Could someone get banned for taking all the items out of a guild bank they were given permission to?

Vaughndaunted · July 2018

A friend of mine took the items out of a guild bank. I’m not upset with him because it’s his choice. He made a decision with his own free will. He asked me permission to my guild bank. I said no. If he needs something... ask. Unfortunately for the other guild, they’re asking me if I gave him the go ahead to take the items. I said no. Is this something I should be harassed for? Is this even a bannable situation for the person who had access? Please let me know.

ArchMikem · July 2018

If you had anything to do with your friend cleaning out their guild bank they have the right to kick you from the guild. However, sadly, no emptying out a guild bank is not a bannable offense if they gave him permission. Its a risk every GM takes.

DuskMarine · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

A friend of mine took the items out of a guild bank. I’m not upset with him because it’s his choice. He made a decision with his own free will. He asked me permission to my guild bank. I said no. If he needs something... ask. Unfortunately for the other guild, they’re asking me if I gave him the go ahead to take the items. I said no. Is this something I should be harassed for? Is this even a bannable situation for the person who had access? Please let me know.

nope its just tough luck they have a setting for that called trust nobody and keep guild bank only locked to officers or higher

VaranisArano · July 2018

Your friend can be reported to ZOS for taking items, but I don't know if its a bannable offense because ZOS generally doesn't discuss disciplinary actions like that. For the guild side of things, most guilds just hear back from ZOS something like "Hey, sorry that happened, but there's nothing we can do to help. Be more careful about who you trust next time?" Because technically, anyone who took items was given that permission from the guild, ZOS tends to take a really hands-off approach when guilds are cleaned out by unscrupulous members.

As for you, sorry you feel like you are being harassed. The most you can do is tell your guild that you told the guy "No" and its not your fault he decided to be a jerk. If they continue harassing you, document it and report it to ZOS.

In my personal opinion, you might also want to reevaluate how much trust you put in this friend of yours. I'd certainly be a little miffed if my friend chose to break guild rules and leave me in the lurch to take the heat for their misdeed.

Scorpiodisc · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

A friend of mine took the items out of a guild bank. I’m not upset with him because it’s his choice. He made a decision with his own free will. He asked me permission to my guild bank. I said no. If he needs something... ask. Unfortunately for the other guild, they’re asking me if I gave him the go ahead to take the items. I said no. Is this something I should be harassed for? Is this even a bannable situation for the person who had access? Please let me know.

If you did not give him access then how did he get it?

Vaughndaunted · July 2018

Thanks everyone. Just wanted to get an idea. It’s a little nuts that I’m getting involved.

yurimodin · July 2018

we had a guy clean out our guild bank of items and gold......we sadly have to lock it down to only certain members who have been promoted.

The guild bank system needs a serious overhaul because its either all or nothing for a member's permissions.....it would be nice to have tiers/withdraw limits or cool downs.

redspecter23 · July 2018

I'm not sure I could remain friends with someone who would knowingly clean out an entire bank. I don't know all the details of course. There may be more to this story, but if it is as you've said here, I'd cut all ties out of principle.

DanteYoda · July 2018

Your friends sounds like a ***.. and yes you should have him banned.

Vaughndaunted · July 2018

Idk why he did it. But he’s my friend. I have a guild for the blacklisted. It’s for people who do things that get them kicked from guilds. My Guild is called Blacklisted Bandits. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is it’s equivalent. I have a huge bounty of 1.4 million. Should I be banned for killing NPC’s? It’s in the game. I have no issue.

newtinmpls · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

Idk why he did it. But he’s my friend. I have a guild for the blacklisted. It’s for people who do things that get them kicked from guilds. My Guild is called Blacklisted Bandits. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is it’s equivalent. I have a huge bounty of 1.4 million. Should I be banned for killing NPC’s? It’s in the game. I have no issue.

It will be interesting to see how the banking goes...

