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DW Rapid Strikes Damage Calculation Broken In PVP??
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Vynist✭✭✭If you are expecting Rapid Strikes to hit like Wrecking Blow, then you are not playing it right. DW is a totally different play style then other harder hitting abilities. Try fighting a stam sorc that's running a bunch of DoT's AND he throws a few Rapid Strikes on you, that's tough to fight.
DW is designed to be a DoT build, not instant damage like 2H... even the ultimate of DW is a DoT.
Don't try to change the skills, adopt your playstyle to fit the skills.1 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭@vynist Yea, I'm very much aware the melee style DW/Medium/Warden is essentially non-viable in PVP. But I do it precisely because it is so damn difficult. I've briefly played a couple of the metas and its boring.
Not expecting ZOS to "change" Rapid Strikes to hit like a wrecking ball. Never stated it. I already know from looking at the numbers that after they fix it it will only be a sub-par skill to slot (hell, I do it now). But the current bugs make it's just ridiculous broken right now.
Do I believe from a Game Design perspective that they have the sole single target skill in the melee combat skill tree (DW) reflect things correctly? Nope, not at all. The whole idea of having the close combat melee skill have a meh damage tooltip, no effects (really the entire skill tree) AND skill self-interrupt if you move, block or dodge roll, i.e. it is designed with the assumption that you have to literally stand there ... is well ... no words really.
True, I did make a couple of suggestions, but I've got no expectations on that front.
BUT on the other front I do have expectations. I'm asking them to FIX IT as it is currently designed. It is currently verified broken as follows: 1) CP is not being applied and I'd like that to happen 2) The left hand enchant is not working.
That's it. Fix the current bugs in the skill.Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on July 9, 2018 6:21PM1 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭@waffennacht Lots of Master, Maestrom Weapons. Hell, I got it with 18K Wrecking Ball or Reverse Slice (it was a 2-H). Still got the screen shot for that one. I'd be surprised if this, and only this, particular skill is as crippled precisely for Maelstrom. And none to happy about it either.0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »@waffennacht Lots of Master, Maestrom Weapons. Hell, I got it with 18K Wrecking Ball or Reverse Slice (it was a 2-H). Still got the screen shot for that one. I'd be surprised if this, and only this, particular skill is as crippled precisely for Maelstrom. And none to happy about it either.
I was thinking more like a remnant of past tweaking, Nerfs, etc. Like when Maelstrom was introduced they thought it was too much, but then never reverted it.
The skill, imo, has always been mediocre at best. And just always thought there had to be a reason for it lol0 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭All cast time skills are way worse than instant. I have tried to play pvp with rapid strikes couple of time few day in row. Just awful experience. Templar in the cherry of this poo channel time selfstuns and missing half of the time. 4 or more cast time templar skills are basically crap. I think there should be reward when you selfstun yourself in pvp.
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BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭While there seems to be a lot of lore around why everyone has concluded that Rapid Strikes is such a poor PVP skill, the fact that the damage calculation for the skill is broken with respect to enchants and CP is a large part of it.
I've reported it as a bug in the Bugs Forum, via /bugs and finally via the online Feedback-Bugs form. Unfortunately, no acknowledgement from ZOS to date.
The bug should be one of the easier to both verify and then fix. 2.5K of stam for Bone Pirate not accounted for correctly in damage, the entire forum is up in arms and itsfixed in 2 days. If Crystal Shards, Haunting Curse were badly broken, it would be pitch forks and torches. No one really cares as Rapids has probably been broken since the Dawn of the CP Age.
The fact that a test toon/build optimized for Rapids can only put out 2-4K of damage with one of the hardest skills out there to pull off, well, it is no wonder everyone has given up on it.
But this is not some niche skill, it is the only offered single target spammable damage skill in the DW line. If it was working and then suddenly stopped last release there would be more of an outrage. Since it has been broken since near forever there is just resignation. If fixed the skill might be slottable respectable.
Please post asking for ZOS to fix this bug. It is very straightforward to verify and and fix if we can only get it to the top of their queue.3 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You don't loose 5% damage. you loose alot more.
A proper build probably has 20% thaumaturge+5%sorc+10% mighty. That means the final strike does 435% of tooltip damage. If it calculated properly, it should be doing 400%*1,35=540% of total tooltip damage.
And if we look at the total channel damage it does 975% of tooltip damage, but should be doing 1080% of tooltip damage.
A loss of 10,8% of your damage. And even more if you use rapid strikes morph, or if attacking a stunned target or a target in execute range.
