How people on my Server are making 1 Million a day from farming Cabinets, Drawers etc.

Iluvrien · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Your "cooldown on recipes" only has one reason to exist, to prevent players from getting too many drops in a certain time period.
It is a MASSIVE FAILURE at that simply because it allows switching characters, by the admission of everyone who supports the idea of a cooldown.
So, the developers failed to make that work and will continue to fail because they never made it check @account versus character name and will continue to let that pass and everybody and their dog make a fool of them. Do you see how unlikely and stupid that sounds?

Because to have a cooldown that checked account and not character would actively work against people who have alts.

The function of a recipe is to be read and learned by a single character.

By making the cooldown global across the account, it would mean that the person playing 8 characters would have exactly the same chance to find a drop in a set amount of time as someone who is playing one character.

The problem being that the person playing one character only has to learn the recipe once and then they have access to it on "all of their characters". For the same thing to be true for the other person, they need to find the same recipe 8 times.

If the cooldown exists, then why discriminate against those who play alts as well?

1) You only need one crafter to have access to everything on all characters now, especially with the outfit system allowing motifs to be used with only one character knowing it and without actually crafting the gear.
Those with one character or alts are the same then so the supposed cooldown doesn't hurt anyone.

Furniture recipes are not available on all characters. Nor are food/drink recipes.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

2) The supposed cooldown is meant to limit supply. Why? It is to limit amount of them for sale because they know people only need one copy of anything and will sell the rest. Some people even sell the first copy they get or all copies and don't use any of them until it isn't worth selling anymore due to market flooding reduced sale prices.

Speculation based on facts not in evidence. What ZOS know, or even how many people use the "one crafter" approach is unknown. Although the continuous complaint threads we used to see about motifs not being account-wide rather than character based would seem to suggest that some people did end up learning motifs/furnishing plans/recipes on more than one character. And resented it.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

So given the above, why would they implement a cooldown to limit supply only to allow people to easily switch characters to bypass the cooldown to get more supply than they intended?
They want us to avoid the system that they want to be in our way?

That's like a road being blocked off just so we can run through the barricade and destroy whatever they are trying to protect or hurt ourselves if it is meant to protect us.

Neither of the "above" have been logically established. Thus the conclusion you suggest cannot be justified.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members

Because reading's hard.

You typed a confusing stupid fallacy statement. It's your fault.
I read it as a lot of other people would have. Welcome to the confusion caused by not being clear enough.

That's *** hilarious. It's my fault because I wasn't clear enough, by specifying the very stipulation I was pretty sure you'd otherwise run with? Okay.

Edit:
You still haven't answered my question. Do you think the developers are dumb or smart?
Do you think them too dumb to code it to check @username or smart enough to have made this cooldown and have it work perfectly without being able to bypass it by switching characters?

I think a per character cooldown along with drop rate % is sufficient to limit the result.

It gives a chance of said item, rewarding additional alts (as it should), but still limiting the maximum yield due to character slot limitations.

You're assuming that was their intent, but then they could accomplish the same thing with an account cooldown rather than character cooldown just with a comparably different duration, which could then not be bypassed so easily.

You're still assuming they implemented a cooldown to limit supply yet left an obvious exploit in place to completely bypass that supply limiting cooldown entirely.
Why would they do that?

Would they be that dumb to intend a limit, want/need a limit, and still leave us such an easy and obvious way around that limit?
Or, would they be that dumb as to actually have this exploit unnoticed and not fixed for such a long time?

I still don't think a cooldown exists due to all the only anecdotal evidence any of you are providing without hard facts from a large enough sample size, meaning more than yourself and anybody else's not logged data and just "it felt better" reasoning.

I am just arguing that a cooldown is so very unlikely to exist because it has such an obvious workaround, that you all say, that it would be completely shameful of the developers to be that dumb as to let that one pass without getting fixed in a hurry.

I trust the developers to be a little smarter than that. If they wanted a cooldown to limit supply, as you believe, then they could make it truly limit supply and not allow character switching to bypass it. They can't be that obviously dumb as any 5-year-old child would point that out and laugh.

Cryptical · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Your "cooldown on recipes" only has one reason to exist, to prevent players from getting too many drops in a certain time period.
It is a MASSIVE FAILURE at that simply because it allows switching characters, by the admission of everyone who supports the idea of a cooldown.
So, the developers failed to make that work and will continue to fail because they never made it check @account versus character name and will continue to let that pass and everybody and their dog make a fool of them. Do you see how unlikely and stupid that sounds?

Because to have a cooldown that checked account and not character would actively work against people who have alts.

The function of a recipe is to be read and learned by a single character.

By making the cooldown global across the account, it would mean that the person playing 8 characters would have exactly the same chance to find a drop in a set amount of time as someone who is playing one character.