VaranisArano · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

Idk why he did it. But he’s my friend. I have a guild for the blacklisted. It’s for people who do things that get them kicked from guilds. My Guild is called Blacklisted Bandits. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is it’s equivalent. I have a huge bounty of 1.4 million. Should I be banned for killing NPC’s? It’s in the game. I have no issue.

Uh, there's a pretty substantial difference between killing NPCs as a part of game content and stealing the items from a Guild Bank thus betraying fellow players trust. Neither is bannable, as far as I know, but I'd certainly say that one of those actions makes someone a colossal jerk (and it isn't the killing NPCs one).

But you hang out with who you want to hang out with, I guess.

redspecter23 · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

Idk why he did it. But he’s my friend. I have a guild for the blacklisted. It’s for people who do things that get them kicked from guilds. My Guild is called Blacklisted Bandits. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is it’s equivalent. I have a huge bounty of 1.4 million. Should I be banned for killing NPC’s? It’s in the game. I have no issue.

If he's your friend, maybe open up your bank for him and see how it goes.

Vaughndaunted · July 2018

@redspecter23 that’s my guy man. I’m not opening my guild bank to anyone. I’ll do give aways. A den full of blacklisted people. I’ll still treat them with respect and a home for activity.

radiostar · July 2018

No.

This is why Z needs to let Guilds control their actual bank slots, rather than try to control players. It's not going to happen with players, they're too smart and can outwit you by winning access to the bank.

However, if tabs or blocks of GUILD SLOTS are on lockdown or restriction, then it would stop some theft.

A lot of us have suggested this before, to no avail.

Aimora · July 2018

radiostar wrote: »

No.

This is why Z needs to let Guilds control their actual bank slots, rather than try to control players. It's not going to happen with players, they're too smart and can outwit you by winning access to the bank.

However, if tabs or blocks of GUILD SLOTS are on lockdown or restriction, then it would stop some theft.

A lot of us have suggested this before, to no avail.

Sadly Zo$ are not interested in QoL updates unless they can monetise it in some way

idk · July 2018

The leadership has control to limit access. If someone cleaned out their bank it is between them and whoever took everything then back to leadership.

It is generally a bad idea to give everyone free access if you are to keep anything of real value in there.

Olen_Mikko · July 2018

No.

I had open guild bank in my guild. It got robbed twice.

My advice is, never stash anything valuable in guild bank, or have it locked with trusted ranks, who can withdraw stuff

NickStern · July 2018

Asking for a friend....

Why do I always think they mean the one in the Mirror when I hear that line?

Radinyn · July 2018

Well I once took everything from the guildbank of an once great guild. But all of them fled to BDO before that and I was the only member left. Free items I guess.

RebornV3x · July 2018

No having run my own guilds and an officer in a few big guilds Zenimax will not ban you for clearing out a guild bank had it happen a few times had a guy somehow steal 300k from a guild bank and nothing he plays everyday lol why there are no bank withdraw limits in a MMO in 2018 is ridiculous even F2P games like Neverwinter etc... Have it so you can set up a max number of items and gold people can withdrawn daily

Numerikuu · July 2018

Technically he was given permission. His rank and the settings allowed him to do so. Take this as a lesson learned, change permissions, and be more wary of him in the future.

Cardthief · July 2018

As far as I know its not a bannable offence, the thing is this is what us guild leaders have to face, we choose who gets what type of access, and take a risk by putting trust in someone and giving them that access, what they do from that point on is both on them (if they gave another person access that committed the offence) and on the leader who gave them that power.

Much like real life, when you are running a business or organization and you give someone power, you are taking a risk in doing so, you have to decide if that risk was worth it or not, and if that trust is broken and items are taken, then you need to take that experience and reevaluate how you handle giving out power and access and to whom.

G1Countdown · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

A friend of mine took the items out of a guild bank. I’m not upset with him because it’s his choice. He made a decision with his own free will. He asked me permission to my guild bank. I said no. If he needs something... ask. Unfortunately for the other guild, they’re asking me if I gave him the go ahead to take the items. I said no. Is this something I should be harassed for? Is this even a bannable situation for the person who had access? Please let me know.

