PVP Tier List for 1vX Cyrodiil (Opinion)

Waffennacht · June 2018

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

1vX against say 3 equal people doesn't make sense right?

But 1vX against 3 lesser equipped, skilled, whatever, does

I think that's the disconnect. Of course I shouldn't be able to beat @Lexxypwns @Minno and @Thogard alone but I should be able to destroy "play as I want" resto fire rune spammer A, B, and C

depends where you fight those 3 and the context.

If I have 3 good players following me in cyro, then I consider that a win because those 3 aren't pug-smashing in open cyro.

Same for BGs, if 3 good players are focusing me, I may not be able to do anything less than defending but my 3 other teammates are running hitting objectives.

I just wanted to add how maddening it is to have this and your allies Not go for the objective (in BGs)

I never feel the same level of frustration from my enemies as I do my allies

CyrusArya · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

He's defenitly right that stamplar is a horrible class for 1vX unless you can play against NA pugs, a special kind of scrubs not being able to cast more than 1 skill every 5 seconds and making PotL not needed as they won't even heal themselves.

Stamplar is one of the easiest classes to kill in a 1vX as well as being highly dependent on the enemy.
One enemy that applies high pressure negates templar burst entirely as both jabs and PotL will be crap.
Let's not even talk about sustain at this point

The only class that's even worse is Stamdk, the burst there is like playing a stamplar without jabs and potl all the time

No, he is not right at all. Stamplar is a challenging class to play, and completely outclassed by stamblade/warden for 1vx. But that doesn't make it horrible. Like I said, its firmly middle of the pack. Is it squishy? Yes. Does it have bad sustain? Yeah. But you also have incredible offensive pressure and most importantly a PURGE. Which is more valuable today than ever before. Dawnbreaker->Jabs is incredibly potent in 1vX situations.

The class isn't top tier but it isn't bad either, and can be quite strong in the right hands.

BohnT · June 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

He's defenitly right that stamplar is a horrible class for 1vX unless you can play against NA pugs, a special kind of scrubs not being able to cast more than 1 skill every 5 seconds and making PotL not needed as they won't even heal themselves.

Stamplar is one of the easiest classes to kill in a 1vX as well as being highly dependent on the enemy.
One enemy that applies high pressure negates templar burst entirely as both jabs and PotL will be crap.
Let's not even talk about sustain at this point

The only class that's even worse is Stamdk, the burst there is like playing a stamplar without jabs and potl all the time

No, he is not right at all. Stamplar is a challenging class to play, and completely outclassed by stamblade/warden for 1vx. But that doesn't make it horrible. Like I said, its firmly middle of the pack. Is it squishy? Yes. Does it have bad sustain? Yeah. But you also have incredible offensive pressure and most importantly a PURGE. Which is more valuable today than ever before. Dawnbreaker->Jabs is incredibly potent in 1vX situations.

The class isn't top tier but it isn't bad either, and can be quite strong in the right hands.

It's worse than magsorc, stamnb, stamwarden, magdk, magnb, stamsorc, magplar.
That's 7 specs being better for 1vX than stamplar and the difference between the 7th best class and the last 3 classes is rather big.

Can you do well with it? Sure
Can you nuke scrubs with it? Yes ofc
Is it outclassed by other specs? Yes

1vX is about skill difference and with the class you choose this skill cap can be reduced.

If you run another you can 1vX much better players than on a stamplar and this makes stamplar in fact a worse class for 1vX.

Ulfgarde · June 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

Dillpat wrote: »

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: MagDen, Stamplar

Yes, it pretty inaccurate to put stamplar as being equal to mag sorc. But it’s even more idiotic to put it at the lowest tier with magden, lmao. Stamplar is solidly middle of the pack.

TBH, I think I dislike bad players who complain about my own class even more than bad players of other classes complaining about my class. All you do is invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism.

The low sustain and survival makes the class unsuitable for 1vX. Yes, you have high-pressure action, but you don't have the survival to pull it off. Your low sustain makes kiting near-impossible. It's nowhere near as strong as magsorc is, and it's definitely not a class intended for solo, outnumbered situations.

It's a very strong pick for BGS and small groups. But 1vX? You'll get steamrolled.

