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What are Dragonknights?
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Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭InBedWithMySelf wrote: »@Savos_Saren Oh, and about the mobility, pretty much the same goes to that. Stamina versions of classes just work differently. Other than explaining the difference via a very long thread or reply, I don't know how to describe the difference. But if you understand it on your own that would save me a great deal :P
So... you think that magic-based DDs shouldn't have mobility: "just cuz". Roger that.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
InBedWithMySelf✭✭✭@Savos_Saren Not by any stretch of the imagination am I implying that stamina builds should necessarily have access to mobility more than magicka. It's their stamina focus that by default allows them more mobility, that isn't even by choice. The main two things are the sprinting and dodgerolling functions(directly stamina pool related) which are far less accessible for magicka builds.
In this specific case, in my opinion, and based on these two functions, stamina DK by nature has more mobility than magicka (but not more than sorcs and nightblades, these classes have built in direct mobility).
a stamina DK could use shuffle (Highly recommended), he can dodgeroll, a lot, and he could even sprint in some situations, although that's less likely to help as opposed to dodgerolls and the soft cc immunity from shuffle.
Also, there's the ever so popular (these days) other morph of Rally, forward momentum which makes you completely immune to soft cc, for an extremely long period of 5 seconds, I think.
I hope that cleared my previous statement up. As I mentioned before I know I don't back up most of my statements, but in this sort of situation I have to.
Also, thanks for caring about this thread enough to post in it your opinions for this long, cheers.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭but magicka dks have easy access to major expedition by their gapcloser or by chaining people. especially the gapcloser got some attention with SS on magdks with flamestaffs. also is there no reason why a magdk cant go for a 2h weapon and run forward momentum (one of the best magdks on PC EU does so), since 2h and duel wield both provide higher base spelldamage and are still used on high damage builds.0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chains is much more reliable now. Not 100%... but I don't think any gap closers are.
However Expedition is very situational, it's still nearly 3200 Magicka for 6 seconds, and it's super fun to chain into an invisible Time Stop. But the last is a game design issue, not a class one. Actively engaging and standing your ground just doesn't work well when PvP has all become about mobility, mobility, mobility.
Empowering Chains also doesn't synergize well with mag DK because it no longer empowers your class attacks, and there is no melee magicka weapon. Gap closing so you can attack with a ranged weapon is not very fluid. I'd much rather see the Empower dropped for maybe an increase to 12 seconds of expedition or even a short Minor Force/Minor Berserk buff.Edited by NBrookus on June 28, 2018 7:43PM3 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭InBedWithMySelf wrote: »
Also, there's the ever so popular (these days) other morph of Rally, forward momentum which makes you completely immune to soft cc, for an extremely long period of 5 seconds, I think.
Also, thanks for caring about this thread enough to post in it your opinions for this long, cheers.
Ya but no stam DK is going to run fm because we need a burst heal.
Then we have to slot wings for the horrible immunity and drain the entire magicka pool. No longer get frag shield, then we get bad heals. Entire thing is poorly desired.0 -
InBedWithMySelf✭✭✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »InBedWithMySelf wrote: »
Then we have to slot wings for the horrible immunity and drain the entire magicka pool. No longer get frag shield, then we get bad heals. Entire thing is poorly desired.
I'm really lost, I don't understand most of what you wrote there.
Regarding what I did understand, about the burst heal vs forward momentum:
The healing, when the stats are pushed the the extent of their potential is enormous, you will find the need for rally begin to diminish, as the usefulness of forward momentum just beats rally by a mile in most cases, that definitely how it works with stamina dragonknights as well as every other class, pretty much.
My assumption is that you come as someone who has not experienced maximized modern stats, if you did, there's almost a full guarantee that you would not think as you do.0 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭InBedWithMySelf wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »InBedWithMySelf wrote: »
Then we have to slot wings for the horrible immunity and drain the entire magicka pool. No longer get frag shield, then we get bad heals. Entire thing is poorly desired.
I'm really lost, I don't understand most of what you wrote there.
Regarding what I did understand, about the burst heal vs forward momentum:
The healing, when the stats are pushed the the extent of their potential is enormous, you will find the need for rally begin to diminish, as the usefulness of forward momentum just beats rally by a mile in most cases, that definitely how it works with stamina dragonknights as well as every other class, pretty much.
My assumption is that you come as someone who has not experienced maximized modern stats, if you did, there's almost a full guarantee that you would not think as you do.
Nice quote. But are you saying you only run vigor in pvp on your stam dk?0 -
Avnr✭✭✭Still_Mind wrote: »Dragon Knights need their class identity back
was lost after thief guild update1 -
InBedWithMySelf✭✭✭@D0ntevenL1ft With maximized stats, yes, it can work, and quite well. Though you still have other sources of healing if you really want; some of the new potions, and such. Healing is easily achieved without rally, sadly. It's a bit of a messed up system that you can get so much healing without investing much at all.0
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InBedWithMySelf✭✭✭@Avnr Oh, they lost it a lot before, going way back to patch 1.6. But the changes to damage types on abilities from thieves guild, where everything did fire damage, which was good for the modern meta, made them lose their identity completely.
Sadly the change was bad in every other way.0 -
Renegade1O✭✭I am a PVP player and I have four heals on my bar that are DK skills. Burning embers, Dragon Blood, cauterize, and power Lash. I don't know what in the world you're talking about when you say the class is incapable of healing. Maybe you have an issue with your Champion setup. Also wings are perfect right now. Buffed to 6 seconds and Immunity to snares. I don't really use ash cloud so I have no opinion about that really. Aside from the fossilize bug causing me to reset every now and then, my DK is on point this patch.Edited by Renegade1O on June 29, 2018 4:55PM2
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griffkhalifa✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »InBedWithMySelf wrote: »@Savos_Saren Oh, and about the mobility, pretty much the same goes to that. Stamina versions of classes just work differently. Other than explaining the difference via a very long thread or reply, I don't know how to describe the difference. But if you understand it on your own that would save me a great deal :P
So... you think that magic-based DDs shouldn't have mobility: "just cuz". Roger that.
