Thogard wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm wondering.. if Sorcs wouldn't be that strong atm would everyone reroll to thier Templar? If I have a Templar I would pick him and give him sloads, knightslayer and troll king or engine guardian and go full deff. Wouldn't this fix the sorc problem?

No because trmplars can’t confirm their kills. That build would do 90% of the work of killing a player, but the credit would go to a mag sorc on the third team who threw out an endless fury from the other side of the map.

Radiant oppression in BGs is pretty much a guarantee that a sorc on the third team will get credit for the kill. It’s like a giant beacon that says “spam fury on this target I’m beaming!”

That Fury ist broken in TDM is obvious. I assume everyone knows that

Thogard wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

I'm wondering.. if Sorcs wouldn't be that strong atm would everyone reroll to thier Templar? If I have a Templar I would pick him and give him sloads, knightslayer and troll king or engine guardian and go full deff. Wouldn't this fix the sorc problem?

No because trmplars can’t confirm their kills. That build would do 90% of the work of killing a player, but the credit would go to a mag sorc on the third team who threw out an endless fury from the other side of the map.

Radiant oppression in BGs is pretty much a guarantee that a sorc on the third team will get credit for the kill. It’s like a giant beacon that says “spam fury on this target I’m beaming!”

That Fury ist broken in TDM is obvious. I assume everyone knows that

True. But nightblades and any Stam toon can also steal the kill. Oppression is technically a dot, so any burst execute will steal the kill.

That's why I run Onslaught on my magNB in TDM.. kinda weird?


It feels like a big part of ESO devs and community never played MMOs before? TDM in fits more Quake for example.. but TDM in MMOs, are they ***** me?

People ask for Battle Royal.. what's fun in every game would survive 2 or 3 tanks they couldn't kill each other?

Qbiken wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I really have no trouble with sloads 1v1. It becomes a problem when 3 players who aren't focusing me happen to proc it on me at one time from some AOE cleave. Being focused is bad as well but generally you are going to lose that fight anyways. I have only noticed it on a few death recaps so far.

that really is the truth,
and also, if we ever disagree with them about anything then "according to them" that means we are bad players.
we aren't bad players.
it's not fair commenting in an open thread to tell us we are bad players just because we share our experiences and our honest opinions.

the reason i do not use sloads is because it forces me out of stealth to put it on others because its a DOT and any DOT i place on people wont let me stealth, in addition to that its damage is weak, only procs chance is 10% meaning i cant control when it procs so i see it as a weak set.
the only time it will work good is if i and a group of people are ALL wearing it and we target 1 player, just like you said.
that is the truth.

Yeah that bold part is pretty accurate. Would you not say that there is a strong correlation between player skill and a willingness to engage the opponent when outnumbered?

Sure there are some good zerglings out there who revel in winning those 10v1 fights and are also good at 1v1s... but let’s be honest... if you’re using a set that shines when you outnumber your opponent, and if you’re usually and intentionally in situations where you outnumber your opponents, odds are that you aren’t challenging yourself enough to develop into a good player.

you will die to a group of people no matter what they are wearing, some people are able to fight groups of people with thier builds because those builds are overpowered, has nothing to do with set of armor.
i do not wear sloads because it pulls me out of stealth to put a dot on someone, and im all about stealth.
im not in favor of sloads, but sloads damage is childs play and easily avoided.

No it isn’t. It’s the highest PvP dps set by a significant margin. Your facts are completely wrong, and this isn’t an opinion thing either, it’s just pure math.

If it's pure math I would love to see your calculations on this...

@The_Protagonist
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance

Thank you, I agree with the comparison, but this is to that specific build, I am open to more data that give more insight to other builds as well. Bleeds is a good example as it ignores all physical mitigation but is affected by battle spirit, where as oblivion damage is unaffected by anything and everything.

Compounding the problem is the ease at which Sload's is available by crafting and Master Daggers requires a few hours of dedicated group play to get them and still is under performing in comparison to Sload's.

But one final thought that I have is that bleed damage can be buffed by increasing weapon damage, as far as oblivion damage is concerned I am unaware if anything buffs it (I highly doubt it is buffed by either SD or WD)

Thank you for reminding me to have a closer look at that thread, we need more comparisons to make a good case for adjustment. We should have a look at over performing magicka builds too in conjunction with Sload's.

