PC/NA warden representation on leader boards:

HRC: 15/590 (2.5%)
AA: 23/736 (3.1%)
SO: 31/764 (4%)
MoL: 12/665 (1.8%)
HoF: 12/521 (2.9%)
AS: 12/468 (2.6%)
CR: 8/358 (2.2%)
Average: 2.7%

But what about 4-man content, surely wardens are better represented there...

DSA: 8/294 (4.1%)

No other class is below 20% representation.

14 months and 6 major patches later, wardens are still a P2L class. Just making sure you're aware ZOS, because it doesn't seem you are. Thanks!

I thank zos for NOT making warden pay to win. You should too

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Gprime31 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

PC/NA warden representation on leader boards:

HRC: 15/590 (2.5%)
AA: 23/736 (3.1%)
SO: 31/764 (4%)
MoL: 12/665 (1.8%)
HoF: 12/521 (2.9%)
AS: 12/468 (2.6%)
CR: 8/358 (2.2%)
Average: 2.7%

But what about 4-man content, surely wardens are better represented there...

DSA: 8/294 (4.1%)

No other class is below 20% representation.

14 months and 6 major patches later, wardens are still a P2L class. Just making sure you're aware ZOS, because it doesn't seem you are. Thanks!

I thank zos for NOT making warden pay to win. You should too

Where did I say I wanted warden to be P2W? I just don't want it to be P2L, which it has been since it launched. When you buy a new class in an MMO, you expect it to be as useful as the other classes, not less.

Tryxus · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

MagDen you mean. StamDen's on the opposite end of the spectrum in PvP

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

To the balance team, how would you feel if you bought a new car, but that car didn't come with a steering wheel and was missing a door. You call the dealership to get it fixed, but they ignore you while servicing all of their other customers.

I'd say that's *** customer service, wouldn't you?

And that's exactly how you've been treating your customers since they paid you REAL MONEY for this class 14 months ago. At this point, we'd be happy with just a comment acknowledging the fact that you know we exist. We don't expect you to actually do anything because that seems to be asking too much. At least tell us you won't ever fix the class so we can delete it and play something else.

Mojomonkeyman · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

To the balance team, how would you feel if you bought a new car, but that car didn't come with a steering wheel and was missing a door. You call the dealership to get it fixed, but they ignore you while servicing all of their other customers.

I'd say that's *** customer service, wouldn't you?

And that's exactly how you've been treating your customers since they paid you REAL MONEY for this class 14 months ago. At this point, we'd be happy with just a comment acknowledging the fact that you know we exist. We don't expect you to actually do anything because that seems to be asking too much. At least tell us you won't ever fix the class so we can delete it and play something else.

It's worse than that, everytime we put our car to service hoping for upgrades, they remove more and more of the few functional parts.

Kitty_Quietly · July 2018

I ain’t that great using any class so I can’t comment too much on class balance.

Still, I wonder about the bear speed. I read this: “Increased the Movement Speed of all Monsters summoned from your abilities and Item Sets by 25%.” Is that useful? Sounds good, but I’m not pts person. Anybody notice if it improves warden if even slightly.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Kitty_Quietly wrote: »

I ain’t that great using any class so I can’t comment too much on class balance.

Still, I wonder about the bear speed. I read this: “Increased the Movement Speed of all Monsters summoned from your abilities and Item Sets by 25%.” Is that useful? Sounds good, but I’m not pts person. Anybody notice if it improves warden if even slightly.

I don't thibk it will make a huge difference as the bear didn't have much trouble sticking to a target. When it gets lost, it's due to pathing issues, not being too slow.

_Ahala_ · July 2018

Reason stamden is good while Magden is bad is because stam has more options than mag when it comes to getting snares, stuns, dots, and executes from weapons and becuase the ice mage archetype has been forced into tank magic causing magden to lose many of its damage abilities in the design phase

Takes-No-Prisoner · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

Incorrect. Several MagWarden's on PS4 NA have and frequently make top 10 using MagNB bombing strategy's/Gear.

Bombing MagWarden is very desirable class in group play, right up next to Bombing MagNB.

Spurius_Lucilius · July 2018

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If they buff them they'll make them broken in PVP because of how the class is designed and PVP will scream.