The problem being that the person playing one character only has to learn the recipe once and then they have access to it on "all of their characters". For the same thing to be true for the other person, they need to find the same recipe 8 times.

If the cooldown exists, then why discriminate against those who play alts as well?

1) You only need one crafter to have access to everything on all characters now, especially with the outfit system allowing motifs to be used with only one character knowing it and without actually crafting the gear.
Those with one character or alts are the same then so the supposed cooldown doesn't hurt anyone.

2) The supposed cooldown is meant to limit supply. Why? It is to limit amount of them for sale because they know people only need one copy of anything and will sell the rest. Some people even sell the first copy they get or all copies and don't use any of them until it isn't worth selling anymore due to market flooding reduced sale prices.

So given the above, why would they implement a cooldown to limit supply only to allow people to easily switch characters to bypass the cooldown to get more supply than they intended?
They want us to avoid the system that they want to be in our way?

That's like a road being blocked off just so we can run through the barricade and destroy whatever they are trying to protect or hurt ourselves if it is meant to protect us.

Point 1 is bull. Only my crafter can make mythic aetherial ambrosia. Only my crafter has 9 traits researched and can craft that gear. And it just occurred to me that only my crafter can manufacture culanda lacquer, by crafting with a mimic stone then decon the item.

Point 1 is bull.

And that makes point 2 bull as well, because you mistakenly presume that people only need 1 copy of anything.

So, whole post is bull.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

FYI in coding, 0 is a possible number generated by the RNG.
The way they would code this is "if X = 1-100 then Y, else X = 0 then Z". Its still RNG to save time and lines of code and keep it simple.

Let's simplify with a coin flip:
One in two chances it comes up 'tails.'

One in two chances it comes up 'heads.'

Zero chances in 2 that it turns into a ham sandwich.

Here's a different one: One lane is closed on your way work:
There's a 253% chance you'll get diverted to the right lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll get diverted to the left lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to stop and wait until it's cleared.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to turn around and go another way.

There's a zero percent chance your car will sprout wings and flap its way to your destination.

If it's on cooldown, there doesn't even need to be and RNG check for that tier item.

Are the developers dumb enough to put in a cooldown we can easily bypass by switching characters?

Are the developers smart enough to not leave an obvious easy bypass to said cooldown and thus either are going to close that loophole or never made a cooldown so that's why switching characters works?

If they implemented a cooldown that they want to work, why leave a bypass exploit open?

Answer that if you can without questioning whether a cooldown exists or really doesn't exist.

It’s not an exploit. Scroll up. There’s reasons for it to be character based.

Character based is intentional!

"They want us to use alts so they made it character based because our alts can learn/use the recipes."
"Oh yeah? I sell all the ones I get on my alts. It just adds money in my pocket."

Look, there is no reason for a cooldown if they want to support playing alt characters. You can just pass the recipes to your alt from your one main then, as a lot of people already do. The ones without alts also sell the recipes to people who have bad luck and/or need the recipes for alts as well.
No matter what, it takes the same amount of time to farm a recipe up due to RNG whether you use one character or 15 because you can't physically play them all at the same time.

There is no reason for a "per character cooldown".
It is either an exploit or a lie that doesn't exist because people have created a superstition around how often they see drops because people believe in patterns more than random chance.

The heart of the matter is whether or not you believe "stuff happens" or "everything happens for a reason". You believe bad things happen to good people either because "random coincidence" or "there is a reason for everything, a master plan".
Whoever started the cooldown rumor apparently hit on just the right way to turn a bunch of people into their cult followers believing "every drop is part of a master plan, no random chance, no RNG".

I'm done with this, at least for now.
There is no cooldown, especially since it is so easy to bypass. You're all just deluded into believing in a superstition that has ended up making you work harder than you need to.

Iluvrien · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm done with this, at least for now.
There is no cooldown, especially since it is so easy to bypass. You're all just deluded into believing in a superstition that has ended up making you work harder than you need to.

Let's apply your, seemingly, favoured methodology to this: Occam's Razor.

Which is the simplest explanation?

1) Either all of the people arguing against you in this thread have been led astry, through verbal slight-of-hand, confirmation bias, or downright ignorance or...

2) Your conclusion is incorrect.

redspecter23 · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members

Because reading's hard.

You typed a confusing stupid fallacy statement. It's your fault.
I read it as a lot of other people would have. Welcome to the confusion caused by not being clear enough.

That's *** hilarious. It's my fault because I wasn't clear enough, by specifying the very stipulation I was pretty sure you'd otherwise run with? Okay.

Edit:
You still haven't answered my question. Do you think the developers are dumb or smart?
Do you think them too dumb to code it to check @username or smart enough to have made this cooldown and have it work perfectly without being able to bypass it by switching characters?