BohnT · June 2018

Ulfgarde wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Dillpat wrote: »

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: MagDen, Stamplar

Yes, it pretty inaccurate to put stamplar as being equal to mag sorc. But it’s even more idiotic to put it at the lowest tier with magden, lmao. Stamplar is solidly middle of the pack.

TBH, I think I dislike bad players who complain about my own class even more than bad players of other classes complaining about my class. All you do is invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism.

The low sustain and survival makes the class unsuitable for 1vX. Yes, you have high-pressure action, but you don't have the survival to pull it off. Your low sustain makes kiting near-impossible. It's nowhere near as strong as magsorc is, and it's definitely not a class intended for solo, outnumbered situations.

It's a very strong pick for BGS and small groups. But 1vX? You'll get steamrolled.

That's one of the most important things about stamplar.
In solo it's not optimal but damn stamplar is a beast in smallscale due to its pressure

Dillpat · June 2018

grannas211 wrote: »

Dillpat wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: magsorc, Stamplar
C Tier: MagDK, StamDK
D Tier: MagDen, Magplar

EDIT 1: Adjusted Magplar to C Tier after careful consideration. A great group class but just not good for 1vX.

EDIT 2: Adjusted StamDK to C Tier.

plz exsplain how a stamplar is on the same level as a mag sorc when:
- it has no spamable burst heal unlike how healing ward works- rally has a wind up time of about 6-8 seconds to get a decently sized heal out of it and vigor is also a ticking skil.

- no direct dmg mitigation skill unlike a sorc does with harness and harden. yes they can cleanse dots but this does not save them from straight high dmg hits and while sorc has to run light but gets shields out of it meaning they can't be crit and resistances don't matter as much, in med straight high dmg hits exceptionally hard.

- no native speed buts unlike how a sorc gets stream which also functions as a mitigation skill due to either using the absorb morph or being able to block and roll while in streak. it is also a stun which alleviates pressure. where is stamplars equivalent to steak? not even using a speed buff such as the psijic one or rapids even comes anywhere near to how good streak is.

- Stamplars need to use shuffle for snare immunity to get all 2.5 seconds of it while other stam classes can use forward momentum which gives 8 seconds of immunity and has a fraction of the cost.

- Sorc literally have access to more skills while in combat due to the 3rd bar overload AND ability to slot an ult on this bar meaning they are not as restricted on bar space as a templar

- Rune cage + meteor is an undodgeable and super strong combo. Stamplar cna get nice combos with dbos and potl but not only can this be telegraphed by the potl timer and visial animation but dbos can easily bug out and miss even when you are ontop of the enemy while rune cage cc goes through block and roll? where is templars cc to let them cc through block or roll?

-Sorc get a skill which directly counters CQC builds. mines will stop a stam user in their tracks. what is templars counter to mag or stam? yes they can cleanse dots but most stamplars will have between 9-12k mag which comes to 3 cleanses in 1 pool and dont run high mag recovery and mag dots only really effect mag dks but you can re-apply the dots when a stamplar cant keep cleansing them.

Every other stam class bar stamblade and stam dk has a spamable class native heal. Stamblade is able to get crit vigor ticks and rally ticks with ease and stam dk gets healing back when they use an ult and has crazy ult gen. (stamplar can only make 3 ult every 6 seconds via the 1 skill in dawns wrath which has a stamina morph)

Where are stamplars sustain skills? Mag sorc has regen and reduce cost passives and dark exchange. Stamplar gets 1 passive which gives less sustain and less dmg but considerable amounts. Sorc also get lich which gives insane regen on its own. Stamina as a whole has nothing like lich

IDK how you came to the interpretation that Stamplar = Mag sorc and > DKs. mag sorc should be top tier.
Magplar can do everything a stamplar can do but can cleanse more, has minor magicka steal and access to sets like lich, amberplasm and transmutation oh and ofc has not only a burst heal but can viably use more than just 1 skill in the dawn's wrath line

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: MagDen, Stamplar

Stopped reading at sorc having a burst heal. Lol.

so what is dark deal/ dark exchange if it gives 5k health back in 1 second and is spamable as long as u can manage your stats to cast it when needed. its a matter of perspective and it is both a sustain skill and a heal.