Potentially a 20% plus damage loss if all the above factors are added. (did not thoroughly test that, it's an assumption based on how the cp and racial modifiers are calculated).
Quite alot....
Can you, @glavius please explain why you think that the last hit is 400%? It clearly states 300%. And why do you think that the last hit is not getting buffed by cp? The base damage is already getting buffed by champion points. Altogether, the skill does 700% of the Tooltip, not 975%. This is what I get when I test the skill.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 21, 2018 5:19AM0 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »You don't loose 5% damage. you loose alot more.
A proper build probably has 20% thaumaturge+5%sorc+10% mighty. That means the final strike does 435% of tooltip damage. If it calculated properly, it should be doing 400%*1,35=540% of total tooltip damage.
And if we look at the total channel damage it does 975% of tooltip damage, but should be doing 1080% of tooltip damage.
A loss of 10,8% of your damage. And even more if you use rapid strikes morph, or if attacking a stunned target or a target in execute range.
Potentially a 20% plus damage loss if all the above factors are added. (did not thoroughly test that, it's an assumption based on how the cp and racial modifiers are calculated).
Quite alot....
Can you, @glavius please explain why you think that the last hit is 400%? It clearly states 300%. And why do you think that the last hit is not getting buffed by cp? The base damage is already getting buffed by champion points. Altogether, the skill does 700% of the Tooltip, not 975%. This is what I get when I test the skill.
"final hit deals 300% more damage". 300% more damage=400% total damage.1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »You don't loose 5% damage. you loose alot more.
A proper build probably has 20% thaumaturge+5%sorc+10% mighty. That means the final strike does 435% of tooltip damage. If it calculated properly, it should be doing 400%*1,35=540% of total tooltip damage.
And if we look at the total channel damage it does 975% of tooltip damage, but should be doing 1080% of tooltip damage.
A loss of 10,8% of your damage. And even more if you use rapid strikes morph, or if attacking a stunned target or a target in execute range.
Potentially a 20% plus damage loss if all the above factors are added. (did not thoroughly test that, it's an assumption based on how the cp and racial modifiers are calculated).
Quite alot....
Can you, @glavius please explain why you think that the last hit is 400%? It clearly states 300%. And why do you think that the last hit is not getting buffed by cp? The base damage is already getting buffed by champion points. Altogether, the skill does 700% of the Tooltip, not 975%. This is what I get when I test the skill.
"final hit deals 300% more damage". 300% more damage=400% total damage.
Um no?
https://www.google.com/search?q=100*300%&oq=100*300%&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
It does not say "which is added to the base."
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »You don't loose 5% damage. you loose alot more.
A proper build probably has 20% thaumaturge+5%sorc+10% mighty. That means the final strike does 435% of tooltip damage. If it calculated properly, it should be doing 400%*1,35=540% of total tooltip damage.
And if we look at the total channel damage it does 975% of tooltip damage, but should be doing 1080% of tooltip damage.
A loss of 10,8% of your damage. And even more if you use rapid strikes morph, or if attacking a stunned target or a target in execute range.
Potentially a 20% plus damage loss if all the above factors are added. (did not thoroughly test that, it's an assumption based on how the cp and racial modifiers are calculated).
Quite alot....
Can you, @glavius please explain why you think that the last hit is 400%? It clearly states 300%. And why do you think that the last hit is not getting buffed by cp? The base damage is already getting buffed by champion points. Altogether, the skill does 700% of the Tooltip, not 975%. This is what I get when I test the skill.
"final hit deals 300% more damage". 300% more damage=400% total damage.
Um no?
https://www.google.com/search?q=100*300%&oq=100*300%&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
It does not say "which is added to the base."
Um no it doesn't need that "added to base" statement. If so then Stone Giant should only ever deal the same amount regardless of the stun or not. It uses the same phrasing for "100% more" and means it is giving you double the damage when it stuns. The use of the word "more" after a percentage implies you are adding it to the base.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..4 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks for testing and publishing your results @glavius.
To be fair though, that is expected behaviour. All non-execute abilities that add a certain % of additional damage do so additively. For instance, the extra 100% conditional of Stonefist doesn't double the final damage dealt—it gets added on top of your other % modifiers. Frags' extra 20% on proc is another example.
Execute abilities are the only case in which the extra damage functions multiplicatively.
Ultimately, the order of calculation isn't the problem with Flurry—it's just a weak skill by design. Requires a channel but doesn't have have the sheer scaling coefficients and payoff of Dizzying, nor the additional effects and ease-of-use of Flying Dagger.
Edit: Oh wow this is an old threadEdited by TheYKcid on October 21, 2018 12:37PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden1 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for testing and publishing your results @glavius.