That says something about you and your character (pardon the pun on character). Your friend's actions reflect on you whether you like it, believe it, or not. Maybe you should start thinking about how you choose your friends. Or don't.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Its a risk every GM takes.

^This!^

If a guild master gives someone access to take something from the guild bank, they can do whatever, even take everything and its the guild masters risk.

There are many, many people who are quite shameless about taking whatever, some who even join guilds -just- to rob the guild bank; and there are only few people who are responsible and would rather make it under their own steam then lean on their guild whenever possible. Who take pride in -not- taking much from the guild unless its an emergency, and who will keep putting more in then they take out.
Its a GMs responsibility to restrict access to the guild bank for the former, and find the latter to help them in building up their guild into something decent, using the items donated to assist new guildmates in becoming a asset for the guild and so on.

And yeah, we really wish we had more options for that... like, some stages in between "nope" and "take whatever", like "restricted guild bank acces, 10K gold or one item per week" or something like that...

But since we don't, many guilds get a bit wary after such events, and restrict bank access only to the most trusted guildmembers, who have earned that trust through many contributions to the guild, both of stuff and effort, and everyone else has to ask speciofically if they want something...

ak_pvp · July 2018

Its a buyer beware system as ZOS said. No, someone can't be banned for it, though I believe ZOS has returned the items before.

Elsonso · July 2018

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

Idk why he did it. But he’s my friend. I have a guild for the blacklisted. It’s for people who do things that get them kicked from guilds. My Guild is called Blacklisted Bandits. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is it’s equivalent.

An admirable basis for a guild. I like the idea.

But, to answer the question, my impression is that ZOS does not typically ban for this. At least, not on the first offense. They might ban the person if they keep doing it, and keep getting reported.

Aimora wrote: »

Sadly Zo$ are not interested in QoL updates unless they can monetise it in some way

Not completely fair. I think they allow themselves one free QoL per Update, especially if it can also be monetized. I am sure the effort makes them feel better, in cases where it cannot.

P.S. - I wish they would just load up an Update with several QoL. Spend the $$ before they send the team off to work on another game. Update guild banks, update to a real-time mail system (with replies), add better filtering in the guild store, allow sorting on the character screen, and a bunch of other stuff.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · July 2018

yurimodin wrote: »

The guild bank system needs a serious overhaul because its either all or nothing for a member's permissions.....it would be nice to have tiers/withdraw limits or cool downs.

Second this. If guild permissions could be set to allow all members to access, say, white or green tier items with only certain higher ranks able to take out blue or purple I think it would go a long way towards improving both usability and security. Even better if the GM could specify certain items or types of items as free for all (EX: Provisioning mats) while forbidding others in the same tier.

Jameliel · July 2018

Do guilds actually keep anything worth a lot in the bank? Seems most guild leaders are kind and like to help people. The thieves should just ask for help if they want gold. Some people are greedy to an extreme degree. Real life Gollums.

Prof_Bawbag · July 2018

How much do these folk actually make from robbing banks? The gold return must be poor as it's usually decon junk, bad trait gear from junk sets, cheap as chips recipes, all differing levelled pots etc.

The only people who these people are pissing on are fellow low levelled or poor players. I know i only ever use guild banks when levelling an alt because 99% of the stuff in these banks aren't worth the listing fees required to sell elsewhere.

Raraaku · July 2018

Access Control. Which is why Role-Based Access Control is popular in not just games, but systems in general. I wouldn't say it's your fault since you didn't give the access to your friend; but if you had an idea of what he might be up to, I would have sent it up the chain of command so some form of notification could be given. I think that's probably why you're getting heckled for, particularly if one of your guilds knows that you lead a guild for those that have done... ethically concerning actions in which members have been kicked out for doing similar actions.

Is it directly your fault? I wouldn't say so. Did you have an idea of what he was going to do and failed to communicate to the others what he might try? Maybe, you did deny him access to your guild bank after all, all though that's probably for the best since all you're doing is practicing good access control. Tell you're leader/s to read up on RBAC and make changes accordingly.