I think a per character cooldown along with drop rate % is sufficient to limit the result.

It gives a chance of said item, rewarding additional alts (as it should), but still limiting the maximum yield due to character slot limitations.

You're assuming that was their intent, but then they could accomplish the same thing with an account cooldown rather than character cooldown just with a comparably different duration, which could then not be bypassed so easily.

You're still assuming they implemented a cooldown to limit supply yet left an obvious exploit in place to completely bypass that supply limiting cooldown entirely.
Why would they do that?

Would they be that dumb to intend a limit, want/need a limit, and still leave us such an easy and obvious way around that limit?
Or, would they be that dumb as to actually have this exploit unnoticed and not fixed for such a long time?

I still don't think a cooldown exists due to all the only anecdotal evidence any of you are providing without hard facts from a large enough sample size, meaning more than yourself and anybody else's not logged data and just "it felt better" reasoning.

I am just arguing that a cooldown is so very unlikely to exist because it has such an obvious workaround, that you all say, that it would be completely shameful of the developers to be that dumb as to let that one pass without getting fixed in a hurry.

I trust the developers to be a little smarter than that. If they wanted a cooldown to limit supply, as you believe, then they could make it truly limit supply and not allow character switching to bypass it. They can't be that obviously dumb as any 5-year-old child would point that out and laugh.

A cooldown exists. It's very simple to test. Your belief in it or lack thereof does not change it.

Test steps

Log a toon into Traitor's Vault.
Loot containers until you find a green furnishing recipe.
It will typically take less than 10 containers, sometimes more.
Note how many containers it takes to loot a green furnishing recipe.
Swap toons and repeat this process as many times as you wish for a large enough sample size.

You will note the average number of wardrobes required to find a green furnishing recipe to be around 10. Let's say 10 for simplicity. That puts the drop rate at about 10%. Now that you've established your own drop rate, attempt to repeat this process, but on only one toon. You'll need to perform this step in order to see the cooldown in action.

Log a toon into Traitor's Vault.
Loot containers until you find a green furnishing recipe.
It will typically take less than 10 containers, sometimes more.
Note how many containers it takes to loot a green furnishing recipe.
Continue looting wardrobes in Traitor's Vault until the loop is complete.
Log out and back into that toon in order to reset the instance.
... wait, that didn't work, but you said it would work 100% of the time. That's odd.
You'll have the wardrobes in that instance of Traitor's Vault to work with. It's about 50 of them.
Did you pull 2 green furnishing recipes at all?

With the found drop rate of about 10% in step 1, then repeating the second set of steps on a single toon should, from time to time, award 2 or more green furnishing recipes, but you will find that to not be the case. With 50 containers and a 10% drop rate, you will not find that second green furnishing recipe until your cooldown has passed on that toon.

You can test some more.
Log a toon into Traitor's Vault.
Loot containers until you find a green furnishing recipe.
Note how many containers it takes to loot a green furnishing recipe, then stop and wait 5 minutes.
Continue looting the wardrobes after this time has passed and note when you find another green furnishing recipe.
Repeat as often as needed in order for a reasonable sample size.

That is a fairly scientific way to prove that cooldowns exist. No "feelings" or "they can't do that, it's doesn't make sense". You can see it happening, with your own eyes.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

The reason it's not per account, is because to maintain the same drop chance as it is now for people with multiple alts (thus multiple chances, even with cooldown), is that they'd have to drastically lower the drop chance percentage.

So, if they based this on someone with say, 10 character slots, the drop chance would be effectively the same for that one item.

The problem is, you'd apply that same drop change percentage to someone with only one character slot, then that person's drop rate suddenly went from say, 1 out of 10 on a single character, to 1 out of 95 on that single character.

The goal of the company is to get money.
The goal of the game it to help the company get money.
This is done in combination by players and investors.
The best way for the game to get money from players and from investors is to get players to play the game. (Why do you think they're always keen on announcing "10 million player accounts, X million players logged in," etc? If makes investors warm and fuzzy and draws attention to the product.

You want people to pursue things. You want income to happen as a result of people wanting to pursue things, whether that's a Crown store XP scroll or a banner ad.

If rates are too high, people acquire what they need quickly and get bored. If they're too low, people play less, or stop entirely (they lose interest).

The happy medium is what they strive for, rewarding players for having multiple alts, thus playing the game, and hopefully buying product (Crown store, DLC, subs, streaming, whatever...)

I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Also, the alt limit, along with the drop chance also encourages people to buy alt accounts...which, you guessed it, makes teh company money.