To be fair though, that is expected behaviour. All non-execute abilities that add a certain % of additional damage do so additively. For instance, the extra 100% conditional of Stonefist doesn't double the final damage dealt—it gets added on top of your other % modifiers. Frags' extra 20% on proc is another example.
Execute abilities are the only case in which the extra damage functions multiplicatively.
Ultimately, the order of calculation isn't the problem with Flurry—it's just a weak skill by design. Requires a channel but doesn't have have the sheer scaling coefficients and payoff of Dizzying, nor the additional effects and ease-of-use of Flying Dagger.
Edit: Oh wow this is an old thread
Well the fact that rapid strikes morph adds less than 2% overall damage while the description says 3/6/9/12/15% is misleading to say the least.0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is quite close what other spammables hit for.
Suprise Attack gets 2k-3k on that average tanky guy.
Crushing Attack get 2k-2.5k.
Same with Shrouded Daggers.
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thanks for testing and publishing your results @glavius.
To be fair though, that is expected behaviour. All non-execute abilities that add a certain % of additional damage do so additively. For instance, the extra 100% conditional of Stonefist doesn't double the final damage dealt—it gets added on top of your other % modifiers. Frags' extra 20% on proc is another example.
Execute abilities are the only case in which the extra damage functions multiplicatively.
Ultimately, the order of calculation isn't the problem with Flurry—it's just a weak skill by design. Requires a channel but doesn't have have the sheer scaling coefficients and payoff of Dizzying, nor the additional effects and ease-of-use of Flying Dagger.
Edit: Oh wow this is an old thread
Well the fact that rapid strikes morph adds less than 2% overall damage while the description says 3/6/9/12/15% is misleading to say the least.
where does it say that?Flood an enemy with steel, battering them with five consecutive attacks that each deal 545 Physical Damage. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 3%.
The final hit deals 300% more damage.
so it would look like this-
100%-103%-103%-103%-303%, you get around 2.4% more damage on average.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 21, 2018 4:05PM0 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Thanks for testing and publishing your results @glavius.
To be fair though, that is expected behaviour. All non-execute abilities that add a certain % of additional damage do so additively. For instance, the extra 100% conditional of Stonefist doesn't double the final damage dealt—it gets added on top of your other % modifiers. Frags' extra 20% on proc is another example.
Execute abilities are the only case in which the extra damage functions multiplicatively.
Ultimately, the order of calculation isn't the problem with Flurry—it's just a weak skill by design. Requires a channel but doesn't have have the sheer scaling coefficients and payoff of Dizzying, nor the additional effects and ease-of-use of Flying Dagger.
Edit: Oh wow this is an old thread
Well the fact that rapid strikes morph adds less than 2% overall damage while the description says 3/6/9/12/15% is misleading to say the least.
where does it say that?Flood an enemy with steel, battering them with five consecutive attacks that each deal 545 Physical Damage. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 3%.
The final hit deals 300% more damage.
so it would look like this-
100%-103%-103%-103%-303%, you get around 2.4% more damage on average.
100%-103%-106%-109%-412% I think. Actually 3,75% increased damage overall, I miscalculated before.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Thanks for testing and publishing your results @glavius.
To be fair though, that is expected behaviour. All non-execute abilities that add a certain % of additional damage do so additively. For instance, the extra 100% conditional of Stonefist doesn't double the final damage dealt—it gets added on top of your other % modifiers. Frags' extra 20% on proc is another example.
Execute abilities are the only case in which the extra damage functions multiplicatively.
Ultimately, the order of calculation isn't the problem with Flurry—it's just a weak skill by design. Requires a channel but doesn't have have the sheer scaling coefficients and payoff of Dizzying, nor the additional effects and ease-of-use of Flying Dagger.
Edit: Oh wow this is an old thread
Well the fact that rapid strikes morph adds less than 2% overall damage while the description says 3/6/9/12/15% is misleading to say the least.
where does it say that?Flood an enemy with steel, battering them with five consecutive attacks that each deal 545 Physical Damage. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 3%.
The final hit deals 300% more damage.
so it would look like this-
100%-103%-103%-103%-303%, you get around 2.4% more damage on average.
100%-103%-106%-109%-412% I think. Actually 3,75% increased damage overall, I miscalculated before.
I have not tested rapid strikes but I would think that what I said would be the way it works, as the final hit of bloodthirsty, the 300%, which is calculated like (x*300%)+x, not x*400%, is weaker then I would think it would be, with percentage amps. See here-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-ampsEdited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 22, 2018 4:39AM0