Rittings wrote: »

There are several counter sets to Sloads... and since the set itself doesn't give that great of a bonus, you counter it - the player is weak and exposed. I don't see it as much as broken, in as much as I see players not adjusting their game.

Funny that I still watch practically unkillable tanks in BGs but no-one is concerned about those? lol. I've played with Sloads and without it... and my kill ratio is nearly always MUCH better without it. It's a dramatic drop in my dps with it on.

You see big numbers in the feedback and blame Sloads because it is a dot, and that figure has been calculated the entire time the dot has been taking your life away... I still see better numbers with viper's sting...

No, the only way you’re seeing better numbers with vipers sting is if you have a severe case of dyslexia or you’re not actually looking at the numbers. But if you have a combat metrics report of a fight that lasted more than 5 seconds that shows viper ahead of sloads, please post it and prove me wrong.

Lol, don’t Sload me bro

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I really have no trouble with sloads 1v1. It becomes a problem when 3 players who aren't focusing me happen to proc it on me at one time from some AOE cleave. Being focused is bad as well but generally you are going to lose that fight anyways. I have only noticed it on a few death recaps so far.

that really is the truth,
and also, if we ever disagree with them about anything then "according to them" that means we are bad players.
we aren't bad players.
it's not fair commenting in an open thread to tell us we are bad players just because we share our experiences and our honest opinions.

the reason i do not use sloads is because it forces me out of stealth to put it on others because its a DOT and any DOT i place on people wont let me stealth, in addition to that its damage is weak, only procs chance is 10% meaning i cant control when it procs so i see it as a weak set.
the only time it will work good is if i and a group of people are ALL wearing it and we target 1 player, just like you said.
that is the truth.

Yeah that bold part is pretty accurate. Would you not say that there is a strong correlation between player skill and a willingness to engage the opponent when outnumbered?

Sure there are some good zerglings out there who revel in winning those 10v1 fights and are also good at 1v1s... but let’s be honest... if you’re using a set that shines when you outnumber your opponent, and if you’re usually and intentionally in situations where you outnumber your opponents, odds are that you aren’t challenging yourself enough to develop into a good player.

you will die to a group of people no matter what they are wearing, some people are able to fight groups of people with thier builds because those builds are overpowered, has nothing to do with set of armor.
i do not wear sloads because it pulls me out of stealth to put a dot on someone, and im all about stealth.
im not in favor of sloads, but sloads damage is childs play and easily avoided.

No it isn’t. It’s the highest PvP dps set by a significant margin. Your facts are completely wrong, and this isn’t an opinion thing either, it’s just pure math.

This is not accurate. Maybe on paper if you calculate a theoretical 100% uptime, but not in real BGs. I personally compare my combat metrics after every BG (since I do a lot of build testing). So far from my testing, sloads is only no.3 in PvP DPS over the course of full BG matches. It is outperformed by (at least) 2 other sets, of course depending on the build used.

The build platform I use for my testing is a frost magwarden. Sloads may be the easiest to achieve stable performance with due to its simple proc condition and it working on all setups equally well - but it is NOT the best performing PvP DPS set! The no.1 PvP DPS set (another 5p set) outperforms it by about 150-200% in actual damage done over the course of any BG match I played with both sets equipped.

I am 100% sure you didnt do much testing yourself, but rely fully on theory (the math you are speaking of) or you wouldn't have made the statement I quotet.

Edit: I am not defending sloads and I don't want to backstab you, but I invested a lot of time in testing this over the course of the past weeks. My results are consistent and very clear. From all sets I have tested, Sloads is a strong no.3 in no-cp PVP dps. Not even close to being no.1, tho.

What are you showing as #1?

Red mountain with a wall of elements build?

I’d want to rule out any set that requires you to take dmg (or block dmg) before dealing dmg. Those are situational and do not compare. I’m aware that they’ll show big numbers if you’re playing against bad players though.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The #1 plays in a league of its own, its miles ahead of anything else I tested. I'm sure you will find out very easy. It also benefits enormously from woe (which is incremental part of the build I used while testing), so you are on the right track.

Torugs?