So...you think every class should be the same? I always here people complaining about their class not having "x" when some other class has it, which is a stupid argument; if every class could do everything there would be no difference between the classes, which defeats the purpose of even having different classes.
I see nothing wrong with some classes being more mobile while others are tankier, etc.PS4 NA0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭griffkhalifa wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »InBedWithMySelf wrote: »@Savos_Saren Oh, and about the mobility, pretty much the same goes to that. Stamina versions of classes just work differently. Other than explaining the difference via a very long thread or reply, I don't know how to describe the difference. But if you understand it on your own that would save me a great deal :P
So... you think that magic-based DDs shouldn't have mobility: "just cuz". Roger that.
So...you think every class should be the same? I always here people complaining about their class not having "x" when some other class has it, which is a stupid argument; if every class could do everything there would be no difference between the classes, which defeats the purpose of even having different classes.
I see nothing wrong with some classes being more mobile while others are tankier, etc.
That's if the class were still the tankier version of its original self. ZOS has pushed away from the DK "stand-your-ground" style. All the classes have diversified to be able to tank, heal, and be DDs. In PVP, mobility is an absolute must. DK Healers need to be able to escape ball zergs in order to heal their allies. Damage dealers need to be able to catch up to their enemies to do damage.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭griffkhalifa wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »InBedWithMySelf wrote: »@Savos_Saren Oh, and about the mobility, pretty much the same goes to that. Stamina versions of classes just work differently. Other than explaining the difference via a very long thread or reply, I don't know how to describe the difference. But if you understand it on your own that would save me a great deal :P
So... you think that magic-based DDs shouldn't have mobility: "just cuz". Roger that.
So...you think every class should be the same? I always here people complaining about their class not having "x" when some other class has it, which is a stupid argument; if every class could do everything there would be no difference between the classes, which defeats the purpose of even having different classes.
I see nothing wrong with some classes being more mobile while others are tankier, etc.
But DKs are no longer tankier than everyone else, and mobility is no longer an option.
If they buff DKs to be able to tank the damage of a typical coordinated ult bomb while perma-defiled and stunned and still be able to turn around and kill people, it'll make the permabats era look tame. That's why we are asking for better mobility, because you HAVE to avoid that damage. You can't just sit there and eat it or you're dead.1 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭InBedWithMySelf wrote: »@D0ntevenL1ft With maximized stats, yes, it can work, and quite well. Though you still have other sources of healing if you really want; some of the new potions, and such. Healing is easily achieved without rally, sadly. It's a bit of a messed up system that you can get so much healing without investing much at all.
Rofl with all the healing? How about defile and befoul? Youre running just vigor dont talk like youre some sort of max player with "max stats" and play like that0 -
Khumbu✭✭✭What is a Dragon Knight? A miserable little pile of flame spells.
... sorry, couldn't resist
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I do disagree with this post. I will not go on detail as to why, but I will simply say that since morrowind came out, stamina Dk, is the one who suffered the biggest fall, magicka Dk on the other hand is back wih a vengeance and gets progressively more stronger each patch.
This is what I've been witnessing since morrowind came out. I am not here to offend you or start drama. I just want to say that I disagree, just want to say that magicka Dks steal all the spotlight when it comes to ''buff me'' posts , some of which stamina Dk deserved to have.Edited by Ragnarock41 on June 30, 2018 6:35AM2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I do disagree with this post. I will not go on detail as to why, but I will simply say that since morrowind came out, stamina Dk, is the one who suffered the biggest fall, magicka Dk on the other hand is back wih a vengeance and gets progressively more stronger each patch.
This is what I've been witnessing since morrowind came out. I am not here to offend you or start drama. I just want to say that I disagree, just want to say that magicka Dks steal all the spotlight when it comes to ''buff me'' posts , some of which stamina Dk deserved to have.
I am not saying don't buff stamina, but mag gets the main amount of buff talk since stamDK's issues stem from universal stamina tools too, wheras mag is basically the class. Stamina DK was still very strong right up until the last 7th nerf, the access to shuffle and the like was good.
MagDK didn't really get much buffs, it was either 1) Partial unnerfs 2) Buffs...but with nerfs 3) Useless. For instance whip, combustion, igneous shield, and fossilize fall within 1 and 2, both either ending up the same, or worse that before. Whip specifically a large pain point for DKs. Then you get the snare removal, ash cloud, obsidian shard and the heal on shattering as part of group 3.
The only exemptions in the last year that are buffs alone are shifting (25 ult increase and like 9s less, but a lot better) and cauterize (Now targets self, really useful) I suppose making empowering actually work after 2 years might count lul.
I'd honestly say it is weaker now than last patch since the meta changed heavily towards defiles, bleeds and sloads whilst after stand your ground was killed in prior patches. Then the heavy whip nerf too.
The reason MagDK isn't bottom tier anymore is mainly because they nerfed stamDK, magplar, stamplar and magden to a lower level. The current light armour meta DK is riding on the coat tails of sorc and NB to a lesser effectiveness, old heavy MagDK is well and truly RIP as of now.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
InBedWithMySelf✭✭✭@Khumbu haha, good one, in many cases that's pretty much true. Atleast this pile of flame has some style, though 1.5 animations simply looked better.0
