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For how long we are still having cloak to be used indiscriminately?
Cenom
✭✭✭
I really think it should have the same treatment as streak, to increase it's cost with every use.
To balance out make it grant major expedition or something like this so Nightblades can still run away or go for a gank, but don't let people play perm stealth using a skill, they should use sneak instead if they want, since cloak is not counter able by just playing the game instead of setting up specially against it. By using detection potions or some skills.
Not to mention it's easy sustain, with Syphoning Strikes. Which I still can't understand why is not touched yet.
I don't mind giving Nightblades more tools of suvivability, but the way it's designed atm is toxic.
To balance out make it grant major expedition or something like this so Nightblades can still run away or go for a gank, but don't let people play perm stealth using a skill, they should use sneak instead if they want, since cloak is not counter able by just playing the game instead of setting up specially against it. By using detection potions or some skills.
Not to mention it's easy sustain, with Syphoning Strikes. Which I still can't understand why is not touched yet.
I don't mind giving Nightblades more tools of suvivability, but the way it's designed atm is toxic.
18
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Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Use the following:
1. Detection potion
2. Magelight
3. Evil Hunter
4. Revealing Flare
There are several easy solutions. Your failure to utilize any of them is your problem. Cloak has a short duration and is meant to be chain-cast to escape fights or ambush prey. Using any of the above options renders an enemy’s cloak useless. L2P“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”40 -
SergeantPink✭✭✭Evil hunter costs too much stamina, the morphs are pretty useless as well so it’s not worth using a slot for it.
When is the last time you’ve seen evil hunter used? It needs a little help.
Detect pot is your only option for stamina players, in which it’s hard to sacrifice the immovable pot.
Revealing flare needs to hit the ground faster. Once again it’s not worth wasting a slot over if the night blade can just walk out of the targeted area.
I really think those types of abilities should be worthwhile and effective if you sacrifice an ability slot for them.Edited by SergeantPink on July 9, 2018 10:51PM13 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vercingetorix wrote: »There are several easy solutions. Your failure to utilize any of them is your problem.
Incorrect. There are several limited, flawed solutions to an utterly broken mechanic that shouldn't even exist. Cloak in ESO is massively, stupidly OP. A cost increase for subsequent casts would be a fair solution.23 -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭No!
And I think Streak should be changed to not have that cost increase, that was a stupid nerf.11 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
5 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Use the following:
1. Detection potion
2. Magelight
3. Evil Hunter
4. Revealing Flare
There are several easy solutions. Your failure to utilize any of them is your problem. Cloak has a short duration and is meant to be chain-cast to escape fights or ambush prey. Using any of the above options renders an enemy’s cloak useless. L2P
No there isnt lol .... I can stay in cloak for 20 plus seconds ... Its call magicka about 17 to 19k magicka will allow you to do sooo...
I run speed in stealth everything you mention Im out of in a matter of secounds....
PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One thing they should do is lock cloak from use for 2-3s if you get popped out of it prematurely by AoE, similar to how interrupts work.
"Stacking cost increase" and any similar action would just make it practically unusable by stamina NBs that build around stealth and force more people into dodge roll spam playstyles.
It is already very difficult to sustain cloaking on a dmg heavy stamblade, especially in BGs & noCP.Edited by DDuke on July 9, 2018 11:40PM2 -
Lord_Ninka✭✭✭cloakers are hard to deal with, okay, but slotting a counter to reveal them and prevent them from cloaking is not worth it? Hmmm...
I must say I have no problem at least scaring cloakers away with my flares or magelight. I particularly like lingering flare, even on a stamina character I can protect my entire group from sneak attacks.2 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
so you need defense this is a class that specializes in upfront burst ? BTW cloak is best mitigation among the stam classes ... With speed this ability is over performing...
What defense does a stam dk have ??? Shield 2k shield lol .. btw its 4k magicka lol
What about a Stam Templar purge AE snare??? huge amounts of magicka
What about a Stam Sorc Streak? that has a penalty btw..
Stam Warden yes they have burst heals and damage shield from ranged attacks ...
I'm sorry but NB are currently over performing against other stam classes except Stam Wardens .... I would rather they not be nerfed honestly Im tired of nerfs .... I would like some of the other classes to get something more maybe stam morphs might be the answer....Edited by Durham on July 9, 2018 11:47PMPVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables3 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭the answer is not to change cloak but to fix evil hunter, as people have stated.
reduce the cost or give it %stam increase like inner light.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
so you need defense this is a class that specializes in upfront burst ? BTW cloak is best mitigation among the stam classes ... With speed this ability is over performing...
What defense does a stam dk have ??? Shield 2k shield lol
Reflect vs projectiles, passive +12% healing, more spell resistance & 10% stronger block as well as a burst heal every time they use an ultimate.What about a Stam Templar AE snare???
AoE snare that cleanses things like Sload, Curse, Fury, POTL, Embers, Major Defile etc etc, stronger block vs melee attacks, more native spell resistance & Minor Mend (+8% healing).Stam Warden yes they have burst heals and damage shield from ranged attacks ...