ChefZero wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I really have no trouble with sloads 1v1. It becomes a problem when 3 players who aren't focusing me happen to proc it on me at one time from some AOE cleave. Being focused is bad as well but generally you are going to lose that fight anyways. I have only noticed it on a few death recaps so far.

that really is the truth,
and also, if we ever disagree with them about anything then "according to them" that means we are bad players.
we aren't bad players.
it's not fair commenting in an open thread to tell us we are bad players just because we share our experiences and our honest opinions.

the reason i do not use sloads is because it forces me out of stealth to put it on others because its a DOT and any DOT i place on people wont let me stealth, in addition to that its damage is weak, only procs chance is 10% meaning i cant control when it procs so i see it as a weak set.
the only time it will work good is if i and a group of people are ALL wearing it and we target 1 player, just like you said.
that is the truth.

Yeah that bold part is pretty accurate. Would you not say that there is a strong correlation between player skill and a willingness to engage the opponent when outnumbered?

Sure there are some good zerglings out there who revel in winning those 10v1 fights and are also good at 1v1s... but let’s be honest... if you’re using a set that shines when you outnumber your opponent, and if you’re usually and intentionally in situations where you outnumber your opponents, odds are that you aren’t challenging yourself enough to develop into a good player.

you will die to a group of people no matter what they are wearing, some people are able to fight groups of people with thier builds because those builds are overpowered, has nothing to do with set of armor.
i do not wear sloads because it pulls me out of stealth to put a dot on someone, and im all about stealth.
im not in favor of sloads, but sloads damage is childs play and easily avoided.

No it isn’t. It’s the highest PvP dps set by a significant margin. Your facts are completely wrong, and this isn’t an opinion thing either, it’s just pure math.

This is not accurate. Maybe on paper if you calculate a theoretical 100% uptime, but not in real BGs. I personally compare my combat metrics after every BG (since I do a lot of build testing). So far from my testing, sloads is only no.3 in PvP DPS over the course of full BG matches. It is outperformed by (at least) 2 other sets, of course depending on the build used.

The build platform I use for my testing is a frost magwarden. Sloads may be the easiest to achieve stable performance with due to its simple proc condition and it working on all setups equally well - but it is NOT the best performing PvP DPS set! The no.1 PvP DPS set (another 5p set) outperforms it by about 150-200% in actual damage done over the course of any BG match I played with both sets equipped.

I am 100% sure you didnt do much testing yourself, but rely fully on theory (the math you are speaking of) or you wouldn't have made the statement I quotet.

Edit: I am not defending sloads and I don't want to backstab you, but I invested a lot of time in testing this over the course of the past weeks. My results are consistent and very clear. From all sets I have tested, Sloads is a strong no.3 in no-cp PVP dps. Not even close to being no.1, tho.

Lol this sounds like a PvE thread

But seriously, I don't know which set you're talking about and I can't follow your arguments.

Whats the point doing 200% DpS on a shield while Sload already can do 100% on the HP?

If you evaluate CBM after a BG how do you sperate effective from ineffective DpS? (cause I can DpS shieldstacking builds a lot without any success)

What's the point about using bloodthirsty trait especially in No-CP where common HP are ≤25k? (besides >80% KS through Fury prox)

Isn't it situationally if your DpS relaying on a ground AoE like WoE?

You are asking questions that make no sense in regard to the actual issue I was replying to. Woe being great or not, bloodthirsty being great or not, DPS being effective or not - it doesn't matter, since I was replying to "Sloads has highest PvP DPS!".

Bloodthirsty is a way to optimize the return on non-oblivion procs just like any other positive % based damage multi (i.e. berserk, vulnerability) and woe helps triggering a lot of procs on cooldown. My goal by traiting bloodthirsty was to find out how much it would boost common procsets over the course of full bg games compared to sloads (since sloads is unaffected by any positive multi, even the double dmg sigil). I recommend you go get sloads, pair it with some proc sets that have high uptime/frequency and do your own testing.

I'm not here to teach, I'm giving a piece of information - anyone is free to verify with his/her own testing. You are a prime example for why I usually avoid sharing any testing/results on this forums - you obviously don't test yourself but you rely on being convinced by others who did the job for you. I highly prefer having an actual discussion with people who are at least capable of asking the right questions (which is usually the case when doing some testing by yourself).

Rianai wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The #1 plays in a league of its own, its miles ahead of anything else I tested. I'm sure you will find out very easy. It also benefits enormously from woe (which is incremental part of the build I used while testing), so you are on the right track.

Torugs?

My bet is Overwhelming Surge.