Dillpat · June 2018

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Dillpat · June 2018

So what is the "actually relevant criticism" that I am invalidating? Please explain?

My post was simply to show Stamplar is not equal to mag sorc or > Dks and its 1vX capability or small scale capabilities are not as good as other classes.

If anything current meta "bleed plars" are more so the ones who " invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism" as bleeds are overperforming atm, its unanimous sloads is overperforming it goes through shields and is unmanageable but bleeds are only mitigated by protection buffs, ignoring resistances ect. they don't ignore shields but still unmitigatable dmg. (a bit off the topic ik). But in retrospect of there being a 6th tier id prob go like this.

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK, Bleedplars
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: Stamplar(non bleeds)
E Tier: MagDen

But ofc we can agree to disagree, its opinion anyway.

GC0 · June 2018

Dillpat wrote: »

So what is the "actually relevant criticism" that I am invalidating? Please explain?

My post was simply to show Stamplar is not equal to mag sorc or > Dks and its 1vX capability or small scale capabilities are not as good as other classes.

If anything current meta "bleed plars" are more so the ones who " invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism" as bleeds are overperforming atm, its unanimous sloads is overperforming it goes through shields and is unmanageable but bleeds are only mitigated by protection buffs, ignoring resistances ect. they don't ignore shields but still unmitigatable dmg. (a bit off the topic ik). But in retrospect of there being a 6th tier id prob go like this.

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK, Bleedplars
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: Stamplar(non bleeds)
E Tier: MagDen

But ofc we can agree to disagree, its opinion anyway.

Finally accurate and proper rating for classes

IZZEFlameLash · June 2018

Dillpat wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Dillpat wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: magsorc, Stamplar
C Tier: MagDK, StamDK
D Tier: MagDen, Magplar

EDIT 1: Adjusted Magplar to C Tier after careful consideration. A great group class but just not good for 1vX.

EDIT 2: Adjusted StamDK to C Tier.

plz exsplain how a stamplar is on the same level as a mag sorc when:
- it has no spamable burst heal unlike how healing ward works- rally has a wind up time of about 6-8 seconds to get a decently sized heal out of it and vigor is also a ticking skil.

- no direct dmg mitigation skill unlike a sorc does with harness and harden. yes they can cleanse dots but this does not save them from straight high dmg hits and while sorc has to run light but gets shields out of it meaning they can't be crit and resistances don't matter as much, in med straight high dmg hits exceptionally hard.

- no native speed buts unlike how a sorc gets stream which also functions as a mitigation skill due to either using the absorb morph or being able to block and roll while in streak. it is also a stun which alleviates pressure. where is stamplars equivalent to steak? not even using a speed buff such as the psijic one or rapids even comes anywhere near to how good streak is.

- Stamplars need to use shuffle for snare immunity to get all 2.5 seconds of it while other stam classes can use forward momentum which gives 8 seconds of immunity and has a fraction of the cost.

- Sorc literally have access to more skills while in combat due to the 3rd bar overload AND ability to slot an ult on this bar meaning they are not as restricted on bar space as a templar

- Rune cage + meteor is an undodgeable and super strong combo. Stamplar cna get nice combos with dbos and potl but not only can this be telegraphed by the potl timer and visial animation but dbos can easily bug out and miss even when you are ontop of the enemy while rune cage cc goes through block and roll? where is templars cc to let them cc through block or roll?

-Sorc get a skill which directly counters CQC builds. mines will stop a stam user in their tracks. what is templars counter to mag or stam? yes they can cleanse dots but most stamplars will have between 9-12k mag which comes to 3 cleanses in 1 pool and dont run high mag recovery and mag dots only really effect mag dks but you can re-apply the dots when a stamplar cant keep cleansing them.