Well, you got one out of five right.I'm sorry but NB are currently over performing against other stam classes ....
Overperforming? No.
But they were (and probably still are) far too easy to play. This patch addressed a big part of the reason why (Incap stun).Edited by DDuke on July 9, 2018 11:49PM4 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'd much rather buff sets like Way of Air & Sentry to be reliable cloak counters than to nerf the skill any further.0331
06022 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
Nope. You got 18k health nightblades that spam snipe from the safety of stealth that cry for sorc nerfs continuously on the forums. Time to share the love.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.4 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
0331
06026 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
The problem with incap isn't the stun... it's the defile and the empower. It should lose the defile as it won't change the skill for those in pve.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really think it should have the same treatment as streak, to increase it's cost with every use.
To balance out make it grant major expedition or something like this so Nightblades can still run away or go for a gank, but don't let people play perm stealth using a skill, they should use sneak instead if they want, since cloak is not counter able by just playing the game instead of setting up specially against it. By using detection potions or some skills.
Not to mention it's easy sustain, with Syphoning Strikes. Which I still can't understand why is not touched yet.
I don't mind giving Nightblades more tools of suvivability, but the way it's designed atm is toxic.
You mention Streak so I feel you play a MagSorc. You have plenty of tools to kill a NB, many of which don't require any sacrificial slotting.
I'll tell you the same thing I told the MagSorc who sent me hate tells earlier for killing him with my 'OblivionBlade': Thanks for the laughs.1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
The problem with incap isn't the stun... it's the defile and the empower. It should lose the defile as it won't change the skill for those in pve.
I will have to disagree.
The guaranteed stun has always proven to be more problematic to deal with than the defile or empower boost.
0331
06021 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really think it should have the same treatment as streak, to increase it's cost with every use.
I don't mind giving Nightblades more tools of suvivability, but the way it's designed atm is toxic.
Cooldowns are what's toxic. If you like cooldowns, go play guild wars. The streak nerf was a bad implementation and so would a stacking cloak cost. We need counters not restrictions.5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
Nope. You got 18k health nightblades that spam snipe from the safety of stealth that cry for sorc nerfs continuously on the forums. Time to share the love.
...and then you have 18k (and even less) health sorcs spamming Rune Cages & executes from the safety of damage shields making snarky comments & pretending to hold some kind of a moral high ground. Oh well...usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
Cloak counters are too weak or they're too strong - let's not forget the other end of the equation here.
Last I checked Piercing Mark still practically disabled the main defense of NBs for 30 seconds & Detection Potion for 15,7 seconds (with the caveat of 20m range).
Given the amount of kills I'm getting on other NBs, I'd say Bombard/Acid Spray could also make it to the list.
The main issues are with classes that don't have strong spammables, for whom it's practically "det pot or go home" when fighting NBs that can spam cloak (not just use it 2-3 times in a row like most stamblades in noCP), take mDK for instance that has pretty much just Volatile Armor to fight cloak spam (barring possible set choices such as Overwhelming), a skill that isn't designed to be spammable.
Or Warden, which basically has to pray those shalks connect...
That's why it'd be ideal if revealing a NB from cloak disabled it for 2-3 seconds. And of course garbage skills like Evil Hunter/Radiant Magelight should be more worth slotting.Edited by DDuke on July 10, 2018 12:47AM1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
The problem with incap isn't the stun... it's the defile and the empower. It should lose the defile as it won't change the skill for those in pve.
I will have to disagree.
The guaranteed stun has always proven to be more problematic to deal with than the defile or empower boost.
Yes considering the majority of time in BGs I'm already afflicted with either Minor or Major Defile anyways.1 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭Cloak needs better counters. Detect pots is the only good one.
I use radiant magelight a lot in pvp, but it's mostly useful as a defense. The duration is short, it costs about as much to spam as cloak, and it requires me to stay in melee range with someone who is usually faster than me and has the best melee damage in the game.
It's mostly the combination of dodge and cloak that makes good NB's practically invincible. Add some cooldown that you can't cloak 2 seconds after dodgerolling and vice versa.5 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
Nope. You got 18k health nightblades that spam snipe from the safety of stealth that cry for sorc nerfs continuously on the forums. Time to share the love.
...and then you have 18k (and even less) health sorcs spamming Rune Cages & executes from the safety of damage shields making snarky comments & pretending to hold some kind of a moral high ground. Oh well...usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
Cloak counters are too weak or they're too strong - let's not forget the other end of the equation here.
Last I checked Piercing Mark still practically disabled the main defense of NBs for 30 seconds & Detection Potion for 15,7 seconds (with the caveat of 20m range).
Given the amount of kills I'm getting on other NBs, I'd say Bombard/Acid Spray could also make it to the list.
