Sixty5 wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.

Oh boy, it is so easy to get Major and, minor mending on stam sorc.

It's so simple!

yes stam sorcs are so bad right now.. but not really.


CP is the problem. stamina uses stacking points in blessed and quick recovery wearing skoria.. some silly stuff out there.

PvP players have to sacrifice other areas of their build to run defile (most often it is damage).

Regardless, it appears the OP wants to continue toiling on with the thread anyway.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Healing debuff is completely usless in pve and nobody uses it so going into you you should know some things. Things like reverb bash and fassala durok bane etc is all pvp stuff.

Also dont forget that in pvp environments or duels healing is cut in half. So why on EARTH would there be a healing debuff thats stronger than any healing you can do to begin with?

On top of that befoul allows up to 75% heal debuff if set up right...

So a 75% heal debuff on a player WHO ALREADY HAS 50% HEALING REDUCED FROM BEING IN PVP .

Meanwhile i have to dumb over 50 pts in blessed just to get 10% extra healing...

Ya nice logic guys. Nowonder everybody and their mother is using reverb bash. Ffs i even seen a double snb magplar using reverb... not that he was great at all but that should tell you something about how unbalanced something is.

On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.

Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.

Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem

l2p find a way around it

The_Outsider wrote: »

On live, befoul+defile stacking is crazy broken. However, if you’re not running a defile it’s virtually impossible to kill a high crit build with good healing. This is one of the main reasons stamblades over perform, they’ve got ~90% increased crit damage which translates to a 90% healing increase when you can force vigor+Rally crits. They can indefinitely reset fights as long as they’ve got enough sustain.

Is defile OP or broken if it's impossible to kill builds with good healing without using defile?

It can be both. That is called "being binary" as in 1 or 0 in binary coding, win or lose.
But, the binary nature of this is mostly because it is overpowered against everything unless the player has a build that itself is overpowered.

Though, you then have to get into where we draw the line between overpowered and underpowered on builds because there are a lot of things that need buffs and there is a point to be made for things people consider overpowered actually being just right and requiring specific effort or circumstances that may justify the strength to where other things should be buffed up to that level because of equal effort and requirements.

I think defile is overpowered against far too many builds to ever be considered "balanced". It forces people to build the "supposedly unkillable" builds just to survive so that those can't truly be nerfed or defile would be clearly egregiously overpowered then.

Shadowmaster wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

The befoul cp buff happened because people were complaining about "unkillable tanky players who sustain and self heal indefinitely"

are we going to suggest that wasn't a legitimate complaint?

Infinite sustain is the AIDS of PvP games.

Actually, it is not.
There are plenty of FPS games that prove it is not because everyone there pretty much has infinite resources(ammo) because of drops laying around for more and refreshed totals on respawn and different damage totals for different body parts hit so needing less resources with skilled play.
The difference between this game and FPS pvp is that the FPS weapons are all equally available to all players and have relatively simple shared mechanics between abilities so that any weapon differences are mostly just visual. For example, just replace a single shot handgun with a single shot lightning bolt/ball and a machine gun with a channeled lightning bolt stream and they could have equal damage and effects, which was actually done on the old mmo City of Heroes where gun-toting thugs fought next to and against magic sorcerers and aliens and demons and giant robots and everything.

Infinite sustain helps pvp because then nobody is left completely screwed without any means of defending themselves. It just takes balancing all abilities at their very core to be the way they really need to be, just visual differences for the same exact effects.

Unique effects that only certain classes have from certain abilities is the main problem of balance. You can't give one class AoE Major Defile/Vitality and give another class single target only Major Defile/Vitality, especially with similar costs and cast times so the single target can't be spammed to have the same effect as the AoE version, and ever call that balanced. You can't give a class a spammable invisibility skill that no other class gets and call that balanced either because it just is too unique and powerful a mechanic. Stuff like that means that those mechanics have to be easy to counter to the point of uselessness where they should just be removed or they will be overpowered if they remain useful in any situations where the balance equation needs to be applied such as player versus player(x = x).

JumpmanLane wrote: »

A good magdk can heal through that. It doesn’t matter how much Health you have if HoTs are up and your powerlash procs.

Is being defiled fun? Heck no. Yet, it’s survivable. Probably a good time to LoS around a tree! Lol.

"A (specific build) can heal through that."

That doesn't make defile balanced or "not overpowered"; it just makes every other build underpowered or the specific build mentioned overpowered.

Defile is overpowered against any casual pvper or noob pvper. That turns people off to pvp when they are just experimenting with it and may have otherwise learned and enjoyed it. Welcome to the death of pvp, one experienced ganker versus noob at a time.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

A good magdk can heal through that. It doesn’t matter how much Health you have if HoTs are up and your powerlash procs.

Is being defiled fun? Heck no. Yet, it’s survivable. Probably a good time to LoS around a tree! Lol.

"A (specific build) can heal through that."

That doesn't make defile balanced or "not overpowered"; it just makes every other build underpowered or the specific build mentioned overpowered.

Defile is overpowered against any casual pvper or noob pvper. That turns people off to pvp when they are just experimenting with it and may have otherwise learned and enjoyed it. Welcome to the death of pvp, one experienced ganker versus noob at a time.

EVERYTHING is OP to a new or casual player. That doesn’t require a nerf.

“It killed me”is no excuse for a nerf, Just as, according to your logic, “It doesn’t kill me.” is no excuse NOT to nerf something.

Either way, casual and new players shouldn’t be the base from which balance is determined. Both types of players should play more and not really expect to be good vs more experienced players. Nine times out of ten a better player just beat them and they happened to have used defile.

I know great players who snicker “this fool defiled me lol.” Then proceed to kill the defiler.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

A good magdk can heal through that. It doesn’t matter how much Health you have if HoTs are up and your powerlash procs.

Is being defiled fun? Heck no. Yet, it’s survivable. Probably a good time to LoS around a tree! Lol.

"A (specific build) can heal through that."

That doesn't make defile balanced or "not overpowered"; it just makes every other build underpowered or the specific build mentioned overpowered.

Defile is overpowered against any casual pvper or noob pvper. That turns people off to pvp when they are just experimenting with it and may have otherwise learned and enjoyed it. Welcome to the death of pvp, one experienced ganker versus noob at a time.

EVERYTHING is OP to a new or casual player. That doesn’t require a nerf.

It does require a rebalance.

Is this the only game with pvp you have ever played?
I have played many. The implementation in many other games is much better as pvp is all a mostly level playing field to leave any win or loss in the hands of player skill and experience and luck, which already play a large role in any fight. They do this by making gear nearly meaningless by giving everyone max stats while in pvp areas or when fighting players, often by having completely separate stats determine pvp effectiveness of skills and having skills do different things in pvp. This game only has a little bit of that like how certain skills snare instead of stun when used against players as listed on their tooltip; they just haven't gone the whole way that they will eventually realize is necessary, likely too late.

Any gear/stat difference in pvp is just a guaranteed loss for the player that hasn't been there forever and farmed everything, which makes new players not want to join or just leave when they try and fail.
That kills pvp as the old experienced players lose competition, or "ants to farm", and get bored and leave, along with other reasons.