Every other stam class bar stamblade and stam dk has a spamable class native heal. Stamblade is able to get crit vigor ticks and rally ticks with ease and stam dk gets healing back when they use an ult and has crazy ult gen. (stamplar can only make 3 ult every 6 seconds via the 1 skill in dawns wrath which has a stamina morph)

Where are stamplars sustain skills? Mag sorc has regen and reduce cost passives and dark exchange. Stamplar gets 1 passive which gives less sustain and less dmg but considerable amounts. Sorc also get lich which gives insane regen on its own. Stamina as a whole has nothing like lich

IDK how you came to the interpretation that Stamplar = Mag sorc and > DKs. mag sorc should be top tier.
Magplar can do everything a stamplar can do but can cleanse more, has minor magicka steal and access to sets like lich, amberplasm and transmutation oh and ofc has not only a burst heal but can viably use more than just 1 skill in the dawn's wrath line

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: MagDen, Stamplar

Stopped reading at sorc having a burst heal. Lol.

so what is dark deal/ dark exchange if it gives 5k health back in 1 second and is spamable as long as u can manage your stats to cast it when needed. its a matter of perspective and it is both a sustain skill and a heal.

Dark Deal doesn't heal for 5k in PvP. A true burst heal would heal more than 5k easily.

CatchMeTrolling · June 2018

Dillpat wrote: »

So what is the "actually relevant criticism" that I am invalidating? Please explain?

My post was simply to show Stamplar is not equal to mag sorc or > Dks and its 1vX capability or small scale capabilities are not as good as other classes.

If anything current meta "bleed plars" are more so the ones who " invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism" as bleeds are overperforming atm, its unanimous sloads is overperforming it goes through shields and is unmanageable but bleeds are only mitigated by protection buffs, ignoring resistances ect. they don't ignore shields but still unmitigatable dmg. (a bit off the topic ik). But in retrospect of there being a 6th tier id prob go like this.

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK, Bleedplars
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: Stamplar(non bleeds)
E Tier: MagDen

But ofc we can agree to disagree, its opinion anyway.

Every stam class is good with bleeds so you’d have to consider all of them. But if we’re talking 1vx, stamplar will still struggle from the same things except you have a chance to proc a bleed.

CyrusArya · June 2018

Dillpat wrote: »

So what is the "actually relevant criticism" that I am invalidating? Please explain?

My post was simply to show Stamplar is not equal to mag sorc or > Dks and its 1vX capability or small scale capabilities are not as good as other classes.

If anything current meta "bleed plars" are more so the ones who " invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism" as bleeds are overperforming atm, its unanimous sloads is overperforming it goes through shields and is unmanageable but bleeds are only mitigated by protection buffs, ignoring resistances ect. they don't ignore shields but still unmitigatable dmg. (a bit off the topic ik). But in retrospect of there being a 6th tier id prob go like this.

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK, Bleedplars
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: Stamplar(non bleeds)
E Tier: MagDen

But ofc we can agree to disagree, its opinion anyway.

Just because you personally choose to play an unoptimal build for your class does not make it reasonable to split the class up based on build archetype. Bleeds play to the strength of stamplar and the class is very mediocre in other set ups compared to other classes. But that doesn’t mean splitting up the list like this makes any sense. It’s like playing a sword and board mag sorc and then saying sorcs are weak, lol. You’re choosing to not play to the strrengths of the class using the tools available. Wether or not bleeds are op is debatable, but they are not “unmitigatable ” more or less than any other dot. They simply ignore armor resistance (the only difference) and that doesn’t change how they mechanically function.

At any rate, in any build, it’s just absurd to put stamplar at the lowest tier alongside magden lol. Regardless of what your build is. If that’s really how you feel you either don’t have a well rounded perspective or are just a bad stamplar. I just am not a fan of people who exaggerate issues on balance, especially when it’s the self pitying kind that thinks their own class is terrible when it’s not.

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

You forgot
Tier F: Werewolves, no snare removal, magica heals as a stam class, clunky, bugged attack animations huge weakness to poison and defile builds^^

Im still waiting for the day somebody posts a 1vs(more then 5) similtaniously as a werewolf (on console, no add on cheats to u PC-Players^^)
My limit is usually 3 average players provided no one plays with defile or other cancer^^

D0ntevenL1ft · June 2018

GC0 wrote: »

Dillpat wrote: »

So what is the "actually relevant criticism" that I am invalidating? Please explain?