That's just the truth of it, Warden is abandoned for this reason.

They're the worst class in PvP too. Cliff racer is dodgeable now and shalks no longer stun.

Incorrect. Several MagWarden's on PS4 NA have and frequently make top 10 using MagNB bombing strategy's/Gear.

Bombing MagWarden is very desirable class in group play, right up next to Bombing MagNB.

Let me fix the problem in his statement: Magden is the worst Solo PVP Class.
And I think Stamden may do better with Permafrost + Subterranean + Steel Tornado

Feanor · July 2018

I was expecting buffs when they moved the class to the crown store and separated it from Morrowind. It's astonishing they didn't do anything for magWarden while leaving the overpowered stam variant totally intact.

Stibbons · July 2018

Kitty_Quietly wrote: »

I ain’t that great using any class so I can’t comment too much on class balance.

Still, I wonder about the bear speed. I read this: “Increased the Movement Speed of all Monsters summoned from your abilities and Item Sets by 25%.” Is that useful? Sounds good, but I’m not pts person. Anybody notice if it improves warden if even slightly.

I hope that my wardens bear will now catch someone in pvp. They should make the bear streak to enemies so i could use the bear ultimate.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

I would also like to remind ZOS that the community is in agreement that magdens need buffs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/414775/which-class-is-most-in-need-of-a-buff/p1

LanceFoxMcCloud · July 2018

Wow, I'm suprised the representation is even that high on PC. When I hop on tonight I'd be interested to pull up the Xbox NA numbers.
I pretty much just assumed everyone was quitting Warden as I very rarely see another in any type of competitive content now. Good to know I'm not alone in my refusal to quit the class due to being ignored tirelessly. Thank you for keeping this conversation going on the forums!

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

LanceFoxMcCloud wrote: »

Wow, I'm suprised the representation is even that high on PC. When I hop on tonight I'd be interested to pull up the Xbox NA numbers.
I pretty much just assumed everyone was quitting Warden as I very rarely see another in any type of competitive content now. Good to know I'm not alone in my refusal to quit the class due to being ignored tirelessly. Thank you for keeping this conversation going on the forums!

They're mostly in the lower ranks, usually the same players just trying to get another character on the leader board. 99% of them are healers or tanks. I'd be surprised if there was more than 1 DPS on each list.

IxSTALKERxI · July 2018

I guess I'll chime in here, I mainly pvp though not pve.

The only balance suggestions I can give is for the Magicka health warden in pvp as that is what I am most familiar with atm.
@ZOS_Wrobel @Joy_Division & fellow class reps, the following changes would make it more viable:

Arctic Wind:

- Heal for 15% of your max health instantly and an additional 10% 25% of your max health over 10 seconds.
- Increase the damage of this skill by about 15%

* The heal over time component of this skill, which ticks every 2 seconds is very weak which encourages the user to spam the skill every second. The hot should tick for roughly 30% of the burst heal every 2 seconds. Even on a min maxed setup, the damage from this skill tickles. Sure, it doesn't need to kill people but it should at least apply some pressure and take them down to like 75% health.

Gripping Shards:
- Increase the damage of this morph by about 15%.

* Depending on gear / build setup, this morph barely does more damage than the spell power morph. Need to have 50k+ health before this morph becomes worth using over the winter revenge morph.

These changes would make health wardens a lot more popular without making them too OP.
________________________________________________________________________________

In response to the suggestion of making health based skills magicka based, I don't think it is necessary but it could work either way, I don't really mind. If arctic wind became magicka based, warden would end up with a similar playstyle as bomb blade only with winterborn + VD which would be pretty crazy actually lol.

My opinion on class overall:

Stamina Warden - Strong in pvp and all stamina classes in general do decent pve dps from what i can tell due to the skills they all have available to them.

Magicka Warden DPS - Very difficult class to play in both pvp and pve. Pve rotation is tricky depending on what skills you use and can be difficult to get adequate dps consistently. Can feel like a less effective mag sorc or mag nb in pvp.

Magicka Health warden - Ability functionality feels very satisfying to use in pvp but damage is too low to make yourself any kind of threat. Heal over time on arctic wind is weak. I don't know about pve, never used it there.