The main issues are with classes that don't have strong spammables, for whom it's practically "det pot or go home" when fighting NBs that can spam cloak (not just use it 2-3 times in a row like most stamblades in noCP), take mDK for instance that has pretty much just Volatile Armor to fight cloak spam (barring possible set choices such as Overwhelming), a skill that isn't designed to be spammable.
Or Warden, which basically has to pray those shalks connect...
That's why it'd be ideal if revealing a NB from cloak disabled it for 2-3 seconds. And of course garbage skills like Evil Hunter/Radiant Magelight should be more worth slotting.
I don't think that's the best way to go about it but I see no harm in implementing your solution.0331
06021 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cage_Lizardman wrote: »Cloak needs better counters. Detect pots is the only good one.
I use radiant magelight a lot in pvp, but it's mostly useful as a defense. The duration is short, it costs about as much to spam as cloak, and it requires me to stay in melee range with someone who is usually faster than me and has the best melee damage in the game.
It's mostly the combination of dodge and cloak that makes good NB's practically invincible. Add some cooldown that you can't cloak 2 seconds after dodgerolling and vice versa.
Cloak was powerful before they added the 2s immunity with dodge roll.
But I'd be okay with that, just apply the same rule set to Mist Form and Streak.2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
Nope. You got 18k health nightblades that spam snipe from the safety of stealth that cry for sorc nerfs continuously on the forums. Time to share the love.
...and then you have 18k (and even less) health sorcs spamming Rune Cages & executes from the safety of damage shields making snarky comments & pretending to hold some kind of a moral high ground. Oh well...usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
Cloak counters are too weak or they're too strong - let's not forget the other end of the equation here.
Last I checked Piercing Mark still practically disabled the main defense of NBs for 30 seconds & Detection Potion for 15,7 seconds (with the caveat of 20m range).
Given the amount of kills I'm getting on other NBs, I'd say Bombard/Acid Spray could also make it to the list.
The main issues are with classes that don't have strong spammables, for whom it's practically "det pot or go home" when fighting NBs that can spam cloak (not just use it 2-3 times in a row like most stamblades in noCP), take mDK for instance that has pretty much just Volatile Armor to fight cloak spam (barring possible set choices such as Overwhelming), a skill that isn't designed to be spammable.
Or Warden, which basically has to pray those shalks connect...
That's why it'd be ideal if revealing a NB from cloak disabled it for 2-3 seconds. And of course garbage skills like Evil Hunter/Radiant Magelight should be more worth slotting.
Looks like I struck a nerve but unlike you we cannot disappear from a fight when things don't go our way. Granted we've had this argument before but you still feel the need to comment.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »cloak is our only defense, and our only way to play stealth.
there's nothing wrong with cloak, please leave us nightblades alone.
Nope. You got 18k health nightblades that spam snipe from the safety of stealth that cry for sorc nerfs continuously on the forums. Time to share the love.
...and then you have 18k (and even less) health sorcs spamming Rune Cages & executes from the safety of damage shields making snarky comments & pretending to hold some kind of a moral high ground. Oh well...usmcjdking wrote: »NBs overperform because of 2 things.
1) Cloak counters outside of magelight are detrimental to the player using them (Evil Hunter *** 5k base cost, use potion just to see a player who will have a potion available).
2) Incap.
Incap has been addressed. Cloak counters are far too weak to justify using ATM outside of radiant magelight.
Cloak counters are too weak or they're too strong - let's not forget the other end of the equation here.
Last I checked Piercing Mark still practically disabled the main defense of NBs for 30 seconds & Detection Potion for 15,7 seconds (with the caveat of 20m range).
Given the amount of kills I'm getting on other NBs, I'd say Bombard/Acid Spray could also make it to the list.
The main issues are with classes that don't have strong spammables, for whom it's practically "det pot or go home" when fighting NBs that can spam cloak (not just use it 2-3 times in a row like most stamblades in noCP), take mDK for instance that has pretty much just Volatile Armor to fight cloak spam (barring possible set choices such as Overwhelming), a skill that isn't designed to be spammable.
Or Warden, which basically has to pray those shalks connect...
That's why it'd be ideal if revealing a NB from cloak disabled it for 2-3 seconds. And of course garbage skills like Evil Hunter/Radiant Magelight should be more worth slotting.
Looks like I struck a nerve but unlike you we cannot disappear from a fight when things don't go our way. Granted we've had this argument before but you still feel the need to comment.
I can do that just fine with Streak & invisibility pot on my sorcerer. Maybe it's a L2P issue.Edited by DDuke on July 10, 2018 1:21AM5 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »That's why it'd be ideal if revealing a NB from cloak disabled it for 2-3 seconds. And of course garbage skills like Evil Hunter/Radiant Magelight should be more worth slotting.
"A visual effect will now appear over your character’s head when using Detection Potions, Magelight, or Expert Hunter to notify other players of your ability to see sneaking/invisible enemies"
Instead they made them less worth slotting.
And they made sload not break cloak anymore.Edited by Cage_Lizardman on July 10, 2018 1:22AM3