My post was simply to show Stamplar is not equal to mag sorc or > Dks and its 1vX capability or small scale capabilities are not as good as other classes.

If anything current meta "bleed plars" are more so the ones who " invalidate and dilute the actually relevant criticism" as bleeds are overperforming atm, its unanimous sloads is overperforming it goes through shields and is unmanageable but bleeds are only mitigated by protection buffs, ignoring resistances ect. they don't ignore shields but still unmitigatable dmg. (a bit off the topic ik). But in retrospect of there being a 6th tier id prob go like this.

S Tier: Stamden, Stamblade, Mag sorc
A Tier: Stamsorc, Magblade
B Tier: Mag dk, Stam DK, Bleedplars
C Tier: Magplar
D Tier: Stamplar(non bleeds)
E Tier: MagDen

But ofc we can agree to disagree, its opinion anyway.

Finally accurate and proper rating for classes

Disagree. Id drop Stam DK to C tier UNLESS its running DW. Dizzying is the oldest spam in the book and so easily countered that it makes the class incredibly useless if thats all it relies on.

Other than that the rest is accurate.

Vapirko · June 2018

I have a much easier time 1vX on mag sorc than Stam Sorc right now.

BaneOfBattler · June 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

What's S Tier mean? Stamina lol?

s stands for sloads

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

This is a suprisingly accurate list for solo PvP. I would like to read your opinions on group PvP , depending on small scale and big raids.

I do believe stamina Dk is actually a little easier to solo with than magDk this patch, since against sload users the only option is running away, and magicka Dk can't really run away. (this is absolutely not the case for group PvP by the way, in group v group magDk has insane amounts of self healing, and even better: offensive heals.)

After this whole oblivion damage madness is gone however, magicka Dk will sit in a much better spot. And If wings get another buff, than they will be in a much stronger spot for sure.

Unfadingsilence · June 2018

https://youtu.be/Ao7SpwfoFqg

Amdar_Godkiller · June 2018

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Pretty accurate, except stamden is basically countered by a stam nightblade, and that's the most common class in cyrodiil by a hefty margin.

They are hard countered by stamplar. Stamblades are more of a soft counter for stamdens. Either way, with the buffs to magicka and the fact that they are basically at the mercy of any melee class, stamden has no business being near the top of this list.

They are good at x v 1 and x v x, but not 1 v x.

CyrusArya · June 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

They are hard countered by stamplar. Stamblades are more of a soft counter for stamdens. Either way, with the buffs to magicka and the fact that they are basically at the mercy of any melee class, stamden has no business being near the top of this list.

They are good at x v 1 and x v x, but not 1 v x.

So much wrong with this post. Stamblades counter stamden because they can duck sub assaults with cloak. How exactly do stamplars counter stamden in any way? Is it by purging off all the stamden dots? Or does jabs directly counter a defensive mechanic? How is stamden at the “mercy” of any melee class more so than other classes? As the only stam class with a burst heal, they are actually best equipped to deal with it.

Warden is excellent 1vX cus it has all the tools for it: incredible mitigation&healing, great sustain, high burst. Is it the best? That’s debatable. But it absolutely is one of the top classes for 1vX, and probably a top class for any format of pvp.

ak_pvp · June 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

They are hard countered by stamplar. Stamblades are more of a soft counter for stamdens. Either way, with the buffs to magicka and the fact that they are basically at the mercy of any melee class, stamden has no business being near the top of this list.

They are good at x v 1 and x v x, but not 1 v x.

So much wrong with this post. Stamblades counter stamden because they can duck sub assaults with cloak. How exactly do stamplars counter stamden in any way? Is it by purging off all the stamden dots? Or does jabs directly counter a defensive mechanic? How is stamden at the “mercy” of any melee class more so than other classes? As the only stam class with a burst heal, they are actually best equipped to deal with it.

Warden is excellent 1vX cus it has all the tools for it: incredible mitigation&healing, great sustain, high burst. Is it the best? That’s debatable. But it absolutely is one of the top classes for 1vX, and probably a top class for any format of pvp.

Its not really a hard counter to stamden, on account of other factors, but you could argue since stamplar, especially bleedplar is a tank masher with POTL/Jabs, and stamden is generally a tanky playstyle.