LadyLethalla · June 2018

Got two blue Summerset furnishing recipes tonight on the same toon, though with a significant gap between attempts. In other RNG news I got 3 Chromium from refining 50 silver and another 3 shortly after - I was trying to get Zircon grains. Now if only it would drop the dungeon set staff I need... and the rings in purple.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The goal of the company is to get money.
The goal of the game it to help the company get money.
This is done in combination by players and investors.
The best way for the game to get money from players and from investors is to get players to play the game. (Why do you think they're always keen on announcing "10 million player accounts, X million players logged in," etc? If makes investors warm and fuzzy and draws attention to the product.

You want people to pursue things. You want income to happen as a result of people wanting to pursue things, whether that's a Crown store XP scroll or a banner ad.[/i]

I fully agree with you here.

So, why would they let us reduce our interaction in the game, reduce our time played, by switching to another character that could be level 1 to farm recipes bypassing a supposed cooldown intended to increase our play time and interaction with the game if we tried to do it on just one character?

My whole point is that a "per character cooldown" rather than "per account cooldown" is either a complete mistake on the developer part that somehow has gone uncorrected or doesn't exist because it is unbelievable that such an intended feature would be such a mistake in how it was implemented.

They want more money from us spending more time?
This doesn't help when we can switch characters to speed it up.

Cryptical · June 2018

I’m getting the feeling that Mystrius is going to resist out of sheer obstinance. They’ve dug in so hard that holding to their position is now all they know.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Also, the alt limit, along with the drop chance also encourages people to buy alt accounts...which, you guessed it, makes teh company money.

Now that would make sense, but they aren't encouraged to buy alt accounts unless it is a limit "per account cooldown".
Everyone who insists on the cooldown says it is "per character".

That doesn't make them more money if it is "per character" so you don't need another account.

Also, another account is cheap, relatively. I can find the whole game bundle on sale for $20 often enough. Nobody would be spending any more than that on an alternate account really either. They would only be using it for farming after all and not their main.

Therefore, this still defeats the purpose that anybody can think of for a cooldown.
It either is implemented wrong or just doesn't work for the intended purpose.

And that is all beside the point that my own experiences show evidence against a cooldown and there is no factual developer confirmed evidence of a cooldown on recipes.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The goal of the company is to get money.
The goal of the game it to help the company get money.
This is done in combination by players and investors.
The best way for the game to get money from players and from investors is to get players to play the game. (Why do you think they're always keen on announcing "10 million player accounts, X million players logged in," etc? If makes investors warm and fuzzy and draws attention to the product.

You want people to pursue things. You want income to happen as a result of people wanting to pursue things, whether that's a Crown store XP scroll or a banner ad.[/i]

I fully agree with you here.

So, why would they let us reduce our interaction in the game, reduce our time played, by switching to another character that could be level 1 to farm recipes bypassing a supposed cooldown intended to increase our play time and interaction with the game if we tried to do it on just one character?

My whole point is that a "per character cooldown" rather than "per account cooldown" is either a complete mistake on the developer part that somehow has gone uncorrected or doesn't exist because it is unbelievable that such an intended feature would be such a mistake in how it was implemented.

They want more money from us spending more time?
This doesn't help when we can switch characters to speed it up.

Are you aware there is a daily deletion limit in place, still effectively limiting the number of characters you're ever going to have in a given day on a single account, still effectively limiting the total quantity of said items you could ever receive on one account?

Are you aware that you still have to have a successful outcome on the loot spawn, which will also generally take time, even on that freshly deleted, newly created level 1 character.

I won't even get into the fact that you're not going to have immediate access to some areas on a newly created character.

In either case, if you're playing a character, you're still playing the game.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Also, the alt limit, along with the drop chance also encourages people to buy alt accounts...which, you guessed it, makes teh company money.

Now that would make sense, but they aren't encouraged to buy alt accounts unless it is a limit "per account cooldown".
Everyone who insists on the cooldown says it is "per character".

That doesn't make them more money if it is "per character" so you don't need another account.

Dude, it is a per account limit.

It's just that that limit happens to be 15.

Anotherone773 · June 2018

I think purple motifs/ recipes/prints have both a cooldown and are chance based. I think when you get one you get a penalty to chance of getting another one but it doesnt completely erase your chance. So the more you get in X time the luckier you have to get. The time seems to be about 24 hours.

Ive gotten 2 motifs picking in vvardenfell within 4 mobs and then ive gotten 1 and picked another 50 or so npcs and got nothing. When farming bosses for motifs, the same seems to apply. If i farm a boss once per day i can usually get a motif within 3-4 times though sometimes it takes a half dozen but that is rare. If i farm a boss constantly after the first one drops, it may take hours of killing every 5 minutes to get another one.

The same seems to hold true for more rare recipes.

ZOS_JesC · June 2018

Greetings, due to the baiting and personal insults, we have removed several comments and decided to close this thread. Thank you